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ShadowAce

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Ok all I have been waiting for someone to think of this, but looks as if no one will so I will approach it. Magnetic Strips Placed on Poles or Boxes we have all found them they have the log either Pasted on Back or I have see them manufactured with a wipe off log. Some say Warning High Voltage, some say something else. These are not "Containers" yet they are accepted as a nice evil Cache and no one complains. There is no difference in Magnetic non-containers and a wooden Stake.

 

Not allowed, and will get archived if the reviewer is notified.

no it doesn't. I know of some that are over 8 years old and also placed by Reviewers... try something else

 

I don't have a date for you on the guideline change, but they are no longer allowed. And of course someone who didn't know could have placed one last week, and "got away" with it. The reviewers don't know, or ask, what the container is.

show me where The RULE was changed then

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wow How do you get rules changed? what is so hard for you to understand that. You think if no one talks about it the rules will just be Magically changed? Really I was putting feelers out to see what the community thought. Maybe I need to go to other Caching forums also and test the waters there. I had to change the stakes by putting dna tubes in them because of closed mindedness. But funny thing is everyone that does the run gets it after they see it they say hey we get it. So maybe if you all actually did it you might just get it. BTW this came up as People are signing stakes instead of opening the DNA tube. Now reviewer wants them changed again. They are signing the Stake I say it is good.

Nobody said you could ask for the guidelines to be changed. They just said don't break the guidelines. Wait until the change.

 

Why is that so hard for you to understand.

Totem what is it you don't understand that rules never change unless someone brings it up or does something to get them changed

I hear you saying that things don't change unless you talk about it, and I understand that. I even agree with you on that. I have been in agreement with you on that the whole time. You don't seem to be able to comprehend what I'm saying.

 

Yes, it is good to talk about things like this. If the guidelines change I might hide one even. Who knows.

 

What I'm trying to say, and you keep ignoring or avoiding it, is that UNTIL the guidelines change stakes are not proper caches. It's that simple.

 

Please don't tell that I'm not willing to talk about this change or that I don't understand about rules changes. When you do you it just prove that you are not listening and that this is not a disscusion, but rather one person holding their breath and throwing a fit because they don't like the way things are now.

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wow How do you get rules changed? what is so hard for you to understand that. You think if no one talks about it the rules will just be Magically changed? Really I was putting feelers out to see what the community thought. Maybe I need to go to other Caching forums also and test the waters there. I had to change the stakes by putting dna tubes in them because of closed mindedness. But funny thing is everyone that does the run gets it after they see it they say hey we get it. So maybe if you all actually did it you might just get it. BTW this came up as People are signing stakes instead of opening the DNA tube. Now reviewer wants them changed again. They are signing the Stake I say it is good.

Nobody said you could ask for the guidelines to be changed. They just said don't break the guidelines. Wait until the change.

 

Why is that so hard for you to understand.

Totem what is it you don't understand that rules never change unless someone brings it up or does something to get them changed

I hear you saying that things don't change unless you talk about it, and I understand that. I even agree with you on that. I have been in agreement with you on that the whole time. You don't seem to be able to comprehend what I'm saying.

 

Yes, it is good to talk about things like this. If the guidelines change I might hide one even. Who knows.

 

What I'm trying to say, and you keep ignoring or avoiding it, is that UNTIL the guidelines change stakes are not proper caches. It's that simple.

 

Please don't tell that I'm not willing to talk about this change or that I don't understand about rules changes. When you do you it just prove that you are not listening and that this is not a disscusion, but rather one person holding their breath and throwing a fit because they don't like the way things are now.

I am avoiding it because it is a mote question and answer. How do we get the Guidelines changed? we talk about it? we discuss the merits of it. We get noticed by the rule Changers. We all know what you are saying that YES They are illegal now but it does not mean we have to keep mum until someone magically out of the blue, changes the rules. Changing rules is usually an uphill battle and we have to start somewhere and what better place to start then on Groundspeaks Forums.

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so utility plates have now been changed to? I doubt it

 

Utility plates usually have the log in a baggie, which seems to count as a container. Not a good one, but a container.

yes some have baggies some do not seen them 4 different ways, but if I put a baggie stapled on a stake then it would become a legit stake container

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wow How do you get rules changed? what is so hard for you to understand that. You think if no one talks about it the rules will just be Magically changed? Really I was putting feelers out to see what the community thought. Maybe I need to go to other Caching forums also and test the waters there. I had to change the stakes by putting dna tubes in them because of closed mindedness. But funny thing is everyone that does the run gets it after they see it they say hey we get it. So maybe if you all actually did it you might just get it. BTW this came up as People are signing stakes instead of opening the DNA tube. Now reviewer wants them changed again. They are signing the Stake I say it is good.

Nobody said you could ask for the guidelines to be changed. They just said don't break the guidelines. Wait until the change.

 

Why is that so hard for you to understand.

Totem what is it you don't understand that rules never change unless someone brings it up or does something to get them changed

I hear you saying that things don't change unless you talk about it, and I understand that. I even agree with you on that. I have been in agreement with you on that the whole time. You don't seem to be able to comprehend what I'm saying.

 

Yes, it is good to talk about things like this. If the guidelines change I might hide one even. Who knows.

 

What I'm trying to say, and you keep ignoring or avoiding it, is that UNTIL the guidelines change stakes are not proper caches. It's that simple.

 

Please don't tell that I'm not willing to talk about this change or that I don't understand about rules changes. When you do you it just prove that you are not listening and that this is not a disscusion, but rather one person holding their breath and throwing a fit because they don't like the way things are now.

