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Seabee-MC/HNY

Getting a Challenge Published

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Need some thoughts and help. I've been attempting to publish a 31 Days of Geocaching Challenge - The challenge is to find one cache on a day; two caches on another day; three caches on another day and so forth all the way up until you find caches on 31 days. That will make 496 caches in all that you would have to have found for this challenge. They can be done in any order and do not need to be on consecutive days. The minimum number of days that it would take to complete this Challenge is 31 days.

 

All cache types count and previous finds count.

Caches found on any date are eligible.

Caches found in any location are eligible.

This challenge cache does not count towards the challenge.

 

What the reviewer and appeals person saya is that I telling fellow cache to stop caching when they reach a number. I say that it's a challenge and people can take it or leave it. There are two other caches already set up GC2TWQB & GC33XJP.

 

I told that if I state insert "AT LEAST" it can be published. To me that would not meet the challenge requirements because it would mean that if someone had 31 days of finds where they found at least 31 caches they would be able to say they meet the challenge.

 

Thoughts?????

Edited by Seabee-MC/HNY

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Have you read the guidelines for challenge caches? Specifically:

One should not have to 'give up' finding other caches to achieve a challenge cache's requirements. To state that "10% of your find count needs to be Attended Logs" would require the geocacher to stop finding other types of caches and could affect their overall enjoyment of the game.

 

If I'm working on your challenge and I've found 16 caches today, then it sounds like you want me to "give up" finding other caches today if I'm going to count today towards day 16.

 

You can argue whether this is a good guideline, but I think it's pretty clear that it requires an "at least x" approach rather than an "exactly x" approach.

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Need some thoughts and help. I've been attempting to publish a 31 Days of Geocaching Challenge - The challenge is to find one cache on a day; two caches on another day; three caches on another day and so forth all the way up until you find caches on 31 days. That will make 496 caches in all that you would have to have found for this challenge. They can be done in any order and do not need to be on consecutive days. The minimum number of days that it would take to complete this Challenge is 31 days.

 

All cache types count and previous finds count.

Caches found on any date are eligible.

Caches found in any location are eligible.

This challenge cache does not count towards the challenge.

 

What the reviewer and appeals person saya is that I telling fellow cache to stop caching when they reach a number. I say that it's a challenge and people can take it or leave it. There are two other caches already set up GC2TWQB & GC33XJP.

 

I told that if I state insert "AT LEAST" it can be published. To me that would not meet the challenge requirements because it would mean that if someone had 31 days of finds where they found at least 31 caches they would be able to say they meet the challenge.

 

Thoughts?????

 

I think that the "reviewer and appeals person" have told you how to edit the cache to make it publishable, and that a thread on the forum won't change that decision.

 

Geocache Listing Requirements / Guidelines

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

Please be advised that there is no precedent for placing geocaches. This means that the past publication of a similar geocache in and of itself is not a valid justification for the publication of a new geocache. If a geocache has been published and violates any guidelines listed below, you are encouraged to report it. However, if the geocache was placed prior to the date when a guideline was issued or updated, the geocache is likely to be grandfathered and allowed to stand as is.

 

Help Center → Geocaching → Review Process: Hiding a Geocache

 

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=206

 

4.15. Challenge Caches

 

[updated 3/20/12]

 

Note: Challenge caches published prior to the guideline update 3/12/12 are grandfathered into the game and do not need to comply with current guidelines.

 

 

B.

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Those both pre-date the change in the challenge cache guidelines, which was the oddball date of 3/13/12. How do I know this? I beat it by 2 days with a challenge cache I got published on 3/11/12. I'm not saying mine wouldn't pass muster today, that's just how I know the random Tuesday of the change. :unsure:

 

The decisions of appeals are final. You will not get this challenge published. I can definitely see the "people have to stop finding caches at a certain point" angle, even though previous finds count (as they HAVE to under the new guidelines).

 

Pretty much only available to zany numbers cachers anyways. If one such challenge was ever published in my area, it would have been plonked on my ignore list, along with several other unattainable challenges. That's just me though. :)

 

EDIT: I see someone even wrote a GSAK Macro for this type of challenge. I can see your frustration that you won't be able to get it published since the change.

