Cache container

[+NeverSummer]

No worries I have emails from the owner explaining that what we did was what they wanted. However they say that After this, they have made changes and as such I am now required to go change all my logs:

 

Based on you email stating that the cache site contains a picture of a wooden stake that is referenced as the indicator and writing in your cache log that you signed a stick wouldn't be anything new or revealing. I have removed the picture of the 'indicator' and have changed the wording on the cache page that the indicator will be a 'surprise indicator'. So as of tonight, logging anything about a stake, stick, or wood will be considered very revealing. I don't want to ruin the experiences of the cachers behind you.

 

This will will be my third request to have you update your logs on my D.I.P. series where you are referencing Geocaching guidelines since they are blogging and forum-like. The issue you are referring to can be addressed using those avenues and not my cache pages. The part of your logs quoting Geocaching guidelines do not have anything to do with the experience at the cache site. Like I said before, I don't remember posting Geocaching guidelines at each cache site for people to comment about. If I did, then I wouldn't be asking you to make these changes.

 

When updating the logs, please do not use any references to a stake, stick or wood in any way. That would be too revealing and will give away the "surprise indicator" that might be at the site to help them find the cache container. There won't always be one and that's a surprise too!

 

Once again, please update your logs. I do consider the logs blogging and forum-like and it's my understanding that blogging and forum-like logs are against the Geocaching logging guidelines. I have given you two days and multiple ideas on what to update your logs to for making your changes. At this point, I am left with only one resolution: Please update them in the next 24 hours, or they will have to be deleted.

 

Feel free to report me to Geocaching, but I have multiple days of emails trying to work this out with you. As the CO, it is my responsibility that the cache page be blogging and form-like logging free.

 

To me, this sounds like the cache owner is trying to clean up the logs so that nobody mentions that something is amiss. (Read: against the guidelines) Apparently TPTB have ruled that a cache must have a container, and if you are just signing a stake, it isn't a proper geocache. So, any evidence on their cache page that this is the case would only strengthen the case for archival by a Reviewer. Just my theory, however...

[+L0ne.R]

 

To me, this sounds like the cache owner is trying to clean up the logs so that nobody mentions that something is amiss. (Read: against the guidelines) Apparently TPTB have ruled that a cache must have a container, and if you are just signing a stake, it isn't a proper geocache. So, any evidence on their cache page that this is the case would only strengthen the case for archival by a Reviewer. Just my theory, however...

 

Yep, that's how it looks to me too.

Edited November 3, 2012 by L0ne R

[4wheelin_fool]

It sounds like he has a lot at stake.

 

But hey, everyone makes mistakes.

[+ShadowAce]

It sounds like he has a lot at stake.

 

But hey, everyone makes mistakes.

 

That just takes the cake. Do you really think it would make one quake? I think you make the rake look fake. []

[4wheelin_fool]

You seem to be attempting to raise the stakes by conducting a stake out. Watch out for those stakes in the grass.

[AZcachemeister]

More caches in this series were published today, so everything must have been fixed-up.

[+scrapcat]

What's GcRM? Why is the logo infamous?

[AZcachemeister]

What's GcRM? Why is the logo infamous?

 

GCRM

 

Basically, it's the owner saying they don't want to maintain the caches by themselves, and EXPECT people to leave throw-down caches instead of posting a DNF or 'Needs Maintenance'.

[Clan Riffster]

The containers at the cache sites where you indicated that they are not within geocaching guidelines are all approved containers by GeoDesertTiger. If there is an issue with the container interpretation, please contact GeoDesertTiger.

I would take them up on their offer. Just because the reviewer published the cache doesn't mean they know what type of "container" was used. Until the CO or a finder tells the reviewer what type of hide it is, the reviewer has no idea.

I would likely take it one step further, and CC contact@Groundspeak.com into my email to the Reviewer.

[+L0ne.R]

What's GcRM? Why is the logo infamous?

 

GCRM

 

Basically, it's the owner saying they don't want to maintain the caches by themselves, and EXPECT people to leave throw-down caches instead of posting a DNF or 'Needs Maintenance'.

 

When a CO lists a cache they agree to the following:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

Geocache Listing Requirements / Guidelines

Last Updated: September 18, 2012

 

2. Geocache Maintenance

• Owner is responsible for geocache listing maintenance.
• Owner is responsible for visits to the physical location. You are responsible for occasional visits to your cache to ensure it is in proper working order, especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.), or posts a Needs Maintenance log. Temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to search for it until you have addressed the problem. You are permitted a reasonable amount of time – generally up to 4 weeks – in which to check on your cache. If a cache is not being maintained, or has been temporarily disabled for an unreasonable length of time, we may archive the listing.

