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Mike & Jess
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If a group of locals create a GeoArt under a group GC account, should the container (physical cache) be owned by the group account?

 

We have a local cacher who removed a number of the caches claiming that the group account owns the cordinates, but not physical cache.

Edited by Mike & Jess
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I'm already going out to replace them as soon as I can walk staight (hurt my back this week, off topic).

The question is who technically owns the physical caches?

 

This cacher stated in the NM he logged that he took them and in the somewhat nasty email I recieved this evening, it was stated that he owned the physical caches.

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Unless you are a non-profit society I would think they are owned by the one who bought them. or in the case of a well painted container where the paint job may be of more value(monetary or otherwise) the one who payed for/did the paint/camo job. Now if you happen to be a non-profit society then I'd think it would be owned by the society/group. Would this have anything to do with your other question today?

Edited by T.D.M.22
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It seems to me that the question isn't who owns them. The question is, "Why's he being such a jerk?" Even if we decide he definitely owns them, it still doesn't explain why he didn't ask someone to provide replacements that he could leave when he collected his.

 

For the record, my opinion is that the cache owns them no matter who provided them, which effectively means the group owns them. But even with that, I'd expect an amicable resolution to a request to swap out containers provided by someone that's leaving the group for replacements provided by someone still in the group. So my advice is to figure out why nothing remotely amicable is going on here...unless you know already and aren't telling us.

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Are you bating the OP into airing dirty laundry in a public forum? B)

 

Sounds like there is a fair-size load waiting to be hung out. <_<

In any case, if I wanted a soap-opera, I'd turn on the TV.

 

If I had 'donated' my containers to your 'geo-art', I would consider it a done deal, with no recourse on my part to recover the containers should I decide to disassociate myself from the group.

 

Your person has apparently decided otherwise, and unless you want to storm his house to get them back, I think you should let the matter drop.

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Unless you are a non-profit society I would think they are owned by the one who bought them. or in the case of a well painted container where the paint job may be of more value(monetary or otherwise) the one who payed for/did the paint/camo job. Now if you happen to be a non-profit society then I'd think it would be owned by the society/group. Would this have anything to do with your other question today?

The answer is yes and yes.

I should have waited before posting the second question, but this issue has been eating at me and just keeps going.

 

It seems to me that the question isn't who owns them. The question is, "Why's he being such a jerk?" (snip) So my advice is to figure out why nothing remotely amicable is going on here...unless you know already and aren't telling us.

 

Are you bating the OP into airing dirty laundry in a public forum? B)

Figured I would cover everyone in one quote.

I can't tell you what set this person(s) off originally, but I can tell you that this is the last incident of many things done over the summer.

 

As for airing dirty laundry... I am trying (really hard btw) to be the better person and keep these mess and their actions out of sight in our local area (and somewhat failing apparently).

 

As much as I would really, really like to share more info...

If you poke enough, you'll find the info and probably even be able to name the cacher involved.

 

NOW, back on topic...

In my opinion, if a cache is placed as part of an organization and posted/owned on the geocaching.com site, it is owned by that account. I believe that these 8 caches are no different then the large number of caches my wife and I have donnated to different groups (YMCA in Cape Bretton, London Loop team in southern ontario,Northern Ontario Geocachers LOGO, etc) over the years. Yes we paid for them, prepped and even painted some (we're pretty good at cammo painting now), but they still belong to those who hold the listing on geocaching.com.

 

Unfortunately, in the other thread I posted earlier, no one could provide a set of "Finds" rules similar to the Hides rules. What was offered is not nearly as refined as the hides guideline and regulations.

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Are you bating the OP into airing dirty laundry in a public forum? B)

 

Sounds like there is a fair-size load waiting to be hung out. <_<

In any case, if I wanted a soap-opera, I'd turn on the TV.

 

If I had 'donated' my containers to your 'geo-art', I would consider it a done deal, with no recourse on my part to recover the containers should I decide to disassociate myself from the group.

 

Your person has apparently decided otherwise, and unless you want to storm his house to get them back, I think you should let the matter drop.

I guess I took too long to finish my post. I'll save you the soap-opera.

It does however appear we're all on the same page.