Edited by Mr.Yuck

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You could add "At least" and also note that one day cannot be applied to another. For example, If I find 31 caches on the first day, I could apply it to day 31, but not also day 30, 29, 28, etc... If on the second day I find 31, then I can apply it to day 30, but not 29, etc... If I only have day 16 left to fill, then I only need to find 16 in one day, but could find more and still be able to apply it on that day.

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Have you read the guidelines for challenge caches? Specifically:

One should not have to 'give up' finding other caches to achieve a challenge cache's requirements. To state that "10% of your find count needs to be Attended Logs" would require the geocacher to stop finding other types of caches and could affect their overall enjoyment of the game.

 

If I'm working on your challenge and I've found 16 caches today, then it sounds like you want me to "give up" finding other caches today if I'm going to count today towards day 16.

 

You can argue whether this is a good guideline, but I think it's pretty clear that it requires an "at least x" approach rather than an "exactly x" approach.

 

People "give up" finding caches all the time in order to complete a challenge cache, or a streak. The simple fact is, intentional or not, Challenge caches do change the way that people play the game on any particular day. If you want to complete a 100 day in a row Challenge, and there are only 100 caches in your area, you better not find them all in one day. I understand the Challenge not focusing on the negatives like DNFs, or forcing one to write notes instead of Found logs, but I don't see this Challenge as that at all. If the Challenge asked to do it in order, then it would directly try to control how you play, but leaving it open gives the cacher all kinds of opportunities to figure out how they are going to complete the Challenge.

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Need some thoughts and help. I've been attempting to publish a 31 Days of Geocaching Challenge - The challenge is to find one cache on a day; two caches on another day; three caches on another day and so forth all the way up until you find caches on 31 days. That will make 496 caches in all that you would have to have found for this challenge. They can be done in any order and do not need to be on consecutive days. The minimum number of days that it would take to complete this Challenge is 31 days.

 

All cache types count and previous finds count.

Caches found on any date are eligible.

Caches found in any location are eligible.

This challenge cache does not count towards the challenge.

 

What the reviewer and appeals person saya is that I telling fellow cache to stop caching when they reach a number. I say that it's a challenge and people can take it or leave it. There are two other caches already set up GC2TWQB & GC33XJP.

 

I told that if I state insert "AT LEAST" it can be published. To me that would not meet the challenge requirements because it would mean that if someone had 31 days of finds where they found at least 31 caches they would be able to say they meet the challenge.

 

Thoughts?????

 

I think that the "reviewer and appeals person" have told you how to edit the cache to make it publishable, and that a thread on the forum won't change that decision.

 

Geocache Listing Requirements / Guidelines

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

Please be advised that there is no precedent for placing geocaches. This means that the past publication of a similar geocache in and of itself is not a valid justification for the publication of a new geocache. If a geocache has been published and violates any guidelines listed below, you are encouraged to report it. However, if the geocache was placed prior to the date when a guideline was issued or updated, the geocache is likely to be grandfathered and allowed to stand as is.

 

Help Center → Geocaching → Review Process: Hiding a Geocache

 

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=206

 

4.15. Challenge Caches

 

[updated 3/20/12]

 

Note: Challenge caches published prior to the guideline update 3/12/12 are grandfathered into the game and do not need to comply with current guidelines.

 

 

B.

 

I agree. This forum thread is not going to get his cache published. But you may be surprised to learn that most of the guidelines that you linked to are a result of forum threads such as this.

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Those both pre-date the change in the challenge cache guidelines, which was the oddball date of 3/13/12. How do I know this? I beat it by 2 days with a challenge cache I got published on 3/11/12. I'm not saying mine wouldn't pass muster today, that's just how I know the random Tuesday of the change. :unsure:

 

The decisions of appeals are final. You will not get this challenge published. I can definitely see the "people have to stop finding caches at a certain point" angle, even though previous finds count (as they HAVE to under the new guidelines).

 

Pretty much only available to zany numbers cachers anyways. If one such challenge was ever published in my area, it would have been plonked on my ignore list, along with several other unattainable challenges. That's just me though. :)

 

EDIT: I see someone even wrote a GSAK Macro for this type of challenge. I can see your frustration that you won't be able to get it published since the change.

 

I already qualify, and I am not a zany numbers cacher. This might even be harder for a zany numbers cacher for the very reason that it was denied.

