Jump to content

New Garmin Oregon 600 Series


Recommended Posts

I preordered a 650T from L L Bean at the beginning of the month. At that time the web site was saying it would be available on Feb. 22th. Today the date has ben pushed back to Feb. 28th. Only time will tell :P

 

hmm LL Bean has 15% off if you sign up for their card and no tax in my state, I might just do that instead of amazon.

 

The best part of buying from Beans is they will always allow you to return the item for a refund. Very similar to REI. I'm funding this new Garmin in part by returning an old Delorme PN-40 that I purchase in the past. They gave me a Full refund via a store credit even though I didn't request it, which I put total the new 650t. You gotta luv Beans :)

 

sounds great! And they list the earliest shipping date of all the retailers :laughing:

Link to comment

LL Bean is currently running a 10% off sale starting this morning the 14th and ending 18th. That's a good deal for picking up. The promo code to use at online checkout or via phone is WINTER10. I just called and had this applied to my order of January 29th.

 

looks like that 10% replaced 15% from last week, dang. I should have ordered already. I wonder how often they have these promotions

Link to comment

LL Bean is currently running a 10% off sale starting this morning the 14th and ending 18th. That's a good deal for picking up. The promo code to use at online checkout or via phone is WINTER10. I just called and had this applied to my order of January 29th.

 

looks like that 10% replaced 15% from last week, dang. I should have ordered already. I wonder how often they have these promotions

 

Usually beginning of the year as they are trying to clear out inventory and get ready for Spring. They're hoping you'll be spending that discount on clothing, boots, and such.

Link to comment

Just noticed this forun. I sent an e-mail to Garmin back in early January, asking about the ggz file format. The reply was:

 

The GGZ file format will simply be another supported file format that the Oregon 600 can use. The device will continue to use the GPX file format as well.

 

 

It didn't answer much, but we can see it will still use the gpx format. To bad there isn't more info available.

Link to comment

It's all pretty immaterial though ... who the heck would want to store 4000 caches, let alone 4 million :rolleyes:

 

4000 caches isn't actually that many when you run a few PQs. When I export caches within 30 miles of home (and my PQs only stretch to about 15 miles in some directions) it's quite common for me to end up with over 4000 caches in my output.

Link to comment

It's all pretty immaterial though ... who the heck would want to store 4000 caches, let alone 4 million :rolleyes:

 

4000 caches isn't actually that many when you run a few PQs. When I export caches within 30 miles of home (and my PQs only stretch to about 15 miles in some directions) it's quite common for me to end up with over 4000 caches in my output.

 

Wow, you must be in a densely populated cache area, I get about 400 that close to home :)

 

A friend in PA set himself the target of finding everything within 10 miles of his home. Within 10 miles of my home are some 1200 caches I've found (although some have been archived) plus a further 1000 or so I have yet to find (some of which I'll never find because they are nanos on long railings or things up tall trees etc).

 

When I showed him my local caching map his jaw dropped and he announced he wanted to come and visit me to get his numbers up.

Link to comment

It's all pretty immaterial though ... who the heck would want to store 4000 caches, let alone 4 million :rolleyes:

 

When on roadtrips it would be great to have 4000 caches loaded. If I were able to run a user route pocket query from Blaine WA to the Snoqualmie tunnel WA one mile either side I bet I would get 4000 caches. Not that I would try and find all 4000, but it gives you a lot of options as the miles fly by. To have all the caches in Washington State loaded while on a two week trip all over the state would be the best!

Link to comment

Well so much for Bean's. I just received an email stating the backordered ship date of Feb, 28 has been pushed back to March 31. Guess I'll just have to wait. Glad I haven't sold my 550T yet <_<

 

yeah I saw that :(

 

I just placed my order. Signed up for their credit card and got 15% off, unfortunately I didn't let me combine it with the 10% off offer but still $339.15 shipped is not bad

Link to comment

It's all pretty immaterial though ... who the heck would want to store 4000 caches, let alone 4 million :rolleyes:

 

When on roadtrips it would be great to have 4000 caches loaded. If I were able to run a user route pocket query from Blaine WA to the Snoqualmie tunnel WA one mile either side I bet I would get 4000 caches. Not that I would try and find all 4000, but it gives you a lot of options as the miles fly by. To have all the caches in Washington State loaded while on a two week trip all over the state would be the best!

