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Time to archive the puzzle cache.


Roman!

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PS- As for angst for other hiders with regard to puzzle caches, there must be the same angst when you go to a really beautiful park with trails, ponds, and the like, only to find a micro under a lamp post. Or a film can under a trash can. I would like to hide a big, juicy ammo can nearby at one of the pretty spots, but can't because those dorky caches are too close. Ya dig?

 

PPS- I still like puzzle caches.

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Whereigos, letterboxes, events and earth caches all promote you to get outdoors, puzzles generally promote you spending more time indoors, that's the difference and that's why I say they have nothing to do with Geocaching.

 

You do realize that after solving the puzzle, you still need to go out and find the geocache, right? Puzzle caches promote you getting outdoors just as much as traditional caches. The whole point of solving the puzzle is to figure out where the cache is hidden. If your philosophy is that sitting in front of a computer has nothing to do with geocaching, then I'm sure you don't sit down and log your finds as that has nothing to do with geocaching, either.

 

I get it, for some they are fun but why can't I make a cache requiring the finder to first have a beer with me before getting the final coordinates, that might be fun too and has as much, if not more to do with Geocaching.

 

Nothing is stopping you from creating a cache like that. It just won't be published on this site. Geocaching exists outside of geocaching.com. Feel free to create any kind of cache you want, with whatever demands you want on how to find it. Then it's just a matter of advertising it to the rest of the world. Let us know how that works out for you.

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In this case the OP better never get over to Europe- most caches in places like Germany are either puzzles or multis. ;)

 

Personally I enjoy easy puzzles but the ones that take hours not so much for the most part- with the exception of some topics I'm particularly interested in I just don't think I get as much enjoyment out of it versus doing other things. The same goes for 20 step multis, by the way, as in my experience I often have trouble with one step so I feel like I've "wasted" an afternoon... but then to each his or her own.

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I guess we are getting to the point here where we have get a definition of geocaching.

 

A non geocaching friend once said that he didnt see the point of geocaching. You put coords in a gps and you follow the gps to the cache. Didnt sound like fun, The gps did all the work so it was easy.

 

Of course I could go into stuff like software, maps, GSAK, beautiful places, great hikes, trips, events, geobuddies, etc. But guess someone would ask what that has to do with following your gps to a cache.

 

I love all aspects of geocaching. Sometimes you get the coords from a cache page and sometimes you have to figure them out in a puzzle. Sometimes you drive to walmart and get a LPC and sometimes we visit our son in California and go hiking to a cche in the mountains.

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Unknown/puzzle/mystery caches add a bit of variety to our game. Yes, they can sometimes offer up some frustration too (both solving and with placement of new caches) but that frustration is usually short lived. I'll be the first to admit that i am not good at solving puzzle caches but i enjoy tackling them. I like having that feeling of accomplishment when i do actually figure one out. It's just too easy to simply walk away from the ones that are too hard, tedious, monotonous, or just plain no fun for me. They certainly don't have to be archived because some of them them are not to my liking..

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In this case the OP better never get over to Europe- most caches in places like Germany are either puzzles or multis. ;)

 

I'm in the UK and here we aren't fully part of Europe :) but I agree there are more puzzles there. (And multis; though the OP is not against multis).

 

Based on a pocket query I happen to have from a trip to Germany last week, in that specific area about 20% were puzzles. (26% were Multis). That is not statistically valid for all of Germany, but just a data point.

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I guess we are getting to the point here where we have get a definition of geocaching.

 

A non geocaching friend once said that he didnt see the point of geocaching. You put coords in a gps and you follow the gps to the cache. Didnt sound like fun, The gps did all the work so it was easy.

 

Of course I could go into stuff like software, maps, GSAK, beautiful places, great hikes, trips, events, geobuddies, etc. But guess someone would ask what that has to do with following your gps to a cache.

 

I love all aspects of geocaching. Sometimes you get the coords from a cache page and sometimes you have to figure them out in a puzzle. Sometimes you drive to walmart and get a LPC and sometimes we visit our son in California and go hiking to a cche in the mountains.

 

I agree, it all depends on the definition of what geocaching is. According to what I understand the OP to be promoting, the only that counts as a geocache is a traditional cache that is not hard to find.

 

Why not hard to find? Because if it is hard to find, that means it is a problem or enigma that tests the ingenuity of the finder. And that is the definition of a puzzle.

 

So, no field puzzles, no chirps, no events, no multis. Nothing but easy to find containers.

