FTF Hogs

[+fizzymagic]

If nobody engaged in a FTF race when a new cache was publish I would suggest that the total number of laws broken would be less.

 

You are correct. The appropriate metric would be laws broken per log, not per cache.

 

But this entire discussion is silly anyway. The tendency of FTF hounds to break laws is by no means the only negative consequence of the hyper-competitive version of the FTF side game. Shifting the discussion to focus on it as though that were the only reason to dislike it is another fallacy called "moving the goalposts."

 

Nobody is calling for the FTF game to be banned. That is impossible and would not be appropriate in any case. What I would prefer instead is that those hyper-competitive FTF hounds recognize the damage they are doing to the game and alter their behavior accordingly. That would include, but not be limited to, making it clear that breaking the law in pursuit of an FTF is viewed by the geocaching community as unacceptable.

 

That result is unlikely, as in my experience such people tend to be entitled and not very self-reflective. So the only possible positive outcome of this discussion would be to dissuade new geocachers from playing the game like jerks.

 

But this discussion has degenerated to the point where the only thing that the participants are doing is embarrassing themselves. Me included. So it's time to let it go, IMO.

[+NeverSummer]

Nobody is calling for the FTF game to be banned. That is impossible and would not be appropriate in any case. What I would prefer instead is that those hyper-competitive FTF hounds recognize the damage they are doing to the game and alter their behavior accordingly. That would include, but not be limited to, making it clear that breaking the law in pursuit of an FTF is viewed by the geocaching community as unacceptable.

 

That result is unlikely, as in my experience such people tend to be entitled and not very self-reflective. So the only possible positive outcome of this discussion would be to dissuade new geocachers from playing the game like jerks.

If cache owners were also part of the process, we might see different behavior. Meaning, if an owner regularly maintains their caches, they would know pretty quickly if their cache was causing a disturbance to the surrounding area, or if laws were being broken. But, as I've started to see more and more, cache owners are placing as many as they want, without much consideration about how they will maintain them.

 

I remember being asked by reviewers how I was going to maintain a cache that was 40 miles from my home coords. Now, I commonly see caches published where an owner is "not from around these parts". Without getting too far off topic, I agree with what you and NYPaddleCacher are saying. In addition, owners have a responsibility to maintain their cache, cache page listing, and report/edit/update as needed to keep their cache from causing damage or a detriment to the game.

[knowschad]

I call for the FTF game to be banned.

[+Roman!]

I call for the FTF game to be banned.

 

Yah right, then who will everyone on the forum blame for the evils of Geocaching?

 

At least now you all have a common antagonist, take that away and you'll all end up killing each other.

[knowschad]

I call for the FTF game to be banned.

 

Yah right, then who will everyone on the forum blame for the evils of Geocaching?

 

At least now you all have a common antagonist, take that away and you'll all end up killing each other.

 

Sorry, but I had to do it. I'm sure you can understand.

 

Nobody is calling for the FTF game to be banned.

[+Roman!]

I call for the FTF game to be banned.

 

Yah right, then who will everyone on the forum blame for the evils of Geocaching?

 

At least now you all have a common antagonist, take that away and you'll all end up killing each other.

 

Sorry, but I had to do it. I'm sure you can understand.

 

 

I expected nothing less, I'm surprised we got to page 6.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I call for the FTF game to be banned.

 

Yah right, then who will everyone on the forum blame for the evils of Geocaching?

 

 

Snoogans.

[+dprovan]

You're still missing the point and comparing apples to oranges. If a cache is found 100 times, and the first five finds are made by FTF hounds, there would be 95 additional finders that are *not* in a race to get FTF. Suppose, just for the sake of argument that four out of five of the FTF hounds break the speed limit when attempting to get FTF.

I guess we must be talking about different things. I didn't realize this was such a problem elsewhere. Around here, there's typically just one person that FTFs a cache, and there's been maybe one or two times I've seen something where I might suspect a law had been broken, typically going into a park after hours, elbowing past all the dog walkers and teenagers also going into that park after hours.