[AZcachemeister]

 

I would likely take it one step further, and CC contact@Groundspeak.com into my email to the Reviewer.

 

Done.

No word from HQ.

[AZcachemeister]

What's GcRM? Why is the logo infamous?

 

GCRM

 

Basically, it's the owner saying they don't want to maintain the caches by themselves, and EXPECT people to leave throw-down caches instead of posting a DNF or 'Needs Maintenance'.

 

When a CO lists a cache they agree to the following:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

Geocache Listing Requirements / Guidelines

Last Updated: September 18, 2012

 

2. Geocache Maintenance

• Owner is responsible for geocache listing maintenance.
• Owner is responsible for visits to the physical location. You are responsible for occasional visits to your cache to ensure it is in proper working order, especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.), or posts a Needs Maintenance log. Temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to search for it until you have addressed the problem. You are permitted a reasonable amount of time – generally up to 4 weeks – in which to check on your cache. If a cache is not being maintained, or has been temporarily disabled for an unreasonable length of time, we may archive the listing.

 

Thus any cache sporting the GCRM logo should probably be denied publication from the get-go.

 

Unfortunately, threatening to not do maintenance is not the same as actually not doing it.

[+scrapcat]

What's GcRM? Why is the logo infamous?

 

GCRM

 

Basically, it's the owner saying they don't want to maintain the caches by themselves, and EXPECT people to leave throw-down caches instead of posting a DNF or 'Needs Maintenance'.

 

When a CO lists a cache they agree to the following:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

Geocache Listing Requirements / Guidelines

Last Updated: September 18, 2012

 

2. Geocache Maintenance

• Owner is responsible for geocache listing maintenance.
• Owner is responsible for visits to the physical location. You are responsible for occasional visits to your cache to ensure it is in proper working order, especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.), or posts a Needs Maintenance log. Temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to search for it until you have addressed the problem. You are permitted a reasonable amount of time – generally up to 4 weeks – in which to check on your cache. If a cache is not being maintained, or has been temporarily disabled for an unreasonable length of time, we may archive the listing.

 

Thus any cache sporting the GCRM logo should probably be denied publication from the get-go.

 

Unfortunately, threatening to not do maintenance is not the same as actually not doing it.

 

Can someone share a GC of a cache that has this logo? I'm curious now.

[+hans415]

Ok guys I was the Guilty party that started the Stake as a Geocache. Yes I am the Guy that started the Cas run and TS run in Nevada. Wile many people disagree that it is a legit container or not think about all you are saying. You call a wooden stake Geo-Litter or a Plastic bag taped or stapled to the Stake as Geo-Litter. Are we all not just literally Littering the ground with any kind of a cache be it Ammo Cans or any other container? Are we all not guilty of Littering? Plastic Containers will take decades and decades to disintegrate while wooden stakes will only take 8 to 10 years to give back to mother Nature. Stakes are all natural and therefore you would not be guilty of Littering. Also Stakes are wood untreated and so therefore Environmentally Friendly. Paper is made from wood with a lot of different chemicals so there fore is not environmentally Friendly. Untreated Stakes again are all Natural and so will only give back to the Earth instead of harming the environment as your Plastic containers are doing. Think about it. You all want to say that Stakes cannot be legal. Here is what Geocacheing.com says. Geocache Contents

 

Geocache containers include a logsheet or logbook.

 

For all physical caches, there must be a logbook, scroll or other type of log for geocachers to record their visit.

Well again where can they not sign? Other type is not specific, so I am using real wood and not Chemically Treated Paper. So in closing Who is the Litterbug?

[+hans415]

briansnat's interpretation seems to be the one that Groundspeak has given to the reviewers. However since there has been no indication from Groundspeak as to the rationale for requiring a container, it's hard to follow why a plastic bag with a slip of paper for a log is a cache while a stake that has the log inscribed on it is not.

 

Granted, I don't care much for the idea of using wooden stakes for a power trail. It sounds like someone couldn't find a supply of 35 mm film cans but could find a bunch of lumber scraps they could cut up with a miter saw. However I have found a few caches that were cleverly camouflage where you wrote on the back to log your find. There is a bit of what do you do when the "log" is full. But it isn't clear to me that the ability for finder to replace the log or add to it is really what the guideline is about.

 

Without a rationale, there are all sorts of ways around the guidelind. One could drill holes in the stakes and stuff paper logs in them. Or one could take a block of wood, drill a hole in it, then put a dowel in the hole and call it the log. I'm not convince were are better off by forbidding cachse that "contain" the log as an integral part of the cache (such as the front, the back, or the outside).

