Newbie with Questions

[JenniferS1]

Hi there everyone,

 

Very new to all this and LOVING it!!!

 

Found a few caches and logged them...

 

I just have a few questions-

 

I bought a trackable it has not arrived yet, but when it does can I log it and then plant in any cache?

 

If I go abroad, can I find caches there and log as usual?

 

I am using the GEO Bucket app on my phone. As far as I can tell, there is no way to hide caches there so I downloaded a number of apps to track my location- are these good enough to use coordinates to hide a cache with?

 

Looking forward to your responses and any hints and tips are welcome 

[CraftyKel*]

Hi Mate,

 

Welcome, glad to hear you're enjoying it

 

When your trackable arrives, you'll activate it on the website and setup any 'mission' you want for it or just info about your bug and then yes, you send it out into the world

 

Abroad, yup you can cache anywhere in the world.

 

As for placing caches, it is advised you find perhaps 20-40 caches (or more) before you think about placing your own so that you get a better of idea of hiding places, containers, etc. Some will tell you your phone isn't good enough, but it depends on your phone. Some phones these days are as good as a 'proper' GPS. What kind of accuracy reading do you get when navigating with it? There are also several techniques (such as averaging) that can help with this as well, have a good read up around the site and forums, there's LOTS of info around

 

Russ

[JenniferS1]

Thanks for your reply... when no 3G and only WiFi, I am getting 66ft and similar accuracies.... not ideal I know... literally just downloaded too so will experiment later with the accuracies in the big wide world...

 

I am just itching to get more involved in all this

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Thanks for your reply... when no 3G and only WiFi, I am getting 66ft and similar accuracies.... not ideal I know... literally just downloaded too so will experiment later with the accuracies in the big wide world...

 

I am just itching to get more involved in all this

Just so you know.... 3G and/or wifi have nothing whatsoever to do regarding your (perceived) accuracies. 3G and wifi have to do with phone/internet usage. GPS signals (actually radio signals) are received from satellites.

 

As CraftyKel* said, you need to find more caches, so that you get a more 'rounded' idea of what geocaching (and placements) are or should be about. One of the worst things that happens is a "new" person rushes to place hides.

To add to that, you don't seem to understand how your device works yet.... how can you reasonably expect to place a cache, accurately?

 

This isn't meant as a slap, it is just another viewpoint to suggest that you aren't "ready" to hide caches, along the "why". A parallel to that would be learning the piano this week, and performing a recital next week. Sure, you can do it, but... are you ready?

[CraftyKel*]

Are you saying you are using 3G and Wifi to locate yourself? What about GPS? Your phone can locate you very roughly using 3G and Wifi networks, but it's VERY rough. You need to turn the GPS on in your phone (if your phone has GPS, most modern phones do but not all), then it should get you much nearer the spot If your phone doesn't have GPS there are options for adding GPS to it.

Edited October 1, 2012 by CraftyKel*

[JenniferS1]

Thanks Craftykel.

 

I've been geo caching with another user for a number of years, hence fallin I love with it and recently realized the potential of the I phone.

 

I get a much better accuracy when the phone has signal with all the 10 apps I downloaded today. Need to test them more before I trust them

 

Accuracies are affected when in 3G/wifi because it doesn't use GPS but the 3G towers location. As the 3G mobile can span several miles around these towers, can only give an approximate. So accuracies are different with wifi/3G.

 

I have learned this evening that GPS for caching is far superior!!! Although the app is pretty spot on for finding them and do not need 3G or wifi to so so and rely soley on the GPS. I knew there was a plus point to me working in the mobile industry

[CraftyKel*]

I thought all iPhones had built-in GPS receivers? If it does have GPS you're much better using that than 3G/Wifi positioning.

 

I'm wondering if perhaps I've gotten the wrong end of the stick somewhere, I'm rather confused, hopefully someone else can offer more insight.

