FTF Hogs

[+redants]

Recently a series came out near me where there were 10 caches in a row along

a rural road.

The first person on the scene got 8 of the FTFs and missed the last two only because someone

had started at the other end.

 

I love a good competition for FTFs, but (I don't know, Jerry!) sometimes I think

they are FTF hogs and should let someone else find at least a FEW of the 10.

I see where a person is SO happy to get their first FTF - it's heartwarming

to see the joy they experience. So, when someone takes all 10 of a new series,

I think it's unsportsmanlike and inconsiderate. Am I wrong here?

I live in an area where the more obsessed cachers will get out at 00:05 to nab the FTF, we just stop thinking its unfair. It is just a fact of life for some areas. . Except if you live here

[+The_Incredibles_]

I live in an area where the more obsessed cachers will get out at 00:05 to nab the FTF, we just stop thinking its unfair. It is just a fact of life for some areas. . Except if you live here

 

I'm always up after midnight. Once I got a FTF in the early a.m. Why not? It's quick getting there because there's no one else on the road and no muggles to worry about.

[Andronicus]

I can't believe this thread has found it's way to the top of the forum again...

 

But I have to side with Elastigirl. Kids etc. are no excuse; I have 4 kids, a full time job, and help my wife with her home based buisness, and I have more than 10 FTFs. If you want a FTF, and are willing to work for it, you can get one. 0005h is only for the extream? Are you kidding me? If you are not willing to make even that little sacrifice, you don't deserve a FTF.

 

Here are some tips for you:

 

-Learn when your reviewer(s) tend to puplish caches. My local reviewer usualy publishes them at 0700h or 2200h. Clear your schedule at those times.

-If you have crazy FTF hounds in your area, wait for a new cache to be published near your house, so you can get there quickly.

-Have a system set up so you get the notification e-mails imediatly. NOTE: POP3 email is not sufficient. You must have a push email setup (gmail,and some others have this functionality as an option).

-Or, just go find a back country cache that has no finds. These will often sit for weeks or months before the FTF.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Andronicus

[+Scubasonic]

Same problem we have with Society, to many want something for nothing, few want to put in the work and commitment it takes to be successful

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Same problem we have with Society, to many want something for nothing, few want to put in the work and commitment it takes to be successful

 

Okay I'm convinced. From now on I'm never going to donating blood to the red cross. I'm going to stop making charitable contributions to United Way or donate to relief funds when the next big earthquake or hurricane hits. That elderly woman struggling with an armload of packages can get the door by herself from now own. Good will, generosity, an philanthropy will no longer be in my vocabulary. From now on is all about greed.

[+Sharks-N-Beans]

Same problem we have with Society, to many want something for nothing, few want to put in the work and commitment it takes to be successful

 

Okay I'm convinced. From now on I'm never going to donating blood to the red cross. I'm going to stop making charitable contributions to United Way or donate to relief funds when the next big earthquake or hurricane hits. That elderly woman struggling with an armload of packages can get the door by herself from now own. Good will, generosity, an philanthropy will no longer be in my vocabulary. From now on is all about greed.

That's a pretty good straw man you made there.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Sharks-N-Beans

[Andronicus]

Same problem we have with Society, to many want something for nothing, few want to put in the work and commitment it takes to be successful

 

Okay I'm convinced. From now on I'm never going to donating blood to the red cross. I'm going to stop making charitable contributions to United Way or donate to relief funds when the next big earthquake or hurricane hits. That elderly woman struggling with an armload of packages can get the door by herself from now own. Good will, generosity, an philanthropy will no longer be in my vocabulary. From now on is all about greed.

I think this falls under the False Analogy Fallacy catagory. I really don't see what helping people in need (through no fault of their own) has to do with expecting others to give you a FTF.

 

Here is a list of different kinds of needs:

1) In need through no fault of their own.

2) In need because proper preperation/precausion was not taken.

3) In need because they/he/she put themeself into dangerous situation (could be physical, financial, relationship etc.).

4) In need because they/he/she wants it and are unwilling to earn it.

 

Item 1, I will help with whenever I can. 2 and 3, I may or may not help with; depending on the situation and my mood. Catagory 4, I will rarely help with. Even my own kids usualy have to earn stuff. I think that this FTF hog accusation fits into catagory 4.

[+J Grouchy]

I'm bummed about not getting any FTFs, but the problem for me is I'm always home for the night when these things pop up...and by the time I'm able to get out there in daylight it's already been logged. I'm determined to get one some day. I'll be happy just getting one!

[+Legochugglers]

I'm bummed about not getting any FTFs, but the problem for me is I'm always home for the night when these things pop up...and by the time I'm able to get out there in daylight it's already been logged. I'm determined to get one some day. I'll be happy just getting one!

 

You wait, you will be even more 'bummed' (careful with this phrase on an international forum) when you finally are first to get to GZ and:......

 

insert as required:

 

- The co-ordinates are miles out, you dont have a cat in hells chance of finding it!

- The new CO didnt realise it would be published that quickly. Its not placed yet.

- The hint says in hedge by tree and you're stood in front of some metal railings with not a hedge or tree in sight.

