Jump to content

GSAK


Recommended Posts

http://geocass.wordpress.com/2012/02/01/gsak-8-new-features-tutorial/

 

A program GSAK that among other things allows you to gather a number of cashes and write a repetitive log such as "Nice Hide" or "TFTC" and publish all at once with the same response. As a CO of 41 caches I think this is a disgusting way to play the game. The CO gets virtually zero feedback either good or bad about the caches. It destroys the spirit of the game.

 

Comments?

Link to comment

I HEAR YOU MAGNUS!

 

Unfortunately, this is what it has come to in some areas.

Pointless 'same as the last one' caches that really don't deserve more than a 'TFTC' log.

And now that people may not really know how to write a nice log to reward the hider, even really nice caches are getting these.

 

I try not to let it bother me too much, and manage to find comfort in the occasional well-written logs I do receive.

Link to comment

http://geocass.wordpress.com/2012/02/01/gsak-8-new-features-tutorial/

 

A program GSAK that among other things allows you to gather a number of cashes and write a repetitive log such as "Nice Hide" or "TFTC" and publish all at once with the same response. As a CO of 41 caches I think this is a disgusting way to play the game. The CO gets virtually zero feedback either good or bad about the caches. It destroys the spirit of the game.

 

Comments?

Well at least that is better than a ; or a . I some time get. GSAK is not the only program that allows that. There are others, and smartphones.

Edited by jholly
Link to comment

My main concern is that cache owners who place unique caches will get tired of content-free cloned logs, and will stop placing unique caches, or will even start archiving the unique caches that they've already placed. That would be a shame.

 

So I try to write better logs, and I award Favorites points to the exceptional caches.

Link to comment

http://geocass.wordpress.com/2012/02/01/gsak-8-new-features-tutorial/

 

A program GSAK that among other things allows you to gather a number of cashes and write a repetitive log such as "Nice Hide" or "TFTC" and publish all at once with the same response. As a CO of 41 caches I think this is a disgusting way to play the game. The CO gets virtually zero feedback either good or bad about the caches. It destroys the spirit of the game.

 

Comments?

Well at least that is better than a ; or a . I some time get. GSAK is not the only program that allows that. There are others, and smartphones.

 

Why?

Link to comment

I use GSAK to publish my logs , and I usually write a generic log that covers the day's experience. If there is something unique about a particular cache i will make a note of it and mention it in my log. GSAK allows that as well. Its a tool like any other. I don't think its disgusing at all.

Link to comment

I only do that on the crap 35 mm film canisters or whatever someone places on the crappy stop signs or guardrail caches. If a person has put in at least a little more effort I always tell a bit of a story. I have gotten several of those dreaded TFTC logs on my plants but I just appreciate that the person took the time to look for it.

 

Here's a suggestion to those really bothered by it....DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!!! Maybe you could hold an event, maybe Geocaching 101 or something else that would be more catchy and have it at either a restaurant or some type of quiet classroom setting and gently explain that people who take time to place caches like to have stories associated with the find logs. Perhaps they aren't just taking the 'easy & lazy' route...perhaps that's all they 'think' they're supposed to do (and really...is there a RULE saying they have to leave a lengthy story anyways?). Gently convey your passion to those attending that cache owners REALLY LOVE IT when they get some type of adventure type story associated with a find log. I know I really enjoy reading some crazy things that people have written. Take action, griping about it on a forum isn't going to change the people around you (probably those people aren't even active on here anyways). Have an event and give out some containers as door prizes or some other cool items to get more people to attend....then let em have it! HA!

Link to comment

I use GSAK to publish my logs , and I usually write a generic log that covers the day's experience. If there is something unique about a particular cache i will make a note of it and mention it in my log. GSAK allows that as well. Its a tool like any other. I don't think its disgusing at all.

 

How many hides do you own?

Link to comment

I use GSAK but I've never used it to log a single cache. It's an amazing program.

 

I'm pretty sure five-letters-or-less logs are the result of field logging with smartphones, not GSAK or any other program or site that allows mass logging.

