Replacing wet and full log books

[+bones1]

A subject dear to my heart as we have now replaced 597 log books over the years and have worked out that it takes roughly 7 to 10 seconds to replace a log book while you have the cache right in your hands,whilst the majority of caches takes the cache owner an average of an hour to saddle up and get to the cache, i just thought especially as it has been so wet this year that all of us could try and replace logs as a kind and helpful gesture to all of us in the caching community.i know quite a few of you replace alot of logs already,a new years resolution is usually i must lose some weight,lets have a log replacing year and we might even get an ikon for it.its going to be such a shame for this nice posting for somebody to paste and cut an answer that says "its the responsibility of the cache owner to maintain his or her caches" etc etc.(i wonder who it will be)im not trying to change the rules just being very nice to each other as we are all in the same club. a very good new year and happy caching to you all.jeff=bones1.

[+Mad H@ter]

Well said Geoff, however you do worry me a bit with your count , you realy need to get out a bit more; oh you do get out a bit don't you .

 

Have a great new year and may all your logs be dry ones

[+mellers]

This is lovely, but please can I put out a request to anyone who replaces a log book without first having obtained the owners permission...

 

Please put a note on the cache page saying you have done so and offer to return the original to the CO.

 

Don't forget the log book is the only true record of who has visited the cache and simply to remove and destroy it without offering to return it may go against the wishes of some (although certainly not ALL) cachers. There have been occasions when I've had to do a tick-back of paper log names to on-line finds to help a TB owner find a missing trackable. This would not have been possible had someone removed the log. Be thoughtful of other CO's needs and at least make the offer in your "found it" log - even if they later contact you and say they don't need it... or even don't contact you at all.

 

Also, please don't get cross with a finder if they don't replace a full or damp log book. Even those of us who do replace them regularly occasionally go out without the correct-sized replacement books on them. Replacing the log book is after all, the COs responsibility, even if it is nice of us to help out when we can. And I do!

[+bones1]

oh dear it does get tricky,perhaps i should have told you i add a log book for one that is full or wet, jeff=bones1.

[+mellers]

If the old one is wet doesn't that just make the new one wet?

Yes, I often think more long-term as you have done, and have thought that would be a problem too. Quite often the container needs replacing for a more waterproof one which will cope with the demands of the situation too but not all COs are able to make the swap.

 

Whenever I replace a log I always wipe out the inside of the container and dry any swaps which are left inside with my handy geo-tissue I keep for just such eventualities. But when I see a really soggy log in a leaky container which is not necessarily right for the spot, I may not swap stuff out as I can see it getting in a state again very quickly.

 

I think each situation is different, but so long as a CO doesn't get grumpy with me for NOT swapping it out, it's all good. So far the swapping the log AND offering to return the original has worked well for me. Some COs ask for it back, some reply and say they don't want it, and some don't contact me at all... but at least I know I've offered.

[+eusty]

For me to replace one it depends on the CO, if they are active then I'll replace a soggy log and post a note on the cache page. If it's not local (i.e. don't know if they are active) then I'll probably post a NM log.

 

If CO's don't want/can't maintain caches then they shouldn't be kept on life support.....

 

[BOBBLES WORLD TOUR]

If the old one is wet doesn't that just make the new one wet?

 

Not if you replace with a new one in a nice plastic bag.

 

My link

Edited December 31, 2012 by JoLuc

[+Seaglass Pirates]

If we have some made up ready we will replace. Always post that we are happy to send/give original. We always replace if we can if its needed. We don't log a needs maintenance on the cache but we email the owner if we are unable to replace. We don't personally because in recent times it seems a bit over zealous. After I would assume the very wide advertisements of geocaching as a sport/hobby, many are taking it up. What they aren't doing is being sensible. Today locally I have read 5 logs of DNF's by people with 6, 5, 21, 120, and 15 finds. Each one has not been a me to find a cache and so has logged a needs maintenance AND infuriatingly state "clearly missing". While its a brilliant idea which I applaud to help out a CO and replace a log etc i also think the same help could be applied to us all by ensuring we email these log owners about common sense when we see these types of logs. I have (in a pleasant way) and the replies have been usually "oooops newbie mistake". Occasionally we have had abuse. Another new year resolution for us will be to be more forthcoming in emailing cachers who have 5 - 50 caches who have picked up our TB's and keep them for a month. We email and get ignored. Then another month goes by. We email again - still very politely and receive abuse. This has happened twice this year. And another two times the replies were brilliant. There is lots of things we could do to help. If we see someone has logged a cache with a note instead of a find, or they have logged a DNF but their log states they found it, we email them. So their cache count is accurate. We would be gutted if we realised later and our 1000dth cache became a magnetic nano on a pee stained lampost instead of the 5/5 canoo trip we made weeks of planning for. Just stuff like that.