35 mm I have plenty but Wooden stakes are different and all natural and gives back to Earth instead of Littering with Plastic

Edited November 6, 2012 by hans415

[+hans415]

And as an added bonus, he can even make up his own guidelines, and allow himself to pound them into the ground.

 

Guidelines have changed:

 

3.Geocaches are never buried, neither partially nor completely.

If one has to dig or create a hole in the ground when placing or finding a geocache, it is not allowed.

 

Gone are the words about breaking ground, and using a point object. I suspect this allows some wiggle room for the reviewers.

The guideline has been made more broad, not more specific, so anything that would have failed the previous wording would still fail the new wording. A stake fails the current wording of the guideline not once, but twice:

1. The stake is partially buried

2. A hole is created in the ground

 

Unless it's a magical stake that can sit on top of the ground, a stake doesn't pass this guideline.

Stakes can be and are placed inside Sagebrush in the Nevada desert, therefore no one is digging or burying the stake. So think again stakes are all natural not littering as Plastic containers are Littering. Paper is made from Wood as Stakes are and can be signed by most anything. so there again Stakes should be allowed.

[+hans415]

 

Solid stakes. Even has a bunch at the beginning so you can take them and replace any missing.

 

Wouldn't stakes placed (driven/poked) into the ground be a violation of the GS guidelines------------No digging or using a pointed object to place a cache? Just saying..............

Stakes hidden in Sagebrush and not even touching the ground..that is what most of them are.

[+hans415]

A log in a bag is just litter. It likely does meet guidelines if it has the word geocache written on it. I would not disagree with Briansnat, but I still think it is geolitter. Maybe the guidelines need updated?

define geolitter? I believe we are all guilty of littering when we place plastic containers, or Ammo Cans or anything that is not going to go away in 1000 years. Wooden Stakes that are untreated will go away but also give back to the Earth whereas your Plastic tupperware lock n lock will be there giving earth only Chemicals that will cause harm and not good. So think about it before you talk a lot about geolitter

[Mr.Yuck]

 

Solid stakes. Even has a bunch at the beginning so you can take them and replace any missing.

 

Wouldn't stakes placed (driven/poked) into the ground be a violation of the GS guidelines------------No digging or using a pointed object to place a cache? Just saying..............

Stakes hidden in Sagebrush and not even touching the ground..that is what most of them are.

 

Up until sometime in 2012 or maybe 2011, you wood (pun intended) have been allowed to push stakes into the ground. For example, the ol' phony sprinkler head caches were allowed for years up until the guideline change. Was your original intent to push these into the ground, and it was rejected?

 

Also, are you saying that your reviewer is 100% aware of the fact that your cache containers are wooden stakes that you sign with a pen or pencil? I find it hard to believe they are aware, and the stakes to not meet the guidelines as a container. This is not to say you have not made good points about them being all natural, which they certainly are.

[+niraD]

Are we all not just literally Littering the ground with any kind of a cache be it Ammo Cans or any other container? Are we all not guilty of Littering?

No.

 

I have adequate permission to hide my geocaches. Therefore, they are not litter. (Actually, I have explicit permission, but that's beside the point.)

 

Speaking of things that are beside the point, whether or not caches (with or without adequate permission) are litter is irrelevant. In this case, what matters is whether a wooden stake complies with Groundspeak's current interpretation of their guideline about geocache containers and geocache logs.

 

And AFAICS, you're the first person to refer to wooden stakes as litter in this thread.

[+hans415]

I agree a stake sounds like it violates the guideline about not using a sharp pointy object.

 

A plastic bag is hardly a container. I've seen a couple, but I do have to wonder how many of them previously had containers.

 

I keep meaning to carry a container for when I find plastic bags. It seems whenever I have a container on hand I don't find them.

 

I've found a log in an empty chapstick container a few times. I'm surprised someone hasn't thrown it away as trash before I get there. But that is a container at least.

Again Stakes hidden inside Sagebrush not even touching the ground. Stakes should be considered as a Viable Container, The have a place to log; Stake gets full, rain comes, bam, maintenance is done clean stake again. of course we have had no rain or snow at all here in 14 months. All natural wood no Harmful Plastic Chemicals Mother Earth loves wood

[AZcachemeister]

Ok guys I was the Guilty party that started the Stake as a Geocache. Yes I am the Guy that started the Cas run and TS run in Nevada. Wile many people disagree that it is a legit container or not think about all you are saying. You call a wooden stake Geo-Litter or a Plastic bag taped or stapled to the Stake as Geo-Litter. Are we all not just literally Littering the ground with any kind of a cache be it Ammo Cans or any other container? Are we all not guilty of Littering? Plastic Containers will take decades and decades to disintegrate while wooden stakes will only take 8 to 10 years to give back to mother Nature. Stakes are all natural and therefore you would not be guilty of Littering. Also Stakes are wood untreated and so therefore Environmentally Friendly. Paper is made from wood with a lot of different chemicals so there fore is not environmentally Friendly. Untreated Stakes again are all Natural and so will only give back to the Earth instead of harming the environment as your Plastic containers are doing. Think about it. You all want to say that Stakes cannot be legal. Here is what Geocacheing.com says. Geocache Contents

 

Geocache containers include a logsheet or logbook.

