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New Garmin Oregon 600 Series


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... My old Magellan Platinum can hold 14,000,000 caches along with maps of the whole U.S. on a 2G SD card

But the older Meridian Platinum was using more limited mapping data mapping and the geocaches were only waypoint/name/comment - no log, right?

 

For the sake of argument I'd allow you MIGHT have been able to load up 14M caches -- if that many caches were ever in existence, and if you could accumulate them, and figure out how to organize your files. But what was the largest number you ever actually DID have loaded on it at one time?

 

I have loaded 40 PQ's of 500 each = 20,000. I name each file I load so I can pull up a given city along my route or a section of my route ( caches along a route). No description etc but that is on my Nuvi, iPhone, PDA, and my 3 paperless units. I also travel with 2 computers. On an 8000 mile trip you will pass near a lot of caches these days.....for short trips 4000 is plenty and around home 500-1000 is fine. This past summer I didn't break out the Platinum once....the 5000 limit on the 62S lets me stay one step ahead on my trips in case a hotel loses internet.....also all the PQ's are loaded into GSAK databases so I can load the GPS units in the field if need be .

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You can have your own belief and I'm not condemning or something like that, I only wonder how your day looks like if you do 100 or more caches a day.

The discussion here is, can the Gps hold unlimited or 'only' 4 million caches and that seem a lot to me and totally over the top.

 

totally off topic - but what do you talk about in your 1300+ posts with 0 found geocaches?

 

Well I generally reply to people who encounter gps problems, or asking for help. :rolleyes:

 

BTW not only the moderator is grumpy today, you have a storm or similar over there??

Edited by splashy
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You can have your own belief and I'm not condemning or something like that, I only wonder how your day looks like if you do 100 or more caches a day.

The discussion here is, can the Gps hold unlimited or 'only' 4 million caches and that seem a lot to me and totally over the top.

 

totally off topic - but what do you talk about in your 1300+ posts with 0 found geocaches?

 

Well I generally reply to people who encounter gps problems, or asking for help. :rolleyes:

 

BTW not only the moderator is grumpy today, you have a storm or similar over there??

 

LOL fair enough :) I guess I post more about GPS technology than actual geocaching too :P

 

back on topic -> when is FCC finally going to approve new Oregon ? I can't wait for more hands-on reviews

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I don't cache and every word I read here seems to prove why I shouldn't cache.

1000 in a PQ, 5000 max a day.

How many freaking caches do you want to do on a day, month a year? And that you call holiday. :rolleyes: And your partner is ok with that?

 

I maintain my own database of caches within about 20 miles of home (straying to about 30 miles in one direction and down to about 10-15 in another). Within that radius I've got about 5000 caches, not including puzzles I haven't solved and a few extreme caches that might as well be on the moon for someone as unsuited to climbing up trees as I am.

 

I'm not going to actually go out and find all 5000 caches on any given day. In 9 years of geocaching I've found just over 2100 caches. The point is I like to be able to strike out and know that within the kind of range I regard as reachable on a bike ride, I can stop and find a cache or two if the urge strikes me.

 

Some days I go out with a view to look for lots of caches. Some days I go out to chew up some miles and blow off some steam and may find a few caches along the way. Some days I pick one or two caches at a specific distance and aim for them. Other days I just go and crank the pedals and cycle right past dozens of caches and don't even slow down.

 

If I've got 5000 caches within my GPS I know that on any circular ride up to about 40-50 miles I'm not going to stray far from the boundaries that I've got covered by caches. But that only gives me 50 miles - it's easy enough to increase the distance and end up missing out on caches I might have enjoyed, even if only because I'd stopped for a rest or to enjoy a particular view and realised there was a cache 150 feet away.

 

Also some couples have geocaching as a shared interest and so go places together in order to cache. It's really no different to a couple going away together to go hiking, cycling, visiting museums or anything else people do on holidays.

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Sure could have used one of these new GPSrs this past weekend. Had a heck of a time squeezing 5,000 caches + waypoints into my unit for a long road trip. Had a general idea where I was heading, but subject to change at a whim, which it did. Discovered an awesome little campground in the Carizzo Plain and holed up for an extra night away from home with the horned owls, coyotes and various other things that were active in the night.

