A geocache under threat

[+-CJ-]

I'm a novice at these forums though I've played geocaching for years at our national Russian geocaching website (different database, rules, etc.). There's a number of issues that seem rather different at geocaching.com and I hope I will find answers playing the game and/or here at these wonderful forums.

 

One big trouble is that we in Russia cannot strictly follow one of the basic rules of geocaching. Due to huge distances in our country and poor dissemination of GPS technologies (I even don't speak about the popularity of the game itself) we cannot make a cache owner fully responsible for his/her cache. Instead, we used to rely on mutual assistance among geocachers. One who visits a cache should be ready to repair it if needed (replace the broken container, dry its content, put a new logbook, etc.) Actually, we even used to recommend every geocacher to have a geocaching first-aid kit at hand.

 

My current question relates to such possible first-aid action. At geocaching.com it is suggested not to move a cache container (once found). We used to follow the same rule. If the cache needs some help it is recommended to call the cache owner and ask what to do. However, in some places there are no mobile networks or the cache owner is unaccessible at the moment. We don't have clear regulations for this case at our national website and rely on common sense. What if the cache is under clear threat? Let's say, some repairings were started a dozen meters away from the hiding place and it is most likely that the hiding place will be ruined in a day or two? Does this community consider it possible (if I cannot reach the cache owner immediately, of course) for me to move the cache to some other (safer) location and tell the cache owner about this sad situation afterwards?

[+niraD]

If the cache is threatened by imminent danger (construction, flooding, whatever), then I think it's reasonable to use your best judgement. Move the cache to safer ground, take it with you, whatever. But if the cache is no longer at the posted coordinates, then be sure to let the CO and others know as soon as possible.

 

For example, I once had the camouflage for a geocache fall apart in my hands. I wasn't able to repair the camouflage, and I wasn't able to re-hide the cache anywhere nearby without the camouflage. I took the cache and its broken camouflage with me, posted a Needs Maintenance log as soon as I could (immediately, using my phone), and contacted the CO as soon as I could (again, immediately, using my phone). The CO disabled the cache soon thereafter, we arranged a time for the CO to get the pieces from me, and the CO repaired, replaced, and reactivated the cache.

[+Isonzo Karst]

Move it and post the new coords in your log (unless it's the final of a multi or puzzle of course).

 

Someone moved one of mine about 70 feet this week. He found it totally exposed due to a fire, and shifted it to remaining cover. This is fine, and I appreciate it.

[+-CJ-]

if the cache is no longer at the posted coordinates, then be sure to let the CO and others know as soon as possible

 

Sure. Moreover, if I found that the cache has gone, and I'm pretty sure about this sad fact (e.g. I found the remains of the container which had been burned by some vandal as it happened once not far away from Moscow here), and I have my first-aid kit with me I would probably restore the cache then leave it "as is". Right?

 

I'm asking because I just returned from Europe doing some geocaching there (when I had time) and was surprised by reading logs by people who e.g. found a wet/soaked/unreadable logbook but did nothing, just put it back.

[+niraD]

I've added new log sheets to a LOT of geocaches. I keep them in my geocaching kit. I've occasionally done other minor repairs.

 

I might replace a broken container if I knew the CO was still active, and that I was really doing the CO a favor by replacing the broken container.

 

I would never leave a throw-down container for a cache that I couldn't find, no matter how certain I was that the cache was gone. I've been wrong about a cache being missing more than once, and I've told more than one CO where I found his cache because it wasn't where he expected it to be when he went to do maintenance. And I've found caches that acquired throw-down containers when the original (much more interesting) hide was still there, sometimes mere inches from the throw-down container.

[+lookout.]

some people play just for the numbers so when they see a wet logbook, they just put it back, end of story.

 

others have extra log books on hand and are happy to replace wet log books, it really depends on what type of cacher comes to find the cache.

 

Also I geocache all the time just on a whim, with no planning, take out the phone and see if there is one near, usually in that case all I have is a pen, so I couldn't have done anything to help the situation.

 

Plus some cache owners don't like it when you take out the log books, whether it be full, wet, or whatever, they like to keep it in the cache so others can see the past stories signatures.

[+The_Incredibles_]

The cache owner is supposed to be responsible for maintenance and usually it's possible because they live close enough. Therefore people will make a note if maintenance is needed, but won't do it themselves. Some of the people in my area, myself included, will go so far as to replace a logbook or dry a cache as needed, but most people won't. Occasionally I will replace a cache if the cache has special significance and the cache owner is unresponsive.

 

I can see, in your country, things need to be done differently due to the distances involved. If a cache needs to replaced, I think it's a service to the community to do so. And also, if you a cache is in danger, it would be fine to move it, include the new coordinates in your log and hopefully the cache owner will officially change them.