[JenniferS1]

GPS doesn't work in airplane mode which I had on today but was using wifi. I am also confused now.

 

We will buy a GPS device eventually but would rather exploit the device I have already

 

I so have a GPS device from when about 4 years ago but lost the leads for it

[CraftyKel*]

Ah I think I see

 

Why airplane mode? Were you caching on a plane?

 

There's nothing wrong with caching with a smartphone, it's how I (and many) others cache, it's so much more convenient The only plus-side of a 'proper' GPS handset that I can't replicate is the durability

[JenniferS1]

I do mobile marketing as a job, ironically our office has very little signal so to get online I disable the 3G by putting airplane mode on... Seems to steady the wifi.

 

Sadly not going on hols

 

I'm very impressed with geo bucket, but would very much like to place my own and this app doesn't seem to support that (

[CraftyKel*]

If you upgrade to premium membership for $30 per year you can download pocket queries (depending on the app you decide to use) and can then cache offline so when you have shaky connection, you can cache offline and use your phone's GPS

 

Is there not an option to just turn off the 3G connection without using airplane mode? I only know Androids and I know we can do that.

 

EDIT : Also, I don't know of any app that will help you place a cache. I just use an app that displays the coordinates of my location and write them down. Do this several times approaching from different directions, different days, different times of day and work out an average and you're about there

Edited October 1, 2012 by CraftyKel*

[JenniferS1]

I need to read up about the co ordinates and see if these apps are accurate. I've downloaded about ten lol!!

 

Not sure about turning the 3G off.

 

Where are you based? I'm in the UK, can I pay in sterling I wonder?

[CraftyKel*]

I am in the UK too, yes you can pay in sterling, it gets converted at the payment stage if I remember correctly

 

You can also pay $10 for 3 months if you just want to try it out before committing to a full year....works out about £7

[+niraD]

The apps are only as accurate as the GPS receiver built into your phone. If your GPS receiver has been disabled, then the apps are only as accurate as the cell tower triangulation built into your phone, which is pretty poor for geocaching purposes.

 

My experience with Android devices has been that they are about as accurate as my old yellow eTrex. I've heard that the iPhone 4 (and later) has comparable GPS accuracy, but have no experience myself.

 

If you are not confident with the coordinates you obtain (no matter how you obtain them), then you can enter them into your device and try to "find" your cache location. Back away and approach from at least 100ft/30m. The arrow should point right at the cache. Repeat the test, approaching from various directions. The arrow should still point right at the cache, no matter which direction you approach from. If it doesn't, then adjust your coordinates and try again.

 

You get bonus points for repeating the test on a different day, when the satellite configuration is different.

 

But a modern hiking-oriented handheld device will have a high sensitivity receiver, which will have better accuracy (especially under heavy tree cover and in other conditions where the satellite reception is poor).

[CraftyKel*]

My experience with Android devices has been that they are about as accurate as my old yellow eTrex. I've heard that the iPhone 4 (and later) has comparable GPS accuracy, but have no experience myself.

 

<off-topic>

If only Androids were that easy, it's not as straight forward as that, it depends on manufacturer and model. My old LG went down to 4m accuracy, my new Samsung averages 8m with 6m at best. I've had to buy a bluetooth GPS receiver and it's the best thing I've ever done...paid a fiver on ebay and my accuracy goes down to 1.1m now. You can do that with iPhones, but because of the way Apple do things I understand it's much more expensive to do so.

</off-topic>

 

[JenniferS1]

Very helpful, thanks niraD

 

I'm so excited.

 

Geo caching should have a 'Warning: Highly Addictive' notice somewhere

[+Bear and Ragged]

If you're keen to hide a cache, see if a local cacher with a 'proper' hand held GPS will help to get coordinates.

There is a UK and Ireland section to these forums >here linky, come and join us!