 

It would be really nice to be able to have all the caches along the entire eastern US for a long roadtrip. When I visit the US I end up with pocket queries for all the places we're likely to visit but it would be nice to be able to break a long drive at a rest stop and see if there were any caches around.

 

Last long drive I checked the welcome areas in WV on the interstate, since WV was staying resolutely clear on my "states with found caches" map, although that meant a GPS-inspired reroute would have resulted in missing the proposed rest stops.

Link to comment

I really wish vendors would quit using terms like "unlimited". In computer science, there's always a limit, though it might be really hard to reach.

 

4,000 caches in a device is amateur hour in modern times. If you're going to claim "unlimited", let's talk about "billions" (which will surely exceed the primary key/index/file offset of your puny 32 bit embedded processor) and look me up. A 4.2GB Pocket Query? Think really hard before your device claims it'll support it.

 

This whole school of "40 == infinity" thing is just depressing. "If you can find more caches than that in a day, it's effectively infinite, right?" Absolutely not. Vendors should be as responsible for their "infinite" claims as auto vendors are that say "infinite MPG" (if it's downhill, the wind is at your back, and you never turn or stop.)

 

This aspect of this thread is simply silly.

 

If you're a GPS vendor with something to prove and willing to claim "infinite" anything, send me a unit and I'll about guarantee I can find a limit that'll break it.. Your 32-bit embedded core ran into hash table conflicts when there are 4.2Bn geocaches/waypoints at the same coordinates? Boo Hoo. You ran out of address space mapping 4.2Bn caches, each with a 100KB description that consists entirely of entity encoded strings? Waaah.

 

Please be realistic. Everything in computer science has limits. Hash table conflicts, string lengths, virtual memory, address space, whatever...Eventually you WILL run out of somethings.

 

This isn't pie-in-the-sky theoretics; finding 4,000 geocaches in a single trip is pretty simple in light of multi-day triops like E.T. Highway and Route 66. 4,000 geocaches between reloads is no longer "extreme geocaching" and we shouldn't pretend it is.

 

Link to comment

Whoa, the grumpy moderator certainly is today :D

 

I missed where Garmin said the thing could hold unlimited caches or even 4.2 billion. ...okay, some of their blogs and blurbs DO say "unlimited," but... Their product info/specs page just says "load them all" and specifically mentions a limit of 4 million, not billion.

 

Advertising hyperbole, sure -- but I won't grump about either "unlimited" or "load them all" because their number is around 2x more than the total number of caches on GC.com. Even if you added the three or four caches available on Garmin's OpenCaching you'd still have plenty of room.

 

In practice, PQ size and daily limits are tougher limit to work with than how many I can fit into the GPS. Downloading only 5000 a day, much of your data will be stale before you've even accumulated a million in your local GSAK database.

Edited by user13371
Link to comment

Wow, do the moderators here have an axe to grind, or what?

 

I just checked the Garmin website and found exactly what user13371 and Red90 suggest; The Oregon is limited to four million caches.

 

Perhaps the Groundspeak moderators should consider using facts before their next clearly obvious biased rant about nothing....

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but Groundspeaks limit of 1000 caches per PQ, and only 6000 caches per day, seems to be the real limiting factor in getting current and useful geocache data on your GPS.

Link to comment

It's all pretty immaterial though ... who the heck would want to store 4000 caches, let alone 4 million :rolleyes:

 

When on roadtrips it would be great to have 4000 caches loaded. If I were able to run a user route pocket query from Blaine WA to the Snoqualmie tunnel WA one mile either side I bet I would get 4000 caches. Not that I would try and find all 4000, but it gives you a lot of options as the miles fly by. To have all the caches in Washington State loaded while on a two week trip all over the state would be the best!

 

It would be really nice to be able to have all the caches along the entire eastern US for a long roadtrip. When I visit the US I end up with pocket queries for all the places we're likely to visit but it would be nice to be able to break a long drive at a rest stop and see if there were any caches around.

 

Last long drive I checked the welcome areas in WV on the interstate, since WV was staying resolutely clear on my "states with found caches" map, although that meant a GPS-inspired reroute would have resulted in missing the proposed rest stops.

