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Why so few minority geocachers?


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It seems there's plenty of research on the subject of ethnic variation in outdoors pursuits.

 

For example (link) ...

 

Research has been conducted to explore potential reasons for underrepresentation of racial/ethnic minorities in national parks, identify barriers to visitation among racial/ethnic minorities, and understand differences in recreation choices and preferences between people of color and Whites (Dwyer and Hutchison, 1990; Dwyer and Gobster, 1992; Dwyer, 1993; Hutchison, 1987; Johnson, Bowker, and Cordell, 2001; Payne, Mowen, and Orsega-Smith, 2002; Tinsely, Tinsley, and Croskeys, 2002; West, 1989). This body of research has led to the development of four hypotheses or theories to help explain racial/ethnic minority underrepresentation in outdoor recreation, including attendance at national parks (Floyd, 1999; Gomez, 2002; Johnson, Bowker, English, and Worthen, 1998). These hypotheses are:
 
  • Marginality: The marginality hypothesis attributes differences in racial/ethnic minority representation to socioeconomic factors or measures of social class, such as limited financial resources, lower levels of education, and limited employment opportunities caused by historical discrimination. (Floyd, 1998; Floyd, Shinew, McGuire, and Noe, 1994; Dwyer and Hutchison, 1990; Lindsay and Ogle, 1972; Washburne, 1978; Woodward, 1988)
     
  • Subcultuel/Ethnicity: The subculture/ethnicity hypothesis recognizes the influence of marginality on leisure and recreation patterns but attributes differences in national park visitation at least partially to cultural norms, value systems, social organizations, and socialization practices. Examples of cultural values or norms can include size of recreational groups, preferred activities (e.g., hiking, biking, swimming, picnicking), and development level of sites (e.g., bathrooms, pavilions, visitor centers). (Chavez, 2000; Dwyer and Hutchison, 1990; Dwyer and Gobster, 1992; Dwyer, 1993; Floyd, 1999; Gobster, 2002; Washburne, 1978)
     
  • Discrimination: The discrimination hypothesis places importance on contemporary, post civil rights discrimination that occurs from interpersonal contact with other visitors or park personnel or through institutional policies. (Blahna and Black, 1993; Floyd, 1999; Gobster and Delgado, 1992; Roberts, 2007)
     
  • Opportunity: The opportunity hypothesis examines the relationship between the residential location of minority populations, recreational sites, and recreation preferences. (Hauser, 1962; Lindsay and Ogle, 1972; O’Leary and Benjamin, 1982; Payne, Mowen, and Orsega-Smith, 2002)
     
  • Acculturation: The acculturation hypothesis examines the relationship between cultural assimilation into the majority culture and recreational choices. According to this hypothesis, as a minority culture assimilates into the majority culture, they begin to take on the recreational patterns of the majority culture. (Floyd, 1999)

Research has also examined potential barriers to visitation by minority racial and ethnic groups (Payne, Mowen, and Orsega-Smith, 2002; Solop, Hagen, and Ostergren, 2003; Tinsley, Tinsley, and Croskeys, 2002). These barriers can include:

 

  • Transportation: Ability to get to a national park or natural recreation site.
     
  • Knowledge: Lack of knowledge about where parks are located and what activities parks offer.
     
  • Expense: Both the internal cost of visiting a park (entrance fees) and the external cost of visiting a park (lodging, transportation, food, etc.).
     
  • Interpretation and History: Lack of interpretation in parks relating to minority history and culture.

 

 

How embarassing for the National Park Service to publish such "theories".

 

But the NPS missed the obvious. Most people don't go around introducing themselves by their ethnic percentages. They enjoy the outdoors just fine without comparing skin color, nor breaking everyone up into "minority groups".

Edited by kunarion
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How embarassing for the National Park Service to publish such "theories".

Oh, please. When there's obviously low attendance by non-Caucasians at National Parks, it makes perfect sense that the NPS and others should ask to what extent that's a problem that needs fixing. There's no need for you to be embarrassed by social science.

