Caching etiquette cut'n'paste.

[+lifechooser]

I wonder how I should log this cache which has just been published;

 

Name: "Its not about the numbers"

Description: "Just a mag nano (BYOP) on a new estate.

In a residential area so no night caching and please respect the neigbours

Logging Etiquette: Geocache hiders sometimes go through a great deal of planning to place their caches. As a result, they'd like to hear your feedback on whether you liked or disliked any aspect of the hide, the journey or location, or if you feel that some cache maintenance is required. Single word, acronym, or "copy and paste" logs may be easier when you have a lot of caches to log, but it doesn't tell the hider or other finders anything about your adventure (or lack thereof) in finding the cache. Please keep this in mind when entering your log."

 

I'm not planning on doing this cache, but if I did I would certainly log it as "TFTC".

 

I always find that the effort which goes into logs matches the effort which goes into the cache. I own a sidetracked cache which invariably gets "TFTC" and one at an unknown historical place which gets far longer logs along the lines of "Thanks for bringing me to this lovely place which I wouldn't have known about". I watch some other caches which are evil, and they get epic reports without having to ask for them.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[+thehoomer]

I wonder how I should log this cache which has just been published;

 

Name: "Its not about the numbers"

Description: "Just a mag nano (BYOP) on a new estate.

In a residential area so no night caching and please respect the neigbours

Logging Etiquette: Geocache hiders sometimes go through a great deal of planning to place their caches. As a result, they'd like to hear your feedback on whether you liked or disliked any aspect of the hide, the journey or location, or if you feel that some cache maintenance is required. Single word, acronym, or "copy and paste" logs may be easier when you have a lot of caches to log, but it doesn't tell the hider or other finders anything about your adventure (or lack thereof) in finding the cache. Please keep this in mind when entering your log."

 

I'm not planning on doing this cache, but if I did I would certainly log it as "TFTC".

 

I always find that the effort which goes into logs matches the effort which goes into the cache. I own a sidetracked cache which invariably gets "TFTC" and one at an unknown historical place which gets far longer logs along the lines of "Thanks for bringing me to this lovely place which I wouldn't have known about". I watch some other caches which are evil, and they get epic reports without having to ask for them.

 

Just my 2 cents.

I'm a tad confused because line 1 ponders, 'I wonder how I should log this cache which has just been published'.

Para 3 then goes on to conclude, 'I'm not planning on doing this cache, but if I did I would certainly log it as "TFTC".' I think you may have already answered your own question.

 

Personally, I never log 'TFTC' because I feel that all caches deserve at least 1 non-abbreviated sentence.

If the cache is a good one for whatever reason, it will be reflected in my log and always consists of much more, I imagine most cachers would be the same.

As has been thrashed out many times before, logging is a very personal thing and there is no right or wrong way.......Apart from mine

[+The Blorenges]

OK...

 

So, out of curiosity, I went and had a look at the cache listing.

 

Then I looked at location on Streetview. I looked all around on Streetview.

 

*Sigh*

 

Let's just say that we wouldn't have the problem of deciding how to log this cache.

 

MrsB

[+dprovan]

I'm not planning on doing this cache, but if I did I would certainly log it as "TFTC".

I assume you mean you expect you'd do a simple log because you're predicting that there will not be anything to say about it. That would be OK with me. I certainly hope you don't mean you'd log it as "TFTC" just to spite the CO's request even if you discovered it was more interesting than the description implied.

 

Personally, if it turned out to be as boring as it seems, I'd probably make some comments about that because of the CO has specifically requested that I report my experience. But I have a hard time writing short logs.

[+6NoisyHikers]

We never just log "TFTC". If we truly felt that way about a cache, we wouldn't log it at all.

[+6NoisyHikers]

But for the record, I don't have a problem with someone encouraging good logging on their cache page (whatever the quality of the cache).

[+redsox_mark]

I've seen that text about logging on a number of caches. I don't have an issue with it; even on a cache which shall we say doesn't seem overly special.

 

I always write something specific. I'm not going to wax lyrical about a nano in a housing estate, but I may comment on the muggles (or lack of), if I felt comfortable looking there, or even what I thought of the estate.

[BOBBLES WORLD TOUR]

When caching with my Oregon, which allows you to see the last 5 logs, my beef isn't with TFTC logs.

It's with cut n paste essays. Keep your essay about the series to just one cache. First or Last is the norm.