[+Jmebd]

Reality check....most all consumer grade GPSr's will only get 16ft accuracy on a perfect day. Just the way it is for a unit that's $500 or less. You'll have to 'find' either a military grade GPSr or invest $1000 or more into a unit to get better accuracy than that. I've seen my Magellan x710 display 8 ft accuracy a time or two but really? You wanna believe that? Try this, turn on your GPSr track log and set it on the ground for about 20 or so minutes and check the track it makes (try to set it around 5 second intervals) and you'll see that thing jumping all over the map. Many factors affect how the thing reads such as weather & tree cover. Not to mention, who knows what the heck the person who planted the cache used to obtain the coordinates. There are so many different types of receivers on the market....I'm really happy to find a cache that's within a 25 ft radius of what a person list's as ground zero. Hopefully, someone using a smartphone in placing a cache will have a good clue listed to help those who take the time to search.

 

I'll agree with Crafty & nira on the "move away from the ground zero several times say 100 or so feet and re-approach from different directions". Do that a couple times and you'll be able to take an average number that's gonna be good enough with a good hint for anyone to look for it. Just expect an occasional jerk to say something like "well my GPSr said it's 66 ft from ground zero" or something like that. With the error of a smart phone AND the error of most other handheld units the problem could be compounded to make it "seem" really off.

 

Main thing...just try to have fun and hopefully others will be more "tolerant" to other peoples equipment as not everyone has $500 or more to throw around for something that's supposed to be a fun, recreational GAME. I've never been paid for being spot on for cache placement nor have I been paid for finding my coordinates are exactly someone elses. HAVE FUN!!!!

[JenniferS1]

Thank you x

[CraftyKel*]

Reality check....most all consumer grade GPSr's will only get 16ft accuracy on a perfect day. Just the way it is for a unit that's $500 or less. You'll have to 'find' either a military grade GPSr or invest $1000 or more into a unit to get better accuracy than that. I've seen my Magellan x710 display 8 ft accuracy a time or two but really? You wanna believe that? Try this, turn on your GPSr track log and set it on the ground for about 20 or so minutes and check the track it makes (try to set it around 5 second intervals) and you'll see that thing jumping all over the map.

 

I just recorded a 12 minute track with my GPS receiver sat on my window sill, recording every second. Total distance travelled was 4.3ft, it wasn't jumping around at all. I would post the track up, but I don't know how I can do that without showing where I live and that would be a bad thing.

 

I'm no pro, obviously, and am trying to learn more about GPS so am interested in others' experience, but at first glance this doesn't match up with what you're saying. The bluetooth GPS receiver (my new phone's built in GPS wasn't great) I am using does have dGPS (WAAS/EGNOS), as far as I can tell it's an extra signal that corrects for time differences and interference in GPS signals. Perhaps that is why I'm getting better results than you would expect? Or perhaps I am reading something wrong, I couldn't say for sure.

Edited October 2, 2012 by CraftyKel*

[+Jmebd]

Yes, obviously with dGPS correction data you WOULD be getting a "better" accuracy reading since the positioning data is being corrected but read the whole post and not just pick parts out of it.....

 

It won't matter that much since you have no idea of what the cache owner uses to place a cache to begin with. Perhaps they are using a smartphone as well and we all know those things are prone to "non-corrected data" being published. Then you run into the conundrum of those who are a bit "over the top" and post "well, my GPSr shows 23 ft N-NW of your ground zero". I say, if it's within 32 ft then it's going to be pretty well accepted as an 'ok' cache placement. You've got to allow for different people using different equipment.

 

As far as the track you made that sounds great! Would be nice if everyone could get that type of accuracy but then again...what fun would it be to say go to this point and not have some type of adventure looking for a cache? May tend to have people just post "TFTC" as a generic log instead of something more exciting if you've put in some effort into a quality plant.

 

[CraftyKel*]

Yes, obviously with dGPS correction data you WOULD be getting a "better" accuracy reading since the positioning data is being corrected but read the whole post and not just pick parts out of it.....

