FTF Hogs

[+MtnMutt-ProDuckShins]

First... there are ZERO FTF Hogs!

 

Second, some folks have a life.

 

Third, then there are those who have nothing better to do than be Johnny on the spot. So what...

 

So, instead of complaining pick you want to be and become comfortable with who you are. You could also look into Munzee and try you luck there.

 

Remember this is only a game that gets you outdoors to enjoy the wonders of your city or Nature. Enjoy Life, smile and find something funny to laugh about each and everyday.

 

May you find Peace in whatever action you choose.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I suspect that if Usain Bolt was running a 200 yd. dash against a 6 year old girl he might ease up a bit.

IIRC, Usain does ease up on qualifying races. He still wins, but he saves his energy (and his best times) for the final races where he is competing against the best runners for the prize.

 

But more to the point: Even if there are 6-year-old girls at Usain's events, Usain isn't competing against 6-year-old girls. And Joe FTF Hog isn't competing against 6-year-old girls either. Joe FTF Hog is competing against Tom FTF Hog and Steve FTF Hog and Dave FTF Hog and Bob FTF Hog and all the other FTF Hogs.

 

And maybe it looks like Joe FTF Hog is "running up the score" with this series of caches, at least, compared to the 6-year-old girl. But again, he isn't competing against the 6-year-old girl. He's competing against all the other FTF Hogs. That's clear from the fact that someone else started from the opposite end and beat him to some of the FTFs.

 

First, to address the False Analogy Fallacy idea that Andronicus brought up. I've met enough geocachers in real life to come to the conclusion that any analogy that involves a comparison between an average geocacher and an Olympic caliber athletes is likely going to be a pretty good candidate for the False Analogy Fallacy designation.

 

I've also come to the conclusion based upon reading the forums for many years that the FTF game is significantly different depending on where one happens to live. Maybe in some places the FTF games is about Joe FTF Hog competing against Tom FTF Hog and Steve FTF Hog and Dave FTF Hog and Bob FTF Hog and all the other FTF Hogs. However, I don't see a lot of threads from Joe FTF Hog complaining the Tom FTF Hog won't ease up so that Joe's "career find count" of 457 FTFs can get a bit closer to Tom's 523 career FTFs. What I do so is Bill "I'd like experience what it's like to be FTF on one or two caches" wondering why Tom FTF hound and Bob FTF hound insist on being FTF on every cache available.

 

Whether or not someone agrees that the inclusion of world record holding athletes in any sort of analogy has any validity, let's consider a scenario that includes that 6 year old girl. Based on some of the responses here I wonder how the following would pan out.

 

Joe FTF Hog and Bill, whose six year old daughter has wondered what it would be like to find a cache before anyone else, get an instant notification for a cache (Bill has only recently become a PM and has learn about notifications). Bill and his daughter arrive first at the parking area a few hundred feet from the cache, and the six year old girl, eyes locked on her fathers smart phone starts walking toward the cache. Joe FTF Hog screeches to a halt as he pulls into the parking area, jumps out an starts walking swiftly toward the cache when he notices the you girl with a GPS in her hand. What does Joe do?

[+the4dirtydogs]

I suspect that if Usain Bolt was running a 200 yd. dash against a 6 year old girl he might ease up a bit.

IIRC, Usain does ease up on qualifying races. He still wins, but he saves his energy (and his best times) for the final races where he is competing against the best runners for the prize.

 

But more to the point: Even if there are 6-year-old girls at Usain's events, Usain isn't competing against 6-year-old girls. And Joe FTF Hog isn't competing against 6-year-old girls either. Joe FTF Hog is competing against Tom FTF Hog and Steve FTF Hog and Dave FTF Hog and Bob FTF Hog and all the other FTF Hogs.

 

And maybe it looks like Joe FTF Hog is "running up the score" with this series of caches, at least, compared to the 6-year-old girl. But again, he isn't competing against the 6-year-old girl. He's competing against all the other FTF Hogs. That's clear from the fact that someone else started from the opposite end and beat him to some of the FTFs.