 

Having several pocket queries is a big plus when you aren't focusing on a single destination, but several possibles. I have about 100 find for the weekend over a large area (gonna be a bit to get them all entered, photos posted, etc.)

 

Hoping to have new GPSr before heading off to Florida and I just never know where I'll wander around to once I get there. :)

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This is the reason moderators frequently use sock puppets to separate "Groundspeak says" from "I said"...I resisted the "moderator" badge on my postings for this very reason, but I lost that argument. My point here is mine and not that of a volunteer representative of Groundpspeak. When I speak in moderator mode, I try to label it as such, using terms such as those attributed above. I put my personal name on everything I type.

 

Vendors, including Garmin, continue to use "unlimited" in places where it simply can not be true. https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=113532 says " transfer an unlimited amount of satellite images to your device when paired with a BirdsEye Satellite Imagery subscription". Transfer a couple of yottabytes to from Birdseye to the device and see what breaks first. Hint: check the price of a yottabyte SD card....

Quoting http://garmin.blogs.com/my_weblog/2013/01/incredible-high-res-multi-touch-display-gpsglonass-and-8-mp-camera-the-new-garmin-oregon-series-pack.html, "Unlimited Geocaching: The Oregon can hold an unlimited number of geocaches ". I'd be willing to bet large amounts that it can't. It'll run out of address space, database index space, virtual address space, reasonable performance constraints ("It'll support it, but it'll take 3.7 years to boot...") or so on.

 

My point really is that nothing in computer science is ever "unlimited". That's all. That's the "science" in "computer science".

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Okay - now this is Lee just chatting semantics with Robert rather than the chief babel head or the grumpy moderator - but carping about this kind of advertising hype is like complaining the "All-You-Can-Eat" buffet kicks you out at closing time and doesn't let you take a doggy bag.

 

Computer science doesn't enter into it. I'm sure you can find a way overload it, but in practice "more than you can download from GC.com in a week" is effectively unlimited -- for the vast majority of users this IS all they can eat.

 

Of course, that's assuming the thing works even to published specs (which are semantically less bold than the advertising hype).

Edited by user13371
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Okay - now this is Lee just chatting semantics with Robert rather than the chief babel head or the grumpy moderator - but carping about this kind of advertising hype is like complaining the "All-You-Can-Eat" buffet kicks you out at closing time and doesn't let you take a doggy bag.

 

Computer science doesn't enter into it. I'm sure you can find a way overload it, but in practice "more than you can download from GC.com in a week" is effectively unlimited -- for the vast majority of users this IS all they can eat.

 

Of course, that's assuming the thing works even to published specs (which are semantically less bold than the advertising hype).

 

It might be effectively unlimited but it still isn't unlimited.

 

Aside from the terms of use there's nothing to actively prevent a bunch of people from sharing pocket queries and ending up with an offline database containing hundreds of thousands of geocaches. If a device says "unlimited geocaches" and can't cope with a file containing every cache in the world then it isn't unlimited. If it says "1,000,000 geocaches" then to all intents and purposes it's unlimited but it does make clear that there is a limit even if the overwhelming majority of people will never get anywhere near it.

 

With the "all you can eat" buffet the implication is that you get one session and the deal is all you can eat before closing time. If they offered "all you can eat" and then asked you to leave because you were going back for your 28th plateful of food you'd be perfectly entitled to complain.

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Again: The word "unlimited" does not appear anywhere in connection with geocaching on the actual Garmin product pages for any of the Oregon 6x0 models. What it actually says is:

 

Load All the Geocaches. No more picking, choosing and planning, just download them all. Oregon 650t can hold up to 4 million. Download every cache on OpenCaching.com. Load caches from GSAK. Or use your favorite program or website supporting GGZ files.

-- Source https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=&pID=113548

 

I don't think that even needs an asterisk for clarification: If you're using their format and software or hosting sites that support it, there's room for all the caches you can get your hands on. Load them all is effectively, if not literally, unlimited.

 

As for the the various blogs, blurbs, and reseller websites that DO use the word "unlimited" -- yeah, they need an asterisk. For the kind of people who believe everything they read -- or even try to read things that it doesn't actually say.

