"Needs Archived" followup

[+PhotoDon]

I searched for two caches in Northern Arizona and could not find either one. Both were obviously missing. I filed a "Needs Archived" log on both of them and received an access key and link to follow up on my requests. On checking the NA logs a couple weeks later, I received this message: "This request has been closed and is no longer available for public viewing," yet there is no indication on the Geocache pages that anything was done or that the NA request was even looked at by the cache owners or the regional manager. Is anyone responsible for reading them to verify and follow up on them? Visiting the Geocache pages shows that my NAs were posted but there is no indication that anyone read them. Is there something else I can do to get things moving?

 

Thanks for any info.

 

PhotoDon

[+The Blorenges]

When you put a NA log onto a geocache page you don't normally receive any 'access key' - It's just a log that appears on the cache page (just like any other log). The only difference is that NA logs also automatically go through to the local reviewer so they are made aware of any possible problem. They assess each situation and take action as they deem appropriate.

 

If you received an access key did you send a separate email about the caches direct to geocaching.com? When making contact with the site by email to contact@geocaching.com one usually receives an automated reply and reference number for any follow-up.

 

I'm a bit puzzled about what's happened here.

 

MrsB

[Keystone]

1. Your "Needs Archived" logs were validly recorded on August 24th.

2. It's not necessary, when logging "Needs Archived," to also write a support ticket request to Groundspeak. The volunteer cache reviewer handles the request in most cases.

3. Many volunteer cache reviewers wait for a time to see if and how the cache owner responds to the "Needs Archived" log. Since your logs were entered just a week ago, I would continue to be patient. This is especially true in the case of the one cache where only you and one other geocacher have been unsuccessful in finding the cache.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

We have found that when we don't find a cache, we simply did not find it, in which case we file a DNF log.

Because we didn't find it, we don't know where it is. How can we assume it is missing? It would be a leap to consider a NA simply because we did not find it, especially if we were (nearly) the only ones that couldn't find it!

 

That is of course, we find some debris that appears to have been a cache, or some manner of attachment with nothing attached.

[+The_Incredibles_]

Can you tell us the GC numbers?

[+PhotoDon]

Can you tell us the GC numbers?

 

GC33EEJ & GC2Y4FC

[+The_Incredibles_]

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GC33EEJ&Submit6=Go

 

For the above, I would say a NA was appropriate. In our town, our reviewer would post a note on the page giving hte cache owner 30 days to check it before archiving. Usually she will post this note the next day or at the latest a week. However, in your area, they may give the cache owner a few weeks to respond before doing anything.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GC2Y4FC+&Submit6=Go

 

This one has only been missing since July. Is it possible you were searching the wrong stump? Or that the film cannister is there, just buried deep? The last cacher and you both have less than 100 finds. In this case, a NA is a bit premature. Better to post a Needs Maintenance log first to alert the cache owner. IF they get alot of emails, a couple of DNFs may not stand out. The cache owner has logged inas recently as September 1st so they are an active cacher and are likely to replace, rather than archive. If still no response 1 month after a Needs Maintenance, you could post a Needs Archive. I'm not sure exactly how the reviewr in your area does things. They may ignore a NA like this.

Edited September 2, 2012 by The_Incredibles_

[+PhotoDon]

We have found that when we don't find a cache, we simply did not find it, in which case we file a DNF log.

Because we didn't find it, we don't know where it is. How can we assume it is missing? It would be a leap to consider a NA simply because we did not find it, especially if we were (nearly) the only ones that couldn't find it!

 

That is of course, we find some debris that appears to have been a cache, or some manner of attachment with nothing attached.

 

Of the 82 or so caches I have tried to find I think I have had 8 DNFs before these two. This is the first time I've reported a NA. The reason I reported them is because it was obvious to my inexperienced eyes that they were not there.

 

1. For Welcome to FLG, GC2Y4FC, the geocacher before me didn't find it. The previous find was July 3. Other loggers said it was an easy find. The clue was "Where wood would have been when there was a tree here" and there was an isolated dead tree trunk right at the coordinates. My GPS is usually accurate to within 6 feet of a cache. I thoroughly searched in, under and around the tree trunk and the surrounding area on my hands and knees.

 

2. For the Sandy's Trail Cache, GC33EEJ, there were four DNFs before mine. The last find was 10/4/2011. Again, to my inexperienced eyes this one seemed obvious, too. It should have been an easy find with the great clue about the eagle's nest, which I found easily enough.

to leave.

 

The reason for my impatience is that I will be leaving this area soon and was hoping to bag these two finds before I have to go. I realize that the folks responsible for the care and feeding of these caches have other priorities. But I also reported them in the interest of the Geocaching community. It is no fun to have to log a DNF.

[+Ma & Pa]

When a cache has a few DNF's around here, we usually see a Needs Maintenance log to make sure that the CO notices the problem, especialy if the CO is still active. I thought that NA was for desperate situations.