 

I think the puzzle aspect of geocaching is inherent to the game. Some geocaches are about getting to a location to find something that is hidden (that's a puzzle) and some are about solving a puzzle to get to the location to find something. Hey that makes puzzle caches twice as cachey as regular one because you get twice the challenge.

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PS- As for angst for other hiders with regard to puzzle caches, there must be the same angst when you go to a really beautiful park with trails, ponds, and the like, only to find a micro under a lamp post. Or a film can under a trash can. I would like to hide a big, juicy ammo can nearby at one of the pretty spots, but can't because those dorky caches are too close. Ya dig?

 

PPS- I still like puzzle caches.

 

The difference, as already mentioned, is that we already KNOW the co-ordinates for all these other "dorky caches" (your words) and can thus avoid them. It's not, "Oh no, I can't put a cache here." It's, "I wonder if there are any puzzle finals here that would prevent me from putting a cache here." Ya, I dig.

 

Mrs. Car54

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Interesting. Roman! keeps asking, "What do puzzles have to do with geocaching", and the only answer seems to be "I like puzzles". I like oranges, but it has nothing to do with geocaching.

 

As others have said, you then need to define geocaching. If it is just about finding a physical box at the posted coordinates, what do events have to do with geocaching? Earth caches?

 

Puzzles are part of the geocaching.com game as defined today. They require use of a GPS to find a geocache. They are essentially a Traditional or Multi cache which in addition to GPS use require some additional information. That information is relevant to the geocaching.com game as defined today. An orange is not(unless the puzzle is based on oranges). As others have said - if geocaching is about finding hidden boxes, a puzzle cache simply adds an additional mental dimension to that.

 

Could geocaching survive without puzzle caches? Certainly.

 

Given that puzzles are part of the game we play today, I think the question "would the game be better or worse without puzzles" is more relevant than "what do puzzles have to do with geocaching".

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I know the advice is often given to ask a local reviewer if the co-ords of your proposed cache are clear before you go to a lot of effort setting up a cache. What if the website let you do that? Enter your co-ords and get a "Y/N" for proximity issues. Hmmm, then I suppose it would be possible for cachers to hone in on the location of a puzzle final using that tool. Oh well, I got nothing. :(

 

Mrs. Car54

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I know the advice is often given to ask a local reviewer if the co-ords of your proposed cache are clear before you go to a lot of effort setting up a cache. What if the website let you do that? Enter your co-ords and get a "Y/N" for proximity issues. Hmmm, then I suppose it would be possible for cachers to hone in on the location of a puzzle final using that tool. Oh well, I got nothing. :(

 

Mrs. Car54

 

While it does lead to the possibility of brute forcing a puzzle solution, there ought to be ways of doing it that would prevent that. Maybe one or two tries per unpublished cache.

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Maybe I'm just lucky to live in an area with a hugely diverse population of creative puzzlers. If all of the puzzles here just required Googling, I'd be bored with them too.

 

The hides are lame, but why take up space in a nice park with a cache that will only be found once a month at most? Leave the parks to the Traditionals, Multis, Letterboxes and Wherigoes.

 

Interesting. Roman! keeps asking, "What do puzzles have to do with geocaching", and the only answer seems to be "I like puzzles". I like oranges, but it has nothing to do with geocaching.

 

What don't puzzles have to do with caching? Geocaching is about using technology to take you to a place so you can find a hidden container. With puzzles, you do it twice; first you must "find" the solution (which is a fun challenge for me), and then you have to go there and find the cache (which is also lots of fun for me).

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I guess we are getting to the point here where we have get a definition of geocaching............

 

I agree, it all depends on the definition of what geocaching is. According to what I understand the OP to be promoting, the only that counts as a geocache is a traditional cache that is not hard to find.

 

Why not hard to find? Because if it is hard to find, that means it is a problem or enigma that tests the ingenuity of the finder. And that is the definition of a puzzle.

..............

 

I really like your point here. If geocaching is simply following your gps to a location to get the box placed there, then there should not be all the ingenious camos thatsometimes have you looking for hours such as this one where the fun was trying to locate the cache once you got there. A ton of DNF before it was finally located

 

http://coord.info/GC3K7Z1

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Geocaching has gotten too easy. Many caches are found without GPS units by looking at Google maps either on the page, or with an app. The GPS part has nearly been eliminated. Puzzle caches bring the treasure hunting part back into play, and also by solving the puzzle to find actual GPSr coordinates.