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I think that most are missing the point; no one is telling anyone that they have to stop caching at any point or any day. It would be their choice to participate in the challenge or not. When I first saw it I was missing 26, 29, 30 and 31 so I mapped and planned my caching trips to meet this challenge. The choice was mine. But I can see where this doesn’t favor the long time power cachers, because someone with only 31 days of caching could get this one and the old timers may be missing a few days because they always went for the numbers. This is taking the enjoyment out of placing caches.

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Those both pre-date the change in the challenge cache guidelines, which was the oddball date of 3/13/12. How do I know this? I beat it by 2 days with a challenge cache I got published on 3/11/12. I'm not saying mine wouldn't pass muster today, that's just how I know the random Tuesday of the change. :unsure:

 

The decisions of appeals are final. You will not get this challenge published. I can definitely see the "people have to stop finding caches at a certain point" angle, even though previous finds count (as they HAVE to under the new guidelines).

 

Pretty much only available to zany numbers cachers anyways. If one such challenge was ever published in my area, it would have been plonked on my ignore list, along with several other unattainable challenges. That's just me though. :)

 

EDIT: I see someone even wrote a GSAK Macro for this type of challenge. I can see your frustration that you won't be able to get it published since the change.

 

I already qualify, and I am not a zany numbers cacher. This might even be harder for a zany numbers cacher for the very reason that it was denied.

 

I like Don J. And I don't want to insult him. Perhaps I'll lighten the mood with a Jeff Foxworthy routine? If you have 2.30 times as many finds as me in two less years, you might just be a zany numbers cacher. :blink:

 

I guess dependent on where you're from, cache density, etc. I think I have 4 career days over 20 finds. My "best month" is 58, yours is 257. Never gonna happen for me, ever.

 

harder for the very reason it was denied? I wouldn't really say so. I think it's more of a coincedence for the finders of those two challenges that they just happen to have days of 1,2,3,.....29,30,31 finds. Besides, their 20+ ==> 31 find days could have been like Tuesday nights after work. :lol:

 

People "give up" finding caches all the time in order to complete a challenge cache, or a streak. The simple fact is, intentional or not, Challenge caches do change the way that people play the game on any particular day. If you want to complete a 100 day in a row Challenge, and there are only 100 caches in your area, you better not find them all in one day.

 

Funny you mention that. I was just looking at the profile of a somewhat local 15,000+ finder the other day, and they are clearly on a cache a day streak. I have no clue what they're going for, I'll have to ask sometime. But I can't argue with your point, that's for sure.

Edited by Mr.Yuck

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I think that most are missing the point; no one is telling anyone that they have to stop caching at any point or any day. It would be their choice to participate in the challenge or not.

 

Yes, I agree. But you have to convince the folks at appeals@geocaching.com, not us. Not to mention the reviewer community. I'm sure they were going back and forth about challenge caches in their top-secret forum that only they can see and post to for a couple years before the new guidelines came out last March.

Edited by Mr.Yuck

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I think that most are missing the point; no one is telling anyone that they have to stop caching at any point or any day. It would be their choice to participate in the challenge or not.
Well, sure... It's their choice whether or not to participate in the challenge. It's my choice to work on one challenge cache, to ignore others, and even to put a couple on my ignore list when they show up on my "nearest to home" list. Others have the same choice.

 

But so what? According to the guidelines, "One should not have to 'give up' finding other caches to achieve a challenge cache's requirements." (emphasis added)

 

What is being addressed isn't whether or not you're telling anyone to attempt your challenge cache. What is being addressed is whether or not those who choose to attempt your challenge cache will be disqualified or suffer some other penalty for posting additional Found/Attended logs.

 

But your "How Do I...?" question has already been answered. Actually, your "How Do I...?" question was answered by Groundspeak before you even created this thread.

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What the reviewer and appeals person saya is that I telling fellow cache to stop caching when they reach a number.

 

I told that if I state insert "AT LEAST" it can be published.

 

Not sure why you're concerned about what "we" think when the reviewer and appeals person has already answered you from the sounds of things.

 

Not much else to be said.

 

You can continue to plead your case with Appeals, or edit the cache page/challenge the way they want you to, and get it published.

 

 

B.