 

Another couple of quotes (from a different report) for inquiring minds:

The results from the study done by Floyd, et al. have been supported by studies performed by other researchers. A study by Dwyer and Hutchinson discovered that African-Americans tended to prefer developed facilities and conveniences more than Whites. Their surveys indicated that 53% of African Americans showed a strong preference for developed facilities, as opposed to 24% of Whites. Conversely, 57% of Whites showed a strong preference for preserved natural areas, compared to only 27% of African-Americans.

and

In 1990, Irwin, Gartner, and Phelps conducted a study comparing differences in environmental preferences between Whites and Hispanics. The study, preformed at a New Mexico campground, found that both Whites and Hispanics preferred minimally developed campgrounds. However, the group ethic groups had different interpretations of development. Those surveyed were asked to list their priorities in facilities and design when choosing a campground. White people listed quiet surroundings (24%), privacy (14%), water (14%), and space between campsites (13%) as their major priorities. On the other hand, Hispanics listed toilets (39%), camping space at each site (25%), water (14%), and fire rings (8%). Furthermore, Whites tended to prefer being far away from other campers more than Hispanics (67% vs. 28% respectively). (Irwin, et al., 1990)

 

Interesting how different people are.

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How embarassing for the National Park Service to publish such "theories".

Oh, please. When there's obviously low attendance by non-Caucasians at National Parks, it makes perfect sense that the NPS and others should ask to what extent that's a problem that needs fixing. There's no need for you to be embarrassed by social science.

 

Another couple of quotes (from a different report) for inquiring minds:

The results from the study done by Floyd, et al. have been supported by studies performed by other researchers. A study by Dwyer and Hutchinson discovered that African-Americans tended to prefer developed facilities and conveniences more than Whites. Their surveys indicated that 53% of African Americans showed a strong preference for developed facilities, as opposed to 24% of Whites. Conversely, 57% of Whites showed a strong preference for preserved natural areas, compared to only 27% of African-Americans.

and

In 1990, Irwin, Gartner, and Phelps conducted a study comparing differences in environmental preferences between Whites and Hispanics. The study, preformed at a New Mexico campground, found that both Whites and Hispanics preferred minimally developed campgrounds. However, the group ethic groups had different interpretations of development. Those surveyed were asked to list their priorities in facilities and design when choosing a campground. White people listed quiet surroundings (24%), privacy (14%), water (14%), and space between campsites (13%) as their major priorities. On the other hand, Hispanics listed toilets (39%), camping space at each site (25%), water (14%), and fire rings (8%). Furthermore, Whites tended to prefer being far away from other campers more than Hispanics (67% vs. 28% respectively). (Irwin, et al., 1990)

 

Interesting how different people are.

 

I agree. I see this inquiry is an academic social science investigation.

 

I started wondering about the demographics of GPS purchasers. Found this statistical page about Garmin demographics:

 

http://www.quantcast.com/garmin.com#!demo

 

According to this QuantCast site 85% of Garmin purchasers are caucasian.

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How embarassing for the National Park Service to publish such "theories".

Oh, please. When there's obviously low attendance by non-Caucasians at National Parks, it makes perfect sense that the NPS and others should ask to what extent that's a problem that needs fixing. There's no need for you to be embarrassed by social science.

I dunno... I find it a little embarrassing that they need to actually do studies and come up with official theories when a discussion around any water cooler would come up with the same results.

 

Where, by the way, are the Native Americans in those theories? After all... they are the ones that (*cough!!*) gave us those lands in the first place.

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Oh, please. When there's obviously low attendance by non-Caucasians at National Parks, it makes perfect sense that the NPS and others should ask to what extent that's a problem that needs fixing. There's no need for you to be embarrassed by social science.

OK, so if I want some of every skin color in my Geocaching group, do I kick out the ones there are too many of? Let's say there are 20, and they're all deemed to be all white people. Do I kick out everyone and start over with new people by shades of skin color? Are 20 shades enough? What if I miss a skin color, or they're hard to get? And what about albinos? I need to get some of every ethnicity of albino, right? I'm thinking the group must include all possible variations at all times. If one is missing, none of us will attend the Event nor go Geocaching. Simple.

 

And the National Parks should line everyone up in their own groups, but dispense them in packs of all different colors.

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How embarassing for the National Park Service to publish such "theories".

Oh, please. When there's obviously low attendance by non-Caucasians at National Parks, it makes perfect sense that the NPS and others should ask to what extent that's a problem that needs fixing. There's no need for you to be embarrassed by social science.

I dunno... I find it a little embarrassing that they need to actually do studies and come up with official theories when a discussion around any water cooler would come up with the same results.