 

Or maybe not. Maybe I'll buy one and wait for some yahoo to start a class action suit over that word. Then I can have the best of both worlds. I can enjoy the GPS and still claim that I was somehow harmed by a hyperbole.

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Again: The word "unlimited" does not appear anywhere in connection with geocaching on the actual Garmin product pages for any of the Oregon 6x0 models.

Care to eat your words? This page says:

 

Unlimited Geocaching: The Oregon can hold an unlimited number of geocaches and supports GPX files from OpenCaching.com for downloading geocaches and details straight to the unit.
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*puts tinfoil hat on*

 

You know...it's probably completely ludicrous yet entirely possible, given Garmin's foray into geocaching with its own site, that they created this new file structure to effectively gain Groundspeak's entire database of caches.

 

I know it sounds silly, but play along: This new file system is supposed to be able to handle up to four million caches on one unit. From information gleaned from posts on Opencaching.com, Garmin is going to keep this tech open source so that other sites and manufacturers can adopt this new system in order to "keep up" with them. Now, I am sure they expect Groundspeak to follow through and adjust their site to allow for the potential massive downloads that would make such a new file system useful (i.e., allow for PQ's of unlimited size). Now, could it just be that Garmin hopes that Groundspeak adopts the system and allows unlimited PQ's so that someone, somewhere, can download the entire database and upload it to Opencaching.com? They have already shown that they just want a large database no matter how they get it (proven by the fact that well over 90% of their listings are crosslisted from this site), so imagine if they could gain every listing here? The listings wouldn't even need to go through peer review, because in numerous cases, TPTB just push through bulk listings and bypass peer review.

 

I don't think that they feel that they can compete with Groundspeak on the same turf, but given the way they promote things and insert their caching service in their literature, I am betting that they hope to snag new users who usually leave their site once they figure out that there are few caches there and realize there is a bigger and better show in town. With Groundspeak's whole database potentially on their site, yes, it would be a copy of this site, but newbies would probably never know.

 

*takes tinfoil hat off*

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Now, could it just be that Garmin hopes that Groundspeak adopts the system and allows unlimited PQ's so that someone, somewhere, can download the entire database and upload it to Opencaching.com? They have already shown that they just want a large database no matter how they get it (proven by the fact that well over 90% of their listings are crosslisted from this site), so imagine if they could gain every listing here? The listings wouldn't even need to go through peer review, because in numerous cases, TPTB just push through bulk listings and bypass peer review.

 

 

medium_35c5d4a1f2c13bec7139f5ab680b0883.jpg

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Care to eat your words?

Care to read what I actually wrote? I pointed to the PRODUCT DESCRIPTION pages (which just says "load them all" and made a clear distinction between those specs and "blog" pages that do say "unlimited."

 

You're pointing to the exact kind of blog that I said might need an asterisk.

Edited by user13371
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Red90, even though I jumped into it, I agree with you completely. It's a non-issue and a silly argument. I'm tempted to call someone names or drop a dirty word in here just to get a mod (maybe even the same one who groused about "unlimited") to lock the thread down. With my luck though I'd probably just get a caution.

 

-Lee

Edited by user13371
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Schweady, you humorously bring up a very good point - on topic and less silly than quibbling over the word "unlimited."

 

TIME. Even if some listing service - GC, OC, or other - allowed daily downloads of tens of tho.usands of caches... How long would it take to pull down from the host site? How long to copy to the GPS? And RobertLipe alluded to earlier, what does a huge data set do to startup time, sorting and searching?

 

Wait and see...

Edited by user13371
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Do you think you guys should start a new thread about the new darned file format? I keep checking back here hoping to see new information about the Oregon 600 series, release dates, pics, review links, features, etc. I'm not saying the new file format isn't part of it but it's become such a focal point that perhaps a new thread would serve the discussion better?

 

Thanks

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Do you think you guys should start a new thread about the new darned file format? I keep checking back here hoping to see new information about the Oregon 600 series, release dates, pics, review links, features, etc. I'm not saying the new file format isn't part of it but it's become such a focal point that perhaps a new thread would serve the discussion better?

 

Thanks

 

HERE HERE. It's getting pretty boring !

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Do you think you guys should start a new thread about the new darned file format? I keep checking back here hoping to see new information about the Oregon 600 series, release dates, pics, review links, features, etc. I'm not saying the new file format isn't part of it but it's become such a focal point that perhaps a new thread would serve the discussion better?