I am avoiding it because it is a mote question and answer. How do we get the Guidelines changed? we talk about it? we discuss the merits of it. We get noticed by the rule Changers. We all know what you are saying that YES They are illegal now but it does not mean we have to keep mum until someone magically out of the blue, changes the rules. Changing rules is usually an uphill battle and we have to start somewhere and what better place to start then on Groundspeaks Forums.

Thank you for finnaly listing to me and agreeing with my original point instead of stupidly wasting your time and mine.

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so utility plates have now been changed to? I doubt it

 

Utility plates usually have the log in a baggie, which seems to count as a container. Not a good one, but a container.

yes some have baggies some do not seen them 4 different ways, but if I put a baggie stapled on a stake then it would become a legit stake container

yes

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wow How do you get rules changed? what is so hard for you to understand that. You think if no one talks about it the rules will just be Magically changed? Really I was putting feelers out to see what the community thought. Maybe I need to go to other Caching forums also and test the waters there. I had to change the stakes by putting dna tubes in them because of closed mindedness. But funny thing is everyone that does the run gets it after they see it they say hey we get it. So maybe if you all actually did it you might just get it. BTW this came up as People are signing stakes instead of opening the DNA tube. Now reviewer wants them changed again. They are signing the Stake I say it is good.

Nobody said you could ask for the guidelines to be changed. They just said don't break the guidelines. Wait until the change.

 

Why is that so hard for you to understand.

Totem what is it you don't understand that rules never change unless someone brings it up or does something to get them changed

I hear you saying that things don't change unless you talk about it, and I understand that. I even agree with you on that. I have been in agreement with you on that the whole time. You don't seem to be able to comprehend what I'm saying.

 

Yes, it is good to talk about things like this. If the guidelines change I might hide one even. Who knows.

 

What I'm trying to say, and you keep ignoring or avoiding it, is that UNTIL the guidelines change stakes are not proper caches. It's that simple.

 

Please don't tell that I'm not willing to talk about this change or that I don't understand about rules changes. When you do you it just prove that you are not listening and that this is not a disscusion, but rather one person holding their breath and throwing a fit because they don't like the way things are now.

I am avoiding it because it is a mote question and answer. How do we get the Guidelines changed? we talk about it? we discuss the merits of it. We get noticed by the rule Changers. We all know what you are saying that YES They are illegal now but it does not mean we have to keep mum until someone magically out of the blue, changes the rules. Changing rules is usually an uphill battle and we have to start somewhere and what better place to start then on Groundspeaks Forums.

Thank you for finnaly listing to me and agreeing with my original point instead of stupidly wasting your time and mine.

I listened to you but I also ignored the obvious but to satisfy you I directly answered it.

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so utility plates have now been changed to? I doubt it

 

Utility plates usually have the log in a baggie, which seems to count as a container. Not a good one, but a container.

yes some have baggies some do not seen them 4 different ways, but if I put a baggie stapled on a stake then it would become a legit stake container

yes

And do you see that the Baggie actually changes nothing? A baggie on top of the stake changes nothing as 99% of cachers will still sign or stamp the stake, Power cachers will never take the time to open and sign the log inside. Therefore we are putting needless plastic baggies and littering the earth again with Plastic and chemicals. Do you see how stupid that is. Oh wait that reminds me of something. I will post it.

Edited by hans415
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I was in Bridgeport California on a Sunday drive, scouting new Cache locations and availability of hooking into our already laid out run. When I go into the Downtown area I figured I would stop and just look around a bit. Trouble with that idea was this. They had just painted angle parking lines. Nice and bright white strips for angle parking no problem right? Wait a min. the angles on our side are backwards and the ones across the street were also backwards. Now this is a wide downtown Highway 395 going through town. A well traveled highway. I stopped and looked around sorta confused on how we are suppose to park, I wondered if we needed to park across the street or what. But this did not make sense either. I finally pulled into a spot by pulling out then pointing my car into it. Then I knew I was parked wrong for backing back out into the proper lane. I went into the Tourist store and started asking the owner about the parking. This is what I was told, "Backing into Traffic from a Parking space is illegal in California". I said really 49 states have angle parking and everyone backs out into traffic from it and California that is broke is spending their much needed money on stupid laws. He says you have to back into the parking space. I said Isnt that the same thing? you are backing up in Traffic to get parked. What Changes it, he brightly said Nothing. I said I have driven truck for 33 years and I know how to back, but does California realize that 95% of their Citizens cannot back properly in a space? He said he figures the law will be changed back and in 6 months the lines will be sandblasted back out and repainted the right way. This is what we are facing today also in Geocaching. Rules are made rules are changed rules are changed back. Sometimes the rules make prefect common sense and sometimes they make no sense at all. Yet someone gets what they think is a bright idea and changes rules and then realizes wait that idea was not as bright as I thought. Stakes make prefect sense and are environmentally friendly. No I am not a tree hugger at all. I am far from it and have abused it as much as everyone else. Mother earth will love stakes over Man Made Chemically induced Plastic containers and Steel ammo boxes etc. Stakes can be signed, stamped and self maintained as when it rains Walla you have clean Log. Stakes will last as long as the Grounspeak rules say they have to.