 

Well said.

On my long vacation trips across the U.S. I will have about 40,000 caches in my general path or search area. My old Magellan Platinum can hold 14,000,000 caches along with maps of the whole U.S. on a 2G SD card ( pre 2003 technology ). I can load all 40,000 on My Nuvi with a macro ( again old technology ). My new units ( 62S, Oregon 450 ) can only hold 5000 each so I have to be tethered to a computer. This has always been a Garmin problem ( since abandoning the Meridian , Magellan is in the same boat) . GC.com gives 1000 cache PQ's which is fine if only Garmin would let you load and name 40 ( or however many you want ) of them on to your unit.....you could take nice long trips without worrying about computers, internet connections, etc. I still bring a couple of Platinums along in case the other stuff blows up.

Link to comment

I don't cache and every word I read here seems to prove why I shouldn't cache.

1000 in a PQ, 5000 max a day.

How many freaking caches do you want to do on a day, month a year? And that you call holiday. :rolleyes: And your partner is ok with that?

 

If you cached, you'd probably be able to appreciate more likely scenarios:

 

I maintain five PQs that cover most of the area around where I live. I generate and download these ~3500 caches once every week or two and put them in my GPSr (Montana) which is usually in my car. I can pull out the Montana and locate a cache near me (or near work, or a relative's house, or...) without having to plan ahead. It's nice for on-demand caching.

 

Same goes for long driving trips, or when traveling to a new city. I load up my GPSr so that I don't have to plan every single cache. I've got them all handy, and can find whatever suits my fancy at the moment.

 

It's about flexibility.

Link to comment

I don't cache and every word I read here seems to prove why I shouldn't cache.

1000 in a PQ, 5000 max a day.

How many freaking caches do you want to do on a day, month a year? And that you call holiday. :rolleyes: And your partner is ok with that?

Why can't people have their own beliefs on how to spend their time? What business is it of yours? Some people enjoy find hundreds per day. Some people want to look one up at any time without connecting to the internet. Your profile show zero finds.

Link to comment

I don't cache and every word I read here seems to prove why I shouldn't cache.

1000 in a PQ, 5000 max a day.

How many freaking caches do you want to do on a day, month a year? And that you call holiday. :rolleyes: And your partner is ok with that?

Why can't people have their own beliefs on how to spend their time? What business is it of yours? Some people enjoy find hundreds per day. Some people want to look one up at any time without connecting to the internet. Your profile show zero finds.

 

well, he did say he doesn't cache :)

Link to comment

LL Bean is currently running a 10% off sale starting this morning the 14th and ending 18th. That's a good deal for picking up. The promo code to use at online checkout or via phone is WINTER10. I just called and had this applied to my order of January 29th.

 

looks like that 10% replaced 15% from last week, dang. I should have ordered already. I wonder how often they have these promotions

 

Email them and ask then to refund the extra percentage. I got a 10% off email coupon a couple of days after I received my Montana 600. I emailed them about it and they credited the 10% back to my card, no problem. Since you can return anything for ANY reason, believe me... They do not want you sending it back for a full refund and re-ordering the same thing again with the coupon. :anibad:

Link to comment

LL Bean is currently running a 10% off sale starting this morning the 14th and ending 18th. That's a good deal for picking up. The promo code to use at online checkout or via phone is WINTER10. I just called and had this applied to my order of January 29th.

 

looks like that 10% replaced 15% from last week, dang. I should have ordered already. I wonder how often they have these promotions

 

Email them and ask them to refund the extra percentage. I got a 10% off email coupon a couple of days after I received my Montana 600. I emailed them about it and they credited the 10% back to my card, no problem. Since you can return anything for ANY reason, believe me... They do not want an "open box" return because you sent it back for a full refund and re-ordered the same thing again with the coupon. :anibad:

Edited by sviking
Link to comment

LL Bean is currently running a 10% off sale starting this morning the 14th and ending 18th. That's a good deal for picking up. The promo code to use at online checkout or via phone is WINTER10. I just called and had this applied to my order of January 29th.