 

But quite frankly, as long as have power trails we need mass logging ability. (I say this as someone who has no desire to do ET Highway or Route 66 or their ilk.)

Link to comment

I use GSAK to publish my logs , and I usually write a generic log that covers the day's experience. If there is something unique about a particular cache i will make a note of it and mention it in my log. GSAK allows that as well. Its a tool like any other. I don't think its disgusing at all.

 

That is exactly what I do. There are actually few caches that warrant anything other than a generic log. My logs are not that short but describe the whole day. Personally I think GSAK provides a invaluable service.

Link to comment

You want better logs.... hide better caches. Have TPTB require computer logging, no logs from smart phones.

 

TFTC tells me my cache is alive and well and I'm not so wrapped up in myself that I need to be constantly told I have good caches.

 

Then you may not spend the time, expense and effort that I do to make sure that one has an enjoyable caching experience and not a grab and run.

 

Here is a quotes from a couple of mine. If that doesn't make you feel better than a TFTC, then that is your prerogative, but not mine.

 

"Log Date: 10/1/2012

Picking up a few caches heading north. Nothing to leave at the moment but still nice that there are some containers out here big enough for trade items for the family cachers."

 

"If you follow the descriptions, some of Cowboy's hides just open up. We got to GZ, then had to search just a bit to find this very well done cache. The cover is exceptional. Needs a favorite for sure. Appreciate this one!!"

 

"Second FTF this evening. YIPEE!!! as Cowboy would say. Nice hide ... our son has one just like it down in Arizona. (A little harder after the sun goes down.) Thanks for adding to our caching day fun. XNSL"

 

I like feedback good and bad as I had one that was damp so I went out to switch to an ammo box. My pleasure is not to hide them for the TFTC crowd but for those who post like those above.

Link to comment

http://geocass.wordpress.com/2012/02/01/gsak-8-new-features-tutorial/

 

A program GSAK that among other things allows you to gather a number of cashes and write a repetitive log such as "Nice Hide" or "TFTC" and publish all at once with the same response. As a CO of 41 caches I think this is a disgusting way to play the game. The CO gets virtually zero feedback either good or bad about the caches. It destroys the spirit of the game.

 

Comments?

 

TFTC or . Chips my concrete as well. Seems to be related to smartphone use as well.

 

 

My kid logged some of mine that way >>> we had a chat about it. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Link to comment

I agree we ought to have programs like GSAK banned. Who cares about all the useful features it may provide to make geocaching more enjoyable for some people. If it a allows cut and paste logs to used for automating the logging of cache cache so that Magnus McPhee doesn't get the kind of feedback his caches deserve then we need to get rid of the this capability. :unsure:

 

Blaming the tool seems a little far fetched. Yes it does provide ways to automate logging that seem oriented to the numbers cachers who just want to tick off the caches they found and not spend time individualizing logs. However these cachers aren't likely to say much anyhow. "Cut-and-paste" logs have always been an option for these individuals.

 

As a cache owner, I understand the enjoyment of getting a individualized log. I especially like it if the finder has a great story to tell about their hunt for my cache. But I don't expect everyone to be an author. And certainly as cache densities go up and my caches may be just one or two of the dozens of caches a person found that day, I can understand the difficulty remembering every hide or having to post something unique in every log. Instead of feeling entitled to a long log, I view the long logs as a bonus, and accept that not everyone is interested in spending time writing logs. I'm actually happy that these people now have the ability to use programs like GSAK so that my caches will now be logged more promptly.

Link to comment

http://geocass.wordpress.com/2012/02/01/gsak-8-new-features-tutorial/

 

A program GSAK that among other things allows you to gather a number of cashes and write a repetitive log such as "Nice Hide" or "TFTC" and publish all at once with the same response. As a CO of 41 caches I think this is a disgusting way to play the game. The CO gets virtually zero feedback either good or bad about the caches. It destroys the spirit of the game.

 

Comments?

Well at least that is better than a ; or a . I some time get. GSAK is not the only program that allows that. There are others, and smartphones.

