Any way to take over an Archived Cache?

[+Char1ieJ]

The topic title & decsription says it all. There is a nearby existing cache that I think it really cool. The CO has moved away from the area -- and is no longer able to maintain it. As such, he recently "archived" the cache. I offered to take it over, but he said that once a cache is "archived", it cannot be reactivated.

 

I'd like to know if there is a way, with the CO's approval, that I could "legally" take over and maintain the cache. Any suggestions or policy information would be appreciated. I think he would let me take over the cache, but doesn't seem to think there's any way to do it now that the cache status has been set to archived.

 

It really is a good cache, with a lot of work put into it. I'd hate to see all that work go to waste -- and I am within one mile of the GZ a few times every week (so maintenance would not be an issue).

 

THANKS for your help!

[+wimseyguy]

The cache owner is correct. Archived caches cannot be unarchived to be adopted.

Here's the help center Adoption article.

You can create v2.0 of that cache, perhaps they will assist from a distance.

[+Totem Clan]

.....

 

Never mind. It was answered.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Totem Clan

[+CanadianRockies]

I offered to take it over, but he said that once a cache is "archived", it cannot be reactivated.

That's pretty much correct. The Groundspeak guidelines state, "Archived caches cannot be transferred, and rarely will archived caches be unarchived for the purpose of adoption."

 

More exceptional circumstances than "it really is a good cache" probably are required before Groundspeak would unarchive a cache for purposes of adoption.

 

I'd like to know if there is a way, with the CO's approval, that I could "legally" take over and maintain the cache.

With the owner's permission, you could create a new listing page that uses the same coordinates, the same cache container, and the same listing page description. It would simply have you as the new owner.

[Mr.Yuck]

The cache owner is correct. Archived caches cannot be unarchived to be adopted.

Here's the help center Adoption article.

You can create v2.0 of that cache, perhaps they will assist from a distance.

 

Yeah, I blame that on the world-wide "lets replace a cache placed in 2000, and have it unarchived" frenzy of 2006. No, I'm not making that up.

[+Char1ieJ]

I'd like to know if there is a way, with the CO's approval, that I could "legally" take over and maintain the cache.

With the owner's permission, you could create a new listing page that uses the same coordinates, the same cache container, and the same listing page description. It would simply have you as the new owner.

 

THANKS for the advice folks. I just emailed the original CO and asked him if I could have his permission to "create a new listing page that uses the same coordinates, and the same listing page description". I also offered (as an alternative) to change one part of the Mystery Cache description, so the end result (GZ) will be slightly different -- with a brand new, totally different cache. In addition, I gave him a link to this discussion, so he could see what's being said. He is a geocaching.com member, so hopefully he'll see the topic and agree not to let his awesome Mystery Cache go to waste.

 

I am awaiting his reply.

[+Char1ieJ]

I offered to take it over, but he said that once a cache is "archived", it cannot be reactivated.

That's pretty much correct. The Groundspeak guidelines state, "Archived caches cannot be transferred, and rarely will archived caches be unarchived for the purpose of adoption."

 

More exceptional circumstances than "it really is a good cache" probably are required before Groundspeak would unarchive a cache for purposes of adoption.

 

I'm sure I can give more compelling reasons to allow adoption than "it really is a good cache". It's actually a mystery cache with A LOT of historical information about a small town, along with "puzzle info" that leads to the GZ. The cache itself wasn't that special, but I'd like to make it special -- and maintain it.

Nonetheless, I'm going to wait a few days to see if the CO replies. If he doesn't have a problem with me taking over, I'll ask him to start the adoption process (to see if it will work or not). If he raises objections, I'll just drop it and let the cache die -- but that would be a shame. If he doesn't reply further at all, he already gave me permission to set a cache at the location. If ppl use the archived cache, they can find what I place there (with his approval) instead of nothing at all.

 

Anyway, thanks again for your advice and the link to the article. I'm still reading and learning...

Edited November 26, 2012 by Char1ieJ

[+uxorious]

I offered to take it over, but he said that once a cache is "archived", it cannot be reactivated.