That way I don't have to trawl through the same blurb to gain any helpful info.

[+Delta68]

When caching with my Oregon, which allows you to see the last 5 logs, my beef isn't with TFTC logs.

It's with cut n paste essays. Keep your essay about the series to just one cache. First or Last is the norm.

That way I don't have to trawl through the same blurb to gain any helpful info.

 

Agree 100% with this!

If you've got nothing to say, don't say anything. Cut & Pasted essays are the WORST type of log. Far worse than a 'TFTC'!

 

Personally, I wouldn't even log TFTC if the overall experience was negative.

 

Mark

[+fbingha]

When caching with my Oregon, which allows you to see the last 5 logs, my beef isn't with TFTC logs.

It's with cut n paste essays. Keep your essay about the series to just one cache. First or Last is the norm.

That way I don't have to trawl through the same blurb to gain any helpful info.

 

Agreed, those canned essays are the worst, more annoying that TFTC.

 

"We are the <insert synonym for super> caching team. We had a goal to find <insert a large number> caches in <insert a lot of hours> hours. We exceeded our goal! We did <insert a lot of boring activities, like .. ran, slept, ate, drank, laughed, cried> and had a blast doing it. Thank you to all the hiders for hiding caches for us to find. We will never forget the experience. Sorry for the cut & paste log but we are tired and can't remember every cache".

[+Oxford Stone]

OK...

 

So, out of curiosity, I went and had a look at the cache listing.

 

Then I looked at location on Streetview. I looked all around on Streetview.

 

*Sigh*

 

Let's just say that we wouldn't have the problem of deciding how to log this cache.

 

MrsB

 

Have to agree that waxing lyrical about this one would be a ***** challenge in itself.

 

However - wandering off subject - in defence of the banal urban nano, they are great for:

 

Winter caching - dry and safe

 

Beginners - getting your eye in

 

Cash and dash - just to get that fix / tick off a county

 

Last and not least - family friendly. On Saturday with OS Junior, did a self-proclaimed family friendly "look around you" series in E Oxford, OSJ loved finding 5 caches in an hour or so especially one which was on the back of a street sign (yawn) but one which included his name.

 

All part of the fantastic fact that GCing can be approached in infinitesimal different ways and enjoyed by all.

 

Back on subject - yes I put TFTC if it's a banal cache and I'm using c:geo on my phone in a hurry. Sometimes go back to a computer later to add something else but TFTC is sometimes code for "meh, boring".

 

Now, when am I next going to be in the Amesbury area???...

[+Amberel]

Logging Etiquette: Geocache hiders sometimes go through a great deal of planning to place their caches ...

It does only say SOMETIMES

 

Rgds, Andy

[+dprovan]

However - wandering off subject - in defence of the banal urban nano, they are great for:

...

In addition to those good reasons, I enjoy being introduced to a new neighborhood -- yes, even dodgy ones -- so I'm typically not concerned with how banal the cache is. To me, the cache is the excuse to walk there, but the area itself is the reason to go.

[+Happy Humphrey]

I find those "logging etiquette" instructions highly irritating and it puts me off caches altogether when I see that. The patronising tone is surely designed to wind people up and invite snarky logs.

 

The only more annoying wording is on Garmin's caching site, where they insist on using the term "awesomeness" all the time. AARGGH!

[+Seaglass Pirates]

I can actually black cat the TFTC logs. Down here beginners and sometimes more prolific cachers log with this ...

 

 

However I know of two cache owners who applied the obliterate option to these logs lol.

 

We always attempt to write a specific log to each cache. Even when we did the Halo series and had to write 79 in one sitting. Most of the time we write longer logs. Most of the time we have people email us to say thank you and often we are approached by people to say that our logs made them laugh. Once we were moaned at because of the length of our logs, not by the CO but by someone who said it made their thumb ache scrolling through our drivel to get to a helpful log which would given them a clue. We rarely leave hints in ours. Very rarely. Our reply was that our logs are for the CO's enjoyment and not really there for hint gathering. Its just the way we do it. Other ways are also fine, but its the way we do it. However we did on one cache put TFTC. It was or maybe still is on a footbridge near St Austel. And it was a manky old chinease takeaway cracked and split full of stinking water wrapped in several manky old bags. It was when we first started. It was full of water and rust and mud. We could think of nothing memorable to write or helpful so we left it at TFTC instead of being rude or blunt. Now we would log a NM or try and be more helpful. But that was deffo an alcohol gel moment.