Well for a start a TFTC requires the effort of three more keystokes.

 

Why?

Link to comment

I just discovered that c:geo allows me to log my find in the field from my smart phone. I like having that ability as it saves a lot of time and hassle and missed finds. However, I do take the time to let the CO know about his/her cache and my experience. If it is too long of a note I will write what I can and then add "more to follow." Occasionally I have written the TFTC followed by a blank page but that is only when I have nothing else to say. More often than not I am writing TFTC followed by a note about the cache and/or my experience - from my smartphone. :)

Link to comment

I've been using GSAK for over 2900 days so far. Repetitive, cut 'n paste logs have been around longer than that. The ability of GSAK to speed up the logging process is one of the great things about the program (especially back when I had dial-up internet). I use the new template functions for trips, where I can put in some boiler-plate text about the trip (find count and such) into the log - but each one has a longer section that is unquie to that log.

 

My wife will be using the template functions to get her logging up to date (she's something like 1500 behind). Most will be straight "Found with The Jester" but she'll add more for special caches.

 

Any tool can be abused (as has been said before in this thread), but you can't blame the tool for that. It just makes lazy cachers faster at being lazy cachers.

Link to comment

I use GSAK to publish my logs , and I usually write a generic log that covers the day's experience. If there is something unique about a particular cache i will make a note of it and mention it in my log. GSAK allows that as well. Its a tool like any other. I don't think its disgusing at all.

 

That is exactly what I do. There are actually few caches that warrant anything other than a generic log. My logs are not that short but describe the whole day. Personally I think GSAK provides a invaluable service.

 

Please don't seek any of my caches. I find cut-and-paste logs insulting and rude.

 

Perhaps you may want to consider that if, as you say, "There are actually few caches that warrant anything other than a generic log," you may be searching the wrong caches.

Link to comment

I use GSAK to publish my logs , and I usually write a generic log that covers the day's experience. If there is something unique about a particular cache i will make a note of it and mention it in my log. GSAK allows that as well. Its a tool like any other. I don't think its disgusing at all.

 

How many hides do you own?

 

ras_oscar,

 

DON'T ANSWER THAT QUESTION it's a set up, don't fall into his trap

Edited by Scubasonic
Link to comment

http://geocass.wordpress.com/2012/02/01/gsak-8-new-features-tutorial/

 

A program GSAK that among other things allows you to gather a number of cashes and write a repetitive log such as "Nice Hide" or "TFTC" and publish all at once with the same response. As a CO of 41 caches I think this is a disgusting way to play the game. The CO gets virtually zero feedback either good or bad about the caches. It destroys the spirit of the game.

 

Comments?

Well at least that is better than a ; or a . I some time get. GSAK is not the only program that allows that. There are others, and smartphones.

Well for a start a TFTC requires the effort of three more keystokes.

 

Why?

 

3 more keystrokes does not a good log make. ; or . or TFTC doesn't tell me much as a future finder or much as the hider. At least "Nice Hide" says a little about the cache. But if I see "Nice Hide" as the same exact log on all my caches by that finder, then that doesn't say much either. The same, btw, goes for a more lengthy # of ## log which is identical to every other log except for the number. It may look better on the surface, but it's no better than TFTC or . or ;. It just tells me someone robo logged all my caches.

 

On the flip side, I've moved past the lack of decent logs. I just don't hide caches any longer so it doesn't bother me as much anymore.

Link to comment

The problem persisted long before GSAK had the option to allow logging. I have used that function of GSAK but only when logging a powertrail. When a CO owns 100+ caches in a row that are exactly .1 apart then I see no need for a unique log. But it also allowed me to write unique logs for the others that we did that day (if I had to do each one manually that day the few unique cool ones I did may have gotten shorter logs due to exhaustion).

 

Don't blame the tool, blame the user. Some people will never log more than TFTC unless they are told that we owners like to hear about their experience. And some will just log a TFTC because they like logging from their phone and don't care to give feedback.