 

Just our twopenneth.

[+Lorri-Ann & Kev]

I will replace wet or full logs for cache owners that appreciate it.

As for wet and soggy logs if i replace them,then it is a case of in the bin as the co would not be able to read the names anyway.

If you also get into the game of posting the co logbook back to them then this can be costly over the year.The trouble also is that there is far more cachers out there now that like to set trails but not maintain then.

that's my two pence worth.

 

kev

[+weston wanderer]

I also carry around a selection of logsheets and bags ready to replace those that are wet or full. I always offer to scan and email the logsheets to the owner which costs me nothing but my time. Almost invariably I get an email of thanks declining the offer. I was extremely grateful myself when a kind cacher replaced four of my logs on one of our series 14 miles away just before Christmas - it would have taken us half a day to drive over and walk around the circuit. It is such a small easy and inexpensive thing to do but I do think we are in the minority as I am usually alerted by a NM log.

[+thehoomer]

We have replaced log books if we have had a spare and the old one was mush/missing and have done so dozens of times. We have never sought the owner’s permission for this act and importantly, have never received any negative responses after doing so. Nowadays though, with so much cache saturation, we are a little more selective on replacing logs and usually only do so for caches which we have thought worthy for whatever reason. Many times over the years, strips of torn, tatty and smudged log book could be found drying out on my radiator. Ever since we started caching, we have always offered to send the CO the old log book (once dry) but have only ever been taken up on this once.

I agree with Lorri-Ann & Kev, it seems that the order of the day, is to set a cache or a series of caches and rather than maintain them, just archive them. This is almost always done without even paying a visit to the site to establish the status of the cache. Quite a good idea really, so much easier than spending a fortune on fuel and time. Just archive anything which needs maint or has had several DNF's. Sorry a bit off topic but as a conscientious maintainer but this does irk me some.

[+bazzer1975]

last year (2012) has been a bad year as far as weather, all i would say is please remember this before your needs archived and maintenance logs,

 

I carry some spare logs! If you can help another cache owner then I will. Ok, if they have abandoned caches then that's one thing but this is meant to be fun and some times people act too much as the cache police!!!

[+thehoomer]

last year (2012) has been a bad year as far as weather, all i would say is please remember this before your needs archived and maintenance logs,

 

I carry some spare logs! If you can help another cache owner then I will. Ok, if they have abandoned caches then that's one thing but this is meant to be fun and some times people act too much as the cache police!!!

If I am about to use my own resources/time to replace a mushed or missing log, I will make my own judgement and decide if it warrants my efforts. If you call this 'policing' the cache then I am pleased to be guilty. For instance, If I am completing a series of 20 caches and I get to #12 - #15 having experienced a high percentage of maintenance needed (and there is also evidence from past logs that it has been this way for a long time), I would not replace any of the logs. Selfish? Shortsighted? Selective? May be but that is my take. I don't mind helping out fellow cachers but I refuse to carry the idle ones .

[+Oxford Stone]

I will replace wet or full logs for cache owners that appreciate it.

As for wet and soggy logs if i replace them,then it is a case of in the bin as the co would not be able to read the names anyway.

 

kev

 

I'm glad someone said that! Went to a cache yesterday - the old 35mm film pot with not entirely waterproof lid. Online log has comments of damp log going back to last March. It was still in there, wringing wet and unusable (but there was a newer roll of paper in there too). Then Oxford Stone Junior sort of trod on it and it, well, disintegrated. So I binned it - using common sense. If the CO is upset - they need to keep an eye on their cache, surely that's all part of being a CO?

