Indiana's Mass Archive by the DNR

[+AmishHacker]

 

Information is posted in the Midwest Forums but I wanted to ask the question here as a general one.

 

Indiana DNR worked with Groundspeak to archive thousands of geocaches. Ever one on their land. Even ones that had proper approval. Some of these caches include historic ones and some of the first geo art... a smile face that is a blast to do. (One of the best days of caching for me ever)

 

http://www.in.gov/dnr/7488.htm

 

and here is the actual policy

 

http://www.in.gov/legislative/iac/20120926-IR-312120547NRA.xml.pdf

 

The problem is that with may of these caches that were in great shape... the original CO is no longer caching. Yes the original CO did a good job with the container and/or the community is responsible as a whole and maintains them....AND guess how many Travel Bugs just went bye bye. I rescued as many as I could.

 

Has this happened in any other states that you know of? I have not meet another Indiana cacher that is cool with this. I believe it is a negative for the sport and the DNR. What are your thoughts?

 

Now guess how much geo TRASH they have on their land.... ohhhh a thousand containers worth.

[+SwineFlew]

So far, nothing like that in my state (Oregon). I keep a full database of the whole state and nothing of max archiving of yet.

[GrandPotentate]

I wonder if you go through the licensing process for the historic caches, if the reviewer would unarchive them

[+Manville Possum]

Whats next, geocaches on NFS propertys? They require permits too now in some places, and caches were approved after the rules were changed in 2005 or 2006. Was it just over-sight of Groundspeak, or is it that NFS wants $59 per year to place a geocache? Beats me, but I would not pay $59 per year to hide a geocache. I can buy a permit to Bear hunt cheaper.

 

http://www.dcr.virginia.gov/state_parks/geocache.shtml

Edited November 10, 2012 by Manville Possum Hunters

[+AmishHacker]

I wonder if you go through the licensing process for the historic caches, if the reviewer would unarchive them

 

If the original CO does not do the application process in the next 28 days it will be gone forever. You can not take over a cache without the CO filling out a form.

[Keystone]

I wonder if you go through the licensing process for the historic caches, if the reviewer would unarchive them

 

If the original CO does not do the application process in the next 28 days it will be gone forever. You can not take over a cache without the CO filling out a form.

If you want to have a separate thread, please stay on topic. This one is a comparative survey. Fine details of the Indiana policy can be discussed in the regional forum thread, already open. Thanks.

[Keystone]

And, getting back to the topic, there are certainly other examples. Think "Appalachian Trail" for starters.

[+jellis]

NDOT for the ET Hwy but of course we know why and what happened next.

[+The_Incredibles_]

It doesn't sound like they are against geocaching. They just want a fresh start to ensure all caches have proper licenses.

 

Cache containers belonging to inactive cachers can be reused by others.

 

Active cachers can just fill out and submit another form.

 

It will take an organized effort to make sure each container is collected or reused, but other than that, I don't see the big deal.

[GrandPotentate]

If the CO's in Indiana (or any area that requires permits) are no longer active members of the geocaching world, then they probably have not renewed the permits required my the property manager and probably should have their caches archived since they no longer have proper permission to have a cache at that location. In my area, there is a county that requires a two-year permit to place a geocache on their property, after the permit is expired, the cache is to be archived or relocated a set distance away from the original location.

[+jellis]

But I do like the idea of permits. In WA their state parks require permits. I put 3 in one park and I liked that they had a way to get a hold of me if there was an issue with the cache, like if they needed it moved or removed. The rangers know where they all are too if someone reports they found something that didn't look right.

I wish more parks would do that.

Edited November 10, 2012 by jellis

[JASTA 11]

Whats next, geocaches on NFS propertys? They require permits too now in some places, and caches were approved after the rules were changed in 2005 or 2006. Was it just over-sight of Groundspeak, or is it that NFS wants $59 per year to place a geocache? Beats me, but I would not pay $59 per year to hide a geocache. I can buy a permit to Bear hunt cheaper.

 

http://www.dcr.virginia.gov/state_parks/geocache.shtml

 

The NFS charges a fee?

 

Is that a local thing 'cause up in the White Mountains NF there is no fee.

 

At least not yet.

[+Viajero Perdido]

Thanks to all who publicize our semi-secret game, the inevitable happens sooner.

[GrandPotentate]

Thanks to all who publicize our semi-secret game, the inevitable happens sooner.

 

#1 If no one publicized our semi-secret game, then you nor I would have known about geocaching in the first place.

 

#2 I have found that with more people knowing that this exists, it is a lot easier to get permission from landowners. I actually had a landowner get a hold of the county park service looking for someone to place and maintain geocaches on their property.

[+lamoracke]

Seems a very organized policy, definitely its something they felt they needed to address with a full policy...so, these renewals have no cost? That is good. If it did say the cost on the form, I do not know, I could not get into that particular link.

 

I wonder what would stop someone from submitting an application with their old GC#, get approval, and then ask for unarchival. Just saying in theory.

[+Manville Possum]

Whats next, geocaches on NFS propertys? They require permits too now in some places, and caches were approved after the rules were changed in 2005 or 2006. Was it just over-sight of Groundspeak, or is it that NFS wants $59 per year to place a geocache? Beats me, but I would not pay $59 per year to hide a geocache. I can buy a permit to Bear hunt cheaper.

 

http://www.dcr.virginia.gov/state_parks/geocache.shtml

 

The NFS charges a fee?