 

I agree that the caches may be missing in these cases, but the owner could replace them rather than archiving them.

 

You say you are leaving the area soon and would like to bag these two caches before leaving. Well if they get archived as you have requested, you will not be getting them.

 

PA

[+BAMBOOZLE]

We have found that when we don't find a cache, we simply did not find it, in which case we file a DNF log.

Because we didn't find it, we don't know where it is. How can we assume it is missing? It would be a leap to consider a NA simply because we did not find it, especially if we were (nearly) the only ones that couldn't find it!

 

That is of course, we find some debris that appears to have been a cache, or some manner of attachment with nothing attached.

 

Exactly.....just log a DNF and move on.....more misuse of NA / NM.

In around 11,000 searches over almost 10 years I may have logged a couple of NM's and my first NA a few weeks ago ( owner long gone from website and cache is destroyed and on posted private property )

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Inexperience aside -- that isn't the issue, only the CO or a previous finder knows where the cache truly is (or was) -- you do not.

You are merely making an assumption that it (or both) are missing. That, by itself, is hardly a good basis for an NA log.

 

Proper methodology would be:

File the NM log (and a DNF log), owner checks, cache is/isn't there -- matter is taken care of;

 

File the NM log (and the DNF), allow a reasonable amount of time for the owner to put aside other matters (picnics; vacation; surgery or who knows what) to check it out. Place a "watch" on the cache. No action for a month or so, log a NA.

 

You see, to some, the DNF is somewhat important. If one logs a straight-up NA on mine w/o even filing a DNF, I have reasonable suspicion that they never even looked for the cache in the first place -- *it's the kind of person I am (sorry).

 

---------------------

Regardless of whether you are leaving the area or not, the NA action you already posted (if it follows the normal time-frame parameters) still will not be resolved by the time you leave, as Ma & Pa stated. Normally, a CO is allowed something like 30-60 days to take action (this does vary a bit between reviewers) after reviewer posting -- which in turn, is sometime after the NA posting. Your "hurry up" notes do nothing to/for/about the process.

[+The_Incredibles_]

We have found that when we don't find a cache, we simply did not find it, in which case we file a DNF log.

Because we didn't find it, we don't know where it is. How can we assume it is missing? It would be a leap to consider a NA simply because we did not find it, especially if we were (nearly) the only ones that couldn't find it!

 

That is of course, we find some debris that appears to have been a cache, or some manner of attachment with nothing attached.

 

Of the 82 or so caches I have tried to find I think I have had 8 DNFs before these two. This is the first time I've reported a NA. The reason I reported them is because it was obvious to my inexperienced eyes that they were not there.

 

1. For Welcome to FLG, GC2Y4FC, the geocacher before me didn't find it. The previous find was July 3. Other loggers said it was an easy find. The clue was "Where wood would have been when there was a tree here" and there was an isolated dead tree trunk right at the coordinates. My GPS is usually accurate to within 6 feet of a cache. I thoroughly searched in, under and around the tree trunk and the surrounding area on my hands and knees.

 

2. For the Sandy's Trail Cache, GC33EEJ, there were four DNFs before mine. The last find was 10/4/2011. Again, to my inexperienced eyes this one seemed obvious, too. It should have been an easy find with the great clue about the eagle's nest, which I found easily enough.

to leave.

 

The reason for my impatience is that I will be leaving this area soon and was hoping to bag these two finds before I have to go. I realize that the folks responsible for the care and feeding of these caches have other priorities. But I also reported them in the interest of the Geocaching community. It is no fun to have to log a DNF.

 

The Sandry's Trail Cache is owned by someone with only 3 finds who hasn't logged on since Sept 2011. Chances are this one won't be replaced, especially not before you leave. However, like I said, the NA is appropriate. I don't it when people are afraid to log a NA in a case like this. Yes, there's some slight possibility it's still there, however, it's highly unlikely it's not. It would be great if a previous finder could go to check...however, caches migrate, so even a check by a previous finder wouldn't guarantee it's gone. Posting a Needs Archive in this case is a favor to the caching community. How many more people need to go out there and search fruitlessly? Should this go on for years? I think the OP did the right thing by posting a NA on this cache.

 

For the Welcome to the Flag cache, it does sound like it's missing. However, even as an experienced cacher, it's still possible to miss a spot. You never know. If I was the cache owner, I'd probably go out right away and check. However, for others it will take longer and like you said, they may have stuff going on in their lives. They may also want to wait for more DNFs. Again, probably not going to replaced before you leave. In this situation, I might have mentioned in my DNF that I was leaving the area soon and hoped to find this one before I left. That's the best you can do.

 

DNF happens.

Edited September 3, 2012 by The_Incredibles_

[+PhotoDon]

We have found that when we don't find a cache, we simply did not find it, in which case we file a DNF log.

Because we didn't find it, we don't know where it is. How can we assume it is missing? It would be a leap to consider a NA simply because we did not find it, especially if we were (nearly) the only ones that couldn't find it!