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so utility plates have now been changed to? I doubt it

 

Utility plates usually have the log in a baggie, which seems to count as a container. Not a good one, but a container.

yes some have baggies some do not seen them 4 different ways, but if I put a baggie stapled on a stake then it would become a legit stake container

yes

And do you see that the Baggie actually changes nothing? A baggie on top of the stake changes nothing as 99% of cachers will still sign or stamp the stake, Power cachers will never take the time to open and sign the log inside. Therefore we are putting needless plastic baggies and littering the earth again with Plastic and chemicals. Do you see how stupid that is. Oh wait that reminds me of something. I will post it.

I'm not saying the baggie makes it better. You ask a question about the guidelines and I answered it.

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so utility plates have now been changed to? I doubt it

 

Utility plates usually have the log in a baggie, which seems to count as a container. Not a good one, but a container.

yes some have baggies some do not seen them 4 different ways, but if I put a baggie stapled on a stake then it would become a legit stake container

yes

And do you see that the Baggie actually changes nothing? A baggie on top of the stake changes nothing as 99% of cachers will still sign or stamp the stake, Power cachers will never take the time to open and sign the log inside. Therefore we are putting needless plastic baggies and littering the earth again with Plastic and chemicals. Do you see how stupid that is. Oh wait that reminds me of something. I will post it.

I'm not saying the baggie makes it better. You ask a question about the guidelines and I answered it.

I understand. I was not badgering you I was simply stating the facts for anyone and everyone that will read this

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The only thing I see wrong with signing the steak or for that matter the outside of any cache, is that many cacher would start signing anything they think is the cache. This would lead to many areas banning caching due to vandelism. If the signatures are hidden inside an 'box' and not out for everyone to see, caching will be precieved in better light.

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The only thing I see wrong with signing the steak or for that matter the outside of any cache, is that many cacher would start signing anything they think is the cache. This would lead to many areas banning caching due to vandelism. If the signatures are hidden inside an 'box' and not out for everyone to see, caching will be precieved in better light.

In the Desert a stake is the only thing out there or maybe a rusted can I am pretty sure no one will mind if a can or stake is signed.

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The only thing I see wrong with signing the steak or for that matter the outside of any cache, is that many cacher would start signing anything they think is the cache. This would lead to many areas banning caching due to vandelism. If the signatures are hidden inside an 'box' and not out for everyone to see, caching will be precieved in better light.

In the Desert a stake is the only thing out there or maybe a rusted can I am pretty sure no one will mind if a can or stake is signed.

Agreed. But if you allowed it there, you know some fool would put up a 1x12 in some city park and have cachers sign that. Then some cacher would come sign it with spray paint. Then after the city maintenance crew removes the offending board, some other cacher would sigh the bench nearby just to get the smiley, and more than likely with spray paint as well.

 

(Pesonally I see nothing wrong with it out in the desert where only cachers or few hikers may ever see it, but you know it wouldn't stay there.)

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The only thing I see wrong with signing the steak or for that matter the outside of any cache, is that many cacher would start signing anything they think is the cache. This would lead to many areas banning caching due to vandelism. If the signatures are hidden inside an 'box' and not out for everyone to see, caching will be precieved in better light.

In the Desert a stake is the only thing out there or maybe a rusted can I am pretty sure no one will mind if a can or stake is signed.

Agreed. But if you allowed it there, you know some fool would put up a 1x12 in some city park and have cachers sign that. Then some cacher would come sign it with spray paint. Then after the city maintenance crew removes the offending board, some other cacher would sigh the bench nearby just to get the smiley, and more than likely with spray paint as well.

 

(Pesonally I see nothing wrong with it out in the desert where only cachers or few hikers may ever see it, but you know it wouldn't stay there.)

Yes if stakes are allowed then they would crop up anywhere, But that is the nature of the beast. I have seen signatures on just about anything when people cannot find the cache itself. It happens already everday without stakes. You cannot change people and what they do. they will do it anyway no matter what. You are always gonna have that odd cacher that will try and ruin it all anyway

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The only thing I see wrong with signing the steak or for that matter the outside of any cache, is that many cacher would start signing anything they think is the cache. This would lead to many areas banning caching due to vandelism. If the signatures are hidden inside an 'box' and not out for everyone to see, caching will be precieved in better light.

In the Desert a stake is the only thing out there or maybe a rusted can I am pretty sure no one will mind if a can or stake is signed.

Agreed. But if you allowed it there, you know some fool would put up a 1x12 in some city park and have cachers sign that. Then some cacher would come sign it with spray paint. Then after the city maintenance crew removes the offending board, some other cacher would sigh the bench nearby just to get the smiley, and more than likely with spray paint as well.

 

(Pesonally I see nothing wrong with it out in the desert where only cachers or few hikers may ever see it, but you know it wouldn't stay there.)

Yes if stakes are allowed then they would crop up anywhere, But that is the nature of the beast. I have seen signatures on just about anything when people cannot find the cache itself. It happens already everday without stakes. You cannot change people and what they do. they will do it anyway no matter what. You are always gonna have that odd cacher that will try and ruin it all anyway

And if it were allowed it would be even worse because there would be no way to stop it. Instead of Micro Spew you would have Stake Spew, followed by graffiti spew.

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The only thing I see wrong with signing the steak or for that matter the outside of any cache, is that many cacher would start signing anything they think is the cache. This would lead to many areas banning caching due to vandelism. If the signatures are hidden inside an 'box' and not out for everyone to see, caching will be precieved in better light.

In the Desert a stake is the only thing out there or maybe a rusted can I am pretty sure no one will mind if a can or stake is signed.