[+-CJ-]

Thank you all for your answers. They're important not only to me but to the young but growing community of Russian geocachers, some of whom are just tired to play the isolated Russian game with its own rules (sometimes rather strange) and have recently discovered the worldwide game for themselves recently.

 

Do they at geocaching.com have a kind of a geocaching repairing kit among all these FAQs, recommendations, etc.? I mean, not that kit you may find at some online stores but a list of things one is advised to keep at hand to repair a geocache? I haven't find such list yet.

[+The_Incredibles_]

Thank you all for your answers. They're important not only to me but to the young but growing community of Russian geocachers, some of whom are just tired to play the isolated Russian game with its own rules (sometimes rather strange) and have recently discovered the worldwide game for themselves recently.

 

Do they at geocaching.com have a kind of a geocaching repairing kit among all these FAQs, recommendations, etc.? I mean, not that kit you may find at some online stores but a list of things one is advised to keep at hand to repair a geocache? I haven't find such list yet.

 

I haven't seen anything official, but this is what I carry:

 

++Blank micro logs made on Rite in the Rain paper(2 sizes). I send you the files if you like.

++Facecloths and small towel to wipe caches down (moisture is a HUGE issue where I live)

++Flagging tape

Plastic baggies

Small notebook

Assorted small toys

Small roll duct tape + Swiss army knife (mostly here for 1st-aid purposes, but could come in handy in case of a cracked container)

 

I just added:

1 small lock n lock, containing small notebook, pencil and a few toys

 

I probably should add:

desiccant packets

 

If you wanted, you could also bring pens.

Edited November 21, 2012 by The_Incredibles_

[7rxc]

I like to carry as small (kids) toothbrush for cleaning seal grooves on caches. Dried on mud and leaves, sand etc. can easily spoil the chances that a container will seal up properly (if they bother to close it properly at all). This can help a lot, especially if you can easily remove the seal itself and replace it, but... you have to check it before disturbing, some are ready to fail due to cracking.

 

I try to carry a tube of silicone sealant that can be used to close up cracks on caches I can't replace for people. Again the idea is to do what you can and then do the NM for major repairs. Your actions are simply first aid patches. Dry it AMAP, clean the seals and then patch the cracks, the logs can be added to of course. Sometimes all I do is sharpen the pencil if there is no sharpener, once in a while i leave a cheap one when I can find them.

 

I can certainly understand the 'distance' and remoteness aspect, that fits the area I live in as well. Not a lot of public transportation either.

 

Doug 7rxc

[+hydnsek]

Thank you all for your answers. They're important not only to me but to the young but growing community of Russian geocachers, some of whom are just tired to play the isolated Russian game with its own rules (sometimes rather strange) and have recently discovered the worldwide game for themselves recently.

 

Do they at geocaching.com have a kind of a geocaching repairing kit among all these FAQs, recommendations, etc.? I mean, not that kit you may find at some online stores but a list of things one is advised to keep at hand to repair a geocache? I haven't find such list yet.

 

I haven't seen anything official, but this is what I carry:

 

++Blank micro logs made on Rite in the Rain paper(2 sizes). I send you the files if you like.

++Facecloths and small towel to wipe caches down (moisture is a HUGE issue where I live)

++Flagging tape

Plastic baggies

Small notebook

Assorted small toys

Small roll duct tape + Swiss army knife (mostly here for 1st-aid purposes, but could come in handy in case of a cracked container)

 

I just added:

1 small lock n lock, containing small notebook, pencil and a few toys

 

I probably should add:

desiccant packets

 

If you wanted, you could also bring pens.

This is a great list! Thanks for sharing; even us old-timers can get ideas from it.

[+-CJ-]

My own kit usually includes: a container (about one l), a couple of logbooks, micro container (with its own logsheet), pencils, scotch tape + scissors, paper, small zip-lock plastic bags, several souvenirs and a black plastic bag for camouflage purposes. If I know that the cache needs help before I go, I take everything that is necessary for this specific cache.

 

We've never thought however about such things as towels or silicone sealant. Sounds interesting.

 

It sounds strange however that there is no "official" recommendation on such a repairing kit at gc.com. From our Russian experience we know that many geocachers haven't aided the "problematic" caches not because they (geocachers) just "played for the numbers" but because they simply didn't have anything to restore a cache; they have never thought about taking a first-aid kit with them.

[+The_Incredibles_]

It sounds strange however that there is no "official" recommendation on such a repairing kit at gc.com. From our Russian experience we know that many geocachers haven't aided the "problematic" caches not because they (geocachers) just "played for the numbers" but because they simply didn't have anything to restore a cache; they have never thought about taking a first-aid kit with them.