 

First, to address the False Analogy Fallacy idea that Andronicus brought up. I've met enough geocachers in real life to come to the conclusion that any analogy that involves a comparison between an average geocacher and an Olympic caliber athletes is likely going to be a pretty good candidate for the False Analogy Fallacy designation.

 

I've also come to the conclusion based upon reading the forums for many years that the FTF game is significantly different depending on where one happens to live. Maybe in some places the FTF games is about Joe FTF Hog competing against Tom FTF Hog and Steve FTF Hog and Dave FTF Hog and Bob FTF Hog and all the other FTF Hogs. However, I don't see a lot of threads from Joe FTF Hog complaining the Tom FTF Hog won't ease up so that Joe's "career find count" of 457 FTFs can get a bit closer to Tom's 523 career FTFs. What I do so is Bill "I'd like experience what it's like to be FTF on one or two caches" wondering why Tom FTF hound and Bob FTF hound insist on being FTF on every cache available.

 

Whether or not someone agrees that the inclusion of world record holding athletes in any sort of analogy has any validity, let's consider a scenario that includes that 6 year old girl. Based on some of the responses here I wonder how the following would pan out.

 

Joe FTF Hog and Bill, whose six year old daughter has wondered what it would be like to find a cache before anyone else, get an instant notification for a cache (Bill has only recently become a PM and has learn about notifications). Bill and his daughter arrive first at the parking area a few hundred feet from the cache, and the six year old girl, eyes locked on her fathers smart phone starts walking toward the cache. Joe FTF Hog screeches to a halt as he pulls into the parking area, jumps out an starts walking swiftly toward the cache when he notices the you girl with a GPS in her hand. What does Joe do?

You're kidding right. This is getting really stupid. I cant believe you would even waste your time thinking of this stuff... nevermind I believe it.

 

What does Joe do? They share the FTF and get ice cream.

[+Viajero Perdido]

Just like winning a gun fight with a knife would be, the FTFs I have achieved on my bike and on transit are THAT MUCH MORE gratifying.

It's all in choosing your battles.

 

In a similar vein, the FTFs I have achieved after the cache has been waiting patiently for its first visitor for months, maybe years, are THAT MUCH MORE gratifying than "zero day exploits".

 

Though you do meet more people at the latter.

[+Hot Pepper Crew]

So, which is it? Are FTFs a competition, like gold medals at the Olympics? (Does anyone complain about athletes with more than one medal "hogging" the medals?) Or are FTFs something to be shared, like a plate of potstickers at a Chinese restaurant? (We usually divide potstickers evenly, with the extras going to the guy who doesn't like soup.)

FTF should be like potstickers at a Chinese restaurant. In my family, if you're in the bathroom when the potstickers come out, you're not getting any!

[+Don_J]

I suspect that if Usain Bolt was running a 200 yd. dash against a 6 year old girl he might ease up a bit.

IIRC, Usain does ease up on qualifying races. He still wins, but he saves his energy (and his best times) for the final races where he is competing against the best runners for the prize.

 

But more to the point: Even if there are 6-year-old girls at Usain's events, Usain isn't competing against 6-year-old girls. And Joe FTF Hog isn't competing against 6-year-old girls either. Joe FTF Hog is competing against Tom FTF Hog and Steve FTF Hog and Dave FTF Hog and Bob FTF Hog and all the other FTF Hogs.

 

And maybe it looks like Joe FTF Hog is "running up the score" with this series of caches, at least, compared to the 6-year-old girl. But again, he isn't competing against the 6-year-old girl. He's competing against all the other FTF Hogs. That's clear from the fact that someone else started from the opposite end and beat him to some of the FTFs.

 

First, to address the False Analogy Fallacy idea that Andronicus brought up. I've met enough geocachers in real life to come to the conclusion that any analogy that involves a comparison between an average geocacher and an Olympic caliber athletes is likely going to be a pretty good candidate for the False Analogy Fallacy designation.