[+Mad H@ter]

last year (2012) has been a bad year as far as weather, all i would say is please remember this before your needs archived and maintenance logs,

 

I carry some spare logs! If you can help another cache owner then I will. Ok, if they have abandoned caches then that's one thing but this is meant to be fun and some times people act too much as the cache police!!!

But isn't that why we have a needs maintenance option. People should not be frightened of using them for whatever reason be it poor maintenance or unfortunate incidences, and certainly should not be accused of being cache police. If I can I will always try and repair a cache in poor condition but if unable to I will log a needs maintenance or a needs archiving if been like this for a long time.

I recently had a log on a cache ranting on about the wet log, well this was news to me as I had not had a needs maintenance log, not even from the ranter! I rectified this by raising a needs maintenance log on it myself so any visitors before I can maintain will be aware of its condition.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Mad H@ter

[+bazzer1975]

last year (2012) has been a bad year as far as weather, all i would say is please remember this before your needs archived and maintenance logs,

 

I carry some spare logs! If you can help another cache owner then I will. Ok, if they have abandoned caches then that's one thing but this is meant to be fun and some times people act too much as the cache police!!!

But isn't that why we have a needs maintenance option. People should not be frightened of using them for whatever reason be it poor maintenance or unfortunate incidences, and certainly should not be accused of being cache police. If I can I will always try and repair a cache in poor condition but if unable to I will log a needs maintenance or a needs archiving if been like this for a long time.

I recently had a log on a cache ranting on about the wet log, well this was news to me as I had not had a needs maintenance log, not even from the ranter! I rectified this by raising a needs maintenance log on it myself so any visitors before I can maintain will be aware of its condition.

 

Its that by what i mean by cache police people are always to quick to accuse people of bad maintenance oh its got a damp log but what people don't say is they got the log out in the poring rain dropped it on the floor then stuffed the soaking wet log back in the stash!!!

[+thehoomer]

last year (2012) has been a bad year as far as weather, all i would say is please remember this before your needs archived and maintenance logs,

 

I carry some spare logs! If you can help another cache owner then I will. Ok, if they have abandoned caches then that's one thing but this is meant to be fun and some times people act too much as the cache police!!!

But isn't that why we have a needs maintenance option. People should not be frightened of using them for whatever reason be it poor maintenance or unfortunate incidences, and certainly should not be accused of being cache police. If I can I will always try and repair a cache in poor condition but if unable to I will log a needs maintenance or a needs archiving if been like this for a long time.

I recently had a log on a cache ranting on about the wet log, well this was news to me as I had not had a needs maintenance log, not even from the ranter! I rectified this by raising a needs maintenance log on it myself so any visitors before I can maintain will be aware of its condition.

 

Its that by what i mean by cache police people are always to quick to accuse people of bad maintenance oh its got a damp log but what people don't say is they got the log out in the poring rain dropped it on the floor then stuffed the soaking wet log back in the stash!!!

I'm sure that this is the reason for some logs being damp but I'm reasonably confident that those which are mush (and have been reported as being so on several occasions), are due to poor or no maintenance. We are not the cache police for replacing such logs or indeed, pointing out that the CO is not doing right by his/her caches or the caching community.

[+bazzer1975]

Reread my 1st post ie the part where i put Ok, if they have abandoned caches then that's one thing

 

I have logged a needs archived log today more the fact of dangers but looking at the owner they have abandoned there caches!!

 

If a needs maintenance log appears on mine I do two things I look at who posted it and I look at the severity of the log if its mush I will disable it if its damp I will wait if its a DNF well that depends on the cache

 

One I have moved has had a few DNFs and not found for a while but I know its still there the cache in question is now underwater and likely it has floated off so next DNF that will be disabled and replaced in fact I am making a new one as we speak

[+thehoomer]

Reread my 1st post ie the part where i put Ok, if they have abandoned caches then that's one thing

 

I have logged a needs archived log today more the fact of dangers but looking at the owner they have abandoned there caches!!

 

If a needs maintenance log appears on mine I do two things I look at who posted it and I look at the severity of the log if its mush I will disable it if its damp I will wait if its a DNF well that depends on the cache

 

One I have moved has had a few DNFs and not found for a while but I know its still there the cache in question is now underwater and likely it has floated off so next DNF that will be disabled and replaced in fact I am making a new one as we speak

Id like to respond but I'm not sure how ?