 

Once a FTF has occurred, and has been claimed by whoever got it, the incentive to get there before someone else is gone, thus it's unlikely that the next 95 finders will break the speed limit unless they are pre-disposed to speed anyway.

I claim that FTFers that break the speed limit are also pre-disposed to speed anyway. Why does that argument work for you but not for me?

 

That may very well result in more broken laws total among the 95 people not involved in the FTF race, but what I am contending is that the number of laws broken per cacher may be higher for those engaged in the FTF race. If nobody engaged in a FTF race when a new cache was publish I would suggest that the total number of laws broken would be less.

But if we stopped geocaching altogether, the total number of laws broken would be even less. More than twice as much less, I'm contending. Why does that argument work for anti-FTF preaching but not anti-geocaching?

 

You're blaming the 99% of all FTFers that don't break the law for the 1% of all cachers that do break the law. I think you should focus on the people doing something wrong instead of the people playing a game legally, whether that game is FTFing or geocaching.

 

The appropriate metric would be laws broken per log, not per cache.

How convenient that this arbitrary choice of metric favors your argument.

 

But this entire discussion is silly anyway. The tendency of FTF hounds to break laws is by no means the only negative consequence of the hyper-competitive version of the FTF side game. Shifting the discussion to focus on it as though that were the only reason to dislike it is another fallacy called "moving the goalposts."

I'm not clear how arguing against a stated objection can be considered moving the goalposts.

 

Nobody is calling for the FTF game to be banned.

Not entirely clear that NYPaddleCacher wouldn't call for a ban if he thought he could, but in any case, he is calling for everyone to stop playing it, so the difference doesn't seem very important in this context.

 

What I would prefer instead is that those hyper-competitive FTF hounds recognize the damage they are doing to the game and alter their behavior accordingly.

I guess you need to teach me how to identify those hyper-competitive FTF hounds so I can properly vilify them. So are you saying it's OK to be an FTF hound as long as I'm not hyper-competitive?

 

That would include, but not be limited to, making it clear that breaking the law in pursuit of an FTF is viewed by the geocaching community as unacceptable.

First, this solves only half the problem. Second, this turns an important discussion of the damage done by breaking laws while geocaching into this argument here about whether FTF is good or bad which, as you yourself have now repeatedly told us, is pointless. Make it clear that breaking the law in pursuit of any cache is unacceptable. Feel free that FTFing is no excuse, and even makes it worse, if you want to. But deal with the problem, don't use the problem to pick on your pet peeve.

[+fizzymagic]

Once a FTF has occurred, and has been claimed by whoever got it, the incentive to get there before someone else is gone, thus it's unlikely that the next 95 finders will break the speed limit unless they are pre-disposed to speed anyway.

I claim that FTFers that break the speed limit are also pre-disposed to speed anyway. Why does that argument work for you but not for me?

 

You are claiming that the FTF race does not provide an additional incentive to speed? Wow. Evidence that the FTF race provides an incentive to break laws has been posted again and again. Yet you claim the contrary. Do you have any evidence to back up your opinion?

 

What I would prefer instead is that those hyper-competitive FTF hounds recognize the damage they are doing to the game and alter their behavior accordingly.

I guess you need to teach me how to identify those hyper-competitive FTF hounds so I can properly vilify them. So are you saying it's OK to be an FTF hound as long as I'm not hyper-competitive?

 

Yes, IMO it is perfectly fine to enjoy finding FTFs as long as one does it appropriately. I don't know what is so complicated about that. Breaking laws to reach the cache first, leaving taunting and obnoxious logs about your FTFs, posting publicly-visible FTF bookmark lists, etc. are not appropriate. Those are the signs of hyper-competitive FTF hounds.

