Destroyed...Or Is It?

[+JL_HSTRE]

I found a benchmark yesterday. I looked it up on geocaching.com and the found a match with the adjusted coordinates and stamping: AC0532 The copy here has several recovery notes between 1934 and 1992.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=AC0532

 

But when I look it up in the NGS database it says the mark is unpublished???

 

http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_mark.prl?PidBox=AC0532

 

Any idea what's going on here?

[+Harry Dolphin]

If you include 'include destroyed' in your search, you will find that it was listed as destroyed in 2001 by FLDT

AC0532'RECOVERY NOTE BY FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION 2001 (RHH)

AC0532'MONUMENT FOUND WITH A METAL BAND SURROUNDING THE CONCRETE POST AND

AC0532'VERY UNSTABLE. THIS MONUMENT WAS REMOVED AND A NEW SURVEY MARKER

AC0532'WILL BE PLACED CLOSE BY, IN THE NEAR FUTURE. GPS OBSERVATIONS AT

AC0532'THIS CONTROL MARK ARE HIGHLY SUSPECT AS THE MONUMENT WAS BROKEN

AC0532'AND REPLACED IN HOLE IN THE MID 1970. LEVEL OBSERVATIONS AFTER

AC0532'1970 ARE ALSO

AC0532'SUSPECT.

I certainly does not look as though it has been removed. (Though you did not post a photo!!!!) Perhaps it was marked 'destroyed' due to the instability issue?

You could contact NGS with your info.

FLDT did also post a 'found' after the 'mark destroyed'.

[+JL_HSTRE]

Photos added to my BM log now. The metal band is still there around the concrete, but there were no other benchmarks close by.

 

Odd that it is possible to search for destroyed marks, but the direct link to the datasheet doesn't work.

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

Photos added to my BM log now. The metal band is still there around the concrete, but there were no other benchmarks close by.

 

Odd that it is possible to search for destroyed marks, but the direct link to the datasheet doesn't work.

 

Judging by your picture, you did Not find AC0532. WYE A is supposed to be stamped 1934 and the one in your picture is stamped 1954.

 

Not sure which one you found but WYE A was monumented in 1934. It is possible that you found AC0533.

 

John

[+LSUFan]

Photos added to my BM log now. The metal band is still there around the concrete, but there were no other benchmarks close by.

 

Odd that it is possible to search for destroyed marks, but the direct link to the datasheet doesn't work.

 

Judging by your picture, you did Not find AC0532. WYE A is supposed to be stamped 1934 and the one in your picture is stamped 1954.

 

Not sure which one you found but WYE A was monumented in 1934. It is possible that you found AC0533.

 

John

 

Houston, we have a problem...........or really a mystery (our favorite kind in the forums).

 

I agree with John, in the assumption you didn't find AC0532. It should be stamped 1934, which the geocaching logs before yours do show a pic of WYE-A 1934............where your pic shows WYE-A 1954.

 

 

 

However, AC0533 WYE Reset 1934/1971 is supposed to be 131.691 meters away from AC0532 and the stamping doesn't match it either, according to the 1971 recovery reports from the NGS.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/mark/datasheet.aspx?PID=AC0533

 

It also appears we have an incorrect geocache log for AC0533 from Paradise in 2004. The pic that was posted, although unclear, shows an arrow on it, which means it was a reference mark or azimuth mark disk.......and not the triangulation station itself.

 

I'm wondering how many WYE tri-stations are there in this area?

 

I will do some further studying, and am curious to see what others come up with too.

[+LSUFan]

 

Odd that it is possible to search for destroyed marks, but the direct link to the datasheet doesn't work.

 

Not really odd at all. You can think of the NGS databases as filing cabinets. You have one database/filing cabinet full of active (published) marks. You would go to this one to see the datasheets for benchmarks that are supposed to be active in the field.

 

Now, once a mark gets reported as destroyed (sometimes incorrectly), it's datasheet is removed from the active filing cabinet...and placed in the inactive (unpublished)filing cabinet.

 

When you say "direct" link, you are only referring to the published marks (or active filing cabinet).

 

You can do a search for datasheets on the NGS site, and tell their computers that you want to search both the published and unpublished files for marks.

 

You also need to always remember that everything you see on gc.com from the NGS, was what was in the NGS published database/filing cabinet from the year 2000. Anything that has changed at the NGS (ie marks getting moved to the unpublished files, new marks added to the published files, etc) since the year 2000 will not be reflected on information you are reading on gc.com.

Edited February 12, 2013 by LSUFan

[kayakbird]

Maybe a photo-shopping clerical error also - Both Paradise & Joshism seem to have posted a photo of the same Witness Post.

 

Joshism WP

 

Paradise WP

 

I agree with LSUFan about the added fun in these mystery marks - sometimes you have to 'read between the lines' of non-existent documentation. kayakbird

[+Holtie22]

This does seem to be an interesting situation. To help illustrate, I have overlaid an image from ScaredyCat's benchmark viewer with information from the box score for WYE-Reset (AC0533).

 

 

You can actually see the marks for WYE-A and RM-3 in the photo. (You can also see them, along with their witness posts, on Google street view.)According to the datasheet description, WYE-Reset is recessed below ground level. WYE-A should not have been listed as destroyed, since its datasheet describes the existence of an underground mark. The change in date, from 1934 to 1954 in the GC photos remains a mystery!

 

After re-examining the photos of WYE-A, I believe they are the same disk. The difference in lighting is making the 3 look like a 5. Mystery solved?

Edited February 12, 2013 by Holtie22

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

This does seem to be an interesting situation. To help illustrate, I have overlaid an image from ScaredyCat's benchmark viewer with information from the box score for WYE-Reset (AC0533).

