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Quasi Cachers


Don_J
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The other night, I was coming home from our monthly M&G and approaching one of my friends caches when I see an SUV pull up and four young men jump out and start scouring the area. I think, cool, geocachers, let's see who they are. So I pull over and say "Hi, who are you guys, what's your geocaching names?" Well, it turns out that none of them have ever bothered to create an account on Geocaching.com, or any other caching site. Only one of them has even bothered to look at the GC home page. They have a "free" app on their phones that gives them the names, coordinates, and descriptions of nearby caches. They say that they have been doing this for months and have found over a hundred caches. That particular night, they were competing against four of their friends to see which group could find the most caches. I will say that they were respectful to the cache, signed the log and put it back properly, but the whole thing really kind of bothered me. I explained to them that people like me that hide caches appreciate seeing that people have found them and with no feedback at all, we probably wouldn't hide as many for them to find. I also explained about the Meet n' Greet that I was coming back from and how geocachers get together to hang out, have picnics and other things. I think I convinced at least one to create an account. Bear in mind, I was not lecturing them, just trying to be friendly.

 

I have been thinking about this and I really don't like that people can look up caches with out even investing the time to create an account. They have not looked at the website, any of the guidelines or any of the basic ideas that go into looking for or hiding caches. I did ask them what the next closest cache was and it was not actually the next next closest, which is a PMO cache. I guess at least those are hidden from their app, which gives me better reason to keep my urban caches as such.

Edited by Don_J
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I know someone who has forgotten his account details and can't log in, so essentially he is doing the same thing, just caching for the fun of it and signing the paper log with no logging on-line. It's not all about the numbers/smileys ;)

 

I know these particular guys said they haven't registered anywhere, but remember also this isn't the only listing site, you don't have to join geocaching.com to go geocaching.

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I know someone who has forgotten his account details and can't log in, so essentially he is doing the same thing, just caching for the fun of it and signing the paper log with no logging on-line. It's not all about the numbers/smileys ;)

 

I know these particular guys said they haven't registered anywhere, but remember also this isn't the only listing site, you don't have to join geocaching.com to go geocaching.

 

The cache they were looking for is only listed here. I think that you missed most of my points however. There are people that don't post finds because they don't care about the numbers, but they do post notes that let the CO know that their cache was found. As a cache owner, I depend on the logs to tell me the status of my caches. I also get a warm fuzzy feeling when I read that people are enjoying finding my caches. Take that away and there is really no point in hiding them. What these guys are doing is counter productive to the game.

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I didn't miss your points, I understand what you are saying, and as a cache owner as well I also enjoy reading logs and knowing that people are enjoying the caches. And that DNF/NM logs are very helpful too indicating possible problems. And I also prefer that members find my caches as they are more likely to respect and replace the cache properly after finding. :)

 

But I also understand some people will find them without logging online...Are they required to log online? Isn't this is just a listing site? A valid find is just signing the paper log as I understand it? And that is required to log online, but logging online itself isn't required?

 

I'd imagine people who do cache this way without logging online are a very small minority and have very little impact though and I can't see how it's counter-productive. They replaced the cache properly and did nothing wrong from what I can tell from your post. It sounds like they behaved better and with more respect for the cache than some members do! ;)

 

(The ones that get to me are the ones who log finds online but don't log DNF's because they think it's some kind of failure instead of helping cache owners see there's a potential problem, doh! But that's a whole other can 'of worms ;) )

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I know a guy here with an account but not logging anything. He told me that anyone can track you down and know where you been if you log them online. He want his privacy. I can see his point.

 

Oh, hes a PM as well! Yes, I know his account name too.

Edited by SwineFlew
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I see the OP's point.

 

I see a difference between:

 

1. Someone who has registered on the site, and uses it to find caches, but chooses not to log them online and

2. Someone who has not registered, and are getting the coordinates from the free smartphone app

 

Well they are the same in terms of the cache owner won't get logs.. but with case 1 the finders are more likely to be familiar with the guidelines etc.

 

I didn't realize the free app allowed cachers to find caches on geocaching.com without registering. It is a similar case as the Geomate Jr thing.

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I know someone who has forgotten his account details and can't log in, so essentially he is doing the same thing, just caching for the fun of it and signing the paper log with no logging on-line. It's not all about the numbers/smileys ;)

 

I know these particular guys said they haven't registered anywhere, but remember also this isn't the only listing site, you don't have to join geocaching.com to go geocaching.

 

The cache they were looking for is only listed here. I think that you missed most of my points however. There are people that don't post finds because they don't care about the numbers, but they do post notes that let the CO know that their cache was found. As a cache owner, I depend on the logs to tell me the status of my caches. I also get a warm fuzzy feeling when I read that people are enjoying finding my caches. Take that away and there is really no point in hiding them. What these guys are doing is counter productive to the game.

 

+1

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I didn't realize the free app allowed cachers to find caches on geocaching.com without registering. It is a similar case as the Geomate Jr thing.

Not really.

Buy phone.

Get FREE app to try geocaching. Decide you dont like it. (Some may then decide a better game is to trash the caches or steal the swag...)

 

Buy Geomate. Only use it to cache. Shows some commitment to caching.

 

Admittedly you dont need to log on-line for either method. :)

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I didn't realize the free app allowed cachers to find caches on geocaching.com without registering. It is a similar case as the Geomate Jr thing.

Not really.

Buy phone.