 

For all physical caches, there must be a logbook, scroll or other type of log for geocachers to record their visit.

Well again where can they not sign? Other type is not specific, so I am using real wood and not Chemically Treated Paper. So in closing Who is the Litterbug?

 

Plastic will have degraded and disappeared within a few years...ten at the most if not somehow protected.

I have seen wood stakes over 50 years old lying in the desert with readable numbers still on them.

 

It's not about littering the landscape (since a conscientious Geocacher will remove any remnants of an archived cache...you do remove the remnants of your archived caches, don't you?), but it is rather about what truly constitutes a viable geocache.

 

Why not simply attach a QR code sticker to a sagebrush bush and call it good?

Because it's NOT Geocaching.

 

Hopefully your reviewer will soon be taking a closer look at your hides to determine if they really do comply with the guidelines.

[+hans415]

I know that most people do get set in their ways and do not like to think so much out of the box. They are in their comfort zone being inside the box all the time. Wooden Survey Stakes on a power run make sense if you all just really think about it. They are all natural They will give back to Earth with no Chemicals like Plastic does. They are quick and easy to sign. Instead of putting 2000 35 mm canisters on Floor of mother earth why not something all natural? Paper is made mostly from wood with a lot of added Chemicals. so I am using wood that gives back. They find a Stake inside a Sagebrush sign it and go on to next. Yes I know there is a lot of GEO Police out there that will never change their minds and they will always try and get your Run Archived. I have always wondered if I challenged this in court to which would be the better Cache wood stake or a 35mm would would win. I am pretty sure I could get the environmentalist on my side lol . Seriously people think about it Wood stakes versus Plastic which one is Litter? Also rules were made but Rules on Geocaching has changed a lot over the years and can be changed again if I can just get them to see wood Stakes are a Viable Container.

Edited November 6, 2012 by hans415

[AZcachemeister]

I know that most people do get set in their ways and do not like to think so much out of the box. They are in their comfort zone being inside the box all the time. Wooden Survey Stakes on a power run make sense if you all just really think about it. They are all natural They will give back to Earth with no Chemicals like Plastic does. They are quick and easy to sign. Instead of putting 2000 35 mm canisters on Floor of mother earth why not something all natural? Paper is made mostly from wood with a lot of added Chemicals. so I am using wood that gives back. They find a Stake inside a Sagebrush sign it and go on to next. Yes I know there is a lot of GEO Police out there that will never change their minds and they will always try and get your Run Archived. I have always wondered if I challenged this in court to which would be the better Cache wood stake or a 35mm would would win. I am pretty sure I could get the environmentalist on my side lol . Seriously people think about it Wood stakes versus Plastic which one is Litter? Also rules were made but Rules on Geocaching has changed a lot over the years and can be changed again if I can just get them to see wood Stakes are a Viable Container.

 

Finding wood stakes in the desert could certainly be a fun game.

Geocaching is finding a container with a log inside to be signed.

 

A chunk of pine wood 500 miles from the nearest pine forest is no less objectionable than a piece of plastic, metal, or rubber. Each came from the earth, and each will return in their own time.

[+hans415]

I know that most people do get set in their ways and do not like to think so much out of the box. They are in their comfort zone being inside the box all the time. Wooden Survey Stakes on a power run make sense if you all just really think about it. They are all natural They will give back to Earth with no Chemicals like Plastic does. They are quick and easy to sign. Instead of putting 2000 35 mm canisters on Floor of mother earth why not something all natural? Paper is made mostly from wood with a lot of added Chemicals. so I am using wood that gives back. They find a Stake inside a Sagebrush sign it and go on to next. Yes I know there is a lot of GEO Police out there that will never change their minds and they will always try and get your Run Archived. I have always wondered if I challenged this in court to which would be the better Cache wood stake or a 35mm would would win. I am pretty sure I could get the environmentalist on my side lol . Seriously people think about it Wood stakes versus Plastic which one is Litter? Also rules were made but Rules on Geocaching has changed a lot over the years and can be changed again if I can just get them to see wood Stakes are a Viable Container.

 

Finding wood stakes in the desert could certainly be a fun game.

Geocaching is finding a container with a log inside to be signed.