- The GPS points to the back gate of a school with children playing a few feet from where you've decided to push your way into the bushes.

 

All the above have happened to me recently. Its no 'cakewalk' out there for FTFers. For every row of smilies there's embarrassment, disappointment and disillusionment!

[+The_Incredibles_]

Same problem we have with Society, to many want something for nothing, few want to put in the work and commitment it takes to be successful

 

Okay I'm convinced. From now on I'm never going to donating blood to the red cross. I'm going to stop making charitable contributions to United Way or donate to relief funds when the next big earthquake or hurricane hits. That elderly woman struggling with an armload of packages can get the door by herself from now own. Good will, generosity, an philanthropy will no longer be in my vocabulary. From now on is all about greed.

 

ROFL.

[Andronicus]

I'm bummed about not getting any FTFs, but the problem for me is I'm always home for the night when these things pop up...and by the time I'm able to get out there in daylight it's already been logged. I'm determined to get one some day. I'll be happy just getting one!

If you are planning to get more than just lucky FTFs, the phrase "home for the night" should not be part of your vocabulary.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Same problem we have with Society, to many want something for nothing, few want to put in the work and commitment it takes to be successful

 

Okay I'm convinced. From now on I'm never going to donating blood to the red cross. I'm going to stop making charitable contributions to United Way or donate to relief funds when the next big earthquake or hurricane hits. That elderly woman struggling with an armload of packages can get the door by herself from now own. Good will, generosity, an philanthropy will no longer be in my vocabulary. From now on is all about greed.

I think this falls under the False Analogy Fallacy catagory. I really don't see what helping people in need (through no fault of their own) has to do with expecting others to give you a FTF.

 

Here is a list of different kinds of needs:

1) In need through no fault of their own.

2) In need because proper preperation/precausion was not taken.

3) In need because they/he/she put themeself into dangerous situation (could be physical, financial, relationship etc.).

4) In need because they/he/she wants it and are unwilling to earn it.

 

Item 1, I will help with whenever I can. 2 and 3, I may or may not help with; depending on the situation and my mood. Catagory 4, I will rarely help with. Even my own kids usualy have to earn stuff. I think that this FTF hog accusation fits into catagory 4.

 

Obviously the analogy wouldn't apply if "helping people in need" was what we're talking about here.

 

Much of the responses in this and other FTF thread seem to framed around the assumption that someone that wants to get a FTF occasionally is doing so out of some sense of entitlement. I don't see it that way. I'm looking at it from the perspective that geocaching is a social game that would not exist without the good will of geocachers placing geocaches for others to find. It's a community of hiders and seekers and one would not exist without the other. When I think of terms like good will and generosity I don't think of doing something for someone in need, or out of obligation. I think of doing something because it's a nice thing to do for a fellow geocacher. I don't hold the door open for someone that's walking up behind me because they need to have the door held open. I do it because it's a nice thing to do for another person.

[+Tobias & Petronella]

Good will, generosity, an philanthropy will no longer be in my vocabulary. From now on is all about greed.

 

Here is a quote from the famous American Gordon Gekko:

 

"The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed -- for lack of a better word -- is good.

 

Greed is right.

 

Greed works.

 

Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

 

Greed, in all of its forms -- greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind."

 

Those that go after FTF's are doing the geocaching society a great service. We warn of hazards that the CO has failed to mention. We make sure that the cache is in place so others don't waste their time and money going out there and looking for it. We are the ones that are first to be greeted by the police and neighbors to explain this game and what they can expect from time to time. We are the ones that help "fix" the puzzles and multis so that so it makes sense, so others can enjoy the challenge and the fun, knowing that the cache does work and can be found. We do this and a lot more not to prove anything, but because we care so much for this game and the others players.

 

 

Tobias

[+The_Incredibles_]

Well said, Tobias and Petronella.

 

It happens quite regularly here that the coordinates given by the CO are "off".

 

Our last FTF was 100 meters off! The CO was very grateful for my coords b/c even after taking another reading, he couldn't get accurate ones. I had a 4 year old and 11 year old with me.

 

"Found it 01/04/2013N 48° 35.643 W 123° 24.569 FTF at 8:40pm!! I wasn't planning to go for this one, but superdude12345 dropped by and was interested so we decided to go for it. We went to the coordinates listed, but we were on the wrong side of the road. We crossed the road, but didn't see anything that matched the hint. We walked back up the road and looked for rocks. We found some that required sliding down deep embankments. Found lots of garbage, but no cache. Walked further back. I had a hunch and sure enough found the cache in a spot with nicer terrain. The kids enjoyed trading and we replaced as found. Coords were about 100 meters off. TFTH!"

 

Another FTF I got...there was a mistake in the puzzle. I managed to figure it out and notify the CO who fixed it for other cachers.

 

And...anyone who says FTF hounds are greedy should have been there at this one. My link It was the CO's first cache, a bison tube. Long story short, the cache was not in place at time of publishing. A group of us sorted through alot of garbage and alot of dog crap. There was nothing glamorous about it. I actually grabbed the same piece of dog poop *twice*, each time thinking it was the cache. After we'd all gone home, the CO posted a note with apologies saying it was in place now. After midnight I got the FTF. I do believe I earned it.