Get FREE app to try geocaching. Decide you dont like it. (Some may then decide a better game is to trash the caches or steal the swag...)

 

Buy Geomate. Only use it to cache. Shows some commitment to caching.

 

Admittedly you dont need to log on-line for either method. :)

Free app...Free membership...Geomate Really no difference. All three could lead to:

Decide you dont like it. (Some may then decide a better game is to trash the caches or steal the swag...)

The only way to harness technology is to turn a blind eye to the fact that you can't.

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I'm sure they were respectful to the cache while you were standing there, but you cannot determine if they always act that way.

 

I have my archive notifications set for a 50 mile radius, and was surprised at the number of caches that get muggled on a regular basis. After replacing half a dozen recently, I've made many of mine MO. Random checks reveal many left out in the open. I don't think regular cachers are doing it, but without a signature, using game cameras is the only way to find out..

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I'm sure they were respectful to the cache while you were standing there, but you cannot determine if they always act that way.

 

I have my archive notifications set for a 50 mile radius, and was surprised at the number of caches that get muggled on a regular basis. After replacing half a dozen recently, I've made many of mine MO. Random checks reveal many left out in the open. I don't think regular cachers are doing it, but without a signature, using game cameras is the only way to find out..

And I wonder how "mystery loggers" may affect TB's that go missing or containers that are improperly put back. It's possible the last geocaching member to enter the log on-line may be suspected.

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Are there other factors that filter out caches from showing up in the free app's nearby cache list? Terrain or difficulty perhaps?

From what I remember from a previous discussion on here, the Groundspeak Intro app only gives you caches under a certain D/T and above a certain size.

Note that the OP said "a free app". That doesn't necessarily mean the official app. They could be using that unauthorized app.

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I didn't realize the free app allowed cachers to find caches on geocaching.com without registering. It is a similar case as the Geomate Jr thing.

Not really.

Buy phone.

Get FREE app to try geocaching. Decide you dont like it. (Some may then decide a better game is to trash the caches or steal the swag...)

 

Buy Geomate. Only use it to cache. Shows some commitment to caching.

 

Admittedly you dont need to log on-line for either method. :)

 

Sorry for not being clear enough. What I meant was it is similar in that it allows you to get cache coordinates without visiting the website (where you can learn more about geocaching).

 

I think the idea of the free app is great. People can try it before deciding to purchase the full app. However I am surprised you don't need to register a (free) account first.

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The site used to show coordinates to anyone whether you had an account or not. Many people found geocaches who never signed up for an account. Later, the was the Geomate Jr. that cam pre-loaded with caches. People bought it and found caches without an account. For a time Groundspeak allowed Garmin and other manufacturers to post coordinates of geocaches on their websites to promote geocaching. The free app is simply another way to get people interested in geocaching.

 

Unlike cache owners, Groundspeak doesn't care if you log a find or not. They are simply interested in getting more people interested in geocaching. Once "hooked" they hope the people upgrade to premium memberships and the full featured app. Sure if they log their finds online, that means getting on the website and seeing ads. But that is less a part of Groundspeak's business strategy than in the past. The goal now is to get premium members and to sell apps and other merchandise.

 

I think Groundspeak might be concerned that people have figured out how to overcome the limitations of the "free" app. The free app allows you to find 3 geocaches. I'm not sure if this per day or if they have found a way to "reset" and get more. Even if it's per day, take a car full of 5 people with iPhones and they can find 15 geocaches. If they're using an "unofficial" app that is allowing more caches without needing an account, that is something else that Groundspeak may want to look into.

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I know a number of people that do this.

 

They have not registered, they have not read the rules, they do not log their finds online, they may not even bother signing the logbook, they do not always replace swag they take. They haven't spent time reading past logs so they are not really aware of issues such as caches disappearing or not being rehidden properly.

 

I'm glad they're having fun, but if this becomes rampant, it's going to get very lame for cache owners. I enjoy reading the logs and without that, it's kind of pointless to hide a cache. I think if people don't feel connected to the community and have some sort of feeling of accountability, this will cause more caches to disappear and swag to be depleted more rapidly.

 

It's kind of like grabbing a free sample at the grocery store and not taking the time to acknowledge to the person standing in front of you. Or perhaps it's like those who lurk on forums and never post. Creepy.

 

I have checked a number of my logbooks and surprisingly there are always signatures on the physical logbook that do not have a corresponding online log. :unsure:

Edited by The_Incredibles_
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I have checked a number of my logbooks and surprisingly there are always signatures on the physical logbook that do not have a corresponding online log. :unsure:

Do like I do and cross out the cheaters' names. :ph34r:

 

Really... Cheaters? And this accomplishes what exactly? rolleyes.gif Troll much?

 

I think Toz's tongue was buried so deep in his cheek there, you would at least need a backhoe to dig it out. :lol:

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I think this is fairly common- I got my start with the "free" app on my smartphone and think I found my first ten or so before buying the "proper" app- the trick was if you didn't log the cache and mark it as found it didn't count towards your three finds. :anibad: The app doesn't actually show you all the caches in your area though, so eventually I bought the proper app (plus it's just easier for keeping track of caches in an area you've found).

 

I know plenty of people who find caches but don't log them online though, and don't see a problem with it. For whatever reason for example I have run into kids geocaching more than once on hikes in New Hampshire- new twist on parents kicking them out of the house I guess- and while they'd sign the family account on occasion I don't think any of them ever logged them online properly (though so far the kids I've found caching were always good about trading etc before anyone asks!).

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