Agreed. But if you allowed it there, you know some fool would put up a 1x12 in some city park and have cachers sign that. Then some cacher would come sign it with spray paint. Then after the city maintenance crew removes the offending board, some other cacher would sigh the bench nearby just to get the smiley, and more than likely with spray paint as well.

 

(Pesonally I see nothing wrong with it out in the desert where only cachers or few hikers may ever see it, but you know it wouldn't stay there.)

Yes if stakes are allowed then they would crop up anywhere, But that is the nature of the beast. I have seen signatures on just about anything when people cannot find the cache itself. It happens already everday without stakes. You cannot change people and what they do. they will do it anyway no matter what. You are always gonna have that odd cacher that will try and ruin it all anyway

And if it were allowed it would be even worse because there would be no way to stop it. Instead of Micro Spew you would have Stake Spew, followed by graffiti spew.

I don't believe it would get any worse they you may believe it would be.

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Geocache Listing Requirements / Guidelines

Last Updated: September 18, 2012

 

2. Geocache Maintenance

  • Owner is responsible for geocache listing maintenance.
  • Owner is responsible for visits to the physical location. You are responsible for occasional visits to your cache to ensure it is in proper working order, especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.), or posts a Needs Maintenance log. Temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to search for it until you have addressed the problem. You are permitted a reasonable amount of time – generally up to 4 weeks – in which to check on your cache. If a cache is not being maintained, or has been temporarily disabled for an unreasonable length of time, we may archive the listing.

The GCRM statement "Replace the log as needed or container if the cache container is broken or missing" suggests that you expect the community to maintain this series for you. Also, were your DIP caches approved with the GCRM statement in place when you submitted the caches?

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Geocache Listing Requirements / Guidelines

Last Updated: September 18, 2012

 

2. Geocache Maintenance

  • Owner is responsible for geocache listing maintenance.
  • Owner is responsible for visits to the physical location. You are responsible for occasional visits to your cache to ensure it is in proper working order, especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.), or posts a Needs Maintenance log. Temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to search for it until you have addressed the problem. You are permitted a reasonable amount of time – generally up to 4 weeks – in which to check on your cache. If a cache is not being maintained, or has been temporarily disabled for an unreasonable length of time, we may archive the listing.

The GCRM statement "Replace the log as needed or container if the cache container is broken or missing" suggests that you expect the community to maintain this series for you. Also, were your DIP caches approved with the GCRM statement in place when you submitted the caches?

Huh? what did this have to do with anything?

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Geocache Listing Requirements / Guidelines

Last Updated: September 18, 2012

 

2. Geocache Maintenance

  • Owner is responsible for geocache listing maintenance.
  • Owner is responsible for visits to the physical location. You are responsible for occasional visits to your cache to ensure it is in proper working order, especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.), or posts a Needs Maintenance log. Temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to search for it until you have addressed the problem. You are permitted a reasonable amount of time – generally up to 4 weeks – in which to check on your cache. If a cache is not being maintained, or has been temporarily disabled for an unreasonable length of time, we may archive the listing.

The GCRM statement "Replace the log as needed or container if the cache container is broken or missing" suggests that you expect the community to maintain this series for you. Also, were your DIP caches approved with the GCRM statement in place when you submitted the caches?

Huh? what did this have to do with anything?

I think it had to do with what this thread was originally talking about, until you turned it into a discussion about your stake caches. LoneR may have thought you were the cache owner referenced in one of the first 63 posts, even though you are not.

 

You didn't start this thread, you replied to it -- it wasn't originally about you, and therefore not all the replies may be about you, either.

 

(This reply is about you, by the way, just to clear things up.)

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Geocache Listing Requirements / Guidelines

Last Updated: September 18, 2012

 

2. Geocache Maintenance

  • Owner is responsible for geocache listing maintenance.
  • Owner is responsible for visits to the physical location. You are responsible for occasional visits to your cache to ensure it is in proper working order, especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.), or posts a Needs Maintenance log. Temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to search for it until you have addressed the problem. You are permitted a reasonable amount of time – generally up to 4 weeks – in which to check on your cache. If a cache is not being maintained, or has been temporarily disabled for an unreasonable length of time, we may archive the listing.

The GCRM statement "Replace the log as needed or container if the cache container is broken or missing" suggests that you expect the community to maintain this series for you. Also, were your DIP caches approved with the GCRM statement in place when you submitted the caches?

Huh? what did this have to do with anything?

 

Maybe you should read the very first one then or here I will paste it on here. hmm stakes in the ground

Recently we have started seeing more caches that are simply a sandwich bad and a piece of paper or even more of a lack of container are the new concept of placing a wooden stake on the ground.

 

The stake IS the cache and the logbook.

 

Do cachers no longer require containers?

 

I understand the whole micro explosion and I am not trying to bring up size.. I am asking if :

1) plastic bag + paper = geocache

2) survey stake on the ground = geocache

 

Or are we simply too old school and expect to much?

I think it had to do with what this thread was originally talking about, until you turned it into a discussion about your stake caches. LoneR may have thought you were the cache owner referenced in one of the first 63 posts, even though you are not.

 

You didn't start this thread, you replied to it -- it wasn't originally about you, and therefore not all the replies may be about you, either.

 

(This reply is about you, by the way, just to clear things up.)

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Maybe you should read the very first one then

 

I did. I also read where the discussion started to talk about GCRM, and that post didn't talk about your caches. I'll past it in here:

 

I just looked at one of the stake caches and they also have the infamous GCRM logo....

 

"GCRM- Replace the log as needed or container if the cache container is broken or missing.