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I like Don J. And I don't want to insult him. Perhaps I'll lighten the mood with a Jeff Foxworthy routine? If you have 2.30 times as many finds as me in two less years, you might just be a zany numbers cacher. :blink:

 

I guess dependent on where you're from, cache density, etc. I think I have 4 career days over 20 finds. My "best month" is 58, yours is 257. Never gonna happen for me, ever.

 

 

At the risk of detracting from the topic, I'll explain why I don't consider myself a zany numbers cacher. I agree that a lot is dependent on the area, cache and cacher density. Even though my numbers have grown to what I thought impossible when I started, so have the number of people placing caches. I just find the caches along the way. I would guess that at least 80% of my finds were done on foot on a hiking trail. If anything, we have zany numbers hiders around here. For several years my most in a day was 72 and my feet never left the dirt, except at the 32 creek crossings. I drive past at least 100 caches on the way to work everyday. I may get some of them someday, I may not, they really are not that important to me. The zany numbers cachers around here have found all of them before they were two days old. I will admit that if I see a hiking trail with a whole bunch of closed treasure chests on it, I'm drawn to it. I like to hike and I like to find caches. The numbers just happen.

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I like Don J. And I don't want to insult him. Perhaps I'll lighten the mood with a Jeff Foxworthy routine? If you have 2.30 times as many finds as me in two less years, you might just be a zany numbers cacher. :blink:

 

I guess dependent on where you're from, cache density, etc. I think I have 4 career days over 20 finds. My "best month" is 58, yours is 257. Never gonna happen for me, ever.

 

 

At the risk of detracting from the topic, I'll explain why I don't consider myself a zany numbers cacher. I agree that a lot is dependent on the area, cache and cacher density. Even though my numbers have grown to what I thought impossible when I started, so have the number of people placing caches. I just find the caches along the way. I would guess that at least 80% of my finds were done on foot on a hiking trail. If anything, we have zany numbers hiders around here. For several years my most in a day was 72 and my feet never left the dirt, except at the 32 creek crossings. I drive past at least 100 caches on the way to work everyday. I may get some of them someday, I may not, they really are not that important to me. The zany numbers cachers around here have found all of them before they were two days old. I will admit that if I see a hiking trail with a whole bunch of closed treasure chests on it, I'm drawn to it. I like to hike and I like to find caches. The numbers just happen.

 

Don't worry about it! I like your explanation and agree with it. I'll just throw in one more comment, quote and respond to someone else in the same post, and we're off the hook. :) Your State has 110,000 caches. Mine has 25,000 (which is nothing to sneeze at, by the way). Numbers just happen, of course. I also think anyone with 4,000 or more finds would qualify for that challenge without even trying, and see they do by running the Macro. Or 3,500 finds in 2 years, like the OP. OK, I'm done. :ph34r:

 

 

What the reviewer and appeals person saya is that I telling fellow cache to stop caching when they reach a number.

 

I told that if I state insert "AT LEAST" it can be published.

 

Not sure why you're concerned about what "we" think when the reviewer and appeals person has already answered you from the sounds of things.

 

Not much else to be said.

 

You can continue to plead your case with Appeals, or edit the cache page/challenge the way they want you to, and get it published.

 

B.

 

I have never appealed a cache, although I did help a then 14 year old cacher with his a long time ago. So long ago I think he's a Junior in College now. Anywho, can you "continue to plead your case" with appeals? I was under the impression their first careful decision was final. Send one too many argumentative emails, and I think you're going get one back reminding you the decision was final.

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I'm not being very helpful, am I Seabee? :) This is the how do I forum, and the question is getting a challenge published. I would, in my opinion submissively agree to the "x number of caches or more" clause, and make sure they will accept a "you can only use a certain day once" requirement. It's theoretical and ridiculous, but what's to stop someone who has found exactly 31 caches some random day 5 years ago from trying to use it for all 31 days?

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A veteran cacher would have no issues with this cache, and (like me) would probably qualify at the time of publication.

What needs to be considered is the newbie cacher, who would indeed need to stop caching at a particular number of finds to make that day's caching count for the challenge.

 

I think it's a good rule guideline. Cachers should not have to alter their usual caching activities to conform to a challenge cache's requirements.

 

There is a series of challenges near me (that apparently were published before this guideline went into effect) that require X percentage of Y finds to be (?) caches.

I would need to find nothing but (?) caches for the next six months to qualify for the 'hardest' one...ain't gonna happen. :mad:

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