 

BTW I took a peek at a few of your caches and see some copy and paste logs, but I also see more good logs than bad. As a CO focus on the good and ignore the people who always log TFTC

Link to comment
But I don't expect everyone to be an author.

(quote author's name removed, 'cause it doesn't really matter here)

 

Why do these threads always end up with somebody saying something with that sort of hyperbole? Nobody is asking for War & Peace. You don't need to be an author to go a little further and post a courteous log.

Link to comment

I use GSAK to publish my logs , and I usually write a generic log that covers the day's experience. If there is something unique about a particular cache i will make a note of it and mention it in my log. GSAK allows that as well. Its a tool like any other. I don't think its disgusing at all.

 

How many hides do you own?

 

ras_oscar,

 

DON'T ANSWER THAT QUESTION it's a set up, don't fall into his trap

Its not a trap. If somebody is going to make the statement that they don't find this sort of logging practice "disgusting", then they should at least have walked a mile in the shoes of a geocache owner.

Link to comment

I agree, GSAK is just a tool.

 

Being able to compose all your logs in one application without having to load every single cache page, and then publish all the logs with one press of a button is useful. The fact that you can log any TB's and geocoins too whilst creating your cache logs is also really useful.

 

TFTC logs also come from smartphones and iPads, so don't blame GSAK for that.

Link to comment

It seems to me that the hiders should remember that without the finders they wouldn't have any logs at all. They should be grateful that we take time out of our busy day to look for them and write anything.

 

It seems to me that finders should remember that without the hiders they wouldn't have any caches at all. They should be grateful that we take time out of our busy day to hide them.

Link to comment

It seems to me that the hiders should remember that without the finders they wouldn't have any logs at all. They should be grateful that we take time out of our busy day to look for them and write anything.

 

It seems to me that finders should remember that without the hiders they wouldn't have any caches at all. They should be grateful that we take time out of our busy day to hide them.

 

That is exactly right it is a symbiotic relationship so both sides should stop whining and enjoy what they have.

Edited by Walts Hunting
Link to comment

It seems to me that the hiders should remember that without the finders they wouldn't have any logs at all. They should be grateful that we take time out of our busy day to look for them and write anything.

 

It seems to me that finders should remember that without the hiders they wouldn't have any caches at all. They should be grateful that we take time out of our busy day to hide them.

 

That is exactly right it is a symbiotic relationship so both sides should stop whining and enjoy what they have.

 

I suppose that there are some cache owners that place caches simply to provide an opportunity for others to increase their find count. There are other cache owners that places caches in a manner that hopefully produces an interesting or unique experience. If those caches owner mostly get meaningless cut-n-paste or terse logs posted to their finds, eventually they're going to stop placing interesting and unique caches because they're *not* enjoying what the have.

Link to comment

Yes, folks will write TFTC or nothing with or without GSAK or other tools, they will just take less time. If folks really want to do these lame (in my opinion) mega power trails, they will try to find a program that makes the logging easier out there, if not someone else will invent one. Without one, they will just go into each cache and write TFTC one by one and the CO will just get the emails a little more spread out in their box, but it will be the same result nonetheless. As others said, don't blame GSAK. By the way, its not just the mega power trails that caused these programs to be made but in the days when there were no power trails, I doubt there was too much of a need to find an online program to log 100-2000 caches with one button and say the same thing on all of them.

 

I have seen some of the coolest caches get TFTC logs. Some folks just do not want to participate in writing nice logs. I have cached with folks who absolutely had a great time, took many nice pictures and had a unique experience. However, they get home and just say a word one log. Thus, even the cool caches will get TFTCs and what can one do but roll their eyes and move on.

Edited by lamoracke
Link to comment

Please don't seek any of my caches. I find cut-and-paste logs insulting and rude.

Yeah, they're bad enough for the owner, but in addition, seekers get to read the same tale over and over when they follow in the cut-and-paster's footsteps. If someone's intent on cut-and-pasting, personally I think I'd prefer they cut and paste "TFTC" instead of repeating the same long story of their day in log after log.

Link to comment

Please don't seek any of my caches. I find cut-and-paste logs insulting and rude.

