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Cache in a Rat Bait Station


Ma & Pa

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And just how is a rat bait station without bait so different from an ammo can without the ammo?

 

It's highly unlikely that someone would stumble upon an ammo box full of ammo. Once this hide becomes copied a few times some cachers will then start opening up active traps. :D

 

Patterns like this usually develop from the first few which are obviously caches with labels or part of a theme, then they evolve on to others without any obvious indicators. The first few get fav points for being creative which then encourage the others. If done correctly it could be funny, but most would be a bad idea.

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people take kids caching, doesnt this teach younger kids to mess with potentially dangerous stuff.

my vote is that its a poor choice for a container

 

Not that they're the most dangerous places to hide a cache but,,, But i have to wonder, why do so many cachers think LPCs are appropriate hiding spots?

 

First, they are most likely hidden on private property without permission.

Second, they can actually be dangerous, even for adults, given the right circumstances. (ie: finding while a light is energized which has deteriorated/broken insulation)

Third, a cacher hiding or finding these are tampering with, sometimes scratching paint off, sometimes messing up the covers, etc,,,.

 

So, it's ok to teach our kids that finding caches hidden in this manner are ok?

 

By the way,,

 

Walmart cache

 

Caching at 3 AM opens up a whole new ball game. A few local cachers who worked the night shift once got upset with me because twice police stopped them between 2 and 3 AM while caching. At that hour the fact that a cache has permission to be placed doesn't matter to police. The vast majority of caches should not be attempted at night unless you feel like talking to authorities...as a rule we don't cache at night but of the few times we have, over 50 % of the time we have been stopped by police.

 

Doesn't matter to me if i get stopped by police more at night. I have nothing to hide if i'm looking for a cache that has permission and is in an area that i'm allowed to visit at that time of night. The police would check me out then most likely tell me to have a good night. Day or night, the problem was that the walmart cache above was placed without permission.

 

I agree that the rat bait station hide is not a good hide either. I would figure in most cases, that it's probably hidden on private proerty without permission. Other than that, it's probably a bit better hide than an lpc since it's not the private property owner's parking lot equipment that's being utilized. They both have safety concerns of course.

 

Just not understanding why a rat bait box hide would be any more of a concern than an lpc with the inherent problems it can cause.

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Looks like a NA should be added to Walmart cache

 

As others have said, new cachers see something done a particular way,and assume that is the way they should do it. One day it's LPC at WalMart, next it's a Poison Rat Trap in an alley..... what's next?

 

But which is worse? Hiding a LPC on commercial property without permission? Or seeking one after the store is closed? Common sense says that someone is going to question why you are there 4 hours after all the employees and customers have left. :rolleyes:

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Looks like a NA should be added to Walmart cache

 

As others have said, new cachers see something done a particular way,and assume that is the way they should do it. One day it's LPC at WalMart, next it's a Poison Rat Trap in an alley..... what's next?

 

But which is worse? Hiding a LPC on commercial property without permission? Or seeking one after the store is closed? Common sense says that someone is going to question why you are there 4 hours after all the employees and customers have left. :rolleyes:

 

This is a walmart that stays open 24 hours. Anyone can park in that parking lot and go into the store at 3 in the morning if they want.

 

Edited to say that i would have contacted the cache owner if it had been me that got stopped by the store manager. Then if the owner didn't do anything to correct the situation, i'd log a na on the cache.

Edited by Mudfrog
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Looks like a NA should be added to Walmart cache

 

As others have said, new cachers see something done a particular way,and assume that is the way they should do it. One day it's LPC at WalMart, next it's a Poison Rat Trap in an alley..... what's next?

 

But which is worse? Hiding a LPC on commercial property without permission? Or seeking one after the store is closed? Common sense says that someone is going to question why you are there 4 hours after all the employees and customers have left. :rolleyes:

 

Maybe Walmart stores are run differently in your area, but in Walmarts here there is a whole night crew of stockers, maintenance and cleaning employees.

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Just not understanding why a rat bait box hide would be any more of a concern than an lpc with the inherent problems it can cause.

We deplore LPCs, but the rat bait box, once found, justifies opening rat bait boxes whenever in the vicinity of GZ. That is an extremely bad precedent. Yes, LPCs can be dangerous. The debate about electrocution is endless. But rat bait? Do we really need to discuss?

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The cache was not dangerous because it only contained a fake mouse and a small container with a log sheet. I did not think it was an appropriate place for a cache. Any comments?

I guess I'd first have to ask you how you know that it contained those things? If you found the cache to be so inappropriate, why did you dig into it in the first place?

 

Aside from that, I would have to agree with you that it probably is not appropriate. I have been tempted to dig into a couple of them, but quickly decided that it either wasn't the cache, or that if it was, I was willing to take a DNF for it. Apparently you weren't as willing.

The picture is not the actual cache but is picture I found of the container that was used. I often saw those containers when we cached in California and I never tried to open them, even if it meant a DNF. I do not ever recall seeing one around our area.

 

In this case, we spent about 10 minutes looking around an area where there were no good hiding spots. We had completely ignored the bait station, not even thinking it could be the cache. Finally, I got tempted to check it and I daintily touched it and it easily opened. I guess I tried it because we had never seen one around here, and it seemed out of place.

 

I wasn't asking where you found the picture. My point was that you still went ahead and opened a cache (and I presume, logged a Find) that you are now reporting as possibly inappropriate. Please don't take this wrong, but it strikes me as being a bit like somebody watching an entire movie before declaring it pornographic.

 

How could they complain about it if they didn't know it was a rat trap?

How could they know it was a rat trap if they didn't find it?

Why would they not log it once they found it?

 

It would make no sense to complain about it if they hadn't found it and weren't sure of the container it was in. Now that they know, I'm glad they are bringing it up. I find it a very inappropriate container.

 

I think this definitely goes under the "Dangerous cache" clause.

I do not think we should be teaching children to try to open rat traps or to poke around in the openings of them to see if a cache is there.

Edited by Sol seaker
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Just not understanding why a rat bait box hide would be any more of a concern than an lpc with the inherent problems it can cause.

 

The difference is one in a hundred thousand light posts might have electrical issues.

EVERY SINGLE rat bait trap is going to have dangerous poisons in it.

A lot of them have arsenic. That will cause brain damage in low doses. High doses will kill you.

 

So a little kid learns to check rat bait traps, opens a real one when the parent isn't looking and gets it all over his hands. Or maybe he and a parent search a few of them together. Later he goes and eats french fries at McDonalds. You don't see a problem with that?

 

Children geocache. They are a lot more susceptible to toxins than adults. We need to not be exposing our children needlessly to poison.

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Looks like a NA should be added to Walmart cache

 

As others have said, new cachers see something done a particular way,and assume that is the way they should do it. One day it's LPC at WalMart, next it's a Poison Rat Trap in an alley..... what's next?

 

But which is worse? Hiding a LPC on commercial property without permission? Or seeking one after the store is closed? Common sense says that someone is going to question why you are there 4 hours after all the employees and customers have left. :rolleyes:

 

This is a walmart that stays open 24 hours. Anyone can park in that parking lot and go into the store at 3 in the morning if they want.

 

Edited to say that i would have contacted the cache owner if it had been me that got stopped by the store manager. Then if the owner didn't do anything to correct the situation, i'd log a na on the cache.

 

It appears that they closed 3 hours before the visit.

 

1350 N Main St, Vidor, TX

Hours of Operation: Monday - Friday : 6: 00 am - 12: 00 am

(409) 769-6233

 

Just because the overnight stockers are there doesn't imply that it's okay to act suspicious in the parking lot.

 

Google street view shows it away from the store anyhow, and very close to the street, accessible from the business next door's parking area.

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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Just not understanding why a rat bait box hide would be any more of a concern than an lpc with the inherent problems it can cause.

 

The difference is one in a hundred thousand light posts might have electrical issues.

EVERY SINGLE rat bait trap is going to have dangerous poisons in it.

A lot of them have arsenic. That will cause brain damage in low doses. High doses will kill you.

Traps used as caches don't have poison in them. And just opening one doesn't mean you will be handling the poison - if the poison could get all over the place, the trap itself would contaminate the area, and would be dangerous - the poison is in something the rat will eat, NOT loose in the trap.

 

So a little kid learns to check rat bait traps, opens a real one when the parent isn't looking and gets it all over his hands. Or maybe he and a parent search a few of them together. Later he goes and eats french fries at McDonalds. You don't see a problem with that?

I was taught to wash my hands before eating, and assume parents teach that today, so I don't see the problem.

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If I had'nt found it, I'd log a DNF, and move on. If I did find it (not common here, so I'd poke it with a stick), I'd still log the find with only a TFTC, and then NA.

 

On what grounds would you log a NA? What guideline is being violated?

 

I must be missing the sarcasm in this post.

Edited by gustav129
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Looks like a NA should be added to Walmart cache

 

As others have said, new cachers see something done a particular way,and assume that is the way they should do it. One day it's LPC at WalMart, next it's a Poison Rat Trap in an alley..... what's next?

 

But which is worse? Hiding a LPC on commercial property without permission? Or seeking one after the store is closed? Common sense says that someone is going to question why you are there 4 hours after all the employees and customers have left. :rolleyes:

 

This is a walmart that stays open 24 hours. Anyone can park in that parking lot and go into the store at 3 in the morning if they want.

 

Edited to say that i would have contacted the cache owner if it had been me that got stopped by the store manager. Then if the owner didn't do anything to correct the situation, i'd log a na on the cache.

 

It appears that they closed 3 hours before the visit.

 

1350 N Main St, Vidor, TX

Hours of Operation: Monday - Friday : 6: 00 am - 12: 00 am

(409) 769-6233

 

Just because the overnight stockers are there doesn't imply that it's okay to act suspicious in the parking lot.

 

Google street view shows it away from the store anyhow, and very close to the street, accessible from the business next door's parking area.

 

Oooops, i thought i had shopped that particular store that early in the morning a while back.

 

Still, whether the store is open or closed, it's a bad hiding spot if that business hasn't given permission. Day or night, finders lifting lamp post skirts will most likely look supiscious if seen by a person not familiar with geocaching.

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Just not understanding why a rat bait box hide would be any more of a concern than an lpc with the inherent problems it can cause.

 

The difference is one in a hundred thousand light posts might have electrical issues.

EVERY SINGLE rat bait trap is going to have dangerous poisons in it.

A lot of them have arsenic. That will cause brain damage in low doses. High doses will kill you.

 

So a little kid learns to check rat bait traps, opens a real one when the parent isn't looking and gets it all over his hands. Or maybe he and a parent search a few of them together. Later he goes and eats french fries at McDonalds. You don't see a problem with that?

 

Children geocache. They are a lot more susceptible to toxins than adults. We need to not be exposing our children needlessly to poison.

 

As i said above, i don't think a rat bait station type hide is a good hide. As with many a cache that i've come across, it's one that can be of a safety concern. But, if i came across one of these while caching with my 5 year old, it just wouldn't be that big a deal.

 

From what i understand, an actual working bait station isn't going to be easy to get into. To me, it's similar to finding a cache in many places where you can't see the container right away. I wouldn't blindly stick my hand inside of anything (dark place, hole in a tree, in a pipe) when looking for a cache. If i did somehow make the mistake of opening up one being used with bait, then i'd just close it back up and then, maybe, go wash my hands to be on the safe side. Whether it was a cache or not, i'd make sure to tell my daughter what it was and not to go around manhandling the things.

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I was taught to wash my hands before eating, and assume parents teach that today, so I don't see the problem.
Because arsenic, (a common ingredient in rat trap poisons), can be absorbed through the skin?
Even if the poison cannot be absorbed through the skin, kids tend to touch things, then touch their faces. That's part of why colds spread so quickly from one kid to another. Even if they wash their hands before eating, they've already touched their eyes, mouths, noses, chins, etc.

 

As for GOF and Bacall's question, I'd question whether there was adequate permission. The "dangerous items" clause could also be relevant, since non-geocachers could see people repeatedly "tampering" with what looks like a rat bait station. That would appear very dangerous to such bystanders.

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I don't think this is a good idea for a geocache, especially in an urban environment. It's easy to see how this could be held up as a violation of the guidelines section quoted on page 1 of this thread. And it sets a very bad precedent.

 

I can maybe see how hiding it in the woods and changing the markings to make it obvious it's safe (or at least a joke) would be a more innocent use. But then, I've read on the boards about at least one case when a CO thought hiding a cache camo'd as a fake bomb in the woods was funny, and the authorities disagreed.

 

And just how is a rat bait station without bait so different from an ammo can without the ammo?

 

Ammunition is dangerous when the percussion cap is struck hard enough, or the round is heated enough, to ignite the primer and propellant inside the cartridge. It's safe enough to pick up with your bare hands, that's how you load a magazine. Rat poison, on the other hand, not safe to handle with your bare hands.

 

I was taught to wash my hands before eating, and assume parents teach that today, so I don't see the problem.

 

Well, yeah, me too, and I was also taught not to play with rat traps or handle dangerous chemicals with my bare hands. But I can see kids who aren't old enough to know better yet being led astray by caches like this. (As well as cachers who are old enough to know better but do it anyway.)

Edited by hzoi
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The first time I ever saw one of those rat bait boxes, I wondered why there was a big plastic box next to the building on the walkway. By the markings and the rat-sized hole, I realized it was some kind of rodent control device (these aren't “traps”).

 

Label it “Geocache”, and if it's out in the open like that, it's not gonna last. You'd have to put it in an unlikely spot as mentioned, in which case, it's less of a “surprise fake rat trap in plain view”, more of a “cache box”. Leave it labeled “Poison” and Geocachers should steer clear of it. It can work in specially chosen places. It won't work if you don't put a lot of thought into the placement.

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I don't think this is a good idea for a geocache, especially in an urban environment. It's easy to see how this could be held up as a violation of the guidelines section quoted on page 1 of this thread. And it sets a very bad precedent.

 

I can maybe see how hiding it in the woods and changing the markings to make it obvious it's safe (or at least a joke) would be a more innocent use. But then, I've read on the boards about at least one case when a CO thought hiding a cache camo'd as a fake bomb in the woods was funny, and the authorities disagreed.

 

And just how is a rat bait station without bait so different from an ammo can without the ammo?

 

Ammunition is dangerous when the percussion cap is struck hard enough, or the round is heated enough, to ignite the propellant inside the cartridge. It's safe enough to pick up with your bare hands, that's how you load a magazine. Rat poison, on the other hand, not safe to handle with your bare hands.

 

I was taught to wash my hands before eating, and assume parents teach that today, so I don't see the problem.

 

I was also taught not to play with rat traps or handle dangerous chemicals with my bare hands.

 

It's not play for many. Finding every cache is serious business these days. If this were a "take responsibility for your own actions" world, a person would use their common sense and make a logical decision on whether to search or just walk away when they came up on this or any other cache they perceived as being dangerous. Unfortunately, this doesn't work when a person has that SAAC mentality.

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Looks like a NA should be added to Walmart cache

 

As others have said, new cachers see something done a particular way,and assume that is the way they should do it. One day it's LPC at WalMart, next it's a Poison Rat Trap in an alley..... what's next?

 

But which is worse? Hiding a LPC on commercial property without permission? Or seeking one after the store is closed? Common sense says that someone is going to question why you are there 4 hours after all the employees and customers have left. :rolleyes:

 

This is a walmart that stays open 24 hours. Anyone can park in that parking lot and go into the store at 3 in the morning if they want.

 

Edited to say that i would have contacted the cache owner if it had been me that got stopped by the store manager. Then if the owner didn't do anything to correct the situation, i'd log a na on the cache.

 

It appears that they closed 3 hours before the visit.

 

1350 N Main St, Vidor, TX

Hours of Operation: Monday - Friday : 6: 00 am - 12: 00 am

(409) 769-6233

 

Just because the overnight stockers are there doesn't imply that it's okay to act suspicious in the parking lot.

 

Google street view shows it away from the store anyhow, and very close to the street, accessible from the business next door's parking area.

 

Oooops, i thought i had shopped that particular store that early in the morning a while back.

 

Still, whether the store is open or closed, it's a bad hiding spot if that business hasn't given permission. Day or night, finders lifting lamp post skirts will most likely look supiscious if seen by a person not familiar with geocaching.

 

That's true, but there are thousands of caches that meet that criteria. This spot is open to the public, and usually will not cause any problems if found during business hours. Since the security guard knows about it and does not want it, perhaps it should be archived. However, it is nearly off of their property and close to the road, and not likely to cause any further problems.

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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Just not understanding why a rat bait box hide would be any more of a concern than an lpc with the inherent problems it can cause.

 

O

The difference is one in a hundred thousand light posts might have electrical issues.

EVERY SINGLE rat bait trap is going to have dangerous poisons in it.

A lot of them have arsenic. That will cause brain damage in low doses. High doses will kill you.

Traps used as caches don't have poison in them. And just opening one doesn't mean you will be handling the poison - if the poison could get all over the place, the trap itself would contaminate the area, and would be dangerous - the poison is in something the rat will eat, NOT loose in the trap.

 

So a little kid learns to check rat bait traps, opens a real one when the parent isn't looking and gets it all over his hands. Or maybe he and a parent search a few of them together. Later he goes and eats french fries at McDonalds. You don't see a problem with that?

I was taught to wash my hands before eating, and assume parents teach that today, so I don't see the problem.

 

That's a pretty big assumption that you're betting a kids health on. I know a whole lot of adults who don't wash their hands before they eat.

I know many times when I'm out in the car all day and don't get a chance to.

I've seen parents who bother with their kids so little I'd be really surprised if they told them to wash their hands.

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il_570xN.399669965_elit.jpg

 

how about this one

 

A bad idea, and probably against the guidelines.

Yeah, probably so. Though I would argue that it would be no more, nor less, against the guidelines than the aforementioned fake rat trap. Neither are capable of causing harm, and to anyone even passingly familiar with those two objects, it is obvious that they are harmless. So it falls to the "perceived to be dangerous" portion of the guidelines. By someone who had little or no experience with those two objects, they could, conceivably be "perceived" as harmful. The fake rat trap might even win the battle for perceived hazards, as even the dullest crayon could tell at a glance that the grenade is fake.

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What about this one? :huh:

 

 

Sweet! I remember pictures of another one, several years back, that was out in the southwestern desert somewhere, but this one is much better made! Is this a permanant cache somewhere, or just an event cache?

 

As far as I know, it's a cache somewhere in a Michigan state park. I dont think anyone should post the name, as it would be a spoiler.

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The Grenade is pushing the limits. I would only do that if it was on my own property, or if I had permission to put on at an Army-Navy Surplus store.

 

 

The place selling the grenade tries to balance it with some christian geocaches

 

il_570xN.399651096_5dyp.jpg

Is it The Holy Hand Grenade?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

B)

 

 

 

 

 

 

:ph34r:

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The Grenade is pushing the limits. I would only do that if it was on my own property, or if I had permission to put on at an Army-Navy Surplus store.

 

 

The place selling the grenade tries to balance it with some christian geocaches

 

 

I suppose they are trying to be mildly offensive. I know if there were caches with Muslim, Jewish, or 666 and pentagram symbolism on them, they would be considered offensive by the same people who put those out. :rolleyes: The hand grenade may look obvious to most people, but considering the panic caused by PVC pipes, they are a bad idea also.

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I suppose they are trying to be mildly offensive. I know if there were caches with Muslim, Jewish, or 666 and pentagram symbolism on them, they would be considered offensive by the same people who put those out.

 

I suppose they could be expressing a sincere thought or opinion.

 

It could be, but since the same place is also cooincidentally selling fake hand grenades, perhaps it's more that they don't care if they are mildly offensive. It kind of reminds me of a past poster who was using a dead fetus as an avatar. There is a fine line between expressing thoughts and pushing beliefs. it's not really the content, but rather trying to force feed someone is what tends to annoy. It doesn't bother me, but in the past others have expressed distaste. Symbol worship is getting quite popular these days.

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