 

As I wrote before, I think you are a reasonable guy, who for some reason has let this topic become more than it is. So I will let it go.

[+Sharks-N-Beans]

I guess you need to teach me how to identify those hyper-competitive FTF hounds so I can properly vilify them.

 

Everyone knows that one cannot be a hyper-competitive FTF hound without official GC FTF Performance Gear

[+dprovan]

Breaking laws to reach the cache first, leaving taunting and obnoxious logs about your FTFs, posting publicly-visible FTF bookmark lists, etc. are not appropriate. Those are the signs of hyper-competitive FTF hounds.

OK, I guess we are talking about different things, then. I've seen a handful FTF logs anything like that, and half of those seemed obviously tongue in cheek. I'll leave you guys to crush that behavior while I take on the relatively simpler task of discouraging geocachers from breaking laws.

[+DragonsWest]

I wonder what I am.

 

I've probably made about 100 First to Finds, but I generally make no mention of it, unless there was something particularly notable about the experience. Possibly I am leaving some people guessing, when I post my logs (often in the evening), of the first few finders which was first, as my log entry will make no mention.

 

I have, on occasion poked a little fun at a local FTF hound, but suggesting my utter confusion on how to sign a blank log, which end to start at, which to put first (name or date) because there's no guidance of previous finders to follow. Reeling from the confusion I somehow muster through it. I think that's kinda fun.

 

Other than that, it's pretty much just another find to me. The need to be first isn't paramount.

[+bflentje]

I call for the FTF game to be banned.

 

Sorry pal, you get an . But I'd still cache with you any day of the week.

[+bflentje]

You are claiming that the FTF race does not provide an additional incentive to speed? Wow. Evidence that the FTF race provides an incentive to break laws has been posted again and again. Yet you claim the contrary. Do you have any evidence to back up your opinion?

 

I admit that I sped on the way to find the world's oldest active geocache (Mingo). And I was finder #768. Sooo...

Edited December 13, 2012 by bflentje

[+uxorious]

I call for the FTF game to be banned.

 

You can't ban something that doesn't exist, (except in the minds of a few fringe players).

[+Roman!]

You are claiming that the FTF race does not provide an additional incentive to speed? Wow. Evidence that the FTF race provides an incentive to break laws has been posted again and again. Yet you claim the contrary. Do you have any evidence to back up your opinion?

 

I admit that I sped on the way to find the world's oldest active geocache (Mingo). And I was finder #768. Sooo...

 

I did a u-turn because I passed a parking spot for an event I was late for yesterday, I also spent the whole day caching with a burnt out turn signal.

[+Dan2099]

A team created 8 new caches last summer and as soon as they were posted I went for one in the pouring rain deep in the woods without my gps just my phone to get my first FTF, I could have gotten the others but I figured share the wealth, that's probably what the co's wanted. Also they are in a pretty remote setting so it might lure cachers in that otherwise would have skipped the area.

[+NeverSummer]

A team created 8 new caches last summer and as soon as they were posted I went for one in the pouring rain deep in the woods without my gps just my phone to get my first FTF, I could have gotten the others but I figured share the wealth, that's probably what the co's wanted. Also they are in a pretty remote setting so it might lure cachers in that otherwise would have skipped the area.

Very kind of you to "share the wealth" with others who might consider a FTF race important to their geocaching experience. Commendable.

 

However, I think most people place caches to be found more than just once after it is published. I like find #100+ on my caches more than I care about a FTF being spread among the FTF racers.

[+K13]

However, I think most people place caches to be found more than just once after it is published. I like find #100+ on my caches more than I care about a FTF being spread among the FTF racers.

 

+1

 

Instead of "run out and get one", I'd rather "walk out and get them all".

[+Roman!]

However, I think most people place caches to be found more than just once after it is published. I like find #100+ on my caches more than I care about a FTF being spread among the FTF racers.

 

+1

 

Instead of "run out and get one", I'd rather "walk out and get them all".