 

Where, by the way, are the Native Americans in those theories? After all... they are the ones that (*cough!!*) gave us those lands in the first place.

 

If you had a business and it was clear that a certain segment of society was not using your product or service, would you just figure out the problem "around the water cooler". As it is a federal agency, they can't fix ot around the water cooler, they are supposed to be transparent. Can you imagine the uproar that would occur if it were revealed that they were "studying minorities" in secret.

 

Everyone can sit around embarrassed and ignore the elephant in the room but I applaud the NPS for recognizing that there is an issue and trying to figure out why.

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Agree, those NPS studies are not trying to kick out any folks currently using the parks, they want to potentially look at why certain ethnic groups are not using their parks. If they could figure out the reason(s), perhaps they could fix the problem as perhaps some of the reasons could be fixed. A political party would do the same thing, a large national retail chain, etc etc.

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How embarassing for the National Park Service to publish such "theories".

Oh, please. When there's obviously low attendance by non-Caucasians at National Parks, it makes perfect sense that the NPS and others should ask to what extent that's a problem that needs fixing. There's no need for you to be embarrassed by social science.

 

Agreed. They do studies like this here too. It's not as easy as saying just let people find the parks for themselves. Especially when there are children involved, making for more opportunities for minorities to enjoy whatever the community has to offer can be very beneficial.

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Oh, please. When there's obviously low attendance by non-Caucasians at National Parks, it makes perfect sense that the NPS and others should ask to what extent that's a problem that needs fixing. There's no need for you to be embarrassed by social science.

OK, so if I want some of every skin color in my Geocaching group, do I kick out the ones there are too many of? Let's say there are 20, and they're all deemed to be all white people. Do I kick out everyone and start over with new people by shades of skin color? Are 20 shades enough? What if I miss a skin color, or they're hard to get? And what about albinos? I need to get some of every ethnicity of albino, right? I'm thinking the group must include all possible variations at all times. If one is missing, none of us will attend the Event nor go Geocaching. Simple.

 

And the National Parks should line everyone up in their own groups, but dispense them in packs of all different colors.

 

Who said anything about integrating your geo group? Using your example, should Garmin stop selling GPS units to male whites until the female blacks catch up? It's silly arguments like these that always makes this topic go downhill.

 

The topic was, why do so few minorities geocache. It was noted that geocaching was an outdoor activity and that minorities were under represented in other outdoor activities. I can only talk about where I've been, which is camping in dozens of different sites in eight western states. In California and New Mexico I see white and latino families. In Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana, Utah and Nevada, I see white families. The people administering to these facilities should not feel embarrassed to ask the question, "why is that", and then try to seek an answer.

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The people administering to these facilities should not feel embarrassed to ask the question, "why is that", and then try to seek an answer.

Nothing wrong with asking "why", just as long as they don't perceive it as a problem that must be solved. But I guess some of us are a bit gun-shy about government these days when it comes to enforced diversity. And I tend to be what some would call a "liberal".

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Agree, those NPS studies are not trying to kick out any folks currently using the parks, they want to potentially look at why certain ethnic groups are not using their parks. If they could figure out the reason(s), perhaps they could fix the problem as perhaps some of the reasons could be fixed. A political party would do the same thing, a large national retail chain, etc etc.

 

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

 

Why would they waste valuable funds to research why the horse doesn't want to drink and try to figure out how to force him to drink??

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Why would they waste spend valuable funds to research why the horse doesn't want to drink and try to figure out how to force encourage him to drink??

At least two reasons: reach out to an untapped market, and cover themselves against charges of discrimination. I would hope and expect that the former is what motivates the NPS. If there's an ethnicity thing going on then perhaps the NPS, with a simple tweak to how they present their parks, could greatly increase visitor numbers. It makes sense to research the possibilities unless, that is, you've already written-off the non-white segment of society as "not being in to wilderness and stuff".

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Why would they waste valuable funds to research why the horse doesn't want to drink and try to figure out how to force him to drink??

 

Nobody's talking about forcing anyone. If we're going to go there, you could also say it's a waste of time and money creating programs to encourage more girls and women to study science? :unsure: There are plenty of succesful programs out there that have reduced barriers and increased opportunity for certain groups.