 

I've also come to the conclusion based upon reading the forums for many years that the FTF game is significantly different depending on where one happens to live. Maybe in some places the FTF games is about Joe FTF Hog competing against Tom FTF Hog and Steve FTF Hog and Dave FTF Hog and Bob FTF Hog and all the other FTF Hogs. However, I don't see a lot of threads from Joe FTF Hog complaining the Tom FTF Hog won't ease up so that Joe's "career find count" of 457 FTFs can get a bit closer to Tom's 523 career FTFs. What I do so is Bill "I'd like experience what it's like to be FTF on one or two caches" wondering why Tom FTF hound and Bob FTF hound insist on being FTF on every cache available.

 

Whether or not someone agrees that the inclusion of world record holding athletes in any sort of analogy has any validity, let's consider a scenario that includes that 6 year old girl. Based on some of the responses here I wonder how the following would pan out.

 

Joe FTF Hog and Bill, whose six year old daughter has wondered what it would be like to find a cache before anyone else, get an instant notification for a cache (Bill has only recently become a PM and has learn about notifications). Bill and his daughter arrive first at the parking area a few hundred feet from the cache, and the six year old girl, eyes locked on her fathers smart phone starts walking toward the cache. Joe FTF Hog screeches to a halt as he pulls into the parking area, jumps out an starts walking swiftly toward the cache when he notices the you girl with a GPS in her hand. What does Joe do?

 

I can't tell you what Joe does, only what Don does. I would walk a little slower and maybe make a good show out of looking in the wrong spot, then congratulate her on her first FTF. I'm pretty confident that every one of our local FTF hogs would do the same thing.

[+jellis]

And heaven forbid that some cacher would presign logs and places them and submits them under a sock puppet account so they can be FTF. Oh know, that would be crazy.......

[+Isonzo Karst]

...

Once I signed in the first position, "Couldn't find it - looked everywhere". The FTFers were a bit perplexed by that, but claimed FTF - which was my intent.

 

Viajero Perdido, this may be the best thing I've learned from reading these forums in a couple of years. My sincerest thanks.

I don't get many FTF these days, but I'm sure I'll remember this way to sign the log ....;-)

Edited August 31, 2012 by Isonzo Karst

[Andronicus]

What does Joe do?

Joe would start running, "accidentily" bump into the girl, knocking her down. While she is crying, he makes the find.

 

Hmm. Maybe not the best plan...

 

If I was joe, I would start looking, starting with minimal effort, then increasing to full geocaching jedi power in about 5 min. If I found it, I would "share" the FTF, if she found it, I would claim STF.

[+SwineFlew]

And heaven forbid that some cacher would presign logs and places them and submits them under a sock puppet account so they can be FTF. Oh know, that would be crazy.......

 

I know one guy thats doing it.

[+theosus]

I know this is going to sound a bit inconsiderate, but... Who cares? Is FTF really that important? If you got into this hobby to be a stat chaser, I guess FTF might be important. For me personally, it was a way to spend a bit more time outdoors, to keep sharp on perishable skills that I learned in the Army, to get my kids involved outdoors and have fun. The numbers are fine, but really not that important.

 

I'm not knocking anyone who makes it all about the numbers, but if that's the choice they make, they're going to be disappointed when the numbers don't fall their way. (ie, FTF, streaks, etc.)

 

I used to think FTF was a bigger deal, but once I got one or two, I was thinking, "meh"....Not such a big deal any more. I don't mind being second or fifth to find now.

[+"grimlock"]

FTF, if thats your thing why not. To everyone the game is different. I enjoy being FTF but it isn't my sole goal either!

[+Snoogans]

Recently a series came out near me where there were 10 caches in a row along

a rural road.

The first person on the scene got 8 of the FTFs and missed the last two only because someone

had started at the other end.

 

I love a good competition for FTFs, but (I don't know, Jerry!) sometimes I think

they are FTF hogs and should let someone else find at least a FEW of the 10.

I see where a person is SO happy to get their first FTF - it's heartwarming

to see the joy they experience. So, when someone takes all 10 of a new series,

I think it's unsportsmanlike and inconsiderate. Am I wrong here?