 

As I said before, think of them as PMO caches, although access is gained by using other tools, rather than the $30 per year. :D

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I don't care for puzzles, and have don't very few of them. However, there are a lot of players that do enjoy them, and I am not so self centered as to think this game of Geocaching is set up only for me.

 

A great many people really do enjoy them. What would make me think because I don't like them, others should not have them?

 

I do agree the problem with hiding a cache, without knowing where the multis and puzzles are is a real problem. However, getting rid of either type of cache is not the solution.

 

Perhaps you could let us know what else in this life bothers you so we can change those things to suit you also.

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My argument is puzzles have nothing to do with Geocaching
I just took a look at a bookmark list of some of the early caches. They are NOT all traditional caches. The idea of doing something more to find the cache - something other than navigating to the posted coordinates and finding the cache at that location - has been part of geocaching for a LONG time.

 

And FWIW, my experience is that some of the older caches listed as traditional caches wouldn't be listed as traditional caches today, because they incorporate some of these multi-stage and puzzle elements too.

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First of all, a clarification. These types of caches aren't "Puzzle" caches. They are "Mystery" caches.

 

Seond, geocaching is:

Finding a hidden container, signing the log, making trades if you like, and logging your find online.

 

I see nothing "non geocaching-related" about puzzles. The actual find gets you outside. Getting the coords is the only difference.

 

I smell something along the lines of frustration with solving mystery caches and/or placing a new cache. :ph34r:

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Interesting. Roman! keeps asking, "What do puzzles have to do with geocaching", and the only answer seems to be "I like puzzles". I like oranges, but it has nothing to do with geocaching.

 

In answer to your question here are my thoughts on what puzzles can have to do with geocaching:

 

- Some puzzles have questions specifically linked to the site/park/building you are visiting to give additional information.

- A Puzzle icon may be used to sit on a point of interest to bring your attention to it with some simple questions leading you to an offset cache nearby that cant be placed at the site itself.

- Some caches may be linked to an historical figure/pastime so the puzzle could give interesting information regarding this topic.

- There are some great series of puzzle caches (we have a really good one in Coventry) giving a varied history of a town or city with each cache being placed in a location linked to that particular bit of information.

- Some puzzles link in nicely with the type of container used at GZ or the way the cache has been hidden.

- Some puzzles follow a quirky theme to enhance a Geocaching trip especially where kids could have some input at the ouset and then gain some fun/accomplishment when making the find.

- Geocaching trips may coincide with a memorable event/special occasion or regualr festival where puzzle information could be utilised to highlight the event and provide background to its exsistence.

- Geocaching involves a number of additional skills other than sitting at the computer. Understanding and learning about navigationa/geographical techniques as part of a puzzle could directly improve your geocaching experience.

- Puzzle caches set as a bonus for a series, although my prerequisite of this one is that the cachers do have to work a bit to collect the puzzle info and the bonus cache is actually a bonus when located.

- Some puzzles include pictures/maps etc challenging cachers not only to gain the co-ordinates but also using the puzzle information to get to GZ.

- Some puzzles don't even produce a set of co-ordinates but combined with some geocaching experience can lead to a different kind of method to find the cache.

 

I am sure cachers can provide many other puzzle examples that are linked to, or compliment, a caching experience. I appreciate that many other puzzles have little to do with the actual environment they are placed but for these I can just say that I enjoy puzzles anyway and if they lead to a cache then so much the better.

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The beauty of the Unknown cache type, and that's why I believe it is called such, is to provide a platform to express creativity. Not every Unknown cache requires someone to spend hours inside doing research. In fact, one of my favorite caches, regardless of type, is done entirely outside, yet in no way could this be considered a "traditional" cache: http://coord.info/GC232EV

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I guess we are getting to the point here where we have get a definition of geocaching.

 

Groundspeak defines traditional caches, multi-caches, virtual caches, webcam caches, Wherigo caches, letterbox hybrids, events caches, and unknown/mystery ...did I miss any...all as geocaches. In the context of the game that well all play, using Groundspeaks database of what they include as a type of geocache, that's really the only definition of a geocache that matters.

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Traditional caches are food.

 

Puzzle caches are spicy food. Another page on the menu.

 

That is a good one.

 

Puzzle caches are a different beast. I have gone thru stages with puzzle caches. At the beginning I hated them, too much work. I started solving some, it was fun. Start working a few more complicated ones (like the one that was posted earlier) and find them to be a PITA, then I start avoiding them again. I have gotten back to solving a few, but they still frustrate me. I don't really have too much fun tromping around when it is cold and rainy, so I can hang out inside and do something towards finding a cache. Now if I solved a puzzle and it is raining, I may go for the find (I did this just last week). Funny thing is most CO's will help out if you are stuck or just use a PAF to help. They want their cache to be found. It is probably killing that CO from the earlier one referenced that no one has found it, but at the same time enjoyable to him.