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My best friend from the time I was a toddler is black and while he's gone geocaching with me a few times when he's out in California -- and he rather likes it as do his kids -- he said he'd be reluctant to do it where he lives in suburban Denver precisely because of the police profiling thing. He manages a dozen software engineers for a tech company, but if he's poking around a suburban trail or a park looking for small tupperware, he's going to get hassled by the local police, often as not.

 

He's an avid hiker and backpacker, as am I, but this game isn't worth the trouble as he sees it.

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Why do we care about whether or not a certain group of people do not engage in geocaching??

 

A discussion like this only promotes us to make assumptions of why - which often includes stereotyping. Stereotyping is a form of being pre-judgemental.

 

So, instead of making assumptions.... Get out there and introduce the hobby to some new folks (minorities or not). Everything else is better left unknown.

Well said. There was no way this thread was going to last long without cries of racism & discrimination. Then came the claims of racial profiling while caching, black cachers who don't feel safe because they see a lot of pick-up trucks or Confederate flags (which, by the way, is racial profiling of whites), and cachers who say they can't enjoy the game because they're harassed by law enforcement due to their skin color. I'm white, my family & I enjoy camping and it's true, we rarely see blacks or other non-white races camping. I don't know why, I don't care. We enjoy it, that's all that matters. I guess they don't enjoy it, that's their choice. Same goes for Geocaching, you either play or you don't. There's no need to turn it into a racial debate because that never ends well.

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My best friend from the time I was a toddler is black and while he's gone geocaching with me a few times when he's out in California -- and he rather likes it as do his kids -- he said he'd be reluctant to do it where he lives in suburban Denver precisely because of the police profiling thing. He manages a dozen software engineers for a tech company, but if he's poking around a suburban trail or a park looking for small tupperware, he's going to get hassled by the local police, often as not.

 

He's an avid hiker and backpacker, as am I, but this game isn't worth the trouble as he sees it.

 

That's sad to hear. Not sure what could be done for him. :(

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I recently had the opportunity to cache in the mid-west and Canada and pondered why there were so few California cachers in those areas. What-up??

 

Probably for the same reason that I saw so few Missouri cachers when I was in Humboldt recently, but what is it about the original question that leads to this kind of response? Perhaps because I majored in cultural studies back in the day, I found the original question interesting. It is always worth thinking about what kinds of cultural and social assumptions go into certain activities.

 

I have found a few caches with my daughter's boyfriend (African American) who was interested enough -- and he enjoyed stumbling upon a cache when they were hiking in Canada -- but it is not something that either of them would pursue on their own. I have also found caches placed in African American neighborhoods by Asians, but the opposite does not hold true. On an individual level, there are any number of reasons why people like or dislike this particular game. On a broader level, I have no problem acknowledging that the game entails a certain amount of privilege and that there are a number of social factors that would influence participation by various groups of people. Maybe I will ask the boyfriend when I see him again.

 

As I write this, I am also watching the World Grand Prix of darts -- the number of world-class African American players is very small indeed -- and it goes without saying that a sport need not appeal to everyone. But the question also makes me think about what it is that makes me interested in certain aspects of this game. In many ways, I am more interested in exploring abandoned buildings in West Oakland (a non-white area) than finding caches there. And from my experience, it seems that some of the locals feel the same way.

Edited by geodarts
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I recently had the opportunity to cache in the mid-west and Canada and pondered why there were so few California cachers in those areas. What-up??

 

Probably for the same reason that I saw so few Missouri cachers when I was in Humboldt recently, but what is it about the original question that leads to this kind of response? Perhaps because I majored in cultural studies back in the day, I found the original question interesting. It is always worth thinking about what kinds of cultural and social assumptions go into certain activities.

 

I have found a few caches with my daughter's boyfriend (African American) who was interested enough -- and he enjoyed stumbling upon a cache when they were hiking in Canada -- but it is not something that either of them would pursue on their own. I have also found caches placed in African American neighborhoods by Asians, but the opposite does not hold true. On an individual level, there are any number of reasons why people like or dislike this particular game. On a broader level, I have no problem acknowledging that the game entails a certain amount of privilege and that there are a number of social factors that would influence participation by various groups of people. Maybe I will ask the boyfriend when I see him again.