 

A chunk of pine wood 500 miles from the nearest pine forest is no less objectionable than a piece of plastic, metal, or rubber. Each came from the earth, and each will return in their own time.

Really actually there is a lot of pine trees around here. Stakes ARE a container it contains as much as any nano does wood instead of treated paper. But you are one that maybe would never change mind even if rules were changed to include stakes. I do not know but it sounds like that.

[+hans415]

Ok guys I was the Guilty party that started the Stake as a Geocache. Yes I am the Guy that started the Cas run and TS run in Nevada. Wile many people disagree that it is a legit container or not think about all you are saying. You call a wooden stake Geo-Litter or a Plastic bag taped or stapled to the Stake as Geo-Litter. Are we all not just literally Littering the ground with any kind of a cache be it Ammo Cans or any other container? Are we all not guilty of Littering? Plastic Containers will take decades and decades to disintegrate while wooden stakes will only take 8 to 10 years to give back to mother Nature. Stakes are all natural and therefore you would not be guilty of Littering. Also Stakes are wood untreated and so therefore Environmentally Friendly. Paper is made from wood with a lot of different chemicals so there fore is not environmentally Friendly. Untreated Stakes again are all Natural and so will only give back to the Earth instead of harming the environment as your Plastic containers are doing. Think about it. You all want to say that Stakes cannot be legal. Here is what Geocacheing.com says. Geocache Contents

 

Geocache containers include a logsheet or logbook.

 

For all physical caches, there must be a logbook, scroll or other type of log for geocachers to record their visit.

Well again where can they not sign? Other type is not specific, so I am using real wood and not Chemically Treated Paper. So in closing Who is the Litterbug?

 

Plastic will have degraded and disappeared within a few years...ten at the most if not somehow protected.

I have seen wood stakes over 50 years old lying in the desert with readable numbers still on them.

 

It's not about littering the landscape (since a conscientious Geocacher will remove any remnants of an archived cache...you do remove the remnants of your archived caches, don't you?), but it is rather about what truly constitutes a viable geocache.

 

Why not simply attach a QR code sticker to a sagebrush bush and call it good?

Because it's NOT Geocaching.

 

Hopefully your reviewer will soon be taking a closer look at your hides to determine if they really do comply with the guidelines.

Plastic will not degrade as quickly as you think. And again Plastic is Chemical that is proven to harm and be harmful. I see another Geo-Police here also by statement No a qr code is not but may be soon if Geocaching takes over Munzee and they may be in the works real soon. To you nothing but a Large container is geocaching?

[+hans415]

AZcachemeister says A chunk of pine wood 500 miles from the nearest pine forest is no less objectionable than a piece of plastic, metal, or rubber. Each came from the earth, and each will return in their own time. Sigh to educate them is a tough thing to do. Yes I know I will take a lot of flack on these post, because Some People just do not like change at all.

Drop a ketchup bottle on the floor, and you'll be thankful for polyethylene terephthalate, or PET, the nearly indestructible plastic used to make most containers and bottles. Drop the same bottle into a landfill, however, and you might have second thoughts. Why? Because petroleum-based plastics like PET don't decompose the same way organic material does. Wood, grass and food scraps undergo a process known as biodegradation when they're buried, which is a fancy way of saying they're transformed by bacteria in the soil into other useful compounds. But bacteria turn up their noses at plastic. Load their dinner plates with some plastic bags and bottles, and the one-celled gluttons will skip the meal entirely.

 

Based on this logic, it's safe to argue that plastic will never biodegrade. Of course, that's not the end of the story. Daniel Burd, a student at Waterloo Collegiate Institute, recently demonstrated that certain types of bacteria can break down plastic. His research earned the top prize at the Canada-wide Science Fair, earning him $10,000 cash and a $20,000 scholarship [source: Kawawada].

 

Until other researchers can replicate Burd's experiment and waste treatment plants can implement any new processes, the only real way to break down plastic is through photodegradation. This kind of decomposition requires sunlight, not bacteria. When UV rays strike plastic, they break the bonds holding the long molecular chain together. Over time, this can turn a big piece of plastic into lots of little pieces.