 

I think millionaires and billionaires are inconsiderate, they should give me some of their money even though I didn't earn it or deserve it.

 

This thread nagged at something in the back of my mind when it was first posted. I finally figured out what it was....

 

Here, read this very short story by Kurt Vonnegut.

 

I rest my case.

[+hzoi]

This thread nagged at something in the back of my mind when it was first posted. I finally figured out what it was....

 

Here, read this very short story by Kurt Vonnegut.

 

I rest my case.

 

I had forgotten about that one. Well played.

[+Roman!]

Recently a series came out near me where there were 10 caches in a row along

a rural road.

The first person on the scene got 8 of the FTFs and missed the last two only because someone

had started at the other end.

 

I love a good competition for FTFs, but (I don't know, Jerry!) sometimes I think

they are FTF hogs and should let someone else find at least a FEW of the 10.

I see where a person is SO happy to get their first FTF - it's heartwarming

to see the joy they experience. So, when someone takes all 10 of a new series,

I think it's unsportsmanlike and inconsiderate. Am I wrong here?

 

I think millionaires and billionaires are inconsiderate, they should give me some of their money even though I didn't earn it or deserve it.

 

This thread nagged at something in the back of my mind when it was first posted. I finally figured out what it was....

 

Here, read this very short story by Kurt Vonnegut.

 

I rest my case.

 

I did my bit to save humanity from this fate, three new caches came out early this morning and I got sole FTF on all three, no sharing.

 

Take that equality!

Edited October 1, 2012 by Roman!

[+Off Grid]

Recently a series came out near me where there were 10 caches in a row along

a rural road.

The first person on the scene got 8 of the FTFs and missed the last two only because someone

had started at the other end.

 

I love a good competition for FTFs, but (I don't know, Jerry!) sometimes I think

they are FTF hogs and should let someone else find at least a FEW of the 10.

I see where a person is SO happy to get their first FTF - it's heartwarming

to see the joy they experience. So, when someone takes all 10 of a new series,

I think it's unsportsmanlike and inconsiderate. Am I wrong here?

 

Oh boy! wait to get blasted from the FTF hog trolls!!!

[+Off Grid]

Recently a series came out near me where there were 10 caches in a row along

a rural road.

The first person on the scene got 8 of the FTFs and missed the last two only because someone

had started at the other end.

 

I love a good competition for FTFs, but (I don't know, Jerry!) sometimes I think

they are FTF hogs and should let someone else find at least a FEW of the 10.

I see where a person is SO happy to get their first FTF - it's heartwarming

to see the joy they experience. So, when someone takes all 10 of a new series,

I think it's unsportsmanlike and inconsiderate. Am I wrong here?

 

I think millionaires and billionaires are inconsiderate, they should give me some of their money even though I didn't earn it or deserve it.

 

Spoken like a true Troll....

[+Sharks-N-Beans]

All hail the FTF Hogs! In our area, the FTF group is responsible for placing some of the most fantastically hidden caches in the area. I honestly believe they enjoy hiding unique caches to stump their counterparts more than getting the FTF...OK, that's a stretch. Either way, the rest of us benefit by enjoying their hides.

[+GeoBain]

Recently a series came out near me where there were 10 caches in a row along

a rural road.

The first person on the scene got 8 of the FTFs and missed the last two only because someone

had started at the other end.

 

I love a good competition for FTFs, but (I don't know, Jerry!) sometimes I think

they are FTF hogs and should let someone else find at least a FEW of the 10.

I see where a person is SO happy to get their first FTF - it's heartwarming

to see the joy they experience. So, when someone takes all 10 of a new series,

I think it's unsportsmanlike and inconsiderate. Am I wrong here?

 

I think millionaires and billionaires are inconsiderate, they should give me some of their money even though I didn't earn it or deserve it.

 

Spoken like a true Troll....

 

What's trollish about that? Asking others to refrain from getting FTF on caches just so you can is akin to asking a millionaire for a hand out just because you think you should have some money too.

 

Pretty darned good analogy, imho.

