SGS3 didn't quite work out for me

[+SkipMorrow]

I have a Samsung Galaxy S3, which until yesterday I thought was a pretty good phone/GPS combination. Let me say that yesterday was also my very first geocache expedition ever. Anyway, I have been using my phone for general walking/driving navigation, and it has never failed me. So yesterday I was looking for something fun to do with my daughter who just turned 8 and we thought going on a treasure hunt would be fun. It was. We found a few caches without a hitch, but this one in particular really had us. We navigated to the exact spot using the Groundspeak GC app. When my position arrow was EXACTLY on top of the position icon, we were at the base of a tree among many other trees, and the ground was covered with pine straw. We started digging, but after about ten minutes still hadn't found it. I checked the GPS again, and we were like ten yards off, which was strange because we had stopped there because it was the EXACT position. So we moved again until it was the exact position. Or so we thought. Again, after a few minutes, we were no longer in the "right" position. It was like our position was moving, even though we weren't.

 

So, my question to the community is, is this normal for a smartphone, or more specifically for the SGS3? Is this something that I would expect to not happen with a good handheld GPS? It seems that just looking at pictures of handheld GPS units, the most predominant thing you see is the antenna, which they all have, but cell phones do not. Kind of tells you something that putting an accurate GPS in a cell phone just isn't going to happen.

 

Thoughts?

[tr_s]

and we were like ten yards off, which was strange because we had stopped there because it was the EXACT position. So we moved again until it was the exact position. Or so we thought. Again, after a few minutes, we were no longer in the "right" position. It was like our position was moving, even though we weren't.

 

Ten yards off is normal in a GPS context. If that's all position difference you saw, you have a good functioning GPS receiver. The GPS will only take you to the general location. Don't expect meter precision.

 

I have the Galaxy pocket 5300. It's slightly worse than the Garmin eTrex 30 especially if the view of the sky is obscured, but not very much so. Have used both to record tracks in paralell, what is very notable on the smartphone is worse elevation precision. XY position trails follow each other by mere meters.

Edited December 23, 2012 by tr_s

[+SkipMorrow]

Wow. I don't know how I could ever find that cache then. With a 10 meter/30 feet error radius, there is almost 3000 square feet of ground to search! I looked at all of the "obvious" hiding spots, but still didn't find it. There were some recent finds for it, but I guess it is possible that it was missing.

 

I think for now I will stick with my phone instead of plunking down a couple hundred on real GPS.

[tr_s]

Wow. I don't know how I could ever find that cache then. With a 10 meter/30 feet error radius, there is almost 3000 square feet of ground to search! I

 

Oh yes. You've just discovered one of the reasons for why geocaching can be considered a sport, and why "hints" exist! Of course it helps if both the hider and finder have had good GPS devices though.

[+splashy]

Load the free app called Gps Test, this gives you a clear sight what sats you are seeing and what accuracy you have.

 

BTW the minimal minimal position error is 7 feet for consumer Ggs'es. thats if the hider did an average of the hiding place and you have a good reception.

The GS3 works like a charm and not worse than a Garmin Montana.

 

If all caches where GS it would be to easy, don't you think?

[+Team CowboyPapa]

That which is also a consideration is the cache owner's GPSr accuracy.

[+SkipMorrow]

I have used GPS Test, and it looks like my GPS is fine. I think it really just comes down to this is the way GPS works.

 

I am still interested in knowing if there is much functional difference (i.e., accuracy, or some other measurable metric) between smart phone GPS and handheld "real" GPS receivers.

 

Thanks for all the feedback!

 

Skip

[+Team CowboyPapa]

My phone with GPS also has Google Earth on it and my real GPSr has arial photo imagery on it.

With one in one hand and the other in the other, I stand in the middle of my 12' wide driveway and check them out.

How simple is that?

[+Bear and Ragged]

Also, consider that the cache may not be at ground level... (caches are NEVER buried)

It could be in the tree high above ground level.

[+Walts Hunting]

Being undercover in a forest adversely affects the gps accuracy.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

Load the free app called Gps Test, this gives you a clear sight what sats you are seeing and what accuracy you have.

 

BTW the minimal minimal position error is 7 feet for consumer Ggs'es. thats if the hider did an average of the hiding place and you have a good reception.

The GS3 works like a charm and not worse than a Garmin Montana.

 

If all caches where GS it would be to easy, don't you think?

 

I would agree with the 7 feet....many times I'm closer.

If 30 feet were the norm I'd have a LOT more DNF's.....maybe take up golf.