[+Perditus]

I'm possibly a little old fashioned (mainly because our etrex is a bit - well quite a lot - on the basic side) as I take notes with pen and paper while we are out so that I can remember what happened or who we saw, or anything of note really at each cache. Sometimes there isn't an awful lot of interest to say, and I'm quite sure that most of my waffle only amuses us, but I find 'cut and paste' logs annoying, so I don't leave them.

 

I enjoy reading other people's logs for their stories, not for hints, but I know that I tend to be on the verbose side, and not everyone else has the same affliction, so I wouldn't be offended by the odd TFTC...at least it is a thank you

[+Happy Humphrey]

I'm possibly a little old fashioned (mainly because our etrex is a bit - well quite a lot - on the basic side) as I take notes with pen and paper while we are out so that I can remember what happened or who we saw, or anything of note really at each cache. Sometimes there isn't an awful lot of interest to say, and I'm quite sure that most of my waffle only amuses us, but I find 'cut and paste' logs annoying, so I don't leave them.

 

I enjoy reading other people's logs for their stories, not for hints, but I know that I tend to be on the verbose side, and not everyone else has the same affliction, so I wouldn't be offended by the odd TFTC...at least it is a thank you

I don't bother taking notes, but I always have something unique to say about each cache. If I've found a lot of caches that day I use the cache hints to remind me about each cache. Occasionally I struggle to remember a cache if there's no hint so I put something neutral then, but luckily not many caches are hintless.

 

It's useful to have some cache logs to look through if you're having trouble with a find. I'm not sure how people manage to avoid adding hints to their log; even "Fount it" is a hint, and "easily found" is a BIG hint.

 

That said, I really don't mind a TFTC log. The log belongs to the person who logged the cache so it's up to them what they write, and not up to the cache owner to dictate rules. If I write something verbose it's probably with the CO and other cachers in mind, but generally it's to remind me about a particular cache find as I regard the log text as part of a diary of caching.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Happy Humphrey

[+Oxford Stone]

I'm a c:geo (app on android smartphone) user so will often submit a log while walking back to car / on to next cache. So they're not all that long in these cases. Even then I try to paint a picture in those few words, eg a cache up a tree: "Signed in situ, great view! TFTC" would hopefully make the CO smile AND make people looking at the log who've not been there yet, wonder what they're going to find.

Without offending anyone above - some of the longer entries are a bit self-indulgent - it's a matter of remembering your audience, ie the CO and other cachers (HH - you obviously recognise this - "If I write something verbose it's probably with the CO and other cachers in mind"...)

 

Just remembered my favourite log entry of all time from my Dartmoor letterboxing days - it was something like this:

 

"When we found this box we were so happy we took all our clothes off, danced naked around the tor and conceived our first child in the heather."

 

Obviously not suitable for a magnetic nano on a housing estate in Amesbury...

[+Pharisee]

I'm a c:geo (app on android smartphone) user so will often submit a log while walking back to car / on to next cache. So they're not all that long in these cases. Even then I try to paint a picture in those few words, eg a cache up a tree: "Signed in situ, great view! TFTC" would hopefully make the CO smile AND make people looking at the log who've not been there yet, wonder what they're going to find.

Without offending anyone above - some of the longer entries are a bit self-indulgent - it's a matter of remembering your audience, ie the CO and other cachers (HH - you obviously recognise this - "If I write something verbose it's probably with the CO and other cachers in mind"...)

 

Just remembered my favourite log entry of all time from my Dartmoor letterboxing days - it was something like this:

 

"When we found this box we were so happy we took all our clothes off, danced naked around the tor and conceived our first child in the heather."

 

Obviously not suitable for a magnetic nano on a housing estate in Amesbury...

 

That reminded me of a log I wrote way back in March, 2003 for GCC02B, now long since archived :-

 

"I’d already visited Thaxted earlier in the afternoon whilst doing a different cache and thought then just how nice the place was. It was a warm and sunny late afternoon when I came back to do this one. A very pleasant stroll around the town to gather the required numbers and an equally pleasant pint of IPA (served by a very attractive little barmaid) outside the Swan Hotel while I sat and did the necessary substitution. The walk up the lane was peaceful and tranquil. The bird’s song only being briefly disturbed by the laughter of the four naked girls dancing around the old oak tree in the adjacent field. I found the cache without too much difficulty after remembering my Pythagoras. Took nothing but a photograph (number 13 or 14, I think) and left nothing. Thank you, Yasdnil, for a very pleasant hour or so.