That's pretty much correct. The Groundspeak guidelines state, "Archived caches cannot be transferred, and rarely will archived caches be unarchived for the purpose of adoption."

 

More exceptional circumstances than "it really is a good cache" probably are required before Groundspeak would unarchive a cache for purposes of adoption.

 

I'm sure I can give more compelling reasons to allow adoption than "it really is a good cache". It's actually a mystery cache with A LOT of historical information about a small town, along with "puzzle info" that leads to the GZ. The cache itself wasn't that special, but I'd like to make it special -- and maintain it.

Nonetheless, I'm going to wait a few days to see if the CO replies. If he doesn't have a problem with me taking over, I'll ask him to start the adoption process (to see if it will work or not). If he raises objections, I'll just drop it and let the cache die -- but that would be a shame. If he doesn't reply further at all, he already gave me permission to set a cache at the location. If ppl use the archived cache, they can find what I place there (with his approval) instead of nothing at all.

 

Anyway, thanks again for your advice and the link to the article. I'm still reading and learning...

 

If the cache is archived, the CO has already given it up. You really don't need his permission. Also if the cache is archived, (not diabled) then you don't need to "just drop it and let the cache die", it's already dead.

 

Just go out and set your own cache, copying whatever part of the old you want.

[+CanadianRockies]

Just go out and set your own cache, copying whatever part of the old you want.

The cache listing page description remains the intellectual property of the cache owner even after archival, so copying it would be a copyright violation. Personally, I'd ask permission.

[+Char1ieJ]

Just go out and set your own cache, copying whatever part of the old you want.

The cache listing page description remains the intellectual property of the cache owner even after archival, so copying it would be a copyright violation. Personally, I'd ask permission.

 

Would you consider this previous email from the CO as permission to take over?

 

"The one I shut down can't be undone. If you want, you are welcome to place a cache where it was located. It's open now. I've moved out of the area. I'm unable to take care of them like I want.

 

Thanks,

[name redacted]"

 

I don't want to misinterpret or cause any issues, but I really don't want this cache to die.

[+The A-Team]

More exceptional circumstances than "it really is a good cache" probably are required before Groundspeak would unarchive a cache for purposes of adoption.

I'm sure I can give more compelling reasons to allow adoption than "it really is a good cache". It's actually a mystery cache with A LOT of historical information about a small town, along with "puzzle info" that leads to the GZ.

Really all you're saying here is still "it's a really good cache". To give you an example of a case (the only one I'm personally aware of) where caches were unarchived for adoption, I'll describe what happened in my area.

 

There was a team of cachers going under the team name TEAM KFWB GPS that hid over 300 caches in this region from 2002 to 2005. They were geocaching pioneers in this region, placing large, sometimes complex caches in excellent places long before anyone else even considered doing so, stocked with things like GPSrs, large sums of cash, and other expensive items. They were legendary. In March 2011, due to disagreements with the way geocaching was going, they archived every one of their caches, leaving huge holes in the caching map. Our primary reviewer at that time began discussions with Groundspeak to investigate whether these caches could be unarchived and adopted out to local cachers, because they are a significant part of this region's caching history. Over the course of the next couple of months, Groundspeak gradually unarchived most of the caches in batches and they were adopted out to locals willing to take over ownership. The TEAM had already archived some of their caches before this mass-archival, and some of the others no longer complied with the guidelines and weren't unarchived, but in the end about 200 caches were saved and now live on.

[+CanadianRockies]

Just go out and set your own cache, copying whatever part of the old you want.

The cache listing page description remains the intellectual property of the cache owner even after archival, so copying it would be a copyright violation. Personally, I'd ask permission.

 

Would you consider this previous email from the CO as permission to take over?

 

"The one I shut down can't be undone. If you want, you are welcome to place a cache where it was located. It's open now. I've moved out of the area. I'm unable to take care of them like I want.

 

Thanks,

[name redacted]"

 

I don't want to misinterpret or cause any issues, but I really don't want this cache to die.