Edited January 21, 2013 by The_Incredibles_

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Good will, generosity, an philanthropy will no longer be in my vocabulary. From now on is all about greed.

 

Here is a quote from the famous American Gordon Gekko:

 

"The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed -- for lack of a better word -- is good.

 

Greed is right.

 

Greed works.

 

Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

 

Greed, in all of its forms -- greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind."

 

I think I'm going to throw up.

 

We do this and a lot more not to prove anything, but because we care so much for this game and the others players.

 

Tobias

 

Sure you do. That's what the letters FTF appear no less than 24 times on your profile page.

[+Mudfrog]

Same problem we have with Society, to many want something for nothing, few want to put in the work and commitment it takes to be successful

 

Okay I'm convinced. From now on I'm never going to donating blood to the red cross. I'm going to stop making charitable contributions to United Way or donate to relief funds when the next big earthquake or hurricane hits. That elderly woman struggling with an armload of packages can get the door by herself from now own. Good will, generosity, an philanthropy will no longer be in my vocabulary. From now on is all about greed.

I think this falls under the False Analogy Fallacy catagory. I really don't see what helping people in need (through no fault of their own) has to do with expecting others to give you a FTF.

 

Here is a list of different kinds of needs:

1) In need through no fault of their own.

2) In need because proper preperation/precausion was not taken.

3) In need because they/he/she put themeself into dangerous situation (could be physical, financial, relationship etc.).

4) In need because they/he/she wants it and are unwilling to earn it.

 

Item 1, I will help with whenever I can. 2 and 3, I may or may not help with; depending on the situation and my mood. Catagory 4, I will rarely help with. Even my own kids usualy have to earn stuff. I think that this FTF hog accusation fits into catagory 4.

 

Obviously the analogy wouldn't apply if "helping people in need" was what we're talking about here.

 

Much of the responses in this and other FTF thread seem to framed around the assumption that someone that wants to get a FTF occasionally is doing so out of some sense of entitlement. I don't see it that way. I'm looking at it from the perspective that geocaching is a social game that would not exist without the good will of geocachers placing geocaches for others to find. It's a community of hiders and seekers and one would not exist without the other. When I think of terms like good will and generosity I don't think of doing something for someone in need, or out of obligation. I think of doing something because it's a nice thing to do for a fellow geocacher. I don't hold the door open for someone that's walking up behind me because they need to have the door held open. I do it because it's a nice thing to do for another person.

 

In the grand scheme of life, getting a ftf is not that important. Gc.com doesn't sanction or care for the ftf game. But,, it is played by many people just the same. It's usually a friendly competition and like any competition, the goal is to win. Sure, i will be nice and sometimes let my 5 year old daughter win games that we play. Yes, with all the whining, it does seem like we have a bunch of children here, but i honestly do not believe this is the case. Adults, young adults, and teens can, and should be prepared to compete for a ftf if they want it. Being "nice" or not, i just don't understand how it would be satisfying to anyone when they were handed one.

[+redants]

Same problem we have with Society, to many want something for nothing, few want to put in the work and commitment it takes to be successful

 

Okay I'm convinced. From now on I'm never going to donating blood to the red cross. I'm going to stop making charitable contributions to United Way or donate to relief funds when the next big earthquake or hurricane hits. That elderly woman struggling with an armload of packages can get the door by herself from now own. Good will, generosity, an philanthropy will no longer be in my vocabulary. From now on is all about greed.

I think this falls under the False Analogy Fallacy catagory. I really don't see what helping people in need (through no fault of their own) has to do with expecting others to give you a FTF.

 

Here is a list of different kinds of needs:

1) In need through no fault of their own.

2) In need because proper preperation/precausion was not taken.

3) In need because they/he/she put themeself into dangerous situation (could be physical, financial, relationship etc.).

4) In need because they/he/she wants it and are unwilling to earn it.

 

Item 1, I will help with whenever I can. 2 and 3, I may or may not help with; depending on the situation and my mood. Catagory 4, I will rarely help with. Even my own kids usualy have to earn stuff. I think that this FTF hog accusation fits into catagory 4.

 

Obviously the analogy wouldn't apply if "helping people in need" was what we're talking about here.

 

Much of the responses in this and other FTF thread seem to framed around the assumption that someone that wants to get a FTF occasionally is doing so out of some sense of entitlement. I don't see it that way. I'm looking at it from the perspective that geocaching is a social game that would not exist without the good will of geocachers placing geocaches for others to find. It's a community of hiders and seekers and one would not exist without the other. When I think of terms like good will and generosity I don't think of doing something for someone in need, or out of obligation. I think of doing something because it's a nice thing to do for a fellow geocacher. I don't hold the door open for someone that's walking up behind me because they need to have the door held open. I do it because it's a nice thing to do for another person.

 

In the grand scheme of life, getting a ftf is not that important. Gc.com doesn't sanction or care for the ftf game. But,, it is played by many people just the same. It's usually a friendly competition and like any competition, the goal is to win. Sure, i will be nice and sometimes let my 5 year old daughter win games that we play. Yes, with all the whining, it does seem like we have a bunch of children here, but i honestly do not believe this is the case. Adults, young adults, and teens can, and should be prepared to compete for a ftf if they want it. Being "nice" or not, i just don't understand how it would be satisfying to anyone when they were handed one.