 

I'd run out and get them all, after all I would not want to deny the CO the joy of his caches being found.

[+DragonsWest]

I had a first to find this morning. I didn't mean too!

[+cerberus1]

I had a first to find this morning. I didn't mean too!

I got one yesterday.

Two new hides came out in a new, not-yet-finished huge park.

Finished chores and headed out to investigate, since we did a major CITO in this area a few years prior and wanted to see how it's coming along.

Car in lot. Cool. I'm looking things over and maybe get to chat with another cacher.

I hit the one (FTF) after bushwacking a bit off an unfinished trail.

Got to the other and there's a sig on it. Didn't bump into anybody and the car was gone when I was done taking pics of the place.

Log in late in the evening to find the other cacher didn't go after the other, less than .13 away.

Only thing I can come up with is they were in such a hurry for that FTF, that they never noticed the other came out two minutes later.

[+jellis]

I call for the FTF game to be banned.

If we ban FTFs then no one will be able to find a cache. Or maybe do it in large groups only

[+WarNinjas]

Someone has to find it first?

[+The_Incredibles_]

I had a first to find this morning. I didn't mean too!

 

Liar.

[+Team Gilo]

Those who get lots of FTF's are usually dedicated geocachers. A local cacher recently got 65 out of 110 FTF's but only by starting out at 2:30 am! (would have got them all if somone never started from the other direction. if your unable to be up at that sort of time, you might as well not worry about getting FTF

 

locally we say that STF is the new FTF

 

I agree...same opportunity for all...if you want in on the FTF then get off the couch or out of bed and go after them instead of complaining about someone else getting them all.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Team Gilo

[+maxx borchovski]

How can you ban first to find? Once the cache has been published, someone has to be the first to find it.

[+hzoi]

I had a first to find this morning. I didn't mean too!

 

Same for me last weekend. New TB hotel posted at 8:30 on a Saturday morning, right in the middle of town. I was still putting caches together and getting ready to roll out in a completely different direction, but I went ahead and added it to the list, because I'm a sucker for trackables and they tend to vanish too easily. Then I made pancakes for the wife and had breakfast. Then spent another half hour picking coins out of our old coin binder to release. I figured someone else would have stopped by in the hour and a half it took me to roll out there, especially since there were almost 20 trackables in there. I was pretty surprised to find a blank log. I did go ahead and log it from my phone on site, 'cause I hear that's the thing to do these days.

[+DragonsWest]

I call for the FTF game to be banned.

If we ban FTFs then no one will be able to find a cache. Or maybe do it in large groups only

 

If we ban FTFs then only FTFers will be banners and if you upset a Banner you know what that means!

 

 

I had a first to find this morning. I didn't mean too!

 

Liar.

 

Didn't mean or expect to! Struth! Just like the FTF I got on Wednesday morning - it was a newly published cache, about 30 miles from home, on the way in to work and an easy target for extending my streak. There are some very active FTF seekers in that area and beating them, twice, is quite a shock. I don't think I'll have much more opportunity. Two FTFs in such a short time span is making me woozy. Good thing I'm already sitting down. Such heights of ecstacy give me acrophobi!

[+gpsblake]

FTF finds are endorsed by Groundspeak, who has come up with all kinds of ways of notifying people immediately when a cache is available. Such things as a cellphone notification is proof of this. along with instant email alerts. Don't let Groundspeak tell you otherwise, they know it's part of the game and encourage it.

[+dprovan]

FTF finds are endorsed by Groundspeak, who has come up with all kinds of ways of notifying people immediately when a cache is available. Such things as a cellphone notification is proof of this. along with instant email alerts. Don't let Groundspeak tell you otherwise, they know it's part of the game and encourage it.

Groundspeak informs me of new caches in my area, a very useful and important feature that they'd provide even if there was no such thing as the FTF game.