Yeah, they're bad enough for the owner, but in addition, seekers get to read the same tale over and over when they follow in the cut-and-paster's footsteps. If someone's intent on cut-and-pasting, personally I think I'd prefer they cut and paste "TFTC" instead of repeating the same long story of their day in log after log.

 

my "favorite" is when I have a copy and paste log on one of my puzzles (say the PEACE series)...and they say great cache and great puzzle in the log, but they say that to all their finds on the day. Thus, a praise that is copied and pasted and put in every cache loses its praise and becomes just a platitude.

Edited by lamoracke
Link to comment

It seems to me that the hiders should remember that without the finders they wouldn't have any logs at all. They should be grateful that we take time out of our busy day to look for them and write anything.

 

It seems to me that finders should remember that without the hiders they wouldn't have any caches at all. They should be grateful that we take time out of our busy day to hide them.

 

That is exactly right it is a symbiotic relationship so both sides should stop whining and enjoy what they have.

 

The whole enterprise is symbiotic. No land, no hiders. No hiders, no finders. No finders, no hiders. No hiders, no need for land owners. Circle of Caching

 

Break the chain anywhere along the way and things go south quickly.

 

Frankly, I don't care anymore. I archived my hides and don't plan on putting anymore out. I don't really like having to go dump water out of my ammo cans because someone disrespected the hide by opening them in pouring rain without making any attempt to cover the cache.

 

I don't really like getting # of ## logs. I don't really like getting TFTC or . or blank logs.

 

I don't really like putting quality swag in my caches only to have them emptied within the first few finds.

 

BUT, I have options of which I availed myself.

 

So I really don't care what you or anyone else chooses to put in their logs.

 

I will continue to write decent logs to show my appreciation. Maybe there are enough of us left to make it worthwhile for others to keep caches out. If not, then we'll probably be stuck with nothing but micros and nanos. If so, then I guess it will weed out the folks that don't enjoy mediocre hides and perhaps the forums will become silent.

 

Either way, I guess the game will evolve the way it evolves. If we don't like it, we have the option of not playing. And there is nothing wrong with that either.

 

There are plenty of other games to play.

Link to comment

GSAK is a very powerful tool. Yes, one of the abilities may be to mass log caches, with or without additional customization. (I actually have never used that feature, I don't find that many caches in a day). But moreover, it allows database management of all the caches you are interested in, searching and filtering by any set of criteria (such as difficulty and terrain, recently found, etc), generation of interesting statistics, loading into your favorite GPS, management of FTF (if interested), and many more features.

 

How someone uses a tool does not make the tool itself bad.

Link to comment

I use this feature all the time, any time I have more than a couple caches to log.

 

Load up the found caches from my GPSr, enter in a base logging message, add additional comments to any that were particularly memorable and then log them in one shot. Faster, easier and my GSAK database is updated with my new finds.

 

I think your assumption that the tool making it easier is responsible for lazy logging.

 

It's just as easy to import your field notes into GC.com and copy and paste 'tftc' into each log message as it is to use gsak.

 

In fact, the overhead of installing and configuring and understanding how to use gsak would probably be more work for those lazy loggers to do.

Link to comment

It seems to me that the hiders should remember that without the finders they wouldn't have any logs at all. They should be grateful that we take time out of our busy day to look for them and write anything.

 

It seems to me that finders should remember that without the hiders they wouldn't have any caches at all. They should be grateful that we take time out of our busy day to hide them.

 

That is exactly right it is a symbiotic relationship so both sides should stop whining and enjoy what they have.

 

The whole enterprise is symbiotic. No land, no hiders. No hiders, no finders. No finders, no hiders. No hiders, no need for land owners. Circle of Caching

 

Break the chain anywhere along the way and things go south quickly.

 

Frankly, I don't care anymore. I archived my hides and don't plan on putting anymore out. I don't really like having to go dump water out of my ammo cans because someone disrespected the hide by opening them in pouring rain without making any attempt to cover the cache.

 

I don't really like getting # of ## logs. I don't really like getting TFTC or . or blank logs.