I wouldn't interpret the quoted passage to mean you have the owner's permission to copy their listing page description. Since it appears they removed their container, their email really isn't giving you permission to do anything that you can't already do without their permission. Namely, you currently can put a new container at the archived location and create a new geocache listing page.

 

Since copyrights don't cover titles, you're free to use their old cache listing title without any permission issues. For example, "Old Title" or (probably better) "Old Title - Redux."

Edited November 26, 2012 by CanadianRockies

[+baloo&bd]

Just go out and set your own cache, copying whatever part of the old you want.

The cache listing page description remains the intellectual property of the cache owner even after archival, so copying it would be a copyright violation. Personally, I'd ask permission.

 

Would you consider this previous email from the CO as permission to take over?

 

"The one I shut down can't be undone. If you want, you are welcome to place a cache where it was located. It's open now. I've moved out of the area. I'm unable to take care of them like I want.

 

Thanks,

[name redacted]"

 

I don't want to misinterpret or cause any issues, but I really don't want this cache to die.

I wouldn't interpret the quoted passage to mean you have the owner's permission to copy their listing page description. Since it appears they removed their container, their email really isn't giving you permission to do anything that you can't already do without their permission. Namely, you currently can put a new container at the archived location and create a new geocache listing page.

 

Since copyrights don't cover titles, you're free to use their old cache listing title without any permission issues. For example, "Old Title" or (probably better) "Old Title - Redux."

 

You can ask permission to be polite, however it is not a copyright issue.

Edited November 27, 2012 by baloo&bd

[+Char1ieJ]

Just go out and set your own cache, copying whatever part of the old you want.

The cache listing page description remains the intellectual property of the cache owner even after archival, so copying it would be a copyright violation. Personally, I'd ask permission.

 

Would you consider this previous email from the CO as permission to take over?

 

"The one I shut down can't be undone. If you want, you are welcome to place a cache where it was located. It's open now. I've moved out of the area. I'm unable to take care of them like I want.

 

Thanks,

[name redacted]"

 

I don't want to misinterpret or cause any issues, but I really don't want this cache to die.

I wouldn't interpret the quoted passage to mean you have the owner's permission to copy their listing page description. Since it appears they removed their container, their email really isn't giving you permission to do anything that you can't already do without their permission. Namely, you currently can put a new container at the archived location and create a new geocache listing page.

 

Since copyrights don't cover titles, you're free to use their old cache listing title without any permission issues. For example, "Old Title" or (probably better) "Old Title - Redux."

 

You can ask missioner to be polite, however it is not a copyright issue.

 

So, two ppl say I can just take over the archived cache -- the original CO has removed his cache. One person says I can't bc the description is copyright protected. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing. I don't know... I can say this - I'd *much* rather have the original CO endorse my using the description, whether it's "legal" or not. I think it would be in poor taste to just grab the guy's description w/o his permission. OTOH, I don't wanna see the cache die.

 

Maybe I could use the publicly available historical info, change the clues with orignal dataI research & write... but arrive at the same GZ (esp since the CO gave me permission). Would that be a suitable compromise in the event I don't hear back from him?

[+wimseyguy]

It's your cache, make it your own work, in your own words, with your own clues and puzzles.

In the Short Description pay homage to the original hide by stating that you were inspired to create this one by linking to his original work.

[+uxorious]

Just go out and set your own cache, copying whatever part of the old you want.

The cache listing page description remains the intellectual property of the cache owner even after archival, so copying it would be a copyright violation. Personally, I'd ask permission.

 

You are right, I guess I didn't word that right. I wasn't thinking of a copy and paste type of copy.

 

Just to figure out what you liked about the archived cache, and incorporate that into your cache.

 

However, I will still say, if the cache is archived then you can go for it. The cache owner has given up the spot. No reason a very similar cache couldn't be placed in the same place.

[Mr.Yuck]

Now that's interesting. I saw a reply after uxorious, and it seems to have disappeared from existence. I vote for what wimseyguy said in the post above theirs, by the way.