Before you replace a missing container, you must spend a reasonable amount of time searching - at least 5 minutes per difficulty rating. The cache owner accepts that there is a chance that multiple containers could be at the site. Please remove duplicate containers if you find multiple caches at the site. Broken containers and full logs may be disposed of at will."

 

Would this pass a review? Was the GCRM added after the publication?

 

If you notice, that ain't your cache that's linked. So apparently you're not the only one who has stake caches out there.

 

That's all I had for you. So, feel free to resume hijacking the thread into a personal conversation between you and anyone else who types here.

 

edit: sp

Edited by hzoi
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Maybe you should read the very first one then

 

I did. I also read where the discussion started to talk about GCRM, and that post didn't talk about your caches. I'll past it in here:

 

I just looked at one of the stake caches and they also have the infamous GCRM logo....

 

"GCRM- Replace the log as needed or container if the cache container is broken or missing.

Before you replace a missing container, you must spend a reasonable amount of time searching - at least 5 minutes per difficulty rating. The cache owner accepts that there is a chance that multiple containers could be at the site. Please remove duplicate containers if you find multiple caches at the site. Broken containers and full logs may be disposed of at will."

 

Would this pass a review? Was the GCRM added after the publication?

 

Geesh really now I am being confused as a hijacker. It is about Stakes in the ground and yes I started them on a 1800+ power run and was made to change them. Yes it is Talking about Yerington Nevada and so on and so forth. No matter how you want to look at it they were and was talking about our power run. You are just proving my earlier point on Common sense.

 

If you notice, that ain't your cache that's linkedink. So apparently you're not the only one who has stake caches out there.

 

That's all I had for you. So, feel free to resume hijacking the thread into a personal conversation between you and anyone else who types here.

Edited by hans415
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Maybe you should read the very first one then

 

I did. I also read where the discussion started to talk about GCRM, and that post didn't talk about your caches. I'll past it in here:

 

I just looked at one of the stake caches and they also have the infamous GCRM logo....

 

"GCRM- Replace the log as needed or container if the cache container is broken or missing.

Before you replace a missing container, you must spend a reasonable amount of time searching - at least 5 minutes per difficulty rating. The cache owner accepts that there is a chance that multiple containers could be at the site. Please remove duplicate containers if you find multiple caches at the site. Broken containers and full logs may be disposed of at will."

 

Would this pass a review? Was the GCRM added after the publication?

 

If you notice, that ain't your cache that's linked. So apparently you're not the only one who has stake caches out there.

 

That's all I had for you. So, feel free to resume hijacking the thread into a personal conversation between you and anyone else who types here.

 

edit: sp

 

Interesting. Thanks for clearing that up hzoi. Yes, I did think the Hans' stakes were the DIP power trail stakes.

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Here Hzoi Shadow ace was the first one to start this thread. There is no link to anything on his post. He/she was asking about Survey Stakes on the ground in the original post. I started survey Stakes in May of this year. He started the Post in October this year as our power run was gaining popularity. We now have had people from all corners of the world come and do the power run. So maybe just Maybe it was about our power run.

Posted 29 October 2012 - 09:32 AM

Recently we have started seeing more caches that are simply a sandwich bad and a piece of paper or even more of a lack of container are the new concept of placing a wooden stake on the ground.

 

The stake IS the cache and the logbook.

 

Do cachers no longer require containers?

 

I understand the whole micro explosion and I am not trying to bring up size.. I am asking if :

1) plastic bag + paper = geocache

2) survey stake on the ground = geocache

 

Or are we simply too old school and expect to much?

-=Tucson, Arizona

"Nil Sine Numine", "Nothing without the Diety"

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Maybe you should read the very first one then

 

I did. I also read where the discussion started to talk about GCRM, and that post didn't talk about your caches. I'll past it in here:

 

I just looked at one of the stake caches and they also have the infamous GCRM logo....

 

"GCRM- Replace the log as needed or container if the cache container is broken or missing.

Before you replace a missing container, you must spend a reasonable amount of time searching - at least 5 minutes per difficulty rating. The cache owner accepts that there is a chance that multiple containers could be at the site. Please remove duplicate containers if you find multiple caches at the site. Broken containers and full logs may be disposed of at will."

 

Would this pass a review? Was the GCRM added after the publication?

 

If you notice, that ain't your cache that's linked. So apparently you're not the only one who has stake caches out there.

 

That's all I had for you. So, feel free to resume hijacking the thread into a personal conversation between you and anyone else who types here.

 

edit: sp

 

Interesting. Thanks for clearing that up hzoi. Yes, I did think the Hans' stakes were the DIP power trail stakes.

thing is hzoi the original was about Stakes so when they started off on GCRM's they then Hijacked the thread

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so utility plates have now been changed to? I doubt it

 

Utility plates usually have the log in a baggie, which seems to count as a container. Not a good one, but a container.

yes some have baggies some do not seen them 4 different ways, but if I put a baggie stapled on a stake then it would become a legit stake container

yes

And do you see that the Baggie actually changes nothing? A baggie on top of the stake changes nothing as 99% of cachers will still sign or stamp the stake, Power cachers will never take the time to open and sign the log inside. Therefore we are putting needless plastic baggies and littering the earth again with Plastic and chemicals. Do you see how stupid that is. Oh wait that reminds me of something. I will post it.

 

Then don't hide power trails!

 

The ET highway is film cannisters, and people are opening and closing them.

