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Does Geocaching need a governing body?


snow_rules

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With all the discussion on FTF records, most finds in a day, Virtual caches, challenges, etc I wonder if geocaching needs a governing body that defines what a cache is, what a find is, etc GC.com and the other sites have stated they are just listing sites but they also appear to make rules that fit their site. For example GC.com says that Wherigo are caches but other sites don't, other sites say virtual are caches this site doesn't. GC.com has a proximity rule (not sure of other sites). GC.com doesn't recognize FTF others might.

 

I could see this governing body being made up of representatives from listing sites and cachers from different areas of the country and world. To have valid records (most finds, most FTF, etc)the site of the finds would have to conform to the geocaching governing board. For example if QR code scans were not a recognized cache type, I could not say I have the world record for most caches in a day by scanning and recording 3000 QR codes.

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Geocaching is a real-world, outdoor treasure hunting game using GPS-enabled devices. Participants navigate to a specific set of GPS coordinates and then attempt to find the geocache (container) hidden at that location.

 

That is 'governed pretty well. All the rest is just so many little sides games. Why should GC.com give a carp about governing them?

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If the main listing site would never submit to a governing body (I'd bet money on this), then what good would forming one do?

 

Sadly, people equate this listing site as being the "governing body" of geocaching.

 

Even if one were formed and said (lets not argue this point, its an example) "Virtuals are real caches, and therefore should be listed and searched", this site would still never list them, so what good is a body that no one will submit to as an authority?

 

Once you break the bad concept that this site is the only place to find caches, such a concept may gain some traction.

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If there was an actual governing body then you could go to Guinness World record and actually have a valid world record for any record. If the main site elected not to participate and all the other sites did, I would predict that people would flock to the other sites to have official stats. If someone would submit a request to have a world record today, Guinness would ask who is the governing body of that sport and since there isn't they would probably pass on stating a world record. Most sports type hobbies have an governing organization that establish some set of rules.

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If there was an actual governing body then you could go to Guinness World record and actually have a valid world record for any record. If the main site elected not to participate and all the other sites did, I would predict that people would flock to the other sites to have official stats. If someone would submit a request to have a world record today, Guinness would ask who is the governing body of that sport and since there isn't they would probably pass on stating a world record. Most sports type hobbies have an governing organization that establish some set of rules.

 

Another good reason to answer No to the original question.

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I could see this governing body being made up of representatives from listing sites and cachers from different areas of the country and world. To have valid records (most finds, most FTF, etc)the site of the finds would have to conform to the geocaching governing board. For example if QR code scans were not a recognized cache type, I could not say I have the world record for most caches in a day by scanning and recording 3000 QR codes.

 

No, what geocaching needs is fewer hypercompetitive jerks. Your recommendation would just make it worse.

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No, it doesn't, thank you.

 

 

If there was an actual governing body then you could go to Guinness World record and actually have a valid world record for any record. If the main site elected not to participate and all the other sites did, I would predict that people would flock to the other sites to have official stats. If someone would submit a request to have a world record today, Guinness would ask who is the governing body of that sport and since there isn't they would probably pass on stating a world record. Most sports type hobbies have an governing organization that establish some set of rules.

 

 

"Sport (or, in the United States and Canada, sports) is all forms of competitive physical activity which,through casual or organised participation, aim to use, maintain or improve physical ability and provide entertainment to participants."

 

 

Personally, I don't think geocaching is a sport - and I wouldn't want it become defined as one. It's just a recreational pastime.

 

 

MrsB

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With all the discussion on FTF records, most finds in a day, Virtual caches, challenges, etc I wonder if geocaching needs a governing body that defines what a cache is, what a find is, etc GC.com and the other sites have stated they are just listing sites but they also appear to make rules that fit their site. For example GC.com says that Wherigo are caches but other sites don't, other sites say virtual are caches this site doesn't. GC.com has a proximity rule (not sure of other sites). GC.com doesn't recognize FTF others might.