When our bigger FTFers left town for a 2 day trip, lots of caches were published- that was basically handing

us FTFs- It's about timing

[+cerberus1]

" Gc.com doesn't sanction or care for the ftf game."

- Really?

 

Instant Notifications. Be In the Know.

 

Get alerts for new cache placements.

"Is going out in the middle of the night to be the first to find a new cache crazy? Sure it is. Yet it can make geocaching even more fun and exhilarating! Geocaching Premium Members can sign up to receive Instant Notifications about new caches in an area, giving them an advantage when it comes to being first to find (FTF). "

Be a Premium Member link

 

- So it's possible they don't sanction or care for it, but realize it's how some like to play.

[+WarNinjas]

I just found a challenge cache that you need to log the cache on the day it was first found but not be the FTF or claim the FTF. This way if you show up for a new cache and are second or third to find you still win as you need 10 to log the cache! Kind of cool!

-WarNinjas

[+fizzymagic]

Being "nice" or not, i just don't understand how it would be satisfying to anyone when they were handed one.

 

Oh, give me a break. All this chest-thumping about "earning" FTFs is pathetic. Does it really give you a feeling of pride to beat a 7-year-old to be the first to lift a lamp-post skirt?

 

I mean, seriously, who over the age of about 10 thinks it is an "accomplishment" to be first to grab a lame urban hide? And who over the age of 10 would think it cool to splash their FTF "achievements" all over their profile page?

 

Get real, folks. Racing to get to that cache before the 10-year-olds on their bicycles have a chance is not "earning" anything. It's pathetic.

 

Having your FTF stats all over your profile page, talking seriously about "earning" FTFs, and the like are all evidence that you are taking it way too seriously.

 

Letting a child have the joy of signing an empty log is not "handing" or "giving" them anything of particular value; the problem is with the adults that give that empty log a value that is ridiculously inflated in a pathetic attempt to prop up their own egos. If making them compete is teaching them anything, it is teaching them to have twisted priorities and to place competition for meaningless achievements above working to do something valuable in the world.

 

Grow up, people.

[+The_Incredibles_]

I can only speak for my area, but I have never passed a 10 year old riding a bicycle holding a GPS on the way to a FTF.

 

Usually I don't see anybody else when I go for a FTF, but on the occasions I have, it's been all adults.

 

As for whether or not adults should be allowed to go out and have fun and get excited about it...I say YES! I'm not working right now, but in my last job, I cared for folks with serious health problems and some on their death beds too. If after a hard days' work I find it fun to rush out and grab a magnetic keyholder under a lamp post skirt, then that's my business and nobody should be calling me pathetic for enjoying myself.

[+maxx borchovski]

I now have one FTF, it was published on Christmas eve at close to midnight. I beat our local FTF hounds to GZ and claimed my prize. Now I have one, I understand the rush you get from 'beating' the competition to new caches, but I also like the warmth and dryness of my home. So in the grand scheme of things the FTF game matters to some people and good luck to them. I personally don't have the dedication needed to go out there in all weather and at silly o'clock at night for the FTF.

 

I will still consider FTFs in the summer, I will still offer my blood to the blood bank, I'll still help my elderly neighbors and donate what I can, when I can. FTF doesnt make you a bad person, just keen to play a game.

[+oxford comma]

I would only consider trying for a FTF

if I was donating blood while helping an old lady cross the street during a canned food drive . but only during the summertime.

 

I know I have at least one FTF, maybe two. could be three. I don't remember. my 4 year old gets really excited. she'll ask me " ARE WE THE FIRST ones to find this?" and I'll say no, But we ARE the first to find it this month!"

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I would only consider trying for a FTF

if I was donating blood while helping an old lady cross the street during a canned food drive . but only during the summertime.

 

In some parts of the U.S. you're not allowed to go after a FTF unless you have a "Save the Whales" bumper sticker on your vehicle.

 

I know I have at least one FTF, maybe two. could be three. I don't remember. my 4 year old gets really excited. she'll ask me " ARE WE THE FIRST ones to find this?" and I'll say no, But we ARE the first to find it this month!"

 

I found 5 caches on Sunday. Not only were they the first caches I found this year, I was the first person to find them in 2013.

[+uxorious]

Being "nice" or not, i just don't understand how it would be satisfying to anyone when they were handed one.

 

Oh, give me a break. All this chest-thumping about "earning" FTFs is pathetic. Does it really give you a feeling of pride to beat a 7-year-old to be the first to lift a lamp-post skirt?

 

I mean, seriously, who over the age of about 10 thinks it is an "accomplishment" to be first to grab a lame urban hide? And who over the age of 10 would think it cool to splash their FTF "achievements" all over their profile page?

 

Get real, folks. Racing to get to that cache before the 10-year-olds on their bicycles have a chance is not "earning" anything. It's pathetic.