 

looks like that 10% replaced 15% from last week, dang. I should have ordered already. I wonder how often they have these promotions

 

Email them and ask then to refund the extra percentage. I got a 10% off email coupon a couple of days after I received my Montana 600. I emailed them about it and they credited the 10% back to my card, no problem. Since you can return anything for ANY reason, believe me... They do not want you sending it back for a full refund and re-ordering the same thing again with the coupon. :anibad:

 

So when I clicked on their Visa card page it kept showing only the 10% off coupon, but then when I actually started a new order and got to checkout it showed the 15% deal again so I'm good. Not sure how all those promotions work :)

Link to comment
... My old Magellan Platinum can hold 14,000,000 caches along with maps of the whole U.S. on a 2G SD card

But the older Meridian Platinum was using more limited mapping data mapping and the geocaches were only waypoint/name/comment - no log, right?

 

For the sake of argument I'd allow you MIGHT have been able to load up 14M caches -- if that many caches were ever in existence, and if you could accumulate them, and figure out how to organize your files. But what was the largest number you ever actually DID have loaded on it at one time?

Link to comment

You can have your own belief and I'm not condemning or something like that, I only wonder how your day looks like if you do 100 or more caches a day.

The discussion here is, can the Gps hold unlimited or 'only' 4 million caches and that seem a lot to me and totally over the top.

 

totally off topic - but what do you talk about in your 1300+ posts with 0 found geocaches?

Edited by gulo
Link to comment
... My old Magellan Platinum can hold 14,000,000 caches along with maps of the whole U.S. on a 2G SD card

But the older Meridian Platinum was using more limited mapping data mapping and the geocaches were only waypoint/name/comment - no log, right?

 

For the sake of argument I'd allow you MIGHT have been able to load up 14M caches -- if that many caches were ever in existence, and if you could accumulate them, and figure out how to organize your files. But what was the largest number you ever actually DID have loaded on it at one time?

 

I have loaded 40 PQ's of 500 each = 20,000. I name each file I load so I can pull up a given city along my route or a section of my route ( caches along a route). No description etc but that is on my Nuvi, iPhone, PDA, and my 3 paperless units. I also travel with 2 computers. On an 8000 mile trip you will pass near a lot of caches these days.....for short trips 4000 is plenty and around home 500-1000 is fine. This past summer I didn't break out the Platinum once....the 5000 limit on the 62S lets me stay one step ahead on my trips in case a hotel loses internet.....also all the PQ's are loaded into GSAK databases so I can load the GPS units in the field if need be .

Link to comment

You can have your own belief and I'm not condemning or something like that, I only wonder how your day looks like if you do 100 or more caches a day.

The discussion here is, can the Gps hold unlimited or 'only' 4 million caches and that seem a lot to me and totally over the top.

 

totally off topic - but what do you talk about in your 1300+ posts with 0 found geocaches?

 

Well I generally reply to people who encounter gps problems, or asking for help. :rolleyes:

 

BTW not only the moderator is grumpy today, you have a storm or similar over there??

Edited by splashy
Link to comment

You can have your own belief and I'm not condemning or something like that, I only wonder how your day looks like if you do 100 or more caches a day.

The discussion here is, can the Gps hold unlimited or 'only' 4 million caches and that seem a lot to me and totally over the top.

 

totally off topic - but what do you talk about in your 1300+ posts with 0 found geocaches?

 

Well I generally reply to people who encounter gps problems, or asking for help. :rolleyes:

 

BTW not only the moderator is grumpy today, you have a storm or similar over there??

 

LOL fair enough :) I guess I post more about GPS technology than actual geocaching too :P

 

back on topic -> when is FCC finally going to approve new Oregon ? I can't wait for more hands-on reviews

Link to comment

I don't cache and every word I read here seems to prove why I shouldn't cache.

1000 in a PQ, 5000 max a day.

How many freaking caches do you want to do on a day, month a year? And that you call holiday. :rolleyes: And your partner is ok with that?

 

I maintain my own database of caches within about 20 miles of home (straying to about 30 miles in one direction and down to about 10-15 in another). Within that radius I've got about 5000 caches, not including puzzles I haven't solved and a few extreme caches that might as well be on the moon for someone as unsuited to climbing up trees as I am.