I will attempt to elucidate.....

The point I am making is this: It is unjust to call cachers 'cache police' when they replace logs or bring to light a CO who isn't looking after their caches as they should. Simples .

[+bazzer1975]

Reread my 1st post ie the part where i put Ok, if they have abandoned caches then that's one thing

 

I have logged a needs archived log today more the fact of dangers but looking at the owner they have abandoned there caches!!

 

If a needs maintenance log appears on mine I do two things I look at who posted it and I look at the severity of the log if its mush I will disable it if its damp I will wait if its a DNF well that depends on the cache

 

One I have moved has had a few DNFs and not found for a while but I know its still there the cache in question is now underwater and likely it has floated off so next DNF that will be disabled and replaced in fact I am making a new one as we speak

Id like to respond but I'm not sure how ?

I will attempt to elucidate.....

The point I am making is this: It is unjust to call cachers 'cache police' when they replace logs or bring to light a CO who isn't looking after their caches as they should. Simples .

The Cache Police are the ones who have nothing better to do than moan at others caches making comments like i quote from another cacher who contacted me about another cacher:- Oh great all we need another rubbish series or leave negative feedback on every cache they find think they are better than every one else oh and slag others off behind there backs when they don't even know the person [] you know the type

[I!]

If a needs maintenance log appears on mine I do two things I look at who posted it and I look at the severity of the log if its mush I will disable it if its damp I will wait

Leaving your caches in a known-damp state isn't very nice for finders, is it?

[+bazzer1975]

If a needs maintenance log appears on mine I do two things I look at who posted it and I look at the severity of the log if its mush I will disable it if its damp I will wait

Leaving your caches in a known-damp state isn't very nice for finders, is it?

Its not but every time i go out to a damp log there is never anything wrong if it is wet that's another thing

 

there is a difference between can sign damp and wet not able to sign and the weather the way it is sorry its give and take

 

One other point to make is I always bag my logs the ones which normally have problems is because people don't place back in the bags,

 

Easy one don't look for my caches!!

[team tisri]

last year (2012) has been a bad year as far as weather, all i would say is please remember this before your needs archived and maintenance logs,

 

I carry some spare logs! If you can help another cache owner then I will. Ok, if they have abandoned caches then that's one thing but this is meant to be fun and some times people act too much as the cache police!!!

 

It's been an awful year for weather but that doesn't mean a cache that needs maintenance suddenly needs any less maintenance.

 

An NM log isn't an accusation of failure on the part of the cache owner, it's a means to alert them that their cache needs some TLC while also alerting potential future finders that something may not be right with the cache. Whether the maintenance required by the CO is verification that the cache is still there at all, a replacement container because the old one broke or nothing more than a fresh piece of paper, it tells future finders that this cache may be less enjoyable than others.

 

If the CO sees the NM log and performs maintenance the flag gets cleared so everyone knows it's good to go. If they fail to perform maintenance then sooner or later they will (deservedly) get a Needs Archived log. If a cache owner has dozens of caches and they all got soaked by recent weather it's easy enough to post a note to say something like "working through them, if anyone is passing and feels like helping me out I'd appreciate a new log being placed" or some such.

[team tisri]

last year (2012) has been a bad year as far as weather, all i would say is please remember this before your needs archived and maintenance logs,

 

I carry some spare logs! If you can help another cache owner then I will. Ok, if they have abandoned caches then that's one thing but this is meant to be fun and some times people act too much as the cache police!!!

But isn't that why we have a needs maintenance option. People should not be frightened of using them for whatever reason be it poor maintenance or unfortunate incidences, and certainly should not be accused of being cache police. If I can I will always try and repair a cache in poor condition but if unable to I will log a needs maintenance or a needs archiving if been like this for a long time.

I recently had a log on a cache ranting on about the wet log, well this was news to me as I had not had a needs maintenance log, not even from the ranter! I rectified this by raising a needs maintenance log on it myself so any visitors before I can maintain will be aware of its condition.

 

Its that by what i mean by cache police people are always to quick to accuse people of bad maintenance oh its got a damp log but what people don't say is they got the log out in the poring rain dropped it on the floor then stuffed the soaking wet log back in the stash!!!

 

This is nothing to do with being the "cache police". It's about letting a cache owner know that there's a problem with their cache so they can fix it.