 

I could see this governing body being made up of representatives from listing sites and cachers from different areas of the country and world. To have valid records (most finds, most FTF, etc)the site of the finds would have to conform to the geocaching governing board. For example if QR code scans were not a recognized cache type, I could not say I have the world record for most caches in a day by scanning and recording 3000 QR codes.

Nope...

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I hereby submit myself as Supreme Potentate of this unformed 'Governing Body'.

 

When I take Office, I promise:

2 FTFs for every cacher

better swag for traders

Power Trails for everyone, everywhere

an end to LPC hides

A return of Virtuals

 

I promise everything you want in caching!! (This is how the real politicians do it, isn't it?) :D

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I hereby submit myself as Supreme Potentate of this unformed 'Governing Body'.

 

When I take Office, I promise:

2 FTFs for every cacher

better swag for traders

Power Trails for everyone, everywhere

an end to LPC hides

A return of Virtuals

 

I promise everything you want in caching!! (This is how the real politicians do it, isn't it?) :D

You lost my ten votes (I stuff ballot boxes) with the power trails for everyone :angry:

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With all the discussion on bingo records, highest player score records, highest board score records, bluffing, challenges, memorization of obscure 2-letter words, using a "normal" dictionary vs the OED vs the Official SCRABBLE® Players Dictionary, etc., I wonder if Scrabble needs a governing body that defines what a word is, what a bingo is, etc.
It turns out that there is a governing body for Scrabble. Actually, there are multiple governing bodies for scrabble. Most scrabble players ignore them all.

 

If you feel a need to create a governing body for FTF competitions, for numbers runs, or for geocaching as a whole, you are free to do so. Most geocachers will ignore it.

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Even if one were formed and said (lets not argue this point, its an example) "Virtuals are real caches, and therefore should be listed and searched", this site would still never list them, so what good is a body that no one will submit to as an authority?

 

Groundspeak does not even follow the rules set forth by our state parks (California) for geocaching, so it is hard to imagine them following a "governing body" that would dictate their listings. The Powers That Be are the Powers That Be and are unlikely to give up their position for anything short of a coup.

 

Nevertheless, it could be helpful for all the side games. As a fan of professional darts, I can verify that things can get confusing when there are two competing world championships. Should we let this happen here?

 

With a governing body, before claiming the record for most caches in one day, you would have a place to submit your blood tests to ensure that the record is untarnished by performance enhancing substances. Standards could be in place to ensure that there is a neutral time keeper, the logs are verified, and that the method of finding the caches are the same.

 

Before claiming a first for anything, you could check to see what is the official definition of a first, a find, and whether the log has to be signed with a pencil or pen (or will blood do if the pen is lost?).

 

A governing body could also answer such pertinent questions as whether a find for a cache on one site counts as a first if the cache has already been logged on another site. We could all agree on who has the most finds in total rather than run the risk of competing statistics (do people keep track of such things on other sites?). And then we could start to post forum topics complaining about the governing body, which would keep things interesting around here.

Edited by geodarts
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Is the Geocaching Association of Great Britain(GAGB) something similar to this? Does Groundspeak work with GAGB? I'm in the US, so I don't know anything about how geocaching works across the pond, but it seems like GAGB is more than just another regional geocaching organization. http://gagb.co.uk/

 

Thanks for mentioning the GAGB.

 

The GAGB is certainly not a governing body, but is there as a local contact and resource site for people in the UK and Ireland - whether that be geocachers, landowners, media, organisations etc.

 

The association was established in 2003 to provide a voice for its members in the United Kingdom with the aim of establishing good Geocaching practices, providing a focal point for public liaison and supporting the growth and enjoyment of Geocaching within the UK.

 

It will be the associations 10 year anniversary this year and we are hoping to reach out to more cachers in the UK and Ireland and provide more resources and benefits for the members.

 

We do have a good relationship with Groundspeak (headquarters and our local reviewers) - especially when it comes to landowner agreements.

 

Jen

Maple Leaf

GAGB Chairman 2012/2013

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If you feel a need to create a governing body for FTF competitions, for numbers runs, or for geocaching as a whole, you are free to do so. Most geocachers will ignore it.