 

PS I was lying about the girls in the field, I just wanted to make an otherwise boring old log entry a bit more interesting."

 

 

[+Just Roger]

I still, occasionally, use "DPM" when logging a realy bad / wet / litter strewn cache which some of the oldies may remember, used to be used in such cases.

 

DPM= des paloures mort or in full;

"Les longs sanglots des palourdes mortes blessent mon coeur avec un languor monotone pendant qu'ils dansent à minuit"

 

or in translation:

The long sobs of the dead clams wound my heart with a monotonous languor as they dance at midnight"

[+Ant89]

Copy and pasted, short and long, makes no difference.

 

What does annoy me though is when vital infomation to the state of the cache is hidden in the middle of an essay type find log. It makes it much easier for owners if finders make sure that any potential problems are noted in the 1st line of the log.

[team tisri]

I find those "logging etiquette" instructions highly irritating and it puts me off caches altogether when I see that. The patronising tone is surely designed to wind people up and invite snarky logs.

 

The only more annoying wording is on Garmin's caching site, where they insist on using the term "awesomeness" all the time. AARGGH!

 

I suppose you get to play them at their own game and describe a cache as "awesomely lacking in awesomeness" or some such.

[+Bear and Ragged]

... It makes it much easier for owners if finders make sure that any potential problems are noted in the 1st line of the log.

 

If the condition of the cache is that bad that it needs to be the first line of your log... It should really have a log of it's own, ie a Needs Maintenance log!

 

If the log is slightly damp, or getting full but still has space, a quick mention at the end of my log should alert the CO to possible issues that don't -at the moment- require them to rush out immediately to fix them.

[+Original A1]

Well I tend to be on the verbose side, but usually on the more interesting caches. I don't think I've ever only written TFTC, and never duplicated a log and the reason for that is that I like to look back at my old logs every now and again. Some of the less exciting caches can be very difficult for me to remember, so usually my log will jog my memory. I put little aides memoires in my Oregon as I go along, otherwise I'd never remember things.

 

The fact that a number of other cachers have been kind enough to say how much they enjoy my logs is reward enough; I suppose if you're the type who doesn't like lengthy logs, it's easy enough to scroll on down - the avatar is very helpful for this.

 

(And there I was about to put "TFTC"!)

[+Ant89]

... It makes it much easier for owners if finders make sure that any potential problems are noted in the 1st line of the log.

 

If the condition of the cache is that bad that it needs to be the first line of your log... It should really have a log of it's own, ie a Needs Maintenance log!

 

If the log is slightly damp, or getting full but still has space, a quick mention at the end of my log should alert the CO to possible issues that don't -at the moment- require them to rush out immediately to fix them.

 

Putting minor maintainace details at the end of your found log is all well and good, as long as you are absolutly positive that the owner reads through the logs. making a note of any potential problems at the top of the log means it is far less likely to be overlooked.

 

To expand on it, so far in the 2 weeks we have had of 2013 I have received 1,090 found logs, 26 DNF logs, 23 write note, and 3 NM. because of these numbers having a note of any potential problems at the beginning of a find log makes it easier to sort out at the next opertunity rather than waiting for the Neends Maintainance logs to start appearing, which will no doubt happen at a time when you cannot get to a cache for a few weeks!

[+dprovan]

Putting minor maintainace details at the end of your found log is all well and good, as long as you are absolutly positive that the owner reads through the logs.

So by that logic, if I'm not absolutely positive that the owner reads through the logs, I should just log "TFTC", right?

 

To expand on it, so far in the 2 weeks we have had of 2013 I have received 1,090 found logs, 26 DNF logs, 23 write note, and 3 NM. because of these numbers having a note of any potential problems at the beginning of a find log makes it easier to sort out at the next opertunity rather than waiting for the Neends Maintainance logs to start appearing, which will no doubt happen at a time when you cannot get to a cache for a few weeks!

I'd appreciate if you'd state clearly in your description "I don't read the Found logs, so don't waste time writing good ones." In the absense of specific instructions, I'm going to assume that my experience is more important to you than your minor maintenance issues.