[+DragonsWest]

My take on FTFs: Having one now and then is like getting the prize in the bottom of the cereal box. As long as everyone around the table gets a prize now and then everyone is happy. When one person at the table insists upon getting ALL the cereal prizes you lose harmony.

[+dprovan]

My take on FTFs: Having one now and then is like getting the prize in the bottom of the cereal box. As long as everyone around the table gets a prize now and then everyone is happy. When one person at the table insists upon getting ALL the cereal prizes you lose harmony.

I like this analogy. So when that one person insists on getting all the cereal prizes, what should we do? Insist that people stop enjoying the prize? Ask the company stop putting prizes in the box? Or do you say, "That's rude!" When this subject comes up, the people railing against FTFs seem to be doing the first two, but the last is the only one that strikes me as reasonable. I can talk to the hog. I can never get another prize if the company stops putting them in the box because some people somewhere are rude about it.

[+fizzymagic]

My take on FTFs: Having one now and then is like getting the prize in the bottom of the cereal box. As long as everyone around the table gets a prize now and then everyone is happy. When one person at the table insists upon getting ALL the cereal prizes you lose harmony.

I like this analogy. So when that one person insists on getting all the cereal prizes, what should we do? Insist that people stop enjoying the prize? Ask the company stop putting prizes in the box? Or do you say, "That's rude!" When this subject comes up, the people railing against FTFs seem to be doing the first two, but the last is the only one that strikes me as reasonable. I can talk to the hog. I can never get another prize if the company stops putting them in the box because some people somewhere are rude about it.

 

From what posts did you get the impression that people are in favor of the first two? I've never seen or heard anyone express a desire that FTFs not be available. Can you point me to any posts that express that point of view?

 

I think everyone that is (in your words) "against" FTFs is against the rude behaviors that result from an obsessive competition for them, not against them in principle.

[+Kiwi Nomad]

I haven't read all 6 pages of this thread or any of the other threads out the about how bad it is that some people are better than others at grabbing FTF.

 

Any way here is my 2c as a CO. I almost drive my husband nuts when I place a cache and have to *wait* for it to be published. Then it gets worse, it's published and I want it found now! and logged on-line now!

I double check the cache page and see if I have received an e-mail.

OH FOR GOODNESS SAKES WHY HASN'T ANYONE LOGGED A FIND YET!!! ANYONE!!!

[+dprovan]

From what posts did you get the impression that people are in favor of the first two? I've never seen or heard anyone express a desire that FTFs not be available. Can you point me to any posts that express that point of view?

I call for the FTF game to be banned.

But more generally, I don't understand how you can argue that FTF racing causes speeding without expecting me to think you're in favor of less FTF racing. If it was just the rude behavior you were against, I'd expect you to argue directly against the rude behavior and leave FTFing out of it, as I've been suggesting.

[+fizzymagic]

From what posts did you get the impression that people are in favor of the first two? I've never seen or heard anyone express a desire that FTFs not be available. Can you point me to any posts that express that point of view?

I call for the FTF game to be banned.

 

Um, that was a joke.

 

But more generally, I don't understand how you can argue that FTF racing causes speeding without expecting me to think you're in favor of less FTF racing. If it was just the rude behavior you were against, I'd expect you to argue directly against the rude behavior and leave FTFing out of it, as I've been suggesting.

 

Speeding falls under the category of "rude/inappropriate behavior." The point that I have been trying to make is that the FTF competition causes some people to engage in that behavior. I have never proposed any rule changes or other modification of the game; rather, I have consistently expressed my displeasure at the rude and inappropriate behaviors exhibited by some people who let the FTF competition get out of hand.

 

It is my opinion that the FTF competition has turned out, on balance, to be a bad thing for geocaching. I feel the same way about the "numbers" competition. But, human nature being what it is, there will always be some people who cannot enjoy an activity without the need to use it to try to prove they are "better" than others. My goal in these posts is simply to express my distaste for those peoples' behaviors. My hope would be that the geocaching community as a whole would adopt those values, but by no means do I wish to force them on anyone.