 

I'm not going to actually go out and find all 5000 caches on any given day. In 9 years of geocaching I've found just over 2100 caches. The point is I like to be able to strike out and know that within the kind of range I regard as reachable on a bike ride, I can stop and find a cache or two if the urge strikes me.

 

Some days I go out with a view to look for lots of caches. Some days I go out to chew up some miles and blow off some steam and may find a few caches along the way. Some days I pick one or two caches at a specific distance and aim for them. Other days I just go and crank the pedals and cycle right past dozens of caches and don't even slow down.

 

If I've got 5000 caches within my GPS I know that on any circular ride up to about 40-50 miles I'm not going to stray far from the boundaries that I've got covered by caches. But that only gives me 50 miles - it's easy enough to increase the distance and end up missing out on caches I might have enjoyed, even if only because I'd stopped for a rest or to enjoy a particular view and realised there was a cache 150 feet away.

 

Also some couples have geocaching as a shared interest and so go places together in order to cache. It's really no different to a couple going away together to go hiking, cycling, visiting museums or anything else people do on holidays.

Link to comment

Sure could have used one of these new GPSrs this past weekend. Had a heck of a time squeezing 5,000 caches + waypoints into my unit for a long road trip. Had a general idea where I was heading, but subject to change at a whim, which it did. Discovered an awesome little campground in the Carizzo Plain and holed up for an extra night away from home with the horned owls, coyotes and various other things that were active in the night.

 

Having several pocket queries is a big plus when you aren't focusing on a single destination, but several possibles. I have about 100 find for the weekend over a large area (gonna be a bit to get them all entered, photos posted, etc.)

 

Hoping to have new GPSr before heading off to Florida and I just never know where I'll wander around to once I get there. :)

Link to comment

This is the reason moderators frequently use sock puppets to separate "Groundspeak says" from "I said"...I resisted the "moderator" badge on my postings for this very reason, but I lost that argument. My point here is mine and not that of a volunteer representative of Groundpspeak. When I speak in moderator mode, I try to label it as such, using terms such as those attributed above. I put my personal name on everything I type.

 

Vendors, including Garmin, continue to use "unlimited" in places where it simply can not be true. https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=113532 says " transfer an unlimited amount of satellite images to your device when paired with a BirdsEye Satellite Imagery subscription". Transfer a couple of yottabytes to from Birdseye to the device and see what breaks first. Hint: check the price of a yottabyte SD card....

Quoting http://garmin.blogs.com/my_weblog/2013/01/incredible-high-res-multi-touch-display-gpsglonass-and-8-mp-camera-the-new-garmin-oregon-series-pack.html, "Unlimited Geocaching: The Oregon can hold an unlimited number of geocaches ". I'd be willing to bet large amounts that it can't. It'll run out of address space, database index space, virtual address space, reasonable performance constraints ("It'll support it, but it'll take 3.7 years to boot...") or so on.

 

My point really is that nothing in computer science is ever "unlimited". That's all. That's the "science" in "computer science".

Link to comment

Okay - now this is Lee just chatting semantics with Robert rather than the chief babel head or the grumpy moderator - but carping about this kind of advertising hype is like complaining the "All-You-Can-Eat" buffet kicks you out at closing time and doesn't let you take a doggy bag.

 

Computer science doesn't enter into it. I'm sure you can find a way overload it, but in practice "more than you can download from GC.com in a week" is effectively unlimited -- for the vast majority of users this IS all they can eat.

 

Of course, that's assuming the thing works even to published specs (which are semantically less bold than the advertising hype).

Edited by user13371
Link to comment

Okay - now this is Lee just chatting semantics with Robert rather than the chief babel head or the grumpy moderator - but carping about this kind of advertising hype is like complaining the "All-You-Can-Eat" buffet kicks you out at closing time and doesn't let you take a doggy bag.

 

Computer science doesn't enter into it. I'm sure you can find a way overload it, but in practice "more than you can download from GC.com in a week" is effectively unlimited -- for the vast majority of users this IS all they can eat.

 

Of course, that's assuming the thing works even to published specs (which are semantically less bold than the advertising hype).

 

It might be effectively unlimited but it still isn't unlimited.