 

It won't matter that much since you have no idea of what the cache owner uses to place a cache to begin with. Perhaps they are using a smartphone as well and we all know those things are prone to "non-corrected data" being published. Then you run into the conundrum of those who are a bit "over the top" and post "well, my GPSr shows 23 ft N-NW of your ground zero". I say, if it's within 32 ft then it's going to be pretty well accepted as an 'ok' cache placement. You've got to allow for different people using different equipment.

 

As far as the track you made that sounds great! Would be nice if everyone could get that type of accuracy but then again...what fun would it be to say go to this point and not have some type of adventure looking for a cache? May tend to have people just post "TFTC" as a generic log instead of something more exciting if you've put in some effort into a quality plant.

 

Easy, tiger

 

I wasn't criticizing what you said or picking parts, you appeared to have more knoweledge than me in previous posts so I was posting my observations and hoping you would reply and fill me in on bits I may be missing...this is the 'getting started' forum after all, it's not 'geocaching topics' which can be a bit more ferocious

 

Anyways... I know that the accuracy doesn't just depend on my device, but also that of the hider, but if we all get the best we can with our devices then it leads to less deviation. Even if we all had 4-6ft accuracy there is still potential for 8-12ft discrapancy between then hider and finder, I agree, we don't all want to be spot-on, you're right, it would get boring being led to the exact spot

 

I was more curious about my 'perceived accuracy' as I've seen it called, my device is telling me 1.1m or whatever, but many seem to imply that this perhaps isn't quite all it's cracked up to be.

 

But, this topic has derailed somewhat (Sorry JenniferS1) and I think perhaps I should leave it there and research some more and perhaps follow up in the GPS & Tech forum.

 

Cheers, Russ

[+The Blorenges]

Here's an (quite) interesting topic from the UK forum which discusses GPS accuracy, or "perceived accuracy" which you may like to read, particularly the posts from #15 onwards:

 

Co-ordinates issues.

 

MrsB

[CraftyKel*]

Here's an (quite) interesting topic from the UK forum which discusses GPS accuracy, or "perceived accuracy" which you may like to read, particularly the posts from #15 onwards:

 

Co-ordinates issues.

 

MrsB

 

Thanks mate, very interesting reading

[+Jmebd]

Yes indeed...thanks for the read. And Crafty, hopefully no hard feelings...as it wasn't meant to sound the way I think you took it. Kind why I hate texting with the family is that ya can't read emotion with a text LOL.

 

Anyway, have you had a chance to try it out in a forest type setting with some really steep terrain yet? I'd be interested in what kind of readings you're getting. I'm just wondering if it would be worth while for me to look into getting one since I have a Magellan eXplorist x710 unit already and it seems to do pretty decent but it does have it's 'moments'.

[CraftyKel*]

Yes indeed...thanks for the read. And Crafty, hopefully no hard feelings...as it wasn't meant to sound the way I think you took it. Kind why I hate texting with the family is that ya can't read emotion with a text LOL.

 

Anyway, have you had a chance to try it out in a forest type setting with some really steep terrain yet? I'd be interested in what kind of readings you're getting. I'm just wondering if it would be worth while for me to look into getting one since I have a Magellan eXplorist x710 unit already and it seems to do pretty decent but it does have it's 'moments'.

 

No hard feelings, I understand how text can be mis-conceived, I tend to over-compensate and use too many smileys to make it clear I'm not serious/moaning

 

Where I live (Eastern England) there is very little in the way of steep terrain, this area is generally very flat. We do have a fair bit of woodland though and initial impressions are good. Whether in the open or in woods the indicated accuracy seems to stay under 2m (6ft). But I've only been out a couple of times and have not exhaustively tested it yet, not really enough to draw a solid conclusion.

 

However, it appears leaps and bounds ahead of my phone's GPS and we are finding caches much easier and quicker than before(of course that depends as well on the hiders' accuracy, but so far so good)

Edited October 11, 2012 by CraftyKel*