 

I don't really like putting quality swag in my caches only to have them emptied within the first few finds.

 

BUT, I have options of which I availed myself.

 

So I really don't care what you or anyone else chooses to put in their logs.

 

I will continue to write decent logs to show my appreciation. Maybe there are enough of us left to make it worthwhile for others to keep caches out. If not, then we'll probably be stuck with nothing but micros and nanos. If so, then I guess it will weed out the folks that don't enjoy mediocre hides and perhaps the forums will become silent.

 

Either way, I guess the game will evolve the way it evolves. If we don't like it, we have the option of not playing. And there is nothing wrong with that either.

 

There are plenty of other games to play.

Great...just great...now I got the Lion King Theme running through my head...

Link to comment

http://geocass.wordpress.com/2012/02/01/gsak-8-new-features-tutorial/

 

A program GSAK that among other things allows you to gather a number of cashes and write a repetitive log such as "Nice Hide" or "TFTC" and publish all at once with the same response. As a CO of 41 caches I think this is a disgusting way to play the game. The CO gets virtually zero feedback either good or bad about the caches. It destroys the spirit of the game.

 

Comments?

GSAK is a great took with great power...but with that power comes great responsibility!!!

 

(yep...someone had to say it)

 

I don't use all the tools...the but the one's I do use I greatly appreciate.

Link to comment

One other thing to think on: GSAK uses the GC.com API to do that one button logging. So who really is responsible? GSAK for using the tools available to it or GC.com for making the tools that allow power logging? It's just a chain of tools - starting with the one in the chair.

 

Maybe it all started with GC.com giving us the option to write domments instead of just marking the cache as found...

Link to comment

It seems to me that the hiders should remember that without the finders they wouldn't have any logs at all. They should be grateful that we take time out of our busy day to look for them and write anything.

 

It seems to me that finders should remember that without the hiders they wouldn't have any caches at all. They should be grateful that we take time out of our busy day to hide them.

 

That is exactly right it is a symbiotic relationship so both sides should stop whining and enjoy what they have.

 

The whole enterprise is symbiotic. No land, no hiders. No hiders, no finders. No finders, no hiders. No hiders, no need for land owners. Circle of Caching

 

Break the chain anywhere along the way and things go south quickly.

 

Frankly, I don't care anymore. I archived my hides and don't plan on putting anymore out. I don't really like having to go dump water out of my ammo cans because someone disrespected the hide by opening them in pouring rain without making any attempt to cover the cache.

 

I don't really like getting # of ## logs. I don't really like getting TFTC or . or blank logs.

 

I don't really like putting quality swag in my caches only to have them emptied within the first few finds.

 

BUT, I have options of which I availed myself.

 

So I really don't care what you or anyone else chooses to put in their logs.

 

I will continue to write decent logs to show my appreciation. Maybe there are enough of us left to make it worthwhile for others to keep caches out. If not, then we'll probably be stuck with nothing but micros and nanos. If so, then I guess it will weed out the folks that don't enjoy mediocre hides and perhaps the forums will become silent.

 

Either way, I guess the game will evolve the way it evolves. If we don't like it, we have the option of not playing. And there is nothing wrong with that either.

 

There are plenty of other games to play.

 

Very well put!

Link to comment

Wow.....I didn't realize Ver 8 had such capability.....kind of gave me a headache reading through it.

The cut-paste feature would be great for doing entire or sections of a power trail where cut-paste logs are expected.

On all other caches we always include a generic section re our travels and add a comment to each individual cache.

Uploading field notes lets you log in a hurry but you still have to cut-paste one at a time....to be able to do 50 or 60 from a trail at once is hard to beat.

Link to comment

 

I archived my hides and don't plan on putting anymore out.

 

 

Huh??? Your profile shows about 70+ active caches!

 

 

I archived my hides and don't plan on putting anymore out.

 

 

Huh??? Your profile shows about 70+ active caches!

I smell sarcasm in his quote. <_<

The embedded quotes got away from you guys...take a look again at who posted...

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...