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Ok all I have been waiting for someone to think of this, but looks as if no one will so I will approach it. Magnetic Strips Placed on Poles or Boxes we have all found them they have the log either Pasted on Back or I have see them manufactured with a wipe off log. Some say Warning High Voltage, some say something else. These are not "Containers" yet they are accepted as a nice evil Cache and no one complains. There is no difference in Magnetic non-containers and a wooden Stake.

 

Staple a baggie with a log in to the back of your stake and you're good. It would be lamest cache of all time, but you would be technically meeting the guidelines. No one is asking you to not be creative and no one is asking you not to try to get the guidelines changed, they are just asking you follow the current guidelines. If I want to get the speed limit raised I go through the proper process. I don't simply drive fast until someone notices and then hope they'll raise the limit instead of giving me a ticket.

 

As far as 100s of stakes in the desert. If I drove out there and found that the CO couldn't even bother to give me a carpy filmcan with something in it that I could sign, I'd be pissed. I'm a geocacher. I find and log geocaches. A wooden stake stuck in a bush is not a geocache. It's something that you can attach a geocache to, but it is not a geocache.

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Maybe you should read the very first one then

 

I did. I also read where the discussion started to talk about GCRM, and that post didn't talk about your caches. I'll past it in here:

 

I just looked at one of the stake caches and they also have the infamous GCRM logo....

 

"GCRM- Replace the log as needed or container if the cache container is broken or missing.

Before you replace a missing container, you must spend a reasonable amount of time searching - at least 5 minutes per difficulty rating. The cache owner accepts that there is a chance that multiple containers could be at the site. Please remove duplicate containers if you find multiple caches at the site. Broken containers and full logs may be disposed of at will."

 

Would this pass a review? Was the GCRM added after the publication?

 

If you notice, that ain't your cache that's linked. So apparently you're not the only one who has stake caches out there.

 

That's all I had for you. So, feel free to resume hijacking the thread into a personal conversation between you and anyone else who types here.

 

edit: sp

 

Interesting. Thanks for clearing that up hzoi. Yes, I did think the Hans' stakes were the DIP power trail stakes.

thing is hzoi the original was about Stakes so when they started off on GCRM's they then Hijacked the thread

 

Hans...Booby...I'm your white knight. Name that film. :ph34r:

 

Yes, I see now Hans is not the CO whose caches the thread was started about. Hans hails from Nevada. So apparently, there's a copycat wooden stake PT owner in Arizona. The Arizona CO has the GCRM language on his cache page.

 

That is all, except I will defer to someone else, preferably a reviewer, to enlighten us as to when it became against the guidelines to use a magnetic sheet without a container as a cache.

Edited by Mr.Yuck
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Here Hzoi Shadow ace was the first one to start this thread. There is no link to anything on his post.

 

You're absolutely right. There was no link; he just talked about caches in his area. If only there was some way to determine what area that was, like by reading his signature line, or visiting his profile, or seeing what caches he's found recently, or...

 

Hans...Booby...I'm your white knight. Name that film. :ph34r:

 

Yippee ki yay, Mr. Yuck[er]. :grin:

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Ok all I have been waiting for someone to think of this, but looks as if no one will so I will approach it. Magnetic Strips Placed on Poles or Boxes we have all found them they have the log either Pasted on Back or I have see them manufactured with a wipe off log. Some say Warning High Voltage, some say something else. These are not "Containers" yet they are accepted as a nice evil Cache and no one complains. There is no difference in Magnetic non-containers and a wooden Stake.

 

Staple a baggie with a log in to the back of your stake and you're good. It would be lamest cache of all time, but you would be technically meeting the guidelines. No one is asking you to not be creative and no one is asking you not to try to get the guidelines changed, they are just asking you follow the current guidelines. If I want to get the speed limit raised I go through the proper process. I don't simply drive fast until someone notices and then hope they'll raise the limit instead of giving me a ticket.

 

As far as 100s of stakes in the desert. If I drove out there and found that the CO couldn't even bother to give me a carpy filmcan with something in it that I could sign, I'd be pissed. I'm a geocacher. I find and log geocaches. A wooden stake stuck in a bush is not a geocache. It's something that you can attach a geocache to, but it is not a geocache.

Only thing I have to add so a 35 mm is better then just a stake? does that not actually and technically become the same thing? you are logging a piece of paper versus wood but that is all you can do. I have more then just stakes. Mentioned earlier what types we have out here from ammo cans to Telephones to bubble gum machines to extra extra Large Missile cans, to other things it isnt just a wooden stake with a dna tube run.

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wow How do you get rules changed? what is so hard for you to understand that. You think if no one talks about it the rules will just be Magically changed? Really I was putting feelers out to see what the community thought. Maybe I need to go to other Caching forums also and test the waters there. I had to change the stakes by putting dna tubes in them because of closed mindedness. But funny thing is everyone that does the run gets it after they see it they say hey we get it. So maybe if you all actually did it you might just get it. BTW this came up as People are signing stakes instead of opening the DNA tube. Now reviewer wants them changed again. They are signing the Stake I say it is good.

Nobody said you could ask for the guidelines to be changed. They just said don't break the guidelines. Wait until the change.

 

Why is that so hard for you to understand.

Totem what is it you don't understand that rules never change unless someone brings it up or does something to get them changed

I hear you saying that things don't change unless you talk about it, and I understand that. I even agree with you on that. I have been in agreement with you on that the whole time. You don't seem to be able to comprehend what I'm saying.

 

Yes, it is good to talk about things like this. If the guidelines change I might hide one even. Who knows.