 

Of course, plastic buried in a landfill rarely sees the light of day. But in the ocean, which is where a lot of discarded grocery bags, soft drink bottles and six-pack rings end up, plastic is bathed in as much light as water. In 2009, researchers from Nihon University in Chiba, Japan, found that plastic in warm ocean water can degrade in as little as a year. This doesn't sound so bad until you realize those small bits of plastic are toxic chemicals such as bisphenol A (BPA) and PS oligomer. These end up in the guts of animals or wash up on shorelines, where humans are most likely to come into direct contact with the toxins.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/everyday-myths/how-long-does-it-take-for-plastics-to-biodegrade.htm

 

WOOD decomposing

Products we use daily live anywhere from 3 weeks to a million years. Ok, maybe that is not forever, but close. Make a stand today to use these products less, and find ways to reduce, reuse and recycle! HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO DECOMPOSE
: Banana Peel- 3-4 weeks Orange peels- 6 months Apple Core- 2 months Paper Bag- 1 month Cardboard- 2 months Milk Cartons- 5 years Newspaper- 6 weeks Paper Towel- 2-4 weeks Cotton Glove- 3 months Tinned Steel Can- 50 years Aluminum Can- 200-500 years Disposable Diapers- 550 years Plastic Bags- 20-1000 years Glass- 1-2 million years Cigarette Butts- 10-12 years Leather shoes- 25-40 years Rubber-Boot Sole- 50-80 years Plastic containers- 50-80 years Monofilament Fishing Line- 600 years Foamed Plastic Cups- 50 years Wool Sock- 1-5 years Plywood or Wood- Plastic Bottles- 450 years

 

HMM say that again 1-5 years on wood, Plastic containers 50-80 years hmm

[+hans415]

so Tell me again AZcachemeister how fast Plastic Bio-degrades?

[+niraD]

They are quick and easy to sign.

Okay, you've convinced me. Wooden stakes are great logs. Now where's the container?

 

Stakes ARE a container it contains as much as any nano does wood instead of treated paper.

I don't think so. Every blinker or other nano-cache that I've opened has had a log inside. Every wooden stake that I've opened has... uh... um... just how do you open a wooden stake?

 

BTW, you aren't suggesting that people sign the container are you?

[+hans415]

They are quick and easy to sign.

Okay, you've convinced me. Wooden stakes are great logs. Now where's the container?

 

Stakes ARE a container it contains as much as any nano does wood instead of treated paper.

I don't think so. Every blinker or other nano-cache that I've opened has had a log inside. Every wooden stake that I've opened has... uh... um... just how do you open a wooden stake?

 

BTW, you aren't suggesting that people sign the container are you?

 

sigh No need to be snide on these as I am well aware of all that everyone will say. Why does a Container have to open to be a Geocache Container? As long as there is a clear place to sign the Geocache Container why does it have to open? Does it all have to be the same? Isn't that why there is a few hundred thousand different types of Geocache Containers? From homemade to Manufactured to anyones imagination it can be a container, but why does it have to open?

[+niraD]

Why does a Container have to open to be a Geocache Container?

con·tain·er /kən ˈtā nər/ Noun: An object that can be used to hold or transport something.

 

Okay, let's say your stakes don't need to open to be containers. But how do they "hold or transport something"?

[Mr.Yuck]

Again, does your reviewer know that your "containers" are wooden stakes, and are they OK with that? Debating a few regular players here in the forums is not going to stop your Power Trail from being archived if they are not deemed to be in compliance with the guidelines.

[+ShadowAce]

Ok guys I was the Guilty party that started the Stake as a Geocache. Yes I am the Guy that started the Cas run and TS run in Nevada. Wile many people disagree that it is a legit container or not think about all you are saying. You call a wooden stake Geo-Litter or a Plastic bag taped or stapled to the Stake as Geo-Litter. Are we all not just literally Littering the ground with any kind of a cache be it Ammo Cans or any other container? Are we all not guilty of Littering? Plastic Containers will take decades and decades to disintegrate while wooden stakes will only take 8 to 10 years to give back to mother Nature. Stakes are all natural and therefore you would not be guilty of Littering. Also Stakes are wood untreated and so therefore Environmentally Friendly. Paper is made from wood with a lot of different chemicals so there fore is not environmentally Friendly. Untreated Stakes again are all Natural and so will only give back to the Earth instead of harming the environment as your Plastic containers are doing. Think about it. You all want to say that Stakes cannot be legal. Here is what Geocacheing.com says. Geocache Contents

 

Geocache containers include a logsheet or logbook.

 

For all physical caches, there must be a logbook, scroll or other type of log for geocachers to record their visit.

Well again where can they not sign? Other type is not specific, so I am using real wood and not Chemically Treated Paper. So in closing Who is the Litterbug?

 

I am confused. Was that series not, as I was informed, a series of stakes with DNA containers on them with logs in the containers?

 

I had been told that the series in Nevada were not simply wooden stakes, they had containers and that is why they were legit caches.

 

Yet from your posting, it sounds like you just said people are supposed to sign the stake. Yes?

[+hans415]

Why does a Container have to open to be a Geocache Container?

con·tain·er /kən ˈtā nər/ Noun: An object that can be used to hold or transport something.