 

To me, nano's in a pine trees and micro's in the woods are pointless. These frustrate me more than a PITA puzzle. LPC's are kind of pointless but are there for the numbers people. If you have a place in the wood's to hide a small or larger, do it. I hate wasting time looking for nano's/micro's in trees & logs. So those should be archived.

 

I cannot wait to do the one tachoknight referenced. So sorry, just because you do not like them does not mean they should be archived. Don't do them and work with your reviewers one cache placements.

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The beauty of the Unknown cache type, and that's why I believe it is called such, is to provide a platform to express creativity. Not every Unknown cache requires someone to spend hours inside doing research. In fact, one of my favorite caches, regardless of type, is done entirely outside, yet in no way could this be considered a "traditional" cache: http://coord.info/GC232EV

 

It's a cache type with 3 names. In the guidelines it is called "Mystery/Puzzle". On the cache submission page it is "Unknown", where Unknown "Includes Mystery, Puzzle and Challenge caches".

 

I agree with the point above; it was a point I was also trying to make. The "?" Icon cache covers many variations; they are not all "solve a puzzle at home and get the final coordinates". If one wants to stop "solve a puzzle at home and get the final coordinates" but still allow other types of "?" caches then some work would need to be done to define what was allowed. One such example I've found are caches hidden in underground mines. You use the GPS to get to find the way in, but once inside there is no GPS signal. Some of the best caches I've ever done.

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I really do hate puzzle caches, the puzzles you have to solve at home, but I've done some pretty cool ? caches that did not require solving a puzzle. For the most part I'll look at a ? Cache for 5 minutes and if I can't figure it out I won't try further.

 

Should ? Caches be archived? No, I was just creating a discussion, I know lots of people who like them, in fact I cache with one who is a master of creating and solving them and I'll tag along when he has one to find but I really do hate them.

 

But I still feel they have nothing to do with the sprit of Geocaching.

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At its simplest level, geocaching requires these 8 steps:

 

Register for a free Basic Membership.

Visit the "Hide & Seek a Cache" page.

Enter your postal code and click "search."

Choose any geocache from the list and click on its name.

Enter the coordinates of the geocache into your GPS Device.

Use your GPS device to assist you in finding the hidden geocache.

Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.

Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

 

Look at #5, enter the coordinates......

Nowhere does it say figure out where the coordinates are first.

At its simplest level there should be only traditionals.

Edited by Roman!
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I guess we are getting to the point here where we have get a definition of geocaching.
I think it has been done. The first 2 parts pretty much sum it up.
Including the last line of part 2:

 

"There are many other levels to the game. Keep reading the guide to learn more!"

Roman!: This :rolleyes:

 

Don't nitpick the semantics. You enter the coords when you have them. Sometimes it takes more work. See last line of part 2.

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Interestingly enough, I went on a vacation to Cape Cod in August. I greatly enjoy Cape Cod and the hiking and biking there, which incorporate caching into the mix. I was left a bit disappointed in the selection I found this past summer. Lousy hides, worse maint and injudicious use of nano containers, the biking and hiking were still inviting. Upon my return I looked anew at some local puzzles hidden by Harry Dolphin/ Andy Bear. They are notoriously difficult, but I decided to give them a try. Solving several of them gave me a new outlet and a new enjoyment of the game. I too engage in somewhat cerebral pursuits at work and previously found the puzzle to be more trouble than pleasure.

But after engaging several I find that my former preconceived notions were ill founded. To each his own. Archiving different cache types because of personal notions of their proper inclusion in the "game " will only lead to a repeat of the virtual and web cam and locationless debacles we have been witness to. Cache on.

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Should ? Caches be archived? No, I was just creating a discussion
But you still aren't trolling the forums, right?

 

At its simplest level there should be only traditionals.
Sure, at its simplest level, there are only traditional caches. Actually, when geocaching.com highlights "beginner caches", they highlight traditional caches with low difficulty, that are larger than a micro, recently found by others, and have no problems reported. So I suppose at its simplest level, that's what geocaching is like.

 

But if geocaching existed only at the simplest level, I know I would no longer be geocaching. And I wouldn't have the pleasure of reading logs like this one:

airsax found Siege Perilous

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Should ? Caches be archived? No, I was just creating a discussion
But you still aren't trolling the forums, right?