 

What I'm trying to say, and you keep ignoring or avoiding it, is that UNTIL the guidelines change stakes are not proper caches. It's that simple.

 

Please don't tell that I'm not willing to talk about this change or that I don't understand about rules changes. When you do you it just prove that you are not listening and that this is not a disscusion, but rather one person holding their breath and throwing a fit because they don't like the way things are now.

I am avoiding it because it is a mote question and answer. How do we get the Guidelines changed? we talk about it? we discuss the merits of it. We get noticed by the rule Changers. We all know what you are saying that YES They are illegal now but it does not mean we have to keep mum until someone magically out of the blue, changes the rules. Changing rules is usually an uphill battle and we have to start somewhere and what better place to start then on Groundspeaks Forums.

 

Best of luck, but please understand that you are never going to see this happen. Your efforts might be better utilized creating actual geocache containers. Groundspeak has spent the last six years getting out of the "container-less" cache business. With the exception of Events and Earthcaches, a cache has to have a container and the container has to contain a log. The Chances of Groundspeak doing a complete turn around because someone wants to leave random objects across the landscape and call them caches, and others want to drive around finding them and pretending that they are finding caches, is slim to none.

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so utility plates have now been changed to? I doubt it

 

Utility plates usually have the log in a baggie, which seems to count as a container. Not a good one, but a container.

yes some have baggies some do not seen them 4 different ways, but if I put a baggie stapled on a stake then it would become a legit stake container

 

Unfortunately, yes.

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wow How do you get rules changed? what is so hard for you to understand that. You think if no one talks about it the rules will just be Magically changed? Really I was putting feelers out to see what the community thought. Maybe I need to go to other Caching forums also and test the waters there. I had to change the stakes by putting dna tubes in them because of closed mindedness. But funny thing is everyone that does the run gets it after they see it they say hey we get it. So maybe if you all actually did it you might just get it. BTW this came up as People are signing stakes instead of opening the DNA tube. Now reviewer wants them changed again. They are signing the Stake I say it is good.

Nobody said you could ask for the guidelines to be changed. They just said don't break the guidelines. Wait until the change.

 

Why is that so hard for you to understand.

Totem what is it you don't understand that rules never change unless someone brings it up or does something to get them changed

I hear you saying that things don't change unless you talk about it, and I understand that. I even agree with you on that. I have been in agreement with you on that the whole time. You don't seem to be able to comprehend what I'm saying.

 

Yes, it is good to talk about things like this. If the guidelines change I might hide one even. Who knows.

 

What I'm trying to say, and you keep ignoring or avoiding it, is that UNTIL the guidelines change stakes are not proper caches. It's that simple.

 

Please don't tell that I'm not willing to talk about this change or that I don't understand about rules changes. When you do you it just prove that you are not listening and that this is not a disscusion, but rather one person holding their breath and throwing a fit because they don't like the way things are now.

I am avoiding it because it is a mote question and answer. How do we get the Guidelines changed? we talk about it? we discuss the merits of it. We get noticed by the rule Changers. We all know what you are saying that YES They are illegal now but it does not mean we have to keep mum until someone magically out of the blue, changes the rules. Changing rules is usually an uphill battle and we have to start somewhere and what better place to start then on Groundspeaks Forums.

 

Best of luck, but please understand that you are never going to see this happen. Your efforts might be better utilized creating actual geocache containers. Groundspeak has spent the last six years getting out of the "container-less" cache business. With the exception of Events and Earthcaches, a cache has to have a container and the container has to contain a log. The Chances of Groundspeak doing a complete turn around because someone wants to leave random objects across the landscape and call them caches, and others want to drive around finding them and pretending that they are finding caches, is slim to none.

 

I will take the slim chance as all rules have been known to change

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so utility plates have now been changed to? I doubt it

 

Utility plates usually have the log in a baggie, which seems to count as a container. Not a good one, but a container.

yes some have baggies some do not seen them 4 different ways, but if I put a baggie stapled on a stake then it would become a legit stake container

yes

And do you see that the Baggie actually changes nothing? A baggie on top of the stake changes nothing as 99% of cachers will still sign or stamp the stake, Power cachers will never take the time to open and sign the log inside. Therefore we are putting needless plastic baggies and littering the earth again with Plastic and chemicals. Do you see how stupid that is. Oh wait that reminds me of something. I will post it.

 

If you are truly this concerned about the environment, you should not be leaving anything in it. Especially anything that entices people to drive gas/diesel powered vehicles through the area. This has nothing to do with the environment and you know it. Why not tell us the real reason that you don't want to use proper containers.

Edited by Don_J
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Mother earth will love stakes over Man Made Chemically induced Plastic containers and Steel ammo boxes etc. Stakes can be signed, stamped and self maintained as when it rains Walla you have clean Log. Stakes will last as long as the Grounspeak rules say they have to.

\

You seem to be unaware of one very important aspect of cache ownership. YOU as the cache owner are responsible for removing the cache or it's remains when it is no longer viable. Nothing should be deteriorating out there because you are a responsible cache owner, correct?

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Parking in Bridgeport, CA has nothing to do with placing wooden stakes in Central Nevada and calling them geocaches.

 

BTW, if you truly took a moment to think about it, that parking plan is much safer. When I stop to back in, the car behind me has to stop and wait. Now, when I leave, I am looking directly into traffic and can drive straight into a gap. The old, way, I am trying to back up, but can't see the traffic coming because of the angle and having to look through my entire vehicle. As you have driven a truck, you know that you can't look through it so you are solely dependent on your mirrors, which are not at the proper angle to see the oncoming traffic that you must back into.