[+Char1ieJ]

Well, I have good news. The original CO replied and gave me permission to take over the cache, along with the history information contained within the text. I plan to change elements of the cache, but keep the same GZ. And, as suggested, I'll give him credit/pay homage to his original work.

 

From original CO:

"Charlie,

You can set up a new cache if you like. If you want to use the same information of the cache that I did you can or do one yourself. The cache is archived. So the area is free.

Thanks,

Ed"

 

I have a cache ready. Now, to get the text written up and edits made. THANKS AGAIN for the advice and support folks.

[+OZ2CPU]

what we do in a similar situation, ask original CO if still arround,

to unarchive it,

then we fix it, and ask him to enable the listing again,

this way it keep the GC number and old release date,

this is also importent to some users.

we done this a few times, it is exactly the same as if the CO goes out and fix his old cache,

but he maybe moved, or dont like the outdoors anymore, or dont have time,

no matter what, some special caches are worth saving,

and some who thinks like that are happy to do the work, just fine.

[+Shop99er]

I offered to take it over, but he said that once a cache is "archived", it cannot be reactivated.

That's pretty much correct. The Groundspeak guidelines state, "Archived caches cannot be transferred, and rarely will archived caches be unarchived for the purpose of adoption."

 

More exceptional circumstances than "it really is a good cache" probably are required before Groundspeak would unarchive a cache for purposes of adoption.

 

I'd like to know if there is a way, with the CO's approval, that I could "legally" take over and maintain the cache.

With the owner's permission, you could create a new listing page that uses the same coordinates, the same cache container, and the same listing page description. It would simply have you as the new owner.

If it's archived, I don't see that any permission from the CO of the now-defunct cache is needed for anything. He doesn't own the coordinates, or the name. I would add 2.0 to the same name to avoid confusion though.

 

Regarding the original container however, if the CO took it, then yes, you're gonna have to ask for it back. If he left it there, then he was done with it.

 

I would, however, place a blurb in my write-up that my new cache is based/inspired by GCXXXXXXXXX.

[+jollyquest]

Well, I have good news. The original CO replied and gave me permission to take over the cache, along with the history information contained within the text. I plan to change elements of the cache, but keep the same GZ. And, as suggested, I'll give him credit/pay homage to his original work.

 

From original CO:

"Charlie,

You can set up a new cache if you like. If you want to use the same information of the cache that I did you can or do one yourself. The cache is archived. So the area is free.

Thanks,

Ed"

 

I have a cache ready. Now, to get the text written up and edits made. THANKS AGAIN for the advice and support folks.

 

In 2010 one of my favourite caches got archived by the owner. I quickly contacted the owner and was soon able to get the reviewer to unarchive it. The CO then transferred the cache to me. It CAN be done.

[GOF and Bacall]

I offered to take it over, but he said that once a cache is "archived", it cannot be reactivated.

That's pretty much correct. The Groundspeak guidelines state, "Archived caches cannot be transferred, and rarely will archived caches be unarchived for the purpose of adoption."

 

More exceptional circumstances than "it really is a good cache" probably are required before Groundspeak would unarchive a cache for purposes of adoption.

 

I'd like to know if there is a way, with the CO's approval, that I could "legally" take over and maintain the cache.

With the owner's permission, you could create a new listing page that uses the same coordinates, the same cache container, and the same listing page description. It would simply have you as the new owner.

If it's archived, I don't see that any permission from the CO of the now-defunct cache is needed for anything. He doesn't own the coordinates, or the name. I would add 2.0 to the same name to avoid confusion though.

 

Asking the original CO may not be necessary but it goes along way to avoiding bad blood. Little things make it easier to get along.

 

Regarding the original container however, if the CO took it, then yes, you're gonna have to ask for it back. If he left it there, then he was done with it.

 

Unless it is still listed elsewhere. Another good reason to contact the original CO.

 

I would, however, place a blurb in my write-up that my new cache is based/inspired by GCXXXXXXXXX.

 

Also a great way to keep everyone friends.

[Keystone]

Well, I have good news. The original CO replied and gave me permission to take over the cache, along with the history information contained within the text. I plan to change elements of the cache, but keep the same GZ. And, as suggested, I'll give him credit/pay homage to his original work.