 

As I write this, I am also watching the World Grand Prix of darts -- the number of world-class African American players is very small indeed -- and it goes without saying that a sport need not appeal to everyone. But the question also makes me think about what it is that makes me interested in certain aspects of this game. In many ways, I am more interested in exploring abandoned buildings in West Oakland (a non-white area) than finding caches there. And from my experience, it seems that some of the locals feel the same way.

 

To be sure, the game entails a certain amount of privilege. The social factors are monumental and there is no escaping the past and residual biases. Fear of personal safety would be among the major concerns.

 

A few years back I was on a quest for Northern California County Seats and I went to the Moonbeam Cache in downtown Oakland, Calif. I was the only snowflake to be seen and indeed the apprehension was there.

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As I write this, I am also watching the World Grand Prix of darts -- the number of world-class African American players is very small indeed -- and it goes without saying that a sport need not appeal to everyone.

 

Small, but based upon personal experience, not zero. About 15 years ago I drove up to Syracuse to play in a dart tournament. I got there about the time the final match in a triples event was being played. On one of the teams in the finals was a guy named John Part, who at the time, was the number 1 ranked player in North America. I don't recall the names of the players on the other team but one of them was black, and he threw the final dart to win the match against Parts team. I registered for a blind draw doubles event, found my partner then went to our assigned board for the first match. Guess who was on the other team? The afro-american guy that threw that final dart to win the triples event. We were done after two games.

 

I was thinking earlier that when I found a cache in Tanzania, I was traveling with and out for the day with a non-geocacher, a black woman from Zimbabwe. She asked if it was okay if she signed the log, and she did. Actually, I don't think I saw *any* other white people that day, but the log on that cache before mine was someone named Hugh Grant.

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Nobody's talking about forcing anyone. If we're going to go there, you could also say it's a waste of time and money creating programs to encourage more girls and women to study science? :unsure: There are plenty of succesful programs out there that have reduced barriers and increased opportunity for certain groups.

 

I'm referring to Geocaching / Groundspeak. Why would Groundspeak spend their money to encourage minorities to geocache?? The amount of money they would PUT INTO a program is probably far more than the return on that investment.

 

Geocaching is a game. It's a hobby. Geocaching is not a curriculum in school. It can be used as part of learning science, geography, and what-not. Geocaching does not stand on its own as a curriculum and it is not funded by the government. Geocaching is not regulated by the government either. They may have to 'employ' minorities, but they aren't required to have minority customers.

 

If they're going to spend any money to promote themselves ....do it for EVERYONE. Advertise in various - assumed to be - minority areas....but don't pinpoint minorities. Pointing a finger and pinpointing minorities IS only confirming a prejudice (in yourself and in them).

 

Sorry, hard to explain.... We've all been taught not to be prejudice, but every time the word 'minority' comes up in terms of ethnicity (rather than numerically), it just confirms that prejudice still exists.

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Sorry, hard to explain.... We've all been taught not to be prejudice, but every time the word 'minority' comes up in terms of ethnicity (rather than numerically), it just confirms that prejudice still exists.

Prejudice always has and always will exist in all aspects of life. We display prejudice every time we start to read a post to a thread here by a forum regular... we have a preconception of what will be said simply by looking at who is writing it. Sometimes those preconceptions prove correct, and occasionally TOZ surprises us all with a short post. Prejudice is a tool that helps us process the millions of bits of information that come at us daily. The problem comes from when we use it wrongly to deprive others of their rights.
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Why would they waste valuable funds to research why the horse doesn't want to drink and try to figure out how to force him to drink??

 

Nobody's talking about forcing anyone. If we're going to go there, you could also say it's a waste of time and money creating programs to encourage more girls and women to study science? :unsure: There are plenty of succesful programs out there that have reduced barriers and increased opportunity for certain groups.

 

Okay, I'm game.

The first thing we must do is identify the barriers that are preventing minorities from enjoying geocaching to same level that the majority does. What are the specific barrier that you see that are keeping minorities from geocaching?

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I'm referring to Geocaching / Groundspeak. [...] Geocaching is a game.

Geocaching is also a business. GS probably want their business to grow; so if there's a marketing bias, however innocent, that leaves a potentially large segment of the market untapped then they might want to do something about that.

 

I seem to remember that there aren't many French cachers or caches on gc.com, in stark contrast to the take-up in Germany. Would it offend you less if gc.com took steps to entice more French players into the game?