 

Having your FTF stats all over your profile page, talking seriously about "earning" FTFs, and the like are all evidence that you are taking it way too seriously.

 

Letting a child have the joy of signing an empty log is not "handing" or "giving" them anything of particular value; the problem is with the adults that give that empty log a value that is ridiculously inflated in a pathetic attempt to prop up their own egos. If making them compete is teaching them anything, it is teaching them to have twisted priorities and to place competition for meaningless achievements above working to do something valuable in the world.

 

Grow up, people.

 

The one who is pathetic and needs to "grow up", is the one who puts down what someone else enjoys.

 

I don't do the FTF thing, I am not really interested. I know some people who are, and good for them.

 

I also can't understand the idea of knocking a little white ball around a large grassy park, but I have a ton of friends who like it.

 

I watch football on the weekends, my brother thinks it is a waste of time.

 

Making children compete should be a part of growing up. We have a ton of people these days that feel intitled to everything, because everything was given to them when they were children.

 

Competition for meaningless achievements is a very human thing to do. I will bet there is something in your life others would find meaningless also.

[+niraD]

In some parts of the U.S. you're not allowed to go after a FTF unless you have a "Save the Whales" bumper sticker on your vehicle.

"SAVE the Whales"?

 

I thought it was "SHAVE the Whales". No wonder I haven't gotten any FTFs recently...

[+hzoi]

I think the main difference is, no one "needs" a FTF. (Except apparently the children of helicopter parents.)

 

In some parts of the U.S. you're not allowed to go after a FTF unless you have a "Save the Whales" bumper sticker on your vehicle.

"SAVE the Whales"?

 

I thought it was "SHAVE the Whales". No wonder I haven't gotten any FTFs recently...

 

No, it's definitely save the whales. Whale meat is delicious. How are we going to keep eating it if there aren't any left?

[+bflentje]

Being "nice" or not, i just don't understand how it would be satisfying to anyone when they were handed one.

 

Oh, give me a break. All this chest-thumping about "earning" FTFs is pathetic. Does it really give you a feeling of pride to beat a 7-year-old to be the first to lift a lamp-post skirt?

 

I mean, seriously, who over the age of about 10 thinks it is an "accomplishment" to be first to grab a lame urban hide? And who over the age of 10 would think it cool to splash their FTF "achievements" all over their profile page?

 

Get real, folks. Racing to get to that cache before the 10-year-olds on their bicycles have a chance is not "earning" anything. It's pathetic.

 

Having your FTF stats all over your profile page, talking seriously about "earning" FTFs, and the like are all evidence that you are taking it way too seriously.

 

Letting a child have the joy of signing an empty log is not "handing" or "giving" them anything of particular value; the problem is with the adults that give that empty log a value that is ridiculously inflated in a pathetic attempt to prop up their own egos. If making them compete is teaching them anything, it is teaching them to have twisted priorities and to place competition for meaningless achievements above working to do something valuable in the world.

 

Grow up, people.

 

I think the anti-FTF rants are just as pathetic or worse than the rants for FTF, and your post proves it for me.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Being "nice" or not, i just don't understand how it would be satisfying to anyone when they were handed one.

 

Oh, give me a break. All this chest-thumping about "earning" FTFs is pathetic. Does it really give you a feeling of pride to beat a 7-year-old to be the first to lift a lamp-post skirt?

 

I mean, seriously, who over the age of about 10 thinks it is an "accomplishment" to be first to grab a lame urban hide? And who over the age of 10 would think it cool to splash their FTF "achievements" all over their profile page?

 

Get real, folks. Racing to get to that cache before the 10-year-olds on their bicycles have a chance is not "earning" anything. It's pathetic.

 

Having your FTF stats all over your profile page, talking seriously about "earning" FTFs, and the like are all evidence that you are taking it way too seriously.

 

Letting a child have the joy of signing an empty log is not "handing" or "giving" them anything of particular value; the problem is with the adults that give that empty log a value that is ridiculously inflated in a pathetic attempt to prop up their own egos. If making them compete is teaching them anything, it is teaching them to have twisted priorities and to place competition for meaningless achievements above working to do something valuable in the world.

 

Grow up, people.

 

I think the anti-FTF rants are just as pathetic or worse than the rants for FTF, and your post proves it for me.

 

I don't think I've seen an anti-FTF rant. What I do see are anti-obnoxious-behavior-by-self-absorbed-geocachers-that-insist-on-doing-whatever-it-takes-to-be-FTF-on-every-cache-then-bragging-about-it rants.

Edited January 22, 2013 by NYPaddleCacher

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I think the main difference is, no one "needs" a FTF. (Except apparently the children of helicopter parents.)

 

In some parts of the U.S. you're not allowed to go after a FTF unless you have a "Save the Whales" bumper sticker on your vehicle.

"SAVE the Whales"?

 

I thought it was "SHAVE the Whales". No wonder I haven't gotten any FTFs recently...

 

No, it's definitely save the whales. Whale meat is delicious. How are we going to keep eating it if there aren't any left?

 

I used to have a comedy album that had a fake radio commercial about whale flatulence. The tag line (with sound effects) was, "Save the whales...before they blast themselves into extinction".