 

I once logged Needs Maintenance on a cache because I'd dropped it. It was a nano behind one of those big green metal boxes in the road, just as I pulled it off the box I was startled by a passing muggle and dropped it, and being a dark coloured nano in a dark space filled with dark debris (leaves and other stuff) I couldn't see it. Because the cache now needed maintenance I logged Needs Maintenance on it so future finders would know. I also send a private message to the owner apologising for my hamfistedness and offering to fund a new container if required. It was entirely my fault that the cache needed maintenance, but the simple truth was that it needed maintenance.

 

If someone opens your cache in the pouring rain (which they may do) and then drops it in a puddle (which may happen) there's not a lot they can do about it there and then. They won't have a means of drying it out and sooner or later have to either put the cache back in a wet state or take it away with them. Either way, a Needs Maintenance log alerts you to the situation so you can fix it, and alerts others to the situation so they can either fix it for you if they are so minded, or avoid it until it's fixed, or at least be aware there's a problem with it.

Edited January 3, 2013 by team tisri

[+Mad H@ter]

Me thinks that you are way too sensitive bazzer1975, it's just a game and it's best to treat it as such. If people don't like your cache and leave a negative log, then so what, who is hurt? Either ignore it and accept that there taste in caches is different to yours or learn from it and improve your caches if required.

 

However it really is not helpful accusing people of being "Cache Police" for logging a needs maintenance. This puts people off of logging them, which is not good for caching. If COs don't know that there is a problem it's unlikely to get rectified.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Mad H@ter

[+bazzer1975]

Me thinks that you are way too sensitive bazzer1975, it's just a game and it's best to treat it as such. If people don't like your cache and leave a negative log, then so what, who is hurt? Either ignore it and accept that there taste in caches is different to yours or learn from it and improve your caches if required.

 

However it really is not helpful accusing people of being "Cache Police" for logging a needs maintenance. This puts people off of logging them, which is not good for caching. If COs don't know that there is a problem it's unlikely to get rectified.

Not sensitive anoyed by the way other Cachers slag of people they don't know I am big enof to sort my own problems but some people have really got up my nose with there attatude towards newbeys acting as cache police no wonder people use Facebook groups instead of coming on hear

 

On the + side after hijacking bones1 post, bones1 other than being a caching Legend I must say you write the nicest logs ever

[team tisri]

Me thinks that you are way too sensitive bazzer1975, it's just a game and it's best to treat it as such. If people don't like your cache and leave a negative log, then so what, who is hurt? Either ignore it and accept that there taste in caches is different to yours or learn from it and improve your caches if required.

 

However it really is not helpful accusing people of being "Cache Police" for logging a needs maintenance. This puts people off of logging them, which is not good for caching. If COs don't know that there is a problem it's unlikely to get rectified.

Not sensitive anoyed by the way other Cachers slag of people they don't know I am big enof to sort my own problems but some people have really got up my nose with there attatude towards newbeys acting as cache police no wonder people use Facebook groups instead of coming on hear

 

On the + side after hijacking bones1 post, bones1 other than being a caching Legend I must say you write the nicest logs ever

 

How did this turn from helping perform maintenance, go through a discussion of caches that need maintenance, to accusations of cachers who "slag of people"? How does telling someone their cache needs maintenance have anything to do with slagging them off?

[+Mart9012]

Crumbs, this is a troubled thread.

 

I love it that people carry spare logs and/or containers on them to help out owners. I'm thinking now that I might start doing the same as towards the end of last year I was finding a lot of washed out caches in decent containers that just weren't coping with the ridiculous weather. I was posting NMs purely to let the owner know how things were. I imagine a simple replacement of the log and a note to the owner does them quite a favour especially owners of big series! I tend to use the log system to make any comments about the cache, perhaps it has been placed away from it's intended location so the coordinates are out, or it's over a difficult to see broken fence and actually on private land. I like to log if a cache in a hawthorn hedge has cost me lots of blood and skin - not intending to be abusive but just to inform the cache owner.. How do we learn without feedback? As a relative newbie I love looking over old logs on some of the more difficult ones to get further hints and hate to see just a TFTC and naught else! I hope to set my own caches this year and am quite happy to receive constructive criticism or advice.