[+Markwell]

My take on FTFs: Having one now and then is like getting the prize in the bottom of the cereal box. As long as everyone around the table gets a prize now and then everyone is happy. When one person at the table insists upon getting ALL the cereal prizes you lose harmony.

I like this analogy. So when that one person insists on getting all the cereal prizes, what should we do? Insist that people stop enjoying the prize? Ask the company stop putting prizes in the box? Or do you say, "That's rude!" When this subject comes up, the people railing against FTFs seem to be doing the first two, but the last is the only one that strikes me as reasonable. I can talk to the hog. I can never get another prize if the company stops putting them in the box because some people somewhere are rude about it.

I'll extend the analogy. My kids used to go down the aisle of the store and want me to buy a $6 box of cereal they wouldn't normally eat, just because it had a 50¢ toy in it they thought was cool. Now my boys like ham and eggs, sausage and pancakes for breakfast. I can't tell you the last time I got a prize in a cereal box, and if I did, I certainly wouldn't care about it. My reaction would be "Look at that, there's a toy in here." I might examine it for a few seconds before putting it in the recycle bin. Some people still get all fired up about the prizes in the boxes of cereal, but I just don't see the appeal, and if my kids started arguing about the fact that Billy always got the prize, I'd stop buying that cereal in my house. That would be especially true, if my boys started breaking the rules of the house by getting up at 3 AM to rummage through the cereal boxes just to get the prize before their sibling.

 

I personally don't have any interests in the FTF game, but I usually won't be bothered by people that find something about it that motivates them to find a cache. However, when people start calling "foul" because one person always gets it, or people get the nickers in a twist because someone didn't play by their version of the rules of the game, or even worse when people break park rules and laws to be the first to find that's Not Good™. At that point it has crossed the line into a game where people aren't enjoying themselves, or are putting Geocaching in a bad enough light that park officials will ban the activity.

 

So I say it again...

 

The only winning move is not to play.

[+Tobias & Petronella]

I have not been following this thread so someone may have already tossed this idea out to the group.

 

The way to solve the FTF "Problem" is to have the CO claim the FTF on their own cache as they place it, so anyone that finds it after that is second.

 

The only downside is that for a short time there will be a rush on placing Film Canisters or just a zip-lock baggies with a logbook under rocks, in the bushes or under every lampskirt. But after an area hits 100% saturation everything will slow down.

 

Problem solved.

 

You're Welcome.

 

Tobias

[+The Jester]

I have not been following this thread so someone may have already tossed this idea out to the group.

 

The way to solve the FTF "Problem" is to have the CO claim the FTF on their own cache as they place it, so anyone that finds it after that is second.

 

The only downside is that for a short time there will be a rush on placing Film Canisters or just a zip-lock baggies with a logbook under rocks, in the bushes or under every lampskirt. But after an area hits 100% saturation everything will slow down.

 

Problem solved.

 

You're Welcome.

 

Tobias

So says the local "FTF Hog"!

 

It got me thinking, though. Maybe I'll start taking the new logbooks to the events, get someone to sign it, THEN put it in the cache. That way I can "control" who gets FTF on my caches - I can even put the notice on the page at publication...

[4wheelin_fool]

Breaking laws to reach the cache first, leaving taunting and obnoxious logs about your FTFs, posting publicly-visible FTF bookmark lists, etc. are not appropriate. Those are the signs of hyper-competitive FTF hounds.

OK, I guess we are talking about different things, then. I've seen a handful FTF logs anything like that, and half of those seemed obviously tongue in cheek. I'll leave you guys to crush that behavior while I take on the relatively simpler task of discouraging geocachers from breaking laws.