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Sorry, hard to explain.... We've all been taught not to be prejudice, but every time the word 'minority' comes up in terms of ethnicity (rather than numerically), it just confirms that prejudice still exists.

 

Being aware of cultural differences is NOT the same as being prejudiced. I live in a multicultural home environment. We live near a university so we get tenants from all sorts of countries. I'd be blind if I didn't notice cultural differences. Minority is not a dirty word, it's a statement of fact. My husband is Chinese. He is a minority here, but obviously if we went to China, I would be the minority. It is perfectly fine for people to discuss cultural differences. Nobody is saying "all ..... are .....".

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Geocaching is also a business. GS probably want their business to grow; so if there's a marketing bias, however innocent, that leaves a potentially large segment of the market untapped then they might want to do something about that.

 

I seem to remember that there aren't many French cachers or caches on gc.com, in stark contrast to the take-up in Germany. Would it offend you less if gc.com took steps to entice more French players into the game?

 

Sure, it's a business. A business who would use 'target marketing' for gain. Their target market is probably anyone who likes the outdoors and those who already own some sort of GPS technology or knowledge of a compass/bearing/etc. You can't play the game without that....

 

Groundspeak will never target the general public (or whatever general minority group you want to target) because that would be like advertising and/or hinting that people go buy GPS units and phones so they can play. Groundspeak is against advertising for other businesses.

 

Entice whoever you want.....but as a business, they will advertise where the investment return far exceeds the money they spend regardless of who you target.

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I'm referring to Geocaching / Groundspeak. Why would Groundspeak spend their money to encourage minorities to geocache?? The amount of money they would PUT INTO a program is probably far more than the return on that investment.

 

I'm not saying Groundspeak should start such a program. But if they did I can't imagine it would be the same as a government program.

 

It would great if we would, as a community, feel comfortable discussing these issues. There are alot of things we can personally do to welcome more minorities to join/enjoy this wonderful hobby of ours. For instance, if we know someone who is worried about being hassled by the police while caching due to his race, how about offering to go caching with him? And if we know minorities who cache, but don't attend events, how about encouraging them to come out and making an effort to make them feel welcome?

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It would great if we would, as a community, feel comfortable discussing these issues. There are alot of things we can personally do to welcome more minorities to join/enjoy this wonderful hobby of ours. For instance, if we know someone who is worried about being hassled by the police while caching due to his race, how about offering to go caching with him? And if we know minorities who cache, but don't attend events, how about encouraging them to come out and making an effort to make them feel welcome?

 

But why would you assume that only a minority would feel unsafe? Doesn't everyone have moments of feeling unsafe?? If you take a stranger caching with you - wouldn't you feel a bit 'unsafe' yourself? Minority or not... I personally, wouldn't go caching with a stranger if I was alone.

 

Aren't all new folks a bit timid about going to events?

 

Imagine yourself being one of those minorities (that you refer to) and seeing "Hobby of Ours" (as stated above) - How would that make you feel? In fact....if you read this entire thread - how would you feel? You'd probably be disgusted and not want to get involved at all.

 

Everyone has positive intentions, but sometimes....it might not always be seen as positive from the other cheek.

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I never said that "only minorities would feel unsafe". I am specifically talking about the black cacher who was said to not cache as much as he'd like to because he felt he'd get hassled by the police due to his race. Wouldn't it be great it those around him would be sensitive to this issue and help him out? In the same spirit, if I knew a woman who felt unsafe caching alone due to her gender, I would be happy to go with her.

 

As for events, I'm specifically thinking of my husband here, feeling self-conscious about being the only chinese person in attendance at an event. If I knew a Chinese cacher who never came to events due to similar feelings, I would be sure to make an extra effort to invite them to events and make them feel welcome. In the same spirit, if I knew someone who was nervous about going to an event due to their age (for example, a teen) I'd be just as encouraging.

 

I could let my husband read this thread and see if he found anything offensive in it, I doubt it. I have friends and tenants of many different races and they freely talk about their differences. I don't see anything wrong with it. Denying these differences is kind of like saying women and men are all the same.

 

Maybe this is getting too personal, but I'd be interested to hear about your personal experiences that have made you feel the way you do.

 

p.s. When I said 'hobby of ours', this was meant in the most neutral sense, to include those participating in the thread. If you take something totally neutral and take it as a negative, this shows some sort of underlying bias. Like I said, I would be happy to hear about your experiences.