[+maxx borchovski]

I think this is one topic where the three different camps will have to agree to disagree. It's a fun game after all and we can make of it what we want. There is no right or wrong answer in the FTF 'game' apart from if you find a blank log then you are the first person to find it.

It's the same as urban caches versus countryside caches, both types have their place. Ammo cans versus nanos, both are valid. 5 mile hike to a beautiful view and a single cache, or a 10 mile power trail. Its a game that we are free to enjoy however we want. If an aspect of it doesn't appeal, then set your PQs to ignore it.

[+dprovan]

I don't think I've seen an anti-FTF rant. What I do see are anti-obnoxious-behavior-by-self-absorbed-geocachers-that-insist-on-doing-whatever-it-takes-to-be-FTF-on-every-cache-then-bragging-about-it rants.

I didn't see a post that looked anything like that for fizzymagic to be responding to. In fact, I've never actually seen such behavior by any cacher at any time.

[+fizzymagic]

The one who is pathetic and needs to "grow up", is the one who puts down what someone else enjoys.

 

I don't do the FTF thing, I am not really interested. I know some people who are, and good for them.

 

I also can't understand the idea of knocking a little white ball around a large grassy park, but I have a ton of friends who like it.

 

I watch football on the weekends, my brother thinks it is a waste of time.

 

I guess I was not clear enough. The FTF game is fine. Running to be first to a cache is fine if that's what floats your boat.

 

What is NOT fine is taking it way too seriously. Insisting that if kids want an FTF they have to "earn" it. Posting obnoxious FTF logs. Plastering your profile with your FTF accomplishments and bragging about them. Coming into the forums with grievances about who "deserves" FTF for a particular cache.

 

Those things are not fine.

 

Just like in golf. Hitting a little white ball to a hole in the ground is fine. Making it the center of your life and hanging your self-esteem on it, not so much.

[+The_Incredibles_]

You know what's fine? Everybody playing the game they want to...and people discussing differences in opinion without the need for put-downs or insults.

[+oxford comma]

I've had quite a few FTFs - fifth to find.... fourth..... fiftieth.... you get the idea. my daughter likes the swag. we try for new(er) caches in hopes that she will find something cool.

[+Don_J]

You know what's fine? Everybody playing the game they want to...and people discussing differences in opinion without the need for put-downs or insults.

 

I don't know. Somewhere in these 300+ posts, I said that I saw nothing wrong with laying back a bit so some kid could get a FTF. I thought I was just being kind and trying to pass the fun around. Instead, I was basically accused of being a liberal that wanted to distribute welfare to our children. That was very insulting.

 

I completely understand Fizzy's "rant". The way that some people talk about getting a FTF reminds me of some guy who sacks the quarterback during a touch football game.

[+WarNinjas]

So I am taking it you all would not want to see our pin we drop in the caches that they will fit in that say "WarNinjas were the FTF!" We are not at all wanting to take the FTF from anyone and have sometimes waited around to see if anyone else was coming along so we could Co-FTF it with them if they were coming to also try and get the FTF. We try to post it ASAP as not to waste any ones time going for it only to find our signature on it. In this area there are many FTF hounds. We just find it fun to see the email and try and go for it when possible. Most times it is not possible but is a fun little side game to play to keep it interesting. If it was not for added fun like going for FTF's and keeping up the streak I could see loosing interest in the game at some point. We place a lot of caches and are bummed when another cacher gives up the streak or wanting to go for the FTF as that keeps it fun as a hider as well. One of our favorite cachers finished his streak and no longer goes out for our caches quickly or even finds them at all if not for the FTF chance.

That being said it should also just be a fun thing that is not taken so seriously. I heard of one instance where a cacher FTF a cache at a park and it said it was closed at night. The FTF got it while it was still dark in the morning. The next to find argued that he was the FTF because he found it in the light and the other one cheated by finding it in the dark. Now stuff like that is taking it to the extreme.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

You know what's fine? Everybody playing the game they want to...and people discussing differences in opinion without the need for put-downs or insults.

 

You know else is fine? Admitting that how you (the general you) play the game could potentially have a negative impact on how others play the game and actually be willing to put "what's good for the game and what's good for the geocaching community" before the self-gratification of being first to find every cache.

[+Roman!]

Being "nice" or not, i just don't understand how it would be satisfying to anyone when they were handed one.

 

Oh, give me a break. All this chest-thumping about "earning" FTFs is pathetic. Does it really give you a feeling of pride to beat a 7-year-old to be the first to lift a lamp-post skirt?

 

I mean, seriously, who over the age of about 10 thinks it is an "accomplishment" to be first to grab a lame urban hide? And who over the age of 10 would think it cool to splash their FTF "achievements" all over their profile page?

 

Get real, folks. Racing to get to that cache before the 10-year-olds on their bicycles have a chance is not "earning" anything. It's pathetic.

 

Having your FTF stats all over your profile page, talking seriously about "earning" FTFs, and the like are all evidence that you are taking it way too seriously.