 

Every cache listed has a log from a FTFer. I checked several in the Livermore area of California, and I cannot find any that describes the behavior characterized by Fizzymagic. If it was that rampant, it would be noticeable on at least a few caches. I don't doubt that it happens, but the frequency is not anything to be alarmed about.

Edited December 24, 2012 by 4wheelin_fool

[+jellis]

I call for the FTF game to be banned.

If we ban FTFs then no one will be able to find a cache. Or maybe do it in large groups only

 

If we ban FTFs then only FTFers will be banners and if you upset a Banner you know what that means!

 

 

I had a first to find this morning. I didn't mean too!

 

Liar.

 

Didn't mean or expect to! Struth! Just like the FTF I got on Wednesday morning - it was a newly published cache, about 30 miles from home, on the way in to work and an easy target for extending my streak. There are some very active FTF seekers in that area and beating them, twice, is quite a shock. I don't think I'll have much more opportunity. Two FTFs in such a short time span is making me woozy. Good thing I'm already sitting down. Such heights of ecstacy give me acrophobi!

Almost worth another topic. Being FTF when you didn't know you were til you opened the log sheet. Many times I was surprised to find a cache I had no idea it was newly published and never found.

[+FolsomNatural]

 

 

What were they supposed to do? Stop after 5 and have a picnic while waiting for others to come along?

 

 

YES!

 

MANY cachers are family members and they bring along their kids.

If you've ever seen a child's face light up on getting their first FTF, then you understand

the reason to let a few go - - to let some novice or beginner get their first prize and know

the thrill of the game.

 

Not all members of the sport are wired to the hilt with electronic notifications and cell phone apps

that they can get out 7 milliseconds after a cache is posted.

[GOF and Bacall]

 

 

What were they supposed to do? Stop after 5 and have a picnic while waiting for others to come along?

 

 

YES!

 

MANY cachers are family members and they bring along their kids.

If you've ever seen a child's face light up on getting their first FTF, then you understand

the reason to let a few go - - to let some novice or beginner get their first prize and know

the thrill of the game.

 

Not all members of the sport are wired to the hilt with electronic notifications and cell phone apps

that they can get out 7 milliseconds after a cache is posted.

 

What thrill is there in getting an FTF you didn't earn? You want to be first to find a cache then get off the keyboard and make it happen. If you don't want to put in the effort then don't cry about it. I got my first FTF without PQs, instant notifications or phone app.

[+Don_J]

 

 

What were they supposed to do? Stop after 5 and have a picnic while waiting for others to come along?

 

 

YES!

 

MANY cachers are family members and they bring along their kids.

If you've ever seen a child's face light up on getting their first FTF, then you understand

the reason to let a few go - - to let some novice or beginner get their first prize and know

the thrill of the game.

 

Not all members of the sport are wired to the hilt with electronic notifications and cell phone apps

that they can get out 7 milliseconds after a cache is posted.

 

What thrill is there in getting an FTF you didn't earn? You want to be first to find a cache then get off the keyboard and make it happen. If you don't want to put in the effort then don't cry about it. I got my first FTF without PQs, instant notifications or phone app.

 

You don't have to tell the kids that they are getting a freebee. Forget about FTFs for a moment. Have you ever been caching with others and saw the cache but waited to let them discover it, especially new cachers or someone that doesn't cache as often as you? After they get that great feeling of finding the cache and think that they accomplished something, do you spoil it and exclaim that you found it first and you are better than them?

 

I think the point that a lot of us are trying to make, and is being totally discounted by others, is that some of us are not so competitive, and that we are willing to lay back just a little so that others can experience the same level of fun that we get when finding caches. If I know that there is a new cacher trying to get a FTF, I have no problem waiting a few minutes before rushing out the door. If I arrive and they are holding the cache in hand, I celebrate with them, not tell them that I "threw the game" for them.