 

Okay, let's say your stakes don't need to open to be containers. But how do they "hold or transport something"?

Wow you finally learned the word container and what the dictionary says it is.

[+Totem Clan]

Why does a Container have to open to be a Geocache Container?

con·tain·er /kən ˈtā nər/ Noun: An object that can be used to hold or transport something.

 

Okay, let's say your stakes don't need to open to be containers. But how do they "hold or transport something"?

Wow you finally learned the word container and what the dictionary says it is.

A question was alos asked. Do you care to answer it?

[+hans415]

Ok guys I was the Guilty party that started the Stake as a Geocache. Yes I am the Guy that started the Cas run and TS run in Nevada. Wile many people disagree that it is a legit container or not think about all you are saying. You call a wooden stake Geo-Litter or a Plastic bag taped or stapled to the Stake as Geo-Litter. Are we all not just literally Littering the ground with any kind of a cache be it Ammo Cans or any other container? Are we all not guilty of Littering? Plastic Containers will take decades and decades to disintegrate while wooden stakes will only take 8 to 10 years to give back to mother Nature. Stakes are all natural and therefore you would not be guilty of Littering. Also Stakes are wood untreated and so therefore Environmentally Friendly. Paper is made from wood with a lot of different chemicals so there fore is not environmentally Friendly. Untreated Stakes again are all Natural and so will only give back to the Earth instead of harming the environment as your Plastic containers are doing. Think about it. You all want to say that Stakes cannot be legal. Here is what Geocacheing.com says. Geocache Contents

 

Geocache containers include a logsheet or logbook.

 

For all physical caches, there must be a logbook, scroll or other type of log for geocachers to record their visit.

Well again where can they not sign? Other type is not specific, so I am using real wood and not Chemically Treated Paper. So in closing Who is the Litterbug?

 

I am confused. Was that series not, as I was informed, a series of stakes with DNA containers on them with logs in the containers?

 

I had been told that the series in Nevada were not simply wooden stakes, they had containers and that is why they were legit caches.

 

Yet from your posting, it sounds like you just said people are supposed to sign the stake. Yes?

you again misread or I did not explain it fully for you all to understand, originally they were stakes only but were changed. I am still stampeding to get Groudspeak to accept stakes as a Viable container. Take for example an earth cache..opps no container needed yet it is a cache. and the more one talks about it The squeaky wheel gets noticed and talked about.

[+hans415]

why not if the container requires it. see you guys just do not think outside the box. you say rules are rules. I know that rules can and always are changed. As Groundspeak has changed many of them

[+Totem Clan]

why not if the container requires it. see you guys just do not think outside the box. you say rules are rules. I know that rules can and always are changed. As Groundspeak has changed many of them

After they are changed then it will be within guidelines, but until then it's not.

 

What's so hard to understand about that?

[+hans415]

wow How do you get rules changed? what is so hard for you to understand that. You think if no one talks about it the rules will just be Magically changed? Really I was putting feelers out to see what the community thought. Maybe I need to go to other Caching forums also and test the waters there. I had to change the stakes by putting dna tubes in them because of closed mindedness. But funny thing is everyone that does the run gets it after they see it they say hey we get it. So maybe if you all actually did it you might just get it. BTW this came up as People are signing stakes instead of opening the DNA tube. Now reviewer wants them changed again. They are signing the Stake I say it is good.

[+hans415]

BTw not all the run is just dna stakes there is many different actual Cache containers from Bubble gum machines to Telephones, to Very very Large elecrtrical boxes to things I found in the desert like a water ski Skateboard, Tin Cans, Old Bottles, Rocks and some created ones like the Famous Slider and the also Famous Flipper. From shotgun shells to 44 shells, to Extra large Nanos what we call the desert Nano about 4 feet long and 12 inch opening. so it isnt just all dna stakes. we have all spectrum's for the Fizzie from 1x1 to 5x5 and reverse. It is like no other power run you have done.

[+tozainamboku]

The reason hans415 is arguing about what "container" means is because the guidelines are far from clear on this.

 

3. Geocache Contents

Geocache containers include a logsheet or logbook.

1. For all physical caches, there must be a logbook, scroll or other type of log for geocachers to record their visit.
   

So perhaps a container must have an "inside" that can "contain" thing. It's easy enough to imagine the solid wooden stake as being able to "contain" nails or tacks hammered into it. Of if that's not good enough, drill a hole in it and put things inside the hole. It's pretty silly that you can put a log in a plastic baggie and no one has a problem, but leave something that is a far more likely to last and not be picked up as trash or blown way by the wind and the complaints begin.