[+Mick McPhee]

My goal is to make the FTF hogs to work as hard for it as anyone else. If they do not post a DNF, then OK. If they come back multiple times, then OK. If they ask for hints, there are none forthcoming. If they want the easy ones, then I put some of those out too. The FTF game is played on both ends. FTF vs. Tough Hides.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Magnus McPhee

[+Flintstone5611]

My goal is to make the FTF hogs to work as hard for it as anyone else. If they do not post a DNF, then OK. If they come back multiple times, then OK. If they ask for hints, there are none forthcoming. If they want the easy ones, then I put some of those out too. The FTF game is played on both ends. FTF vs. Tough Hides.

 

And to be honest, that is the way I like it!

[MisterEFQ]

Recently a series came out near me where there were 10 caches in a row along

a rural road.

The first person on the scene got 8 of the FTFs and missed the last two only because someone

had started at the other end.

 

I love a good competition for FTFs, but (I don't know, Jerry!) sometimes I think

they are FTF hogs and should let someone else find at least a FEW of the 10.

I see where a person is SO happy to get their first FTF - it's heartwarming

to see the joy they experience. So, when someone takes all 10 of a new series,

I think it's unsportsmanlike and inconsiderate. Am I wrong here?

 

I think millionaires and billionaires are inconsiderate, they should give me some of their money even though I didn't earn it or deserve it.

 

Spoken like a true Troll....

 

Not really.

[+HEADLANDERS]

I have read through this thread and it still puzzles me as to what the motivation is that drives the people that chase 'FTF's. I hear the reference to 'beating the competition' but surely that really just means the very minority group in an area that pursues that aspect of geocaxching.

 

I often wonder what a psychologist would make of 'FTF' and 'numbers' chasing.

[+SwineFlew]

I have read through this thread and it still puzzles me as to what the motivation is that drives the people that chase 'FTF's. I hear the reference to 'beating the competition' but surely that really just means the very minority group in an area that pursues that aspect of geocaxching.

 

I often wonder what a psychologist would make of 'FTF' and 'numbers' chasing.

I wonder that as well. I can think of a few behavior problems.

[+uxorious]

I have read through this thread and it still puzzles me as to what the motivation is that drives the people that chase 'FTF's. I hear the reference to 'beating the competition' but surely that really just means the very minority group in an area that pursues that aspect of geocaxching.

 

I often wonder what a psychologist would make of 'FTF' and 'numbers' chasing.

 

They would make the same of "FTF" that they would of someone who would Geocache, birdwatch, play card games or any other things some people play and others do not understand.

[+Ma & Pa]

I have read through this thread and it still puzzles me as to what the motivation is that drives the people that chase 'FTF's. I hear the reference to 'beating the competition' but surely that really just means the very minority group in an area that pursues that aspect of geocaxching.

 

I often wonder what a psychologist would make of 'FTF' and 'numbers' chasing.

 

They would make the same of "FTF" that they would of someone who would Geocache, birdwatch, play card games or any other things some people play and others do not understand.

 

That is exactly right

 

I dont golf and I cant figure out why people would pay so much for equipment, membership and green fees, not to mention the golf channel, the golf magazines, the golf trips, the use of carts to avoid exercise, the frustration, etc. All for the fun of hitting a little ball into a hole.

 

We do not go for FTF but we have caching friends who love it and get a big kick out of beating others and finding a virgin log sheet. If they love it, that is great.

 

With regard to Geocaching, I have stopped trying to justify or explain motives to those who ask. I usually mention the 1% of caching that they would understand: It fills our day and gets us out of the house and gets us exercising.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Ma & Pa

[+bflentje]

I have read through this thread and it still puzzles me as to what the motivation is that drives the people that chase 'FTF's. I hear the reference to 'beating the competition' but surely that really just means the very minority group in an area that pursues that aspect of geocaxching.

 

I often wonder what a psychologist would make of 'FTF' and 'numbers' chasing.

 

They would make the same of "FTF" that they would of someone who would Geocache, birdwatch, play card games or any other things some people play and others do not understand.