[+Original A1]

Ah, but it's not just about the CO's pleasure. Others visiting the pages use the logs to assess whether they want to go for that particular cache.

[+dprovan]

Ah, but it's not just about the CO's pleasure. Others visiting the pages use the logs to assess whether they want to go for that particular cache.

It's his cache, and he thinks minor maintenance issues are more important than anything else, including information other people might find important.

 

Yes, of course, I'm not really going to listen to him, I'm just examining the logic of the "minor maintenance first" logic.

[+Ant89]

prehaps I need to re word everything again.

 

On my stand alone caches I read the find logs in full, it's only on my trails that I don't because 90% of the time every log is identical and you can tell it is after the 1st 3-4 logs.

 

However, this discussion is about copy and paste logs, which are very common on a cache trail. Considering I have a trail of 80 caches that is a lot of logs to read, and when most of them say exactly the same thing, it can be VERY easy to overlook the words "log full" or "log damp" especially in an essay type log, and there are cachers locally who have a copy and pasted essay log for every cache they find! It is on this series, and ONLY on this series that I REQUEST that people put minor maintainance issues at the top, That way I am more likely to see any problems early on and sort them out before they become serious and detract from the enjoyment of the cache and the series as a whole.

 

Now, as It seems that I am just rewording everything multiple times I will not be replying to this thread again, so will finish with the following.

 

I like hiding caches, more so than finding them. I like it when people go and find my caches. But when it comes to logging, I don't mind if the log only says "TFTC" or is a essay taking up 2 or more logs to write what they want to say about their experience. The important thing is that someone has taken the time to visit.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Ant89

[team tisri]

Putting minor maintainace details at the end of your found log is all well and good, as long as you are absolutly positive that the owner reads through the logs.

So by that logic, if I'm not absolutely positive that the owner reads through the logs, I should just log "TFTC", right?

 

Not sure how you got that. If there's something of specific importance to say it makes sense to say it where it's clear and less likely to be overlooked, no?

 

If someone receives a Found log that consists of several long paragraphs detailing the journey to the cache, the hunt, the weather, the places searched before finding the cache, the joy at the find, and the journey home that's great. Someone can skim the entire log and potentially miss the comment that "the log is a little damp" buried somewhere in a sentence about looking through the leaves and hoping the first few drops of rain didn't get any harder. If it's put clearly in the log then it's less likely to be overlooked.

 

To expand on it, so far in the 2 weeks we have had of 2013 I have received 1,090 found logs, 26 DNF logs, 23 write note, and 3 NM. because of these numbers having a note of any potential problems at the beginning of a find log makes it easier to sort out at the next opertunity rather than waiting for the Neends Maintainance logs to start appearing, which will no doubt happen at a time when you cannot get to a cache for a few weeks!

I'd appreciate if you'd state clearly in your description "I don't read the Found logs, so don't waste time writing good ones." In the absense of specific instructions, I'm going to assume that my experience is more important to you than your minor maintenance issues.

 

How is it a waste of time writing a "good" found log just because one person doesn't read them in enough detail to write their own detailed analysis of them? If I had 1090 found logs in two weeks I don't know that I'd be reading every single one of them in great detail just in case someone had buried "the log is a bit damp" in the depths of it somewhere.

[+dprovan]

So by that logic, if I'm not absolutely positive that the owner reads through the logs, I should just log "TFTC", right?

Not sure how you got that.

Ant89's claim was that he has too many logs to read, so he is unlikely to read past the first couple words, no matter what I write. So if I pay attention only to what the CO wants -- which was an implicit part of his logic -- then I shouldn't write anything unless it has to do with cache maintenance.

 

Now that he's clarified that he's talking about cut&paste logs, however, the point makes perfect sense to me, and I withdraw my objection. To me, cut&paste logs are entirely worthless, so I failed to consider the point Ant89 was making, which was if you do use worthless cut&paste logs, at least put anything specific to the cache before them, because noone's going to read past the cut&paste intro they've already read 20 times. If we can't stamp out cut&paste logs, I suppose this is a good thing to encourage when they are used.

[team tisri]

So by that logic, if I'm not absolutely positive that the owner reads through the logs, I should just log "TFTC", right?

Not sure how you got that.