 

At its simplest level there should be only traditionals.
Sure, at its simplest level, there are only traditional caches. Actually, when geocaching.com highlights "beginner caches", they highlight traditional caches with low difficulty, that are larger than a micro, recently found by others, and have no problems reported. So I suppose at its simplest level, that's what geocaching is like.

 

But if geocaching existed only at the simplest level, I know I would no longer be geocaching. And I wouldn't have the pleasure of reading logs like this one:

airsax found Siege Perilous

 

Ah but if it was a traditional I'm sure the log would have been the same as its the journey not the destination that makes that cache, in fact by not being a traditional may be a large part of the fact it's only been found twice.

Edited by Roman!
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Not sure if all puzzles should go, but they do have an inherent shield against archival. I've seen puzzles sit for years with no activity. We always say here in the forum that you shouldn't post a NA w/o first searching. And even then, there should be multiple DNFs, right? Some puzzles do not get enough traffic to ever "qualify" for archival. So they sit.

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I hate puzzles!

 

Who's with me?

 

Not me. I think the occasional puzzle is fun. But hey, nobody's forcing you to solve them or seek them. If you hate 'em so much, remove them from your PQs or make a filter to ignore them. Easy peasy. We have our kind of fun, you have yours.

 

-Ron

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Not sure if all puzzles should go, but they do have an inherent shield against archival. I've seen puzzles sit for years with no activity. We always say here in the forum that you shouldn't post a NA w/o first searching. And even then, there should be multiple DNFs, right? Some puzzles do not get enough traffic to ever "qualify" for archival. So they sit.

See Step 5.

 

Groundspeak assumes that cache owners are keeping up with their responsibilties to their geocache.

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Not to nit-pick a nit-pick...

 

...but...the original intent of Geocaching (as we now call it) was to test the accuracy of the GPS System...from there...the doors flew open...the hobby has evolved and changed through the years...and the only safe bet is that it will continue to evolve and change over the years...some changes good...some changes bad...but even the bad ones are learned from...

 

Where do I stand on Puzzles...

-It all depends on the puzzle and the mood I am in. I enjoy the occasional puzzle...gets the brain moving (instead of just the feet) B)

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Not to nit-pick a nit-pick...

 

...but...the original intent of Geocaching (as we now call it) was to test the accuracy of the GPS System...from there...the doors flew open...the hobby has evolved and changed through the years...and the only safe bet is that it will continue to evolve and change over the years...some changes good...some changes bad...but even the bad ones are learned from...

 

Where do I stand on Puzzles...

-It all depends on the puzzle and the mood I am in. I enjoy the occasional puzzle...gets the brain moving (instead of just the feet) B)

to nit-pick and nit-picked nit-pick, wasn't it all first called a "Great American GPS Stash hunt"ing? Geocaching, as we call it, arrived with this website in September, 2000. With it came some of the basics of geocaching we have still today.

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At its simplest level, geocaching requires these 8 steps:

 

Register for a free Basic Membership.

Visit the "Hide & Seek a Cache" page.

Enter your postal code and click "search."

Choose any geocache from the list and click on its name.

Enter the coordinates of the geocache into your GPS Device.

Use your GPS device to assist you in finding the hidden geocache.

Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.

Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

 

Look at #5, enter the coordinates......

Nowhere does it say figure out where the coordinates are first.

At its simplest level there should be only traditionals.

 

Look at #4:

Choose any geocache from the list and click on its name.

 

The cache types page (http://www.geocaching.com/about/cache_types.aspx) defines all the different types of geocaches from the perspective of Groundspeak, the site we all primarily use for playing this game we call Geocaching. Lots of people may have there own idea for what is a geocache or what may be the spirit of geocaching but the only definition that really matters is the one provided to use by the site we all use to play the game.

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But if geocaching existed only at the simplest level, I know I would no longer be geocaching. And I wouldn't have the pleasure of reading logs like this one:

airsax found Siege Perilous

Ah but if it was a traditional I'm sure the log would have been the same as its the journey not the destination that makes that cache, in fact by not being a traditional may be a large part of the fact it's only been found twice.
FWIW, there are traditional caches near the one airsax found. They are still lonely. This particular multi-cache was the "epic cache" she chose to build her trip upon.
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At its simplest level, geocaching requires these 8 steps:

 

Register for a free Basic Membership.

Visit the "Hide & Seek a Cache" page.

Enter your postal code and click "search."

Choose any geocache from the list and click on its name.

Enter the coordinates of the geocache into your GPS Device.

Use your GPS device to assist you in finding the hidden geocache.

Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.

Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

 

Look at #5, enter the coordinates......

Nowhere does it say figure out where the coordinates are first.

At its simplest level there should be only traditionals.

 

How come, looking at your profile, you seem to really enjoy doing some of your local Puzzle caches (you even completed one today and favourited one earlier in the week) but then have such negative comments in this forum.

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I really do hate puzzle caches, the puzzles you have to solve at home, but I've done some pretty cool ? caches that did not require solving a puzzle. For the most part I'll look at a ? Cache for 5 minutes and if I can't figure it out I won't try further.

 

Should ? Caches be archived? No, I was just creating a discussion, I know lots of people who like them, in fact I cache with one who is a master of creating and solving them and I'll tag along when he has one to find but I really do hate them.

 

But I still feel they have nothing to do with the sprit of Geocaching.

 

 

Yet you take no notice of the overwhelming support, passion and views of a good number of geocachers that feel it epitomises the spirit of geocaching.

 

PS - I have never seen a post with so many contradictions as the one above.

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Not sure if all puzzles should go, but they do have an inherent shield against archival. I've seen puzzles sit for years with no activity. We always say here in the forum that you shouldn't post a NA w/o first searching. And even then, there should be multiple DNFs, right? Some puzzles do not get enough traffic to ever "qualify" for archival. So they sit.

See Step 5.

 

Groundspeak assumes that cache owners are keeping up with their responsibilties to their geocache.

I know this is borderline hijacking. Step 5 doesn't pertain to my comment. COs ignore caches all the time. That's why cachers have the NA log option. I don't believe I'm aware of many traditionals that sit that long w/o at least visits. Cachers are drawn to caches that have not been found in a long time...unless they are puzzles. Heck, the darn thing may not be solvable w/o a PAF...who knows?

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Not sure if all puzzles should go, but they do have an inherent shield against archival. I've seen puzzles sit for years with no activity. We always say here in the forum that you shouldn't post a NA w/o first searching. And even then, there should be multiple DNFs, right? Some puzzles do not get enough traffic to ever "qualify" for archival. So they sit.

See Step 5.

 

Groundspeak assumes that cache owners are keeping up with their responsibilties to their geocache.

I know this is borderline hijacking. Step 5 doesn't pertain to my comment. COs ignore caches all the time. That's why cachers have the NA log option. I don't believe I'm aware of many traditionals that sit that long w/o at least visits. Cachers are drawn to caches that have not been found in a long time...unless they are puzzles. Heck, the darn thing may not be solvable w/o a PAF...who knows?

 

It's certainly related. If you say Mystery/Unknown cache types have a tendancy to "sit" and might "qualify for archival", then Step #5 above applies directly. If an owner isn't maintaining their cache, then that's it. However, you'd have to find it to know from the outside if it is in need of attention. Otherwise, you're just guessing.

 

You claim that they can sometimes be shielded from archival. Well, if a CO does what Groundspeak mentions that comes with cache ownership (maintenance visits), it should be in fine shape. If they shirk their duties, there's no way to know. I get it. But we should assume everything is ok even if a cache isn't found for a year. Call me an optimist. If you don't think it's ok, get out there and find it.

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Some puzzles do not get enough traffic to ever "qualify" for archival. So they sit.
This isn't specific to puzzles. It applies to all "lonely" caches, whether their loneliness is caused by a challenging puzzle, by difficult terrain, or by anything else. If a cache hasn't been found or DNF'ed for 5 years, it doesn't really matter why no one has attempted it for 5 years, at least as far as "qualifying for archival" goes.
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I can't "just not do them". They affect my ability to know where I can hide a cache.

 

:signalviolin:

 

Have the actual caches become so boring that people would rather sit in front of your computers for hours doing puzzles instead?

 

Have the actual caches become so boring you would rather sit in front of your computer discussing why people shouldn't be sitting in front of their computers? :blink::anibad:

 

This is a silly argument as you can't be out caching all the time, sometimes it nice to post here. My argument is puzzles have nothing to do with Geocaching, all you are doing is deflecting.

 

All anyone has done is give other examples of my point but no one actually pointed out why puzzles belong, in a way you all proved they should be done away with.

 

They're puzzle caches, after I apply myself to solving the initial stage of the cache I go outside (usually with my 3 small sons) for a nice walk and search in nature. Surprisingly, I usually find a big ol ammo can in some out of the way natural area instead of a nano or keyholder in a parking lot. :ph34r:

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