 

Letting a child have the joy of signing an empty log is not "handing" or "giving" them anything of particular value; the problem is with the adults that give that empty log a value that is ridiculously inflated in a pathetic attempt to prop up their own egos. If making them compete is teaching them anything, it is teaching them to have twisted priorities and to place competition for meaningless achievements above working to do something valuable in the world.

 

Grow up, people.

 

I think the anti-FTF rants are just as pathetic or worse than the rants for FTF, and your post proves it for me.

 

I don't think I've seen an anti-FTF rant. What I do see are anti-obnoxious-behavior-by-self-absorbed-geocachers-that-insist-on-doing-whatever-it-takes-to-be-FTF-on-every-cache-then-bragging-about-it rants.

 

If I recall correctly I remember you bragging about your FTF not in one, but in multiple threads.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Being "nice" or not, i just don't understand how it would be satisfying to anyone when they were handed one.

 

Oh, give me a break. All this chest-thumping about "earning" FTFs is pathetic. Does it really give you a feeling of pride to beat a 7-year-old to be the first to lift a lamp-post skirt?

 

I mean, seriously, who over the age of about 10 thinks it is an "accomplishment" to be first to grab a lame urban hide? And who over the age of 10 would think it cool to splash their FTF "achievements" all over their profile page?

 

Get real, folks. Racing to get to that cache before the 10-year-olds on their bicycles have a chance is not "earning" anything. It's pathetic.

 

Having your FTF stats all over your profile page, talking seriously about "earning" FTFs, and the like are all evidence that you are taking it way too seriously.

 

Letting a child have the joy of signing an empty log is not "handing" or "giving" them anything of particular value; the problem is with the adults that give that empty log a value that is ridiculously inflated in a pathetic attempt to prop up their own egos. If making them compete is teaching them anything, it is teaching them to have twisted priorities and to place competition for meaningless achievements above working to do something valuable in the world.

 

Grow up, people.

 

I think the anti-FTF rants are just as pathetic or worse than the rants for FTF, and your post proves it for me.

 

I don't think I've seen an anti-FTF rant. What I do see are anti-obnoxious-behavior-by-self-absorbed-geocachers-that-insist-on-doing-whatever-it-takes-to-be-FTF-on-every-cache-then-bragging-about-it rants.

 

If I recall correctly I remember you bragging about your FTF not in one, but in multiple threads.

 

You must be using a definition of bragging that I am not familiar with. In at least one of the threads that I mentioned that single FTF, it was a thread specifically about getting a FTF far from home and I specifically said that it was not the furthest FTF from ones home location.

[4wheelin_fool]

If you use the acronym "FTF" at all in a log, or casually mention a FTF in a discussion, it is characterized as bragging, even if the FTF was accidental. The only way to avoid being called a braggart is to not use the acronym and don't mention anything about being first.

[+Roman!]

Being "nice" or not, i just don't understand how it would be satisfying to anyone when they were handed one.

 

Oh, give me a break. All this chest-thumping about "earning" FTFs is pathetic. Does it really give you a feeling of pride to beat a 7-year-old to be the first to lift a lamp-post skirt?

 

I mean, seriously, who over the age of about 10 thinks it is an "accomplishment" to be first to grab a lame urban hide? And who over the age of 10 would think it cool to splash their FTF "achievements" all over their profile page?

 

Get real, folks. Racing to get to that cache before the 10-year-olds on their bicycles have a chance is not "earning" anything. It's pathetic.

 

Having your FTF stats all over your profile page, talking seriously about "earning" FTFs, and the like are all evidence that you are taking it way too seriously.

 

Letting a child have the joy of signing an empty log is not "handing" or "giving" them anything of particular value; the problem is with the adults that give that empty log a value that is ridiculously inflated in a pathetic attempt to prop up their own egos. If making them compete is teaching them anything, it is teaching them to have twisted priorities and to place competition for meaningless achievements above working to do something valuable in the world.

 

Grow up, people.

 

I think the anti-FTF rants are just as pathetic or worse than the rants for FTF, and your post proves it for me.

 

I don't think I've seen an anti-FTF rant. What I do see are anti-obnoxious-behavior-by-self-absorbed-geocachers-that-insist-on-doing-whatever-it-takes-to-be-FTF-on-every-cache-then-bragging-about-it rants.

 

If I recall correctly I remember you bragging about your FTF not in one, but in multiple threads.

 

You must be using a definition of bragging that I am not familiar with. In at least one of the threads that I mentioned that single FTF, it was a thread specifically about getting a FTF far from home and I specifically said that it was not the furthest FTF from ones home location.

 

That's fine but when you start to bring it up in multiple threads then it starts to sound like bragging.

[+Don_J]

If you use the acronym "FTF" at all in a log, or casually mention a FTF in a discussion, it is characterized as bragging, even if the FTF was accidental. The only way to avoid being called a braggart is to not use the acronym and don't mention anything about being first.

 

I know that when I'm hiking with friends and we are approaching a cache and they ask me, "have you found it"? I stand up tall, start beating my chest and I do a "George of the Jungle" call and then loudly announce, "Not only have I found it, I was FTF".

 

But, I don't like to brag...

[+Roman!]