 

Thanks

Edited by Mike & Jess
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Are you bating the OP into airing dirty laundry in a public forum? B)

 

Sounds like there is a fair-size load waiting to be hung out. <_<

In any case, if I wanted a soap-opera, I'd turn on the TV.

 

If I had 'donated' my containers to your 'geo-art', I would consider it a done deal, with no recourse on my part to recover the containers should I decide to disassociate myself from the group.

 

Your person has apparently decided otherwise, and unless you want to storm his house to get them back, I think you should let the matter drop.

I guess I took too long to finish my post. I'll save you the soap-opera.

It does however appear we're all on the same page.

 

Thanks

 

I can understand how you could be seriously perturbed.

I doubt I could keep my cool.

 

But, naturally, the high road is the best road.

Don't let the bastards get you down, and don't let them drag you down to their level.

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Are you bating the OP into airing dirty laundry in a public forum? B)

 

Sounds like there is a fair-size load waiting to be hung out. <_<

In any case, if I wanted a soap-opera, I'd turn on the TV.

 

If I had 'donated' my containers to your 'geo-art', I would consider it a done deal, with no recourse on my part to recover the containers should I decide to disassociate myself from the group.

 

Your person has apparently decided otherwise, and unless you want to storm his house to get them back, I think you should let the matter drop.

I guess I took too long to finish my post. I'll save you the soap-opera.

It does however appear we're all on the same page.

 

Thanks

 

I can understand how you could be seriously perturbed.

I doubt I could keep my cool.

 

But, naturally, the high road is the best road.

Don't let the bastards get you down, and don't let them drag you down to their level.

 

Thanks. My hands hurt from sitting on them. I've had many many times where I've nearly posted or emailed tearing into these folks and making all the crap public knowledge.

 

Anyway...Back on Topic.

It looks like the general concensis is that if the physical caches where placed/published under the group account, they belong to the group. If the cacher really neede/wanted his physical caches back, they should have informed the group instead of removing them without telling anyone.

I guess lesson learned, don't assume people understand. Put it in writing before hand and have it signed. (Shame to have to say that.)

 

Unless anyone has anything more to add to the original question, I believe the general concenses has been set.

 

Thanks guys.

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If a group of locals create a GeoArt under a group GC account, should the container (physical cache) be owned by the group account?

 

We have a local cacher who removed a number of the caches claiming that the group account owns the cordinates, but not physical cache.

 

Lots of drama happening. Too bad.

 

Who owns the containers is sort of a moot point now, isn't it?

 

Whoever is in control of the group's account should do the courteous thing and disable those caches.

 

If the containers aren't going to be replaced, then the caches should be archived.

 

 

B.

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It seems to me that the question isn't who owns them. The question is, "Why's he being such a jerk?" (snip) So my advice is to figure out why nothing remotely amicable is going on here...unless you know already and aren't telling us.

Are you bating the OP into airing dirty laundry in a public forum? B)

Actually, it hadn't occurred to me that he might actually tell us. I was mainly just suggesting that if there's more to the story, there not really any point for discussing it further here. If I'd thought about the fact that this might cause me to smell dirty laundry, I might have thought twice.

 

It looks like the general concensis is that if the physical caches where placed/published under the group account, they belong to the group.

My reaction -- and I think it's fair to say it's the concensus -- is, "They belong to the group...but so what?" They're gone now, so just pretend you don't know who took them and move on. That they belong to the group is really only input to someone considering reposessing them. It's not useful to someone in your position because it doesn't offer any suggestion for a course of action. (Well, at least I hope you're not even thinking about suing him or having him arrested for embezzling the containers.) Indeed, your only reasonable choice here, as far as I can see, is whether to be angry and upset or not to be angry and upset. Personally, I recommend the latter.

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Obviously a big shame but unfortunately quite a common occurence in life when any sort of partnership breaks down and property is involved. I guess putting it in perspective we are only talking about some low value cache containers (assuming they weren't diamond encrusted).

 

In my opinion the remaining members of your group should simply take the higher ground and replace the containers and move on. (I am making an assumption that this is feasible).

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The thread is quickly degenerating into name calling and personal attacks, which is against the forum guidelines. Personal disputes should be resolved privately, or with Groundspeak's assistance if there's issues of account control, ToU violations, etc. I am closing this thread. Don't start another one about this dispute.

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