 

Ayep.

[+The Jester]

They aren't Hogs. They are early birds, and they got the worm.

Maybe, but remember, the second mouse gets the cheese!

[+ocklawahaboy]

I think I got 7 FTF last night. Yes, I enjoy being first but not so much because I have beaten anyone to the punch or I like bragging rights. I mostly cache in a national forest. After 5 or 10 finds, there is a path beaten to the cache and it is sitting in plain sight, when you are first, there are no man-made clues to the cache location. You get to hunt it the way the hider intended it. When you make the find, all the swag it still there. I didn't trade anything last night but it was fun to look through and see what the CO had taken the time to put in there.

 

We ftfers are also the beta testers. Two of us tried a new cache on Saturday and neither found it. That prompted the CO to check it and it was over 300 ft off. No hard feelings on my part and it will save the next folks a lot of trouble.

 

I'm almost disappointed that I legitimized FTF complainer's jealousy with a reply but I wasted 5 min reading the thread, I might as well write a reply.

[knowschad]

I have read through this thread and it still puzzles me as to what the motivation is that drives the people that chase 'FTF's. I hear the reference to 'beating the competition' but surely that really just means the very minority group in an area that pursues that aspect of geocaxching.

 

I often wonder what a psychologist would make of 'FTF' and 'numbers' chasing.

 

They would make the same of "FTF" that they would of someone who would Geocache, birdwatch, play card games or any other things some people play and others do not understand.

 

Ayep.

 

Oh, I don't know about that... I think there is something uniquely Freudian about an obsession to be the FTF.

[+Scubasonic]

Am I wrong here?

 

ABSOLUTELY !!! If you can't handle the heat stay out of the Fire

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I think I got 7 FTF last night.

 

My last FTF was 9370 miles from home.

 

but I wasted 5 min reading the thread,

 

[+Legochugglers]

In my opinion it is the people that get so worked up about other cachers enjoying a FTF hunt that need to take a good look at themselves.

 

It seems to me that the most moaning comes from the following groups;

 

- Prospective FTFers who just ain't that good at it yet.

 

- The ones that say they don't care but as usual have an enormous amount to say on the matter.

[+The A-Team]

The ones that say they don't care but as usual have an enormous amount to say on the matter.

Yeah, there are quite a few of those in these forums. They won't hesitate to say that they don't understand why FTFers do what they do, even though they've probably experienced the same thing themselves with non-cachers not understanding why they geocache.

 

Play the way you want, as long as it's within the rules/guidelines. If you don't want to play a certain way, then you're free to not play that way. Don't go telling someone they're playing wrong, though.

[AZcachemeister]

 

Here, read this very short story by Kurt Vonnegut.

 

I rest my case.

 

Funny, I once found a cache (rather challenging) called Handicapper General.

I/we weren't FTF though.

Kurt really knows how to cut through the crap and get to the point, doesn't he?

[+Roman!]

I have read through this thread and it still puzzles me as to what the motivation is that drives the people that chase 'FTF's. I hear the reference to 'beating the competition' but surely that really just means the very minority group in an area that pursues that aspect of geocaxching.

 

I often wonder what a psychologist would make of 'FTF' and 'numbers' chasing.

 

Some people are just competitive by nature, in my career the most competitive people rise to the top and being extremely competitive has served me well so I apply it to anything I do. I'd love to see a survey done on the average income of those that cache for fun and those that go after stats, numbers and FTFs, I know what I think the results would be but I can't prove it.

 

They aren't Hogs. They are early birds, and they got the worm.

Maybe, but remember, the second mouse gets the cheese!

 

Only if there is a trap there that will kill you otherwise the second mouse will starve. The second mouse will also starve if the first mouse can outsmart the trap. I'd hate to be the second mouse and have my fate decided by circumstances rather than be there first and have it decided on my actions.

 

 

I have read through this thread and it still puzzles me as to what the motivation is that drives the people that chase 'FTF's. I hear the reference to 'beating the competition' but surely that really just means the very minority group in an area that pursