MIssing Bugs in Caches - I'm done with it

[+BlueDeuce]

Bugs go missing. I can deal with that. I can even deal with telling people how to best prevent any bugs from going missing and what to do when it happens.

 

But when it comes to clean up I'm done banging my head against a wall. Not enough want to take it on, bug and cache owners alike, and even more don't want to see anything automated.

 

Don't explain to me why you or anyone should have to move them out. I've heard it already.

 

The deal is I'm going to tell people when they ask about so many missing bugs. Nobody cares, including me.

 

--

 

In reflection - My deepest and most heartfelt respect and admiration to Eartha, someone who cares even more than I do and does more than anyone else. Good luck cuz I'm on the other side now.

Edited December 16, 2012 by BlueDeuce

[+kunarion]

But when it comes to clean up I'm done banging my head against a wall. Not enough want to take it on, bug and cache owners alike, and even more don't want to see anything automated.

I like accuracy. If the TB isn't there, the inventory shouldn't show that it is.

 

Yet, if the the bug owner (or even the cache owner) doesn't want to mark it missing, that doesn't bother me at all. Maybe they aren't ready to face the loss just yet, or maybe they want to leave the hole as kind of a warning. Or maybe they just plain don't care. But it's neither the CO's nor the TO's fault that the cache is empty. So I'm willing to give them a pass. And if I do happen to find a TB, I'll move it along.

Edited December 16, 2012 by kunarion

[+BlueDeuce]

But when it comes to clean up I'm done banging my head against a wall. Not enough want to take it on, bug and cache owners alike, and even more don't want to see anything automated.

I like accuracy. If the TB isn't there, the inventory shouldn't show that it is.

 

Yet, if the the bug owner (or even the cache owner) doesn't want to mark it missing, that doesn't bother me at all. Maybe they aren't ready to face the loss just yet, or maybe they want to leave the hole as kind of a warning. Or maybe they just plain don't care. But it's neither the CO's nor the TO's fault that the cache is empty. So I'm willing to give them a pass. And if I do happen to find a TB, I'll move it along.

 

Thank you for sharing.

[+RIclimber]

I don't think a bug should show up in the first place. It can be a surprise when you open the container. Let the logging stay the same, still have the bug page list what cache it's in.

Why do you need to know that there's a TB in the cache, other then to steal it?

[+storchburp]

I don't think a bug should show up in the first place. It can be a surprise when you open the container. Let the logging stay the same, still have the bug page list what cache it's in.

Why do you need to know that there's a TB in the cache, other then to steal it?

 

Agreed. I suspect that the listing of TBs is resulting in members signing up just to pinch them. All too often I'm reading logs where a trackable has disappeared between two consecutive Found Its

[+dcj99b]

Hi

I am starting a discussion about a Lost Travel Bug Hotel.

As missing TBs and GeoCoins that have been missing for over a yearand reported several times with no action by the owner or cache owner, I think we need to collect these Trackables into a lost area.

What do people think?

ttfn Derek

[J'nK]

So what exactly was the straw that broke the camels back?

 

As for bugs it sure drives me up the way that a ton of caches in my area say there are bugs in them when in fact they have walked off long ago & no matter how many times someone mentions they are not there never marked missing.

[+The Blorenges]

Bugs go missing. I can deal with that. I can even deal with telling people how to best prevent any bugs from going missing and what to do when it happens.

 

But when it comes to clean up I'm done banging my head against a wall. Not enough want to take it on, bug and cache owners alike, and even more don't want to see anything automated.

 

Don't explain to me why you or anyone should have to move them out. I've heard it already.

 

The deal is I'm going to tell people when they ask about so many missing bugs. Nobody cares, including me.

 

--

 

In reflection - My deepest and most heartfelt respect and admiration to Eartha, someone who cares even more than I do and does more than anyone else. Good luck cuz I'm on the other side now.

 

Empathy, Empathy.

 

I've just commented on the other Topic about all the missing trackables showing in cache inventories. Maybe someone will go along and 'bump' my suggestion for the semi-automated way to get those "ghosts" exorcised. You know I've been rabbitting on about it for over a year now since I first posted my idea.

 

I'm feeling more and more the general apathy around all matters to do with trackables - from disappointed cachers whose items have swiftly gone missing, from disappointed cachers who go to retrieve a trackable only to find "ghosts", from cachers who've reported blatant virtual logging (in various forms) and no action is taken... There seems to be less care and concern. It's such a pity.

 

You, and Eartha, and a few other regulars on the forums have done their best to give advice and help out by solving problems and making suggestions but it's becoming more and more difficult to stay positive about All Things Trackable.

 

Yeah. I empathise.

 

 

MrsB

Edited December 16, 2012 by The Blorenges

[+BlueDeuce]

So what exactly was the straw that broke the camels back?

 

I was going to post a suggestion about getting bugs out and I realized while I might get a few here to agree with me, it wouldn't do anything to help whatsoever. And after trying for this long ain't nothing going to change.

Edited December 16, 2012 by BlueDeuce

[+kunarion]

I don't think a bug should show up in the first place. It can be a surprise when you open the container. Let the logging stay the same, still have the bug page list what cache it's in.

Why do you need to know that there's a TB in the cache, other then to steal it?

 

Agreed. I suspect that the listing of TBs is resulting in members signing up just to pinch them. All too often I'm reading logs where a trackable has disappeared between two consecutive Found Its

Yes, at least it would reduce the logs about “TBs are listed, but none are there”. It is worrisome how many threads there are around here by people furious that they wasted a 5 hour drive to grab a really cool coin, to *ahem* diligently log it and place it into another cache within 2 weeks . So I understand the idea about hiding the lists. But I also use those lists to decide where to place a TB. A major cause of Trackables going missing, is the container being used as a communal toy box by neighbor kids, no “list” needed.

 

Anyway, if cache pages no longer listed TBs, I'd expect other cachers will take up the slack. You'd see more logs that include the current number of Trackables (maybe not the specific ones), so thieves would still know which caches to try. And with less info available, TBs could go missing with fewer people knowing what's going on.

 

One reason any plan to keep caches accurate will fail, is the fact that cache inventories are not kept accurate. It's a Catch-22. I had a languishing TB, asked if it was still there, and was told by two people at once, “No it definitely is gone” and “Yes it's still there” . Which is it? Do I mark it Missing? If the toy is gone but the tag remains in the container, it's not considered “missing”, but requires a thorough search to be certain. Marking it “Missing” due to the container not being searched well is like having no list at all, plus it places the TB into limbo.

 

It's not that I don't care, it's the fact that it becomes impossible to know what the status of a TB is. There is an option: Leave it as it was last logged. If Geocachers prefer accurate TB status, they must make accurate logs.

 

It's frustrating that the lists are wrong, but it can't be fixed by the people who make the lists wrong. If it could, it would be fixed by now. You'd depend on an elite group that would comb through the containers and correct the errors, someone other than the ones that created the mess. And that could be done today, no new systems needed, just some cachers to go fix the lists. And it doesn't involve only Marking Things Missing, also "Mark" the existing ones where they actually are.

Edited December 16, 2012 by kunarion

[+kunarion]

a ton of caches in my area say there are bugs in them when in fact they have walked off long ago & no matter how many times someone mentions they are not there never marked missing.

Somebody removes a TB, somebody else hides the evidence. That sounds like a plan.

Edited December 16, 2012 by kunarion

[+Lieblweb]

If these things frustrate you that much... Perhaps you should find another hobby.

 

There's no way you'll ever get this game as perfectly documented as you think it should be. You're better off playing the game as you want/expect it to be played and move on. And by documenting your own game properly, that someone will learn by example.

 

I get enough stress at work.... The last thing I need is to elevate my own blood pressure because of things I directly can't control.

 

This is supposed to be fun....

[+kunarion]

If these things frustrate you that much... Perhaps you should find another hobby.

 

There's no way you'll ever get this game as perfectly documented as you think it should be. You're better off playing the game as you want/expect it to be played and move on. And by documenting your own game properly, that someone will learn by example.

 

I get enough stress at work.... The last thing I need is to elevate my own blood pressure because of things I directly can't control.

 

This is supposed to be fun....

Aha! You're one of those guys that don't care!*

 

Have you noticed that, after a day of caching, it requires a long time to log a couple of TBs? First I have to plan the photos at the caches, before I ever log the TBs. Then I have to decide the sequence of logs – must “Retrieve” them to “Visit” them in the next few caches before the log for placing them. Then I re-size my photos (the web site cannot resize to produce a quality photo, so I have to do that myself), then go back through caches and Trackable logs and upload pics to each his own. AND mark out any Tracking Codes in the photos. It's time-consuming to make decent logs and requires visiting different areas of the site over & over. But that's the only way to tell the story of the adventure.

 

It's much less work to just grab a handful of whatever's in the container and put it in one's pocket, and not log anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*I'm being silly. Sorry. And, yes, you're probably right.

Edited December 16, 2012 by kunarion

[+BlueDeuce]

If these things frustrate you that much... Perhaps you should find another hobby.

 

There's no way you'll ever get this game as perfectly documented as you think it should be. You're better off playing the game as you want/expect it to be played and move on. And by documenting your own game properly, that someone will learn by example.

 

I get enough stress at work.... The last thing I need is to elevate my own blood pressure because of things I directly can't control.

 

This is supposed to be fun....

 

Hence why I am done with trying to get it under control. Was I not clear enough?

[+NanCycle]

Bugs go missing. I can deal with that.

But when it comes to clean up I'm done banging my head against a wall. Not enough want to take it on, bug and cache owners alike, and even more don't want to see anything automated.

 

--

 

In reflection - My deepest and most heartfelt respect and admiration to Eartha, someone who cares even more than I do and does more than anyone else. Good luck cuz I'm on the other side now.

 

BD - I totally understand your frustration. I know that you have gone much further with lost trackables than I have, but even with the little that I have done, I can understand why you feel that way. About half of the approx 140 trackables that I have contacted owners (cache owners and trackable owners) about have been marked missing as the result of my emails, but as long as Eartha is willing to take care of the other half, I'll keep doing my little bit.

 

A BIG THANKS to Eartha for all she does.

[+Lieblweb]

 

Hence why I am done with trying to get it under control. Was I not clear enough?

 

What took you so long?

 

We're all dealing with the 'general public' ....

 

Heck, I can't even get some of my coworkers to follow simple instructions (or have the ability to understand those instructions). Even after training/explaining .... They just don't GET IT!! (and never will)

[+kunarion]

It seems to be Groundspeak's policy to not get involved when Trackable logs are wrong. I share the OP's frustration, but I think it's impossible for us to fix the TB issue, because the apathy starts at the top. So little by little, we probably all give up on that.

 

There's a well-documented case:

A Geocacher posing as a “non-Gecoacher”, stole a bunch of TBs and sold them on ebay. He first faked the logs to place them into Geowoodstock IV (back-dating them six years ago), so now you see the TBs appearing from thin air, going to GW4, then the genuine log from the guy who got the TB originally in the mail, months after GW4. They are glaringly wrong logs, really obvious. The reason GS gave me for not correcting these: I'm not the Owner of the TBs.

 

When we don't have the support from TBTP to keep things accurate, it's pointless to suggest a plan to do so.

[+Walts Hunting]

Hi

I am starting a discussion about a Lost Travel Bug Hotel.

As missing TBs and GeoCoins that have been missing for over a yearand reported several times with no action by the owner or cache owner, I think we need to collect these Trackables into a lost area.

What do people think?

ttfn Derek

 

We used to do that but the practice (and graveyard caches) were banned when the ability to mark location unknown was added. That handles it well.

 

If the froggie decided to monitor TB's at the level some people seem to want they would have to add a whole platoon and double the price just for that. This is just part of the hobby. Please read signature for solution.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Walts Hunting

[+BlueDeuce]

 

What took you so long?

 

Hope. Faith. Unrealistic expectations.

[+kunarion]

If the froggie decided to monitor TB's at the level some people seem to want they would have to add a whole platoon and double the price just for that.

I thought at least part of the idea was to ask Cache Owners to monitor the TBs. That shouldn't cost anything. It may even take only a couple of minutes per cache. "Yep, it's gone... Mark That Missing. Done."

[+BlueDeuce]

If the froggie decided to monitor TB's at the level some people seem to want they would have to add a whole platoon and double the price just for that.

I thought at least part of the idea was to ask Cache Owners to monitor the TBs. That shouldn't cost anything. It may even take only a couple of minutes per cache. "Yep, it's gone... Mark That Missing. Done."

 

Those threads are usually about how the owner has no responsibility to monitor tbs and asking them to move them out is discourteous.

 

Edit: Heck, I've been cussed out by bug owners when suggesting they mark their bug as missing in someone else's cache (sitting there for eighteen months).

Edited December 17, 2012 by BlueDeuce

[+kunarion]

I've been cussed out by bug owners when suggesting they mark their bug as missing in someone else's cache (sitting there for eighteen months).

Are you able to tell which ones are gone? I have trouble deciding which of my own TBs must next be put to sleep. And this past year has been brutal on mine. “Let's see, I'd better mark these five 'Missing'. Oh, and those ten. And... that one and probably those two... sheesh.”

[+BlueDeuce]

I've been cussed out by bug owners when suggesting they mark their bug as missing in someone else's cache (sitting there for eighteen months).

Are you able to tell which ones are gone? I have trouble deciding which of my own TBs must next be put to sleep. And this past year has been brutal on mine. “Let's see, I'd better mark these five 'Missing'. Oh, and those ten. And... that one and probably those two... sheesh.”

 

Who me? No idea.

[+Walts Hunting]

If the froggie decided to monitor TB's at the level some people seem to want they would have to add a whole platoon and double the price just for that.

I thought at least part of the idea was to ask Cache Owners to monitor the TBs. That shouldn't cost anything. It may even take only a couple of minutes per cache. "Yep, it's gone... Mark That Missing. Done."

 

I am glad you are less than a minute from all of your caches. One I had awhile ago was an hour drive followed by two hour hike in. Then of course the three hours to get back. Several that my friends have would take at least twice as long to check.

[+Cardinal Red]

I thought at least part of the idea was to ask Cache Owners to monitor the TBs. That shouldn't cost anything. It may even take only a couple of minutes per cache. "Yep, it's gone... Mark That Missing. Done."

 

And where did you get any part of that idea? I am NOT responsible for a stupid side game I have no interest in. If it ever becomes official Groundspeak policy that is my responsibility, one of two things will happen. TPTB will provide me a software solution to prevent anything trackable being logged into my caches. Or, all my caches get immediately archived. I've learned how little control I have in this game. But I can control that. Done.

[+BlueDeuce]

Where is that "I told you so" emoticon?

[+kunarion]

I thought at least part of the idea was to ask Cache Owners to monitor the TBs. That shouldn't cost anything. It may even take only a couple of minutes per cache. "Yep, it's gone... Mark That Missing. Done."

 

And where did you get any part of that idea? I am NOT responsible for a stupid side game I have no interest in. If it ever becomes official Groundspeak policy that is my responsibility, one of two things will happen. TPTB will provide me a software solution to prevent anything trackable being logged into my caches. Or, all my caches get immediately archived. I've learned how little control I have in this game. But I can control that. Done.

There are lots of suggestions around here about how to get TB inventories cleaned up. I was merely stating that some don't involve “doubling Premium fees”. This Topic is about the frustration caused by unbalanced Geocachers (present company excluded of course). There are separate Topics for specific plans. You didn't include the quoted post when replying to me, so I had to re-explain everything. Go back and read the context.

 

I'm certainly not insisting that Cache Owners do things they don't want to do, and you're kind of making my point (and the OP's point). Go back through the thread, and get an idea of what this topic's about. If COs are not interested in TBs, the cache's inventory list remains wrong, so that cache stands as a warning to not place TBs there. My main concern is that “cleaning up” TB inventories removes valuable information about cache condition, I'm not focused on finding ways to clean them up. I understand why people want to do so, but now we see more evidence that it's futile.

Edited December 17, 2012 by kunarion

[+kunarion]

If the froggie decided to monitor TB's at the level some people seem to want they would have to add a whole platoon and double the price just for that.

I thought at least part of the idea was to ask Cache Owners to monitor the TBs. That shouldn't cost anything. It may even take only a couple of minutes per cache. "Yep, it's gone... Mark That Missing. Done."

 

I am glad you are less than a minute from all of your caches. One I had awhile ago was an hour drive followed by two hour hike in. Then of course the three hours to get back. Several that my friends have would take at least twice as long to check.

Again, that's exactly my point. Read the context -- this is about caches that have TBs listed forever when the TBs aren't there. The Summary of My Main Points: "If you don't maintain your cache TB lists, the TB inventories are wrong. Caches with missing TBs must not get any new things added by visiting cachers. Fixing the lists removes valuable information. I am open to ideas to fix them anyway. Nobody cares."

 

This thread seems to be more about the frustration itself, not detailing the ways the frustration is perpetuated.

Edited December 17, 2012 by kunarion