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so utility plates have now been changed to? I doubt it

 

Utility plates usually have the log in a baggie, which seems to count as a container. Not a good one, but a container.

yes some have baggies some do not seen them 4 different ways, but if I put a baggie stapled on a stake then it would become a legit stake container

yes

And do you see that the Baggie actually changes nothing? A baggie on top of the stake changes nothing as 99% of cachers will still sign or stamp the stake, Power cachers will never take the time to open and sign the log inside. Therefore we are putting needless plastic baggies and littering the earth again with Plastic and chemicals. Do you see how stupid that is. Oh wait that reminds me of something. I will post it.

 

If you are truly this concerned about the environment, you should be leaving anything in it. Especially anything that entices people to drive gas/diesel powered vehicles through the area. This has nothing to do with the environment and you know it. Why not tell us the real reason that you don't want to use proper containers.

If you read above you will see that I am not concerned about the enviorment until someone calls it Geolittering with stakes and then I am qui8ck to point out that Stakes are better then plastic containers

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The only thing I see wrong with signing the steak or for that matter the outside of any cache, is that many cacher would start signing anything they think is the cache. This would lead to many areas banning caching due to vandelism. If the signatures are hidden inside an 'box' and not out for everyone to see, caching will be precieved in better light.

In the Desert a stake is the only thing out there or maybe a rusted can I am pretty sure no one will mind if a can or stake is signed.

Agreed. But if you allowed it there, you know some fool would put up a 1x12 in some city park and have cachers sign that. Then some cacher would come sign it with spray paint. Then after the city maintenance crew removes the offending board, some other cacher would sigh the bench nearby just to get the smiley, and more than likely with spray paint as well.

 

(Pesonally I see nothing wrong with it out in the desert where only cachers or few hikers may ever see it, but you know it wouldn't stay there.)

Yes if stakes are allowed then they would crop up anywhere, But that is the nature of the beast. I have seen signatures on just about anything when people cannot find the cache itself. It happens already everday without stakes. You cannot change people and what they do. they will do it anyway no matter what. You are always gonna have that odd cacher that will try and ruin it all anyway

 

Over 6000 logs on my caches and in all this time I have had to delete a total of 1. Sign the rock that I put in front of my cache instead of the cache, or posting a DNF to tell me that there is no cache, I'll delete your log in a heartbeat, and, I will call you out in every public forum I can find. We're geocachers, not vandals. If you find someone that is confused about that, you need to set them straight, any way that you can. Our game depends on it.

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Geocache Listing Requirements / Guidelines

Last Updated: September 18, 2012

 

2. Geocache Maintenance

  • Owner is responsible for geocache listing maintenance.
  • Owner is responsible for visits to the physical location. You are responsible for occasional visits to your cache to ensure it is in proper working order, especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.), or posts a Needs Maintenance log. Temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to search for it until you have addressed the problem. You are permitted a reasonable amount of time – generally up to 4 weeks – in which to check on your cache. If a cache is not being maintained, or has been temporarily disabled for an unreasonable length of time, we may archive the listing.

The GCRM statement "Replace the log as needed or container if the cache container is broken or missing" suggests that you expect the community to maintain this series for you. Also, were your DIP caches approved with the GCRM statement in place when you submitted the caches?

Huh? what did this have to do with anything?

I think it had to do with what this thread was originally talking about, until you turned it into a discussion about your stake caches. LoneR may have thought you were the cache owner referenced in one of the first 63 posts, even though you are not.

 

You didn't start this thread, you replied to it -- it wasn't originally about you, and therefore not all the replies may be about you, either.

 

(This reply is about you, by the way, just to clear things up.)

 

Actually, that was where the thread had drifted to. The OP was about stakes that you sign in reference to a series in Arizona that copied Hans' series in Nevada.

 

It's actually quite comical watching Hans try to defend his series. It reminds me of a lot of TV and radio ads that will hopefully end at 8PM tonight. :ph34r:

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Geocache Listing Requirements / Guidelines

Last Updated: September 18, 2012

 

2. Geocache Maintenance

  • Owner is responsible for geocache listing maintenance.
  • Owner is responsible for visits to the physical location. You are responsible for occasional visits to your cache to ensure it is in proper working order, especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.), or posts a Needs Maintenance log. Temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to search for it until you have addressed the problem. You are permitted a reasonable amount of time – generally up to 4 weeks – in which to check on your cache. If a cache is not being maintained, or has been temporarily disabled for an unreasonable length of time, we may archive the listing.

The GCRM statement "Replace the log as needed or container if the cache container is broken or missing" suggests that you expect the community to maintain this series for you. Also, were your DIP caches approved with the GCRM statement in place when you submitted the caches?

Huh? what did this have to do with anything?

I think it had to do with what this thread was originally talking about, until you turned it into a discussion about your stake caches. LoneR may have thought you were the cache owner referenced in one of the first 63 posts, even though you are not.

 

You didn't start this thread, you replied to it -- it wasn't originally about you, and therefore not all the replies may be about you, either.

 

(This reply is about you, by the way, just to clear things up.)

 

Actually, that was where the thread had drifted to. The OP was about stakes that you sign in reference to a series in Arizona that copied Hans' series in Nevada.

 

It's actually quite comical watching Hans try to defend his series. It reminds me of a lot of TV and radio ads that will hopefully end at 8PM tonight. :ph34r:

I am guessing that you would not defend something or someone you believe in?

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