 

Is that a local thing 'cause up in the White Mountains NF there is no fee.

 

At least not yet.

 

Yes, and I was told that in one Ranger district that geocaches are unattended property and considered litter. Virtual listings on established trails are fine and require no permit. Here is a link to an old thread, and there are several more on this site.

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=279658&st=0&p=4802921&hl=nfs property&fromsearch=1entry4802921

 

I tryed to post the link to geocaching policy in George Washington & Jefferson NF here in Virginia, but the server is down. But where allowed by permit, it's $59 per year for each placement. The last two placements I submitted near NFS property were almost rejected. I had to prove that they were not on NFS property. I'm a Waymarker, so I list boundry markers first. One of the listings is at a parking area to a trail head just off a public road. We enjoy geocaching and hiking, and we use our State Parks. Illegal placements have had a negative impact on our sport. Try publishing a geocache in a Tennessee State Park. Bet you can't.

[7rxc]

Anyone figure out how this affects other games or for that matter cache listing services?

 

All I see mentioned are Geocaching.com and Earthcache.com products. I bet there are some letterboxes, etc. out there in the parks.

 

If the GC ones get renewed, or new ones licensed, does that mean all the others are locked out or do they have their own limits individually. That could prove more of a headache than mere 'starting from scratch' with the records/licences.

 

It could work both ways as well since any group might lock out another inadvertently, or claim at least partial representation.

 

Edit: from AH doc link.

2. Definitions

(1) "Cache" means a container that is used in association with geocaching. snip

(2) snip

(3) snip

(4) snip

(5) "Geocaching" means a game pursued by GPS users. An individual or organization places a cache or caches and shares its or their location on the Internet. A participant in the game applies the GPS coordinates to locate a target cache or caches. When located, the participant records the find on a designated website such as www.geocaching.com. The game may provide that objects are traded at the cache.

(6) snip

 

I see this does allow for other listing services, but does restrict it to Geocaching as defined.

Apparently.

 

Doug 7rxc

Edited November 10, 2012 by 7rxc

[+Manville Possum]

Anyone figure out how this affects other games or for that matter cache listing services?

 

All I see mentioned are Geocaching.com and Earthcache.com products. I bet there are some letterboxes, etc. out there in the parks.

 

If the GC ones get renewed, or new ones licensed, does that mean all the others are locked out or do they have their own limits individually. That could prove more of a headache than mere 'starting from scratch' with the records/licences.

 

It could work both ways as well since any group might lock out another inadvertently, or claim at least partial representation.

 

Edit: from AH doc link.

2. Definitions

(1) "Cache" means a container that is used in association with geocaching. snip

(2) snip

(3) snip

(4) snip

(5) "Geocaching" means a game pursued by GPS users. An individual or organization places a cache or caches and shares its or their location on the Internet. A participant in the game applies the GPS coordinates to locate a target cache or caches. When located, the participant records the find on a designated website such as www.geocaching.com. The game may provide that objects are traded at the cache.

(6) snip

 

I see this does allow for other listing services, but does restrict it to Geocaching as defined.

Apparently.

 

Doug 7rxc

 

I can say that I'm glad to see Groundspeak stepping forward in the best interest of geocachers. I know that we the geocachers are Groundspeaks bread and butter, but this company also is there for us. Proof is right there on the State web sites.

I don't know much about Letterboxing, but I have seen it listed on some State sites also.

EarthCaches are cool too, but I can't believe they left out Waymarking. I enjoy it much.

Here is a link about geocaching and Letterboxing in Virginia.

http://www.virginia.org/geocaching/

Edited November 11, 2012 by Manville Possum Hunters

[+NeverSummer]

It looks like the caches can be re- licensed if an owner likes. This is, certainly, an interesting turn of events. Perhaps we all can coordinate a "take a state/federal land manager geocaching event" to be sure they understand the game...and start playing too!

[+BAMBOOZLE]

Louisiana requires licenses for caches in all state parks. I hid one about 8 years before the policy.....they sent me a nice letter saying how much they appreciated caches in their parks and the extra traffic they bring but the license is now policy.....they included a license and a self addressed envelope.....no money involved.

 

Not really a big deal but I miss the old days.

[+Dgwphotos]

Thanks to all who publicize our semi-secret game, the inevitable happens sooner.

There's a difference between Government agencies and the average population of muggles.

[AZcachemeister]

Seems like a rather heavy-handed approach to the perceived issue.

 

But, Geocaching by permit beats no Geocaching at all.

 

With the additional effort required, I'll be this increases the overall quality of caches within their sphere of control. Personally I would consider it a 'KEEP OUT' notice.

 

On the other hand, I'll bet the relative number of guardrail, LPH, and similar caches is going to increase in Indiana.

[+briansnat]

Thanks to all who publicize our semi-secret game, the inevitable happens sooner.

 

This stuff happened a lot before our sport was widely known. I think it was 2001 or 2002 when the NPS banned geocaching and also when NY's DEC banned geocaching on their lands. As we've become more prominent more and more governmental entities have embraced geocaching. NY's DEC lifted their ban and now has one of the most liberal geocaching policies around. Even the NPS has softened their stance and in one case worked with geocachers to create a geo trail. With close to 2 million geocaches there is no way we could could continue to remain under the radar.

 

Today several state park systems now promote geocaching on their websites and many have developed geocaching friendly policies, as have many town and county park systems throughout the country.

 

Our prominence has actually increased our acceptance in many places.