[team tisri]

A couple of thoughts.

 

If you're new to this, were you looking for a traditional cache (one with a green box as the icon)? If you were looking for a multi (yellow boxes) then the first stage might be anything from a physical box to a sign or some such; if you were looking for a mystery (blue ?) then the cache won't be at the posted coordinates at all. I raise that because a couple of friends of mine looked for their first cache only to find nothing there and I later discovered they were hunting a mystery at the posted coordinates.

 

As others have said a cache might be at ground level, it might be in a hole in the bark of a tree, it might be high up the tree. Check the difficulty and terrain levels - if the terrain is 1 then you should be able to reach it from a wheelchair but if it's 5 then chances are you're going to have to climb a tree. If the difficulty is 1 you should be able to find it easily; if the difficulty is 5 then expect something well camoflaged that you're going to have to take a long time hunting and thinking outside the box.

 

A bit of drift is perfectly normal, and you also have to consider when the cache was set. If it's an older cache it's likely the cache hider was using a GPS that's simple by today's standards and maybe not as accurate. If it's a newer cache then hopefully the hider had a decent system to locate the coordinates but every once in a while someone hides a cache based on mobile phone triangulation and ends up out by several hundred feet.

[Forkeye]

Once you have found a few caches you might start to see things like a detective,..ie: where would you hide a cache?..in a natural hollow of a tree or stump,under something..what doesnt look right? nature doesnt leave pieces of wood all lined up to cover something..eventually things stick out from a distance and then maybe like me all you might look for are puzzle caches because the norm is now too easy,thats why I dont understand the need for 1-3 meter accuracy.If I can walk right to it so all I have to do is bend down and pick it up,then its kind of lost its fun for me.

[+Genoist]

Heh, I remember when it was good to have a GPSr show less than 60 feet while standing on top of the cache. I'd consider 30' to be excellent.

[+LostMontanan]

I had two GS3's and they were both POS. Sold my second one yesterday and am going back to an iPhone 4S.

[+splashy]

It's hard for some people to adapt to an Android after they used an Iphone, but thats more the user than the phone, both systems are very good.

And there must be many tens of thousands geocaching with any phone and they are fine, it's just sometimes the expectations are too hight.

As Genoist wrote, until a few years ago, 60 feet standing on a cache was good (that's 120 feet cicle) and now we complain.

If you expect the phone (or gpsr) will bring you GS on a cache, why would you cache at all?

Ya right, you need to go and find the next cache, because there's another 50 or so to 'find'.

[+SkipMorrow]

An update. Today I went looking for a GPS benchmark: http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=FX0323

 

I found it, but it wasn't easy. I basically found it by reading the survey notes. I couldn't find it by GPS alone. Here's a picture:

 

The stated GPS coordinates are

N 36° 45.050 W 076° 20.667

 

I found it at

N 36° 45.048 W 076° 20.703

 

With my phone reporting an excellent fix (3m error & 19/21 satellites).

 

The distance between those two points is 176 feet! (according to http://boulter.com/gps/distance/?from=N+36+45.050+W+076+20.667&to=N+36+45.048+W+076+20.703&units=m)

 

I am pretty sure that either I am doing something wrong, or my phone's GPS isn't with the pine straw around the benchmark.

[majormajor42]

My SG3 GPS was great for about 5 months. It started to get fuzzy around Thanksgiving. It now won't work at all which is unfortunate since I also enjoy using Waze when driving. Trying different reboots and apps. no luck. I still have my Garmin handheld, which is flawless so I'm not out of complete luck when caching. My old Motorola Droid X wasn't perfect. Sometimes needed a restart to get the GPS narrowed in but it would get there. This SG3 is lost.

[+Walts Hunting]

I generally use my Montana since I am usually hiking or biking bu ttoday i had some free time while waiting for my wife to get a massage in Lake Havasu so I took out the S3 and tried it out. I used both the froggie's app and Locus Pro. Both of them took me to within about 15' of all the caches. The arrow on the froggies app was not as steady as Locus but all in all just fine.

[+SkipMorrow]

I think I see the error of my ways. This particular benchmark has a horizontal location that is "scaled", rather than "adjusted". Scaled markers can be way off, according the the FAQ. I guess I should have read it first

[+BlackRose67]

I have the original SGS and the GPS in it was horrible until I tweaked (rooted phone) the GPS configuration file to make it use settings specific to Canada.

 

Once I did that, the results were better but still not as accurate as my eTrex 20 with GPS+GLONASS+WAAS.