 

From original CO:

"Charlie,

You can set up a new cache if you like. If you want to use the same information of the cache that I did you can or do one yourself. The cache is archived. So the area is free.

Thanks,

Ed"

 

I have a cache ready. Now, to get the text written up and edits made. THANKS AGAIN for the advice and support folks.

 

In 2010 one of my favourite caches got archived by the owner. I quickly contacted the owner and was soon able to get the reviewer to unarchive it. The CO then transferred the cache to me. It CAN be done.

That happened by accident. If someone did that in my review territory I would refuse to unarchive the listing if it was for the purpose of adopting it over to a new owner. If that information wasn't provided, and the adoption occurred soon after the unarchival, I would re-archive the listing. All of this would be in line with instructions given to the volunteer cache reviewers by Groundspeak.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

In 2010 one of my favourite caches got archived by the owner. I quickly contacted the owner and was soon able to get the reviewer to unarchive it. The CO then transferred the cache to me. It CAN be done.

That happened by accident. If someone did that in my review territory I would refuse to unarchive the listing if it was for the purpose of adopting it over to a new owner. If that information wasn't provided, and the adoption occurred soon after the unarchival, I would re-archive the listing. All of this would be in line with instructions given to the volunteer cache reviewers by Groundspeak.

 

I was going to say, that sounds like it was done behind the reviewers back. Not a good way to build up goodwill with your reviewer.

 

Do reviewers get any kind of notification when a cache is adopted out? I know caches that I've had on my watchlist have been adopted out but I can't recall getting a notification when it happens. Perhaps I did but just don't remember it.

[+DreamingDog]

Congrats Charlie!

 

When it is up would you please post the link here? I adore historic caches and hope to create and place some myself.

 

Everyone- awesome info on this thread.

[+Planet]

I'd hurry up, if I were you, before someone grabs the spot.

[4wheelin_fool]

The correct thing to do, of course, is to create a new listing at the original spot with a link to the old one. Then cachers could revisit the same spot twice for another smiley if they wanted to.

 

There were a few cachers that lived around here that archived their caches when they moved, rather than adopting them out so that their old hides could appear on their stats. Other cachers in the area created new listings for the old containers, which were nearly identical to the old ones. old cache new cache. Personally, I think it's silly to visit the same cache container twice, even though there are 2 GC#s, but everyone's opinion is different.

[Keystone]

In 2010 one of my favourite caches got archived by the owner. I quickly contacted the owner and was soon able to get the reviewer to unarchive it. The CO then transferred the cache to me. It CAN be done.

That happened by accident. If someone did that in my review territory I would refuse to unarchive the listing if it was for the purpose of adopting it over to a new owner. If that information wasn't provided, and the adoption occurred soon after the unarchival, I would re-archive the listing. All of this would be in line with instructions given to the volunteer cache reviewers by Groundspeak.

 

I was going to say, that sounds like it was done behind the reviewers back. Not a good way to build up goodwill with your reviewer.

 

Do reviewers get any kind of notification when a cache is adopted out? I know caches that I've had on my watchlist have been adopted out but I can't recall getting a notification when it happens. Perhaps I did but just don't remember it.

You are a smart and perceptive geocacher.

 

No, there's no automatic notification to the reviewer when a cache owner processes an adoption. Most of the time we do not care and are happy to see the cache continue its life in new hands.

 

BUT, when I unarchive a cache, there's these things called bookmark lists where I can keep track of the post-unarchival behavior. Reviewers are smart and perceptive, too.

[+Char1ieJ]

Well, we have a resolution. The original CO gave me his written approval to take over the cache. I'm in the process of making some edits, adding some new info and getting the cache ready to send for review. The GZ will be the same. The history text will be largely the same. But, I'm adding/editing to make it my own. I don't see the original cache listing becoming unarchived. From what everyone here says, this is the next best thing. A "new" cache from the old one. And the blessing of the original CO for the entire process.

 

Thanks again to everyone who contributed. I appreciate it!