 

That is of course, we find some debris that appears to have been a cache, or some manner of attachment with nothing attached.

 

Of the 82 or so caches I have tried to find I think I have had 8 DNFs before these two. This is the first time I've reported a NA. The reason I reported them is because it was obvious to my inexperienced eyes that they were not there.

 

1. For Welcome to FLG, GC2Y4FC, the geocacher before me didn't find it. The previous find was July 3. Other loggers said it was an easy find. The clue was "Where wood would have been when there was a tree here" and there was an isolated dead tree trunk right at the coordinates. My GPS is usually accurate to within 6 feet of a cache. I thoroughly searched in, under and around the tree trunk and the surrounding area on my hands and knees.

 

2. For the Sandy's Trail Cache, GC33EEJ, there were four DNFs before mine. The last find was 10/4/2011. Again, to my inexperienced eyes this one seemed obvious, too. It should have been an easy find with the great clue about the eagle's nest, which I found easily enough.

to leave.

 

The reason for my impatience is that I will be leaving this area soon and was hoping to bag these two finds before I have to go. I realize that the folks responsible for the care and feeding of these caches have other priorities. But I also reported them in the interest of the Geocaching community. It is no fun to have to log a DNF.

 

The Sandry's Trail Cache is owned by someone with only 3 finds who hasn't logged on since Sept 2011. Chances are this one won't be replaced, especially not before you leave. However, like I said, the NA is appropriate. I don't it when people are afraid to log a NA in a case like this. Yes, there's some slight possibility it's still there, however, it's highly unlikely it's not. It would be great if a previous finder could go to check...however, caches migrate, so even a check by a previous finder wouldn't guarantee it's gone. Posting a Needs Archive in this case is a favor to the caching community. How many more people need to go out there and search fruitlessly? Should this go on for years? I think the OP did the right thing by posting a NA on this cache.

 

For the Welcome to the Flag cache, it does sound like it's missing. However, even as an experienced cacher, it's still possible to miss a spot. You never know. If I was the cache owner, I'd probably go out right away and check. However, for others it will take longer and like you said, they may have stuff going on in their lives. They may also want to wait for more DNFs. Again, probably not going to replaced before you leave. In this situation, I might have mentioned in my DNF that I was leaving the area soon and hoped to find this one before I left. That's the best you can do.

 

DNF happens.

 

Thank you all for your responses, explanations and advice. I now understand the difference between DNF, NM and NA. I will use these tools with caution in the future. Happy Labor Day and Happy Geocaching!

Photo Don

[+NicoleLackey]

I searched for two caches in Northern Arizona and could not find either one. Both were obviously missing. I filed a "Needs Archived" log on both of them and received an access key and link to follow up on my requests. On checking the NA logs a couple weeks later, I received this message: "This request has been closed and is no longer available for public viewing," yet there is no indication on the Geocache pages that anything was done or that the NA request was even looked at by the cache owners or the regional manager. Is anyone responsible for reading them to verify and follow up on them? Visiting the Geocache pages shows that my NAs were posted but there is no indication that anyone read them. Is there something else I can do to get things moving?

 

Thanks for any info.

 

PhotoDon

 

Your question about the access key and a link to follow up on your requests was because you had emailed contact@geocaching.com or sent a message to us via our Help Center. My colleague responded with the suggestions above. You should have received this response in an email on Friday August 24. The request was closed because we responded and suggested how to resolve it. You can reply to the email to open the request back up if you'd like for further questions.

 

I hope this helps further! I'm glad the supportive caching community could answer your question as well.

[+PhotoDon]

I searched for two caches in Northern Arizona and could not find either one. Both were obviously missing. I filed a "Needs Archived" log on both of them and received an access key and link to follow up on my requests. On checking the NA logs a couple weeks later, I received this message: "This request has been closed and is no longer available for public viewing," yet there is no indication on the Geocache pages that anything was done or that the NA request was even looked at by the cache owners or the regional manager. Is anyone responsible for reading them to verify and follow up on them? Visiting the Geocache pages shows that my NAs were posted but there is no indication that anyone read them. Is there something else I can do to get things moving?

 

Thanks for any info.

 

PhotoDon

 

Your question about the access key and a link to follow up on your requests was because you had emailed contact@geocaching.com or sent a message to us via our Help Center. My colleague responded with the suggestions above. You should have received this response in an email on Friday August 24. The request was closed because we responded and suggested how to resolve it. You can reply to the email to open the request back up if you'd like for further questions.

 

I hope this helps further! I'm glad the supportive caching community could answer your question as well.

 

Thanks for your followup Nicole. I did receive that email and then logged the NA but the question has been addressed by other geocachers as well. Apparently an NA was not appropriate at that time. I could have logged a NM or just let my DNF suffice. I think there is no need to reopen the NA. I am tracking the two GCs and will be made aware of whatever results transpire.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Don