 

So maybe those who are interested in the various competitive aspects of geocaching can start their own website to keep track of everything and create their own governing body to make important decisions and resolve conflicts. And leave the rest of us out of it.

 

 

PAul

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I hereby submit myself as Supreme Potentate of this unformed 'Governing Body'.

 

When I take Office, I promise:

2 FTFs for every cacher

better swag for traders

NO Power Trails for everyone, everywhere NOBODY, NOWHERE

an end to LPC hides

A return of Virtuals

 

I promise everything you want in caching!! (This is how the real politicians do it, isn't it?) :D

You lost my ten votes (I stuff ballot boxes) with the power trails for everyone :angry:

 

Is that more to your liking? My constituency has spoken! I need those votes!

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If there was an actual governing body then you could go to Guinness World record and actually have a valid world record for any record. If the main site elected not to participate and all the other sites did, I would predict that people would flock to the other sites to have official stats. If someone would submit a request to have a world record today, Guinness would ask who is the governing body of that sport and since there isn't they would probably pass on stating a world record. Most sports type hobbies have an governing organization that establish some set of rules.

 

Really? How about hang-gliding, para-sailing, base-jumping, spelunking, rock-climbing, white water rafting, beach combing, wake boarding, etc, etc?

 

Note that some such activities may have competitions and there are likely rules for those competitions. That doesn't mean those rules come from a body that governs that particular hobby or activity. Note that most sports are competitions and are not hobbies. While there is a large subset of cachers, such as yourself, who enjoy the statistics the vast majority consider caching as an enjoyable non competitive hobby. Even a hobby can be measured and have goals if the hobby participant desires. A stamp collector may take pride in how many first day issues she has collected. That doesn't make it a competitive hobby and as a collector I would not be the least bit interested in how many she has collected. Nor does there need to be a governing body that defines and keeps track of her collection.

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I will not only take the dissenting opinion, but will gladly volunteer as said governing body. My opinion rules.

I for one, will gladly accept your governing body. :)

 

Other than that, I think things are best left as is.

I think I like just a touch of anarchy, and I don't like the competitiveness.

 

Anyway, I'd like to see how fast the Guiness book of world records would get tired of running out and watching every time someone thought they would break the record for finds in a day on a power trail. I could see that getting really old really quick.

You realize they'd have to see every cache find, which means jumping out of the car and seeing every signature for 24 hours. Oh yeah, this could be funny with the older judges.

Then we will hear all over the forums how the observers slowed them down, that they would ha e gotten so many more, etc. Etc.

 

Such great drama and something new on the forums:maybe I should change my vote.

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With all the discussion on FTF records, most finds in a day, Virtual caches, challenges, etc I wonder if geocaching needs a governing body that defines what a cache is, what a find is, etc GC.com and the other sites have stated they are just listing sites but they also appear to make rules that fit their site. For example GC.com says that Wherigo are caches but other sites don't, other sites say virtual are caches this site doesn't. GC.com has a proximity rule (not sure of other sites). GC.com doesn't recognize FTF others might.

 

I could see this governing body being made up of representatives from listing sites and cachers from different areas of the country and world. To have valid records (most finds, most FTF, etc)the site of the finds would have to conform to the geocaching governing board. For example if QR code scans were not a recognized cache type, I could not say I have the world record for most caches in a day by scanning and recording 3000 QR codes.

 

BTW, nice post. I'm sure this will generate a lot of follow up posts.

 

Maybe we can have a competition for the post with the most replies, the fast growing post, the quickest to be locked, the one with the most moderator participation... Wow a new game...

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We don't need it. For one thing Geocaching.com is the largest and most popular so wouldn't they have more say? So we would still have the same rules. Now what about FTF on cross listed caches? I go here tomorrow and get FTF on a newly published cache. Then next month it's published on another site-and someone else gets FTF on that site? do both get the FTF? Does it count as 2 caches? Do I get 2 finds for finding it once and logging it twice? Too many what if's. Really I think if you have a problem with the way things are done, go to another site, or create your own.

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...other sites say virtual are caches this site doesn't...