Edited by The_Incredibles_
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Okay all you have to understand is most blacks have grown up in the big cities. The closest some have come to mother nature is Central park in NY. I lived in Alaska for a while and when military people come there that are from huge cites almost die. They have never seen that much open land. Especially if one sees a Moose they are terrified that it migth eat them beause they look like a tree in uniform. Come one the biggest animal they have seen is the sewer rats beating up the cats for food. Most of my black friends would rather sit inside play video games, watch movies, or play on the computer. So really look at how people have been raised and yo can tell what they like doing. Oh BTW I know whites you wouldn't catch them dead in the woods.

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I never said that "only minorities would feel unsafe". I am specifically talking about the black cacher who was said to not cache as much as he'd like to because he felt he'd get hassled by the police due to his race. Wouldn't it be great it those around him would be sensitive to this issue and help him out? In the same spirit, if I knew a woman who felt unsafe caching alone due to her gender, I would be happy to go with her.

 

Maybe this is getting too personal, but I'd be interested to hear about your personal experiences that have made you feel the way you do.

 

p.s. When I said 'hobby of ours', this was meant in the most neutral sense, to include those participating in the thread. If you take something totally neutral and take it as a negative, this shows some sort of underlying bias. Like I said, I would be happy to hear about your experiences.

 

I've had a lifetime of being friends with many people and even hanging out in places where I was the only woman and/or white person there. What does that prove? Nothing.....I was one person in a room full of people - never gave it a second thought. I've been on Diversity councils where I work that tried to push 'inclusion'. I see people. I don't see minorties. I see each person as an individual. I see the college educated black person the same way as I see a homeless white woman on the streets. Each individual has their own history, their own story, their own feelings, their own backgrounds, their own personalities..... You just can't judge anyone by using an assumption from many.

 

I've seen way too many people (majorities & minorities) ride the 'easy bus' (take advantage of the system) and willingly admit they did it on purpose. I've worked with people (majorities & minorities) who busted their butts working at fast food restaurants just to keep the lights on, but never got a dime from the system because they were too proud to do so. I see people I work with - whom can't fully perform their new job duties because they don't have the 'mechanical thinking' it takes .....Yet, they consistently blame their peers and deny their lack in performance. I've also seen a lot of individuals who are 'down in the dumps' and all they needed was a little encouragement and they explode with enthusiasm and motivation. I could go on & on....

 

We're all people. Individuals......... with eyes, ears, 2 arms, 2 legs, a brain.....

Edited by Lieblweb
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So, Lieblweb has a phobia of labels. Any attempt to categorise society is disadvantageous to minorities. The very word, "minority", is perjorative. It's all just a system to keep the privileged few at the top of the pile:

 

  • 200px-1984_Social_Classes_alt.svg.png

And, yes, we are watching you :ph34r:

 

Look, Lieblweb, I'm sorry but this "we're all people" stuff is daft when you refuse to acknowledge or discuss cultural differences. To get back to the OP's question, it's a fact that there's an ethnicity bias against minority participation in geocaching, and a few possible causes (again, in answer to the OP's question) have been discussed, ever so briefly, here. Posting, in effect, "don't talk about this stuff!" is counter-productive. Claiming that earlier discussion would have "disgusted" minority readers was ridiculous.

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So, Lieblweb has a phobia of labels. Any attempt to categorise society is disadvantageous to minorities. The very word, "minority", is perjorative. It's all just a system to keep the privileged few at the top of the pile:

 

  • 200px-1984_Social_Classes_alt.svg.png

And, yes, we are watching you :ph34r:

 

Look, Lieblweb, I'm sorry but this "we're all people" stuff is daft when you refuse to acknowledge or discuss cultural differences. To get back to the OP's question, it's a fact that there's an ethnicity bias against minority participation in geocaching, and a few possible causes (again, in answer to the OP's question) have been discussed, ever so briefly, here. Posting, in effect, "don't talk about this stuff!" is counter-productive. Claiming that earlier discussion would have "disgusted" minority readers was ridiculous.

 

I'll tell you why there are no black geocachers in my neighborhood. 1. There are very few blacks to start with. I'm certain that if you crunched the numbers you would find that statistically, there shouldn't be that many. 2. If two of my friends and I are searching around the bushes behind the bank at night and a patrol car pulls up, the cop is probably going to use his spotlight to help us find the cache. Replace us with three black guys and they are face down on the ground until backup arrives. Now, if that offends anyone, well, it should.