 

The guidelines don't explicitly say that the log must be separate or that it must be "inside" the container. Some may want to infer that "include" means inside. But the stake includes a pointy end and a flat end. And if you write on it (like a log) it will include the writing, so it's not so black and white that wooden stake that you write on are not within the guidelines.

 

Perhaps if TPTB would deign to reveal the rationale for the container/log guideline it would be easier to understand. I don't doubt that there were some caches that caused problems. Perhaps they were likely to encourage defacement of property, perhaps they presented certain difficulties with maintenance of the the log. But without knowing what it is that this guideline is trying to prevent it seems unreasonable, especially as applied to wooden stakes and other flat geocaches.

[+hans415]

At least one Person gets it. Thank you

[+Totem Clan]

wow How do you get rules changed? what is so hard for you to understand that. You think if no one talks about it the rules will just be Magically changed? Really I was putting feelers out to see what the community thought. Maybe I need to go to other Caching forums also and test the waters there. I had to change the stakes by putting dna tubes in them because of closed mindedness. But funny thing is everyone that does the run gets it after they see it they say hey we get it. So maybe if you all actually did it you might just get it. BTW this came up as People are signing stakes instead of opening the DNA tube. Now reviewer wants them changed again. They are signing the Stake I say it is good.

Nobody said you could ask for the guidelines to be changed. They just said don't break the guidelines. Wait until the change.

 

Why is that so hard for you to understand.

[AZcachemeister]

so Tell me again AZcachemeister how fast Plastic Bio-degrades?

 

Who said anything about bio?

 

Ozone and U.V. do the job quite nicely.

[+hans415]

wow How do you get rules changed? what is so hard for you to understand that. You think if no one talks about it the rules will just be Magically changed? Really I was putting feelers out to see what the community thought. Maybe I need to go to other Caching forums also and test the waters there. I had to change the stakes by putting dna tubes in them because of closed mindedness. But funny thing is everyone that does the run gets it after they see it they say hey we get it. So maybe if you all actually did it you might just get it. BTW this came up as People are signing stakes instead of opening the DNA tube. Now reviewer wants them changed again. They are signing the Stake I say it is good.

Nobody said you could ask for the guidelines to be changed. They just said don't break the guidelines. Wait until the change.

 

Why is that so hard for you to understand.

Totem what is it you don't understand that rules never change unless someone brings it up or does something to get them changed

[+hans415]

Ok all I have been waiting for someone to think of this, but looks as if no one will so I will approach it. Magnetic Strips Placed on Poles or Boxes we have all found them they have the log either Pasted on Back or I have see them manufactured with a wipe off log. Some say Warning High Voltage, some say something else. These are not "Containers" yet they are accepted as a nice evil Cache and no one complains. There is no difference in Magnetic non-containers and a wooden Stake.

[AZcachemeister]

Ok all I have been waiting for someone to think of this, but looks as if no one will so I will approach it. Magnetic Strips Placed on Poles or Boxes we have all found them they have the log either Pasted on Back or I have see them manufactured with a wipe off log. Some say Warning High Voltage, some say something else. These are not "Containers" yet they are accepted as a nice evil Cache and no one complains. There is no difference in Magnetic non-containers and a wooden Stake.

 

Not allowed, and will get archived if the reviewer is notified.

[+hans415]

Ok all I have been waiting for someone to think of this, but looks as if no one will so I will approach it. Magnetic Strips Placed on Poles or Boxes we have all found them they have the log either Pasted on Back or I have see them manufactured with a wipe off log. Some say Warning High Voltage, some say something else. These are not "Containers" yet they are accepted as a nice evil Cache and no one complains. There is no difference in Magnetic non-containers and a wooden Stake.

 

Not allowed, and will get archived if the reviewer is notified.

no it doesn't. I know of some that are over 8 years old and also placed by Reviewers... try something else

[+hans415]

I have seen them for sale on Groundspeak and every other cacheing store. Also Utility plates are not a container

Edited November 6, 2012 by hans415

[Mr.Yuck]

Ok all I have been waiting for someone to think of this, but looks as if no one will so I will approach it. Magnetic Strips Placed on Poles or Boxes we have all found them they have the log either Pasted on Back or I have see them manufactured with a wipe off log. Some say Warning High Voltage, some say something else. These are not "Containers" yet they are accepted as a nice evil Cache and no one complains. There is no difference in Magnetic non-containers and a wooden Stake.

 

Not allowed, and will get archived if the reviewer is notified.

no it doesn't. I know of some that are over 8 years old and also placed by Reviewers... try something else

 

I don't have a date for you on the guideline change, but they are no longer allowed. And of course someone who didn't know could have placed one last week, and "got away" with it. The reviewers don't know, or ask, what the container is.