If you use the acronym "FTF" at all in a log, or casually mention a FTF in a discussion, it is characterized as bragging, even if the FTF was accidental. The only way to avoid being called a braggart is to not use the acronym and don't mention anything about being first.

 

How about mentioning it in several threads and even starting your own thread on your FTF?

[+NeverSummer]

If you use the acronym "FTF" at all in a log, or casually mention a FTF in a discussion, it is characterized as bragging, even if the FTF was accidental. The only way to avoid being called a braggart is to not use the acronym and don't mention anything about being first.

 

How about mentioning it in several threads and even starting your own thread on your FTF?

Take your issue with NYPaddleCacher outside, please.

[4wheelin_fool]

If you use the acronym "FTF" at all in a log, or casually mention a FTF in a discussion, it is characterized as bragging, even if the FTF was accidental. The only way to avoid being called a braggart is to not use the acronym and don't mention anything about being first.

 

How about mentioning it in several threads and even starting your own thread on your FTF?

 

I don't know about that. However, my girlfriend frequently runs out for FTF, and has gotten quite a few on difficult ones over the years, especially on puzzles and difficult terrain, but as far as I know she has never used the acronym FTF in her logs because she considers it bragging. I think it's silly, but it appears to be true from what I read here.

[+Don_J]

If you use the acronym "FTF" at all in a log, or casually mention a FTF in a discussion, it is characterized as bragging, even if the FTF was accidental. The only way to avoid being called a braggart is to not use the acronym and don't mention anything about being first.

 

How about mentioning it in several threads and even starting your own thread on your FTF?

 

I don't know about that. However, my girlfriend frequently runs out for FTF, and has gotten quite a few on difficult ones over the years, especially on puzzles and difficult terrain, but as far as I know she has never used the acronym FTF in her logs because she considers it bragging. I think it's silly, but it appears to be true from what I read here.

 

:) FTF :)

 

I put that in every one of my FTF logs. It's a statement of fact. I was FTF and I was happy. I don't see it as bragging at all. It's also easy to search my logs for that specific string in GSAK.

 

"FTF, in your face cacher A and cache B. I beat your sorry butts again. In your face losers". I've actually seen that in a log and I don't believe that it was in a friendly way.

 

Anyone who thinks that the two are the same is probably just as obsessed with being anti-FTF as those obsessed FTF people.

[+Don_J]

Another common one is:

 

"FTF! This is my 1364th FTF and the 126th consecutive day with a FTF, and my 625th consecutive day with a find"

 

That's is. Nothing about the cache, nothing about the adventure. Not even a thank you to the cacher that placed the cache that made that all possible. It's all about me, me, me... Look at me... look what I've done.

 

Those are the types of logs that really put me off.

[+dprovan]

"FTF, in your face cacher A and cache B. I beat your sorry butts again. In your face losers". I've actually seen that in a log and I don't believe that it was in a friendly way.

If I saw a log that called out 2 other cachers by name like that, I'd assume it was specifically because they were friends. I suppose that might be my problem: since I'm never mean, I don't recognize it when other people are trying to be mean. Or maybe that's not a problem...

[+Mudfrog]

Being "nice" or not, i just don't understand how it would be satisfying to anyone when they were handed one.

 

Oh, give me a break. All this chest-thumping about "earning" FTFs is pathetic. Does it really give you a feeling of pride to beat a 7-year-old to be the first to lift a lamp-post skirt?

 

I mean, seriously, who over the age of about 10 thinks it is an "accomplishment" to be first to grab a lame urban hide? And who over the age of 10 would think it cool to splash their FTF "achievements" all over their profile page?

 

Get real, folks. Racing to get to that cache before the 10-year-olds on their bicycles have a chance is not "earning" anything. It's pathetic.

 

Having your FTF stats all over your profile page, talking seriously about "earning" FTFs, and the like are all evidence that you are taking it way too seriously.

 

Letting a child have the joy of signing an empty log is not "handing" or "giving" them anything of particular value; the problem is with the adults that give that empty log a value that is ridiculously inflated in a pathetic attempt to prop up their own egos. If making them compete is teaching them anything, it is teaching them to have twisted priorities and to place competition for meaningless achievements above working to do something valuable in the world.

 

Grow up, people.

 

WOW! I take it that you don't care for the ftf competition.

 

Not sure where you get chest thumping, at least from my post. Like any game on this earth, there is usually a goal to try and win. Checkers, solitaire, poker, baseball, being ftf, etc, etc,,,. They all have the same goal. Yes we sometimes sit back and let someone else win (children come to mind) but the goal for most who play any of these is to win. The win doesn't amount to a hill of beans but it is fun, and satisfying, at times. I stand by my comment that you quoted!

 

To set the record straight, i rarely go for ftfs these days. But if i did, and if i really thought 10 year olds were going for ftfs, then i would probably step back on a few. You have adults complaining in this thread though and that is another story. I don't buy into the any of your last paragraph. All people, children too, need to know that not everything is free and given to them. Unfortunately, that's not what's being taught in our society today. Entitlement is up, pride is down.

 

One thing i agree with you on is that there are braggarts out there. But, just because i want to play a game and win when i play, doesn't automatically make me a braggart. Like you, i too do not like to see or hear bragging.