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Look, Lieblweb, I'm sorry but this "we're all people" stuff is daft when you refuse to acknowledge or discuss cultural differences.

 

So, the lack of minority participation is related to 'Cultural Differences'?

 

Then why must we force feed (so to speak) our culture onto them?

 

If they enjoy the outdoors...they will come.

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So, the lack of minority participation is related to 'Cultural Differences'?

 

Then why must we force feed (so to speak) our culture onto them?

 

I agree.

 

I've (unscientifically) noticed a phenomenon in suburban America were some people are continuously pressure their neighbors to live and look and be like them. This is particularly strong in neighborhoods that have home owners associations. Diversity isn't celebrated there. In fact it's quite the opposite. If you don't or can't conform you are pressured both mentally and financially to move somewhere else.

 

If a particular race is under represented in a hobby then so be it. There is no reason to pressure someone to be like us if they don't want to be.

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Sorry, hard to explain.... We've all been taught not to be prejudice, but every time the word 'minority' comes up in terms of ethnicity (rather than numerically), it just confirms that prejudice still exists.

Prejudice always has and always will exist in all aspects of life. We display prejudice every time we start to read a post to a thread here by a forum regular... we have a preconception of what will be said simply by looking at who is writing it. Sometimes those preconceptions prove correct, and occasionally TOZ surprises us all with a short post. Prejudice is a tool that helps us process the millions of bits of information that come at us daily. The problem comes from when we use it wrongly to deprive others of their rights.

 

Actually, if you act on it, it's no longer prejudice and something totally different (worse).

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Diversity isn't celebrated there.

 

Your use of this phrase bothers me. While I buy into the idea of equal opportunity, I do not feel like I need to be obligated to "celebrate" diversity. Nor do I feel the need protest it either. It's just there. Diversity is a fact. Everybody should really just get on with their lives and be productive members of society.

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Just my take on this topic ...

 

One half of our team is a minority - Navajo Indian. He looks quite ethnic too. I do not recall any time when Mike or I felt it would not be good to go caching based on his race. We have had many law enforcement encounters, including one with 10 border patrol agents. We were not harrassed. They have all turned out pleasantly. Not once did we feel it was due to either his race or mine. We have been welcomed and treated well at every event cache we have gone to.

 

Mike grew up doing outdoors activities. So did I. We enjoy caching because it is an outdoor activity we can enjoy doing together. That goes beyond any racial barrier.

Edited by Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking
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This is something I have been keenly aware of since I started caching. I have been to many Mega events and even then, there are very few minorities present. It could be a socio-economic thing- however as a member of the minority, I don't think it to be true. Many people have smartphones, they may have DL's the apps, but either the game didn't take root or they may have had issues with muggles or felt out of place at geo-events. People at the events tend to stick with their cliques; I don't begrudge them, its human nature to stick with the herd but its hard breaking into Geocaching events, when 90% are 40+, predominantly male or retired couples and their friends are present and not really open to newbies.

I tend to stick out like a sore thumb. So, I stay away from events, unless there is someone there I will have already known.

So, I cache alone, probably like other minority cachers.

BTW, this is not a "woe is me" post, I like caching by myself or with a friend.

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I can toss out at least one answer based on having one of those few minority cachers as my hubby. Having been pulled over in the past for things as simple as DWB ( Driving While Black ) and actually having a local sheriff follow him home down our rural road because he was suspiciously out of place ( a neighbor heard that radio call over their scanner )... He's a little bit leery about lurking around in odd locations that raise the suspicions of the locals. There are unfortunately those that make some automatic assumptions about somebody based solely on the color of their skin here in rural Ohio. It doesn't stop him from caching obviously, but he is more cautious about where he goes after a cache - especially if he's solo and not with a group.

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I don't think geocaching is racist. There's also been a few questionable comments, we had a cache in South Carolina that was "in a dangerous neighborhood" in the description, which is codeword for black neighborhood.

 

But I think most it is just overall racist perceptions.. Think about it, cache get placed in upper middle class white neighborhood, black man shows up, and immediately the calls start coming to the cops about a "suspicious man" in the neighborhood.

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