 

You can always suggest they add it to the knowledge books. I guess the reason they don't have it right now is because - officially - cache owners are supposed to maintain their own caches...and being that it's their own caches, they'll know what sort of things to bring when doing a maintenance check.

[+-CJ-]

You can always suggest they add it to the knowledge books

 

Just thought that someone had already posted such request. I think Russia is not the only country in the world where cache owners cannot quickly repair their caches but have to rely on visitors instead.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

You can always suggest they add it to the knowledge books

 

Just thought that someone had already posted such request. I think Russia is not the only country in the world where cache owners cannot quickly repair their caches but have to rely on visitors instead.

 

You are probably right about that. There are quite a few relatively large countries that have very few caches that are visited infrequently. I was in a part of Malaysia a couple of months ago where there were only 10 caches within 500 miles and, from reading the logs on them, 3 of them were obviously missing.

 

The Groundspeak site addresses cache maintenance in a couple of ways. First, cache owners are expected to maintain every cache they own, and caches can not be published if it's at a location that is "too far" from the owners home location. Thus, you won't find many caches in very remote places simply because it would be too far away for a cache owner to maintain. It sounds like the Russian version of geocaching might allow these so called "vacation caches" to be placed by people that just live too far away to properly maintain them. Secondly, cache owners are expected to use the "disable cache" option to let others know when a cache is temporarily unavailable. Once a cache is disabled, an owner only has so much time to go out and fix the problem (though, sometimes other cachers do fix it). In any case, the "disabled" flag should tell other geocachers not to travel a long distance to a remote spot only to be disappointed by a missing or damaged cache.

[+-CJ-]

It sounds like the Russian version of geocaching might allow these so called "vacation caches" to be placed by people that just live too far away to properly maintain them.

 

You're right. Moreover, it seems to be an obvious way to play the game in our country. A cache owner cannot suggest any "maintenance plan" simply because no one knows about geocaching / GPS in the town where he's going to place his/her cache. It would take probably ten years for some enthusiasts to appear somewhere deeply in the Siberian taiga. During this period there would be no game at the vast territory of the country. So, placing a cache far from home location is not just a "vacation hobby" here, it seems to be the only way to promote geocaching in province. These efforts have proved to be effective: the very first caches in regions were mostly created by players from Moscow / SPb and this triggered the development of local geocaching. The gc.com policy you described earlier gives clear explanation why there will be no caches from in most of Russian regions at this website in the nearest future.

 

It took me about a year to wait for some geocachers to appear in Lviv (Western Ukraine) so they could help me with maintenance of my 11 caches in this city. During this period I had to use rare chances to visit Lviv (I live in Moscow, Russia) but mostly rely on cache visitors. Sadly, Russian cachers have been never really active in this part of Europe, and Western cachers often passed by the ruined hiding place - as I understand, most of them thought that the cache owner lived next door. Luckily, there were some enthusiasts who helped in several occasions. And this is why I pay so much attention to first-aid kits, practice and other things like that.

 

In any case, the "disabled" flag should tell other geocachers not to travel a long distance to a remote spot only to be disappointed by a missing or damaged cache.

 

I used this flag once (in most situations I was able to solve the problem relatively quickly). However, from my point of view (as a cache hunter) such flag would be not a warning about probable disappointment but (vice versa) a good chance to contact the cache owner and suggest him/her to do necessary maintenance. (At least we often do this here in Russia).

[+ras_oscar]

Everybody plays according to their own judgement. Here's mine. I carry a few cache repair items. If a Zlock log bag is torn I will replace it. If the log sheet is full I will add a new sheet. If the log is full and a new sheet won't fit (like a blinkey) I will put in a fresh log and offer the CO the opportunity to collect the old log at a mutually agreeable spot. If the log sheet is wet and the container is otherwise sound, i carry a towel to dry the sheet off. However, if the log sheet is wet bacause the container is compromized i will usually drop a fresh sheet into a new zlock and leave the pulpy mess as is. On one occasion I found a blinkey, and dropped the magnets where I could not retreive them. I took the cache home, PMd the CO that I was fixing the problem I created, purchased replacement magnets and returned the cache, PMing the CO that it was back in place. You should NEVER remove a cache, but in this case the cache was on a playground and there was no reasonable place to locate the cache within the posted coords without the magnets. In short, I do what I hope others would do if I had a cache that had minor issues that could re resolved in such a way. On only one occasion have I replaced a cache. I found the bottom of a blinkey with no cap and no log sheet. I put a new blinkey there with a cap and a fresh log. I PMd the Co explaining what I did and why ( because I had found what was most likely the remains of the cache. I received an appreciative reply. I would not have dreamed of doing that if I had not found a partial container.