 

Aside from the terms of use there's nothing to actively prevent a bunch of people from sharing pocket queries and ending up with an offline database containing hundreds of thousands of geocaches. If a device says "unlimited geocaches" and can't cope with a file containing every cache in the world then it isn't unlimited. If it says "1,000,000 geocaches" then to all intents and purposes it's unlimited but it does make clear that there is a limit even if the overwhelming majority of people will never get anywhere near it.

 

With the "all you can eat" buffet the implication is that you get one session and the deal is all you can eat before closing time. If they offered "all you can eat" and then asked you to leave because you were going back for your 28th plateful of food you'd be perfectly entitled to complain.

Link to comment

Again: The word "unlimited" does not appear anywhere in connection with geocaching on the actual Garmin product pages for any of the Oregon 6x0 models. What it actually says is:

 

Load All the Geocaches. No more picking, choosing and planning, just download them all. Oregon 650t can hold up to 4 million. Download every cache on OpenCaching.com. Load caches from GSAK. Or use your favorite program or website supporting GGZ files.

-- Source https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=&pID=113548

 

I don't think that even needs an asterisk for clarification: If you're using their format and software or hosting sites that support it, there's room for all the caches you can get your hands on. Load them all is effectively, if not literally, unlimited.

 

As for the the various blogs, blurbs, and reseller websites that DO use the word "unlimited" -- yeah, they need an asterisk. For the kind of people who believe everything they read -- or even try to read things that it doesn't actually say.

 

Or maybe not. Maybe I'll buy one and wait for some yahoo to start a class action suit over that word. Then I can have the best of both worlds. I can enjoy the GPS and still claim that I was somehow harmed by a hyperbole.

Link to comment
Again: The word "unlimited" does not appear anywhere in connection with geocaching on the actual Garmin product pages for any of the Oregon 6x0 models.

Care to eat your words? This page says:

 

Unlimited Geocaching: The Oregon can hold an unlimited number of geocaches and supports GPX files from OpenCaching.com for downloading geocaches and details straight to the unit.
Link to comment

*puts tinfoil hat on*

 

You know...it's probably completely ludicrous yet entirely possible, given Garmin's foray into geocaching with its own site, that they created this new file structure to effectively gain Groundspeak's entire database of caches.

 

I know it sounds silly, but play along: This new file system is supposed to be able to handle up to four million caches on one unit. From information gleaned from posts on Opencaching.com, Garmin is going to keep this tech open source so that other sites and manufacturers can adopt this new system in order to "keep up" with them. Now, I am sure they expect Groundspeak to follow through and adjust their site to allow for the potential massive downloads that would make such a new file system useful (i.e., allow for PQ's of unlimited size). Now, could it just be that Garmin hopes that Groundspeak adopts the system and allows unlimited PQ's so that someone, somewhere, can download the entire database and upload it to Opencaching.com? They have already shown that they just want a large database no matter how they get it (proven by the fact that well over 90% of their listings are crosslisted from this site), so imagine if they could gain every listing here? The listings wouldn't even need to go through peer review, because in numerous cases, TPTB just push through bulk listings and bypass peer review.

 

I don't think that they feel that they can compete with Groundspeak on the same turf, but given the way they promote things and insert their caching service in their literature, I am betting that they hope to snag new users who usually leave their site once they figure out that there are few caches there and realize there is a bigger and better show in town. With Groundspeak's whole database potentially on their site, yes, it would be a copy of this site, but newbies would probably never know.

 

*takes tinfoil hat off*

Link to comment

Now, could it just be that Garmin hopes that Groundspeak adopts the system and allows unlimited PQ's so that someone, somewhere, can download the entire database and upload it to Opencaching.com? They have already shown that they just want a large database no matter how they get it (proven by the fact that well over 90% of their listings are crosslisted from this site), so imagine if they could gain every listing here? The listings wouldn't even need to go through peer review, because in numerous cases, TPTB just push through bulk listings and bypass peer review.

 

 

medium_35c5d4a1f2c13bec7139f5ab680b0883.jpg

Link to comment
Care to eat your words?

Care to read what I actually wrote? I pointed to the PRODUCT DESCRIPTION pages (which just says "load them all" and made a clear distinction between those specs and "blog" pages that do say "unlimited."

 

You're pointing to the exact kind of blog that I said might need an asterisk.

Edited by user13371
Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...