 

Where does it say virtuals are not caches? They are, you can log them. You just can't create them anymore. That's like saying they stopped making the Ford Crown Victoria(cop car) so it's not considered a car anymore.

 

I will not only take the dissenting opinion, but will gladly volunteer as said governing body. My opinion rules.

 

Will a couple of Milkbones allow me a virtual?? :D

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For brevity:

 

No.

 

My long winded sarcastic reply....

 

What do you mean by governing body? Like if you don't take the mark of the governing body"s sigile, pay dues, make an oath of fealty, and flagellate ourselves after every DNF, then we can't play? :huh::unsure:

 

Sure. I'd love to have a governing body that gives no value added to our sport/hobby/activity. :rolleyes:

 

There is already a Geocacher's Creed that no one pays attention to so why not a governing body right?

 

Just sayin'. :anibad:

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If you feel a need to create a governing body for FTF competitions, for numbers runs, or for geocaching as a whole, you are free to do so. Most geocachers will ignore it.

 

So maybe those who are interested in the various competitive aspects of geocaching can start their own website to keep track of everything and create their own governing body to make important decisions and resolve conflicts. And leave the rest of us out of it.

 

 

PAul

+1

 

Works well for the Extreme Caching types.

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If you feel a need to create a governing body for FTF competitions, for numbers runs, or for geocaching as a whole, you are free to do so. Most geocachers will ignore it.

 

So maybe those who are interested in the various competitive aspects of geocaching can start their own website to keep track of everything and create their own governing body to make important decisions and resolve conflicts. And leave the rest of us out of it.

 

 

PAul

...and if you don't like that site, you can start another one.

 

...and if you don't like that site, you can start another one.

...and if you don't like that site, you can start another one.

...and if you don't like that site, you can start another one.

...and if you don't like that site, you can start another one.

...and if you don't like that site, you can start another one.

...and if you don't like that site, you can start another one.

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The problem with any "governing body" are that usually the "my way = only way" types get in charge and push their own agenda.

 

And anyway, if Snoogans if offering flagellation, I'm in.

 

With apologies to Inigo Montoya;

 

flagellation, you keep using this word, but I do not think it means what you think it means. :bad:

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With all the discussion on FTF records, most finds in a day, Virtual caches, challenges, etc I wonder if geocaching needs a governing body that defines what a cache is, what a find is, etc GC.com and the other sites have stated they are just listing sites but they also appear to make rules that fit their site. For example GC.com says that Wherigo are caches but other sites don't, other sites say virtual are caches this site doesn't. GC.com has a proximity rule (not sure of other sites). GC.com doesn't recognize FTF others might.

 

I could see this governing body being made up of representatives from listing sites and cachers from different areas of the country and world. To have valid records (most finds, most FTF, etc)the site of the finds would have to conform to the geocaching governing board. For example if QR code scans were not a recognized cache type, I could not say I have the world record for most caches in a day by scanning and recording 3000 QR codes.

 

BTW, nice post. I'm sure this will generate a lot of follow up posts.

Yup! Sure did!

 

pile-on.jpg

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I don't know why I even bother to make this reply because I know the answer - but it just amuses me to see someone post a topic, mainly benign but worthy of a discussion, and it is the same people time and time again who come back here with arrogant, rude and condescending responses.

 

so the question remains... why did you?

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I, for one, feel no need for further governance.

 

This brings to mind the futile attempt to apply rules and bylaws to the time honored pastime of bean bag. It started well, but ended badly at the last attempted championship. According to William C. Dukenfield: “ … it becomes very exciting at times. I saw the championship played in Paris; many people were killed.”

 

Not quite the ending we desire for geocaching, I expect.

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I see the competitiveness of it as a downside. For instance....I've seen a geocaching race where cachers team up with each other. One is the driver and the other is the finder.

 

The finder jumps out and stamps the log with his signature stamp (and the driver's stamp, too). Mind you, the driver never even got out of the vehicle or saw the cache, but yet his signature stamp is on it.

 

All this to win a contest. To each his own, I guess.

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