 

Thanks

 

HERE HERE. It's getting pretty boring !

 

Indeed, it's degraded to a stupid argument over theortics, while substance is being ignored. The discussion of infinite caching can be taken over to Off Topic where all and sundry jokes and mirth may take full advantage of near infinite space afforded there.

 

I've only seen a few posts on the GGZ format, so far summarized as: The large numbers of caches are dependent upon GGZ format, not attainable with GPX. GGZ is supposed to be fully available to whomever wishes to implement it (Geocaching.com included)

 

I'd also like to know a bit about the construction, particulary the face of the screen. My Oregon 450 is very scratched up, mended with a bit of buffing, but the damage largely happens as we get grit on our fingers while caching and soft plastic is no match for it. I haven't been able to determine from Garmin's publicity material whether this is going to be another plastic screen or something more akin to glass.

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I'd also like to know a bit about the construction, particulary the face of the screen. My Oregon 450 is very scratched up, mended with a bit of buffing, but the damage largely happens as we get grit on our fingers while caching and soft plastic is no match for it. I haven't been able to determine from Garmin's publicity material whether this is going to be another plastic screen or something more akin to glass.

 

I recommend putting a Zagg Invisible Shield or equivalent on the screen on day 1, it takes the damage and is easily replaced.

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Zagg shield ALWAYS. Not one day without one. 14 bucks delivered saves you much consternation down the road.

 

One thing, often the application of the zagg shield itself smooths over minor scratching and scuffing. So if yours isn't badly damaged a zagg could make it look like new.

Edited by yogazoo
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Basecamp Mobile[/i]

 

Where's the Android version?

 

exactly. I don't care about this feature at all since I run android. I just hope you will be able to transfer stuff between Oregon and PC via bluetooth

 

I don't care about apps. I'm expecting this means a new version of Basecamp for the PC will be out soon. So close to release, yet so little detailed information. Maddening.

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Any chance we could get back to discussing GPS units and file formats, sometime this weekend?

 

Any thoughts on my earlier guess that GGZ will be a zip file containing multiple other files, GPX, images, maps all in one bundle?

 

Pulled off Garmin support:

Question: What are GGZ files?

Answer:

GGZ is a Garmin file extension utilized for a specially formated zipped file containing a large quantity of geocaches. The properties of the GGZ file allow it to be read much faster than a standard ZIP containing a large quantity of geocaches.

 

Utilizing Opencaching with compatible devices, such as the Oregon 600 series, will allow you to automatically make use of this new file format. Other sites like Geocaching.com may not offer this feature initially.

 

So there we have it. Next up, finding tools/source/specs for this new Zipping method.

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I don't know of these are shipping yet, but someone must have them.

 

Does anyone know whether the new models have shipped or not? Or have an ETA for them?

 

BTW I am in the UK but I expect we will get them some time after they hit the streets in the USA.

 

different stores show shipping date anywhere between 3/12 and 4/1. On garmin's website it says it still hasn't cleared FCC so I presume no, they have not shipped out yet

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different stores show shipping date anywhere between 3/12 and 4/1. On garmin's website it says it still hasn't cleared FCC so I presume no, they have not shipped out yet

 

Indeed, they have not finished FCC approval. Still a few (?) weeks away :(

Edited by BMW JEDI
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gpscity.com changed their delivery date from 3/12 to 3/25 today. I guess as long as it ships before 4/1 I'm cool

 

And if not? Are you going to denounce Garmin, throw out all their products you already own, and switch to another brand? ;-)

 

no, but I will be mildly annoyed <_<

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I'm curious why the FCC delay. Is this their first Bluetooth GPS?

Yes. Nobody has ever sold a Bluetooth GPS in the USA.

 

Funny, I used Bluetooth GPS units with my Sony Ericsson T68, P800 and T616 phones more than ten years ago, in the USA!

Edited by BMW JEDI
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I wonder why not? Feature parity for iOS and Android users (or lack thereof) is gonna be as big a grumbly point as the old Mac vs PC issue. In that realm, Garmin trounced other GPS makers and they could do so he also. Even DeLorme offers their "Earthmate" app for the inReach on both Andoird and iOS.

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