[+niraD]

Have you ever been caching with others and saw the cache but waited to let them discover it, especially new cachers or someone that doesn't cache as often as you? After they get that great feeling of finding the cache and think that they accomplished something, do you spoil it and exclaim that you found it first and you are better than them?

I would have already said "huckle buckle beanstalk" shortly after I had spotted the cache. Who says there can be only one person in a group who finds the cache on their own?

[AZcachemeister]

...

If you've ever seen a child's face light up on getting their first FTF...

 

I seriously doubt any child is going to care about an FTF unless THE PARENTS make a big deal out of it first.

 

Kids care about swag.

A blank piece of paper in a Bison tube isn't going to cut it.

[+Isonzo Karst]

In my geocaching world, there is no FTF race. I guess it's the margaritaville syndrome.

 

I've gotten FTF on traditional caches that have been out 3 months, 6 months (admittedly higher terrain, but hey, I'm not the only person around doing these hides). I've had traditional caches of my own with low D/T ratings (not near urban areas) go a couple of weeks before they're found.

There's a mild joke about the intense competition for LASF (lazy a second finder) and a few cache pages will have "Username LASF" on them.

 

I get a kick out of logs of out of town visitors about this. They're stoked over FTF! On Christmas day early a couple of caches were published, and on both of them, visitors hustled out to get the FTF "before the family got up". One of them drove 25 miles one way for a FTF, got home to log it and realized that there were 2 more unfound in the same park. So by 11 am, they were back, after the 2 additional FTF. And darn proud of it too. I can't imagine making the trip to Florida to be with family for Christmas, and then spending part of the morning driving 50 miles across the 'burbs TWICE, for FTF.

 

The locals were too busy celebrating Christmas to care much, but I guess it was kind of that FTFer to set up the LASF for somebody ;-)

[+hzoi]

 

 

What were they supposed to do? Stop after 5 and have a picnic while waiting for others to come along?

 

 

YES!

 

MANY cachers are family members and they bring along their kids.

If you've ever seen a child's face light up on getting their first FTF, then you understand

the reason to let a few go - - to let some novice or beginner get their first prize and know

the thrill of the game.

 

Not all members of the sport are wired to the hilt with electronic notifications and cell phone apps

that they can get out 7 milliseconds after a cache is posted.

 

Let me let you in on a little secret: geocaching is not designed solely for children. If it was, you wouldn't need expensive technology to play the game (children can't afford GPS receivers on their own), you wouldn't have to go 528 feet to find every cache (children can't drive), and you wouldn't need five stars to rate difficulty and terrain because they'd be scaled down.

 

Geocaching is a game for adults. Children can participate in geoaching, but not fully. You must have realized by now that not all caches are child-friendly. Most children can't get 5-star terrain caches or solve 5-star puzzles on their own. It may be time for you to accept that perhaps the first to find side game is another aspect of geocaching that just isn't for children.

Edited December 26, 2012 by hzoi

[+The_Incredibles_]

 

What were they supposed to do? Stop after 5 and have a picnic while waiting for others to come along?

 

 

YES!

 

MANY cachers are family members and they bring along their kids.

If you've ever seen a child's face light up on getting their first FTF, then you understand

the reason to let a few go - - to let some novice or beginner get their first prize and know

the thrill of the game.

 

Not all members of the sport are wired to the hilt with electronic notifications and cell phone apps

that they can get out 7 milliseconds after a cache is posted.

 

You've made alot of assumptions about me without even checking my profile.

 

I have 2 kids. I don't have a smartphone. And yet we've managed to get almost 20 FTFs. Sometimes I bring the kids, sometimes I don't. I can tell you right now that my kids don't give a hoot about getting a FTF. My eldest only cares about whether there's a FTF prize. She won't go out if there's no prize. My youngest only cares about the toys.

 

I keep my email open and have set things up so my computer beeps when a new email comes in. I have my GPS ready and flashlights by the door.

 

Set a good example for your kids and teach them if they want something they can get it...if they are willing to work for it.