Ant89's claim was that he has too many logs to read, so he is unlikely to read past the first couple words, no matter what I write. So if I pay attention only to what the CO wants -- which was an implicit part of his logic -- then I shouldn't write anything unless it has to do with cache maintenance.

 

Now that he's clarified that he's talking about cut&paste logs, however, the point makes perfect sense to me, and I withdraw my objection. To me, cut&paste logs are entirely worthless, so I failed to consider the point Ant89 was making, which was if you do use worthless cut&paste logs, at least put anything specific to the cache before them, because noone's going to read past the cut&paste intro they've already read 20 times. If we can't stamp out cut&paste logs, I suppose this is a good thing to encourage when they are used.

 

I'm still not sure how you got that from what Ant89 said, although perhaps I read after the clarification.

 

For myself if I had caches that generated hundreds of logs every week, many of which were long, it's entirely possible I wouldn't have time to read them all in any detail so comments in the middle of a unique log suggesting some TLC was in order might be overlooked. I'd probably set up an email rule that routed Found logs into one folder and DNF/NM logs into another, as they are the ones I'd expect to indicate something being wrong.

[+Happy Humphrey]

To me, cut&paste logs are entirely worthless,

Are you sure? I have several series of caches and I find a log of any kind is most worthwhile. I'd be quite annoyed if I had no logs on a series for weeks, went and checked, and discovered that people were finding the caches but not bothering to log the finds.

If I'm out finding a series of caches I'm really grateful when someone has logged a find (or other log). It helps me calculate my chances of finding the cache. For instance, if it's been found every day in the previous week and I can't spot it; chances are that it's there and just needs a bit more effort to find. If no-one has logged it for ages, then I might give up fairly quickly.

 

That someone has only posted TFTC or similar is not an issue; most of the useful information is in the date and type of log.

 

As regards hiding maintenance information in a log; if it's relevant I'll mention it (such as "although I was expecting a wet cache, all seemed quite dry"). If there's something wrong with the cache (such as the logbook being seriously wet) then obviously you post your log and follow it with a Needs Maintenance.

[+dprovan]

To me, cut&paste logs are entirely worthless,

Are you sure? I have several series of caches and I find a log of any kind is most worthwhile.

Good point. I agree. I meant that the cut&paste part of the log was worthless. I didn't mean to imply that if all you were going to do was cut&paste logs, that you shouldn't log at all. And I'm thinking of those cut&paste logs that go on for a few paragraphs about the entire trip. I have no problem with short "Enjoyed the series, TFTC" type cut&paste logs if that's appropriate for the series (or is the best someone can do). Thanks for forcing me to clarify.

[+Happy Humphrey]

To me, cut&paste logs are entirely worthless,

Are you sure? I have several series of caches and I find a log of any kind is most worthwhile.

Good point. I agree. I meant that the cut&paste part of the log was worthless. I didn't mean to imply that if all you were going to do was cut&paste logs, that you shouldn't log at all. And I'm thinking of those cut&paste logs that go on for a few paragraphs about the entire trip. I have no problem with short "Enjoyed the series, TFTC" type cut&paste logs if that's appropriate for the series (or is the best someone can do). Thanks for forcing me to clarify.

I understand now. I've seen a few of those that give the same summary of the trip in each log and they are pretty pointless.

 

If anyone is thinking "Oh dear, I always just put 'TFTC' in cache series logs because I can't remember the individual finds", then my tip is to look at every hint when you're finding caches in a series. Then when you come to log the caches, the hint serves as a reminder about the cache and you can remember enough to write a short unique log. Even if the hint just says "bottom of fence post" you gave a much better chance of remembering the cache, particularly if you log in the sequence you found them. It doesn't have to be literature. I might write something like "Checked a couple of hint items before locating the correct one, then the cache was an easy spot.".

 

Personally, I try to give each cache in my series a memorable name and a distinctive hint to help people remember. Another tip.

For the name, start with an abbreviation for the series as a whole (so if it's called "Test Cache Series" use "TCS") and then a number ("TCS01") and then a name that reflects something about the location ("TCS01: Green Triangle"). That way, if the GPSr can only show part of the name you get the important bit, sorted into order; and if a finder is having trouble remembering the cache, the name will help give them a chance of writing something unique.

[donvanvliet]

Why can't you just log "needs maintenance" from the log description drop down thingie ??Then a red icon appears, so why list maintenance in the log message??