 

 

You can actually see the marks for WYE-A and RM-3 in the photo. (You can also see them, along with their witness posts, on Google street view.)According to the datasheet description, WYE-Reset is recessed below ground level. WYE-A should not have been listed as destroyed, since its datasheet describes the existence of an underground mark. The change in date, from 1934 to 1954 in the GC photos remains a mystery!

 

After re-examining the photos of WYE-A, I believe they are the same disk. The difference in lighting is making the 3 look like a 5. Mystery solved?

Well, we downloaded Joshism's photo and turned it and then used photoshop to enhance it a little. What a little cornstarch would have done in real life for us, a little enhancement does now.......

 

 

Notice the "5" now looks like the old fashioned "3" that was used in that day and age. So, that mystery is now solved......

 

Thanks Holtie.

 

Shirley~

[kayakbird]

Finally pulled up the GeoCache Data Sheet. Maybe somebody looked at the 1970 recovery

 

AC0532 STATION RECOVERY (1970)

AC0532

AC0532''RECOVERY NOTE BY LOCAL ENGINEER (INDIVIDUAL OR FIRM) 1970

AC0532''WYE A 1934 EXCELLENT EXCEPT SEE BELOW.

AC0532''

AC0532''MARKER WAS HIT AND BROKEN OFF ABOUT 12 IN UNDERGROUND. THE

AC0532''AUTOMOBILE THAT HIT IT ROLLED THE MARKER ABOUT FIVE FEET. PERSONS

AC0532''AT THE SCENE OF THE ACCIDENT ROLLED THE MARKER BACK INTO ITS

AC0532''HOLE, SO THAT IT IS OK TO OUTWARD APPEARANCES BUT REALLY IS NOT

AC0532''EXACT.

 

and decided that it was no good. MEL

[+Holtie22]

Finally pulled up the GeoCache Data Sheet. Maybe somebody looked at the 1970 recovery

 

AC0532 STATION RECOVERY (1970)

AC0532

AC0532''RECOVERY NOTE BY LOCAL ENGINEER (INDIVIDUAL OR FIRM) 1970

AC0532''WYE A 1934 EXCELLENT EXCEPT SEE BELOW.

AC0532''

AC0532''MARKER WAS HIT AND BROKEN OFF ABOUT 12 IN UNDERGROUND. THE

AC0532''AUTOMOBILE THAT HIT IT ROLLED THE MARKER ABOUT FIVE FEET. PERSONS

AC0532''AT THE SCENE OF THE ACCIDENT ROLLED THE MARKER BACK INTO ITS

AC0532''HOLE, SO THAT IT IS OK TO OUTWARD APPEARANCES BUT REALLY IS NOT

AC0532''EXACT.

 

and decided that it was no good. MEL

No doubt that's what happened, however, as long as the underground mark still exists undisturbed, the station is NOT destroyed.

[+LSUFan]

This does seem to be an interesting situation. To help illustrate, I have overlaid an image from ScaredyCat's benchmark viewer with information from the box score for WYE-Reset (AC0533).

 

 

You can actually see the marks for WYE-A and RM-3 in the photo. (You can also see them, along with their witness posts, on Google street view.)According to the datasheet description, WYE-Reset is recessed below ground level. WYE-A should not have been listed as destroyed, since its datasheet describes the existence of an underground mark. The change in date, from 1934 to 1954 in the GC photos remains a mystery!

 

After re-examining the photos of WYE-A, I believe they are the same disk. The difference in lighting is making the 3 look like a 5. Mystery solved?

Well, we downloaded Joshism's photo and turned it and then used photoshop to enhance it a little. What a little cornstarch would have done in real life for us, a little enhancement does now.......

 

 

Notice the "5" now looks like the old fashioned "3" that was used in that day and age. So, that mystery is now solved......

 

Thanks Holtie.

 

Shirley~

 

That is what I like about these forums and the benchmarks sleuths we have here. It's going to get figured out. Great job, everyone.

Edited February 13, 2013 by LSUFan

[+DragonsWest]

Found this one a few days ago. (F 559 1957)

 

The station I found was slightly tilted. When I returned home I noticed another logger has a F 559 RESET 1979 photo, which must have been nearby. The odd bit is there's no RESET in any of the lists I have and there's no comment the station was reset.

[+Ernmark]

Found this one a few days ago. (F 559 1957)

 

The station I found was slightly tilted. When I returned home I noticed another logger has a F 559 RESET 1979 photo, which must have been nearby. The odd bit is there's no RESET in any of the lists I have and there's no comment the station was reset.

 

..think it might be H 559 RESET in the pic?

 

AA4342 STATION DESCRIPTION

AA4342

AA4342'DESCRIBED BY CALTRANS 1979 (CML)

AA4342'0.8 MILE (1.3 KM) EAST ALONG STATE HIGHWAY 58 FROM THE CALIFORNIA

AA4342'DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION MAINTENANCE STATION IN SIMMLER, 0.25 MILE

AA4342'(0.40 KM) EAST OF A RANCH HOUSE, 40 1/2 FEET NORTH OF THE CENTERLINE

AA4342'OF THE HIGHWAY, 0.5 FOOT (15.2 CM) SOUTH OF A FENCE, 1.0 FOOT (0.3 M)

AA4342'SOUTH OF A WITNESS POST, 0.9 FOOT (27.4 CM) HIGHER THAN THE HIGHWAY,

AA4342'AND SET IN THE TOP OF A CONCRETE POST PROJECTING 0.5 FOOT (15.2 CM)

AA4342'ABOVE THE GROUND.

[+billwallace]

Found this one a few days ago. (F 559 1957)

 

Did you take a gander at Wallace Creek while you were down this way?

 

If you'ld like, next time your coming to the central coast, send me PM and maybe we could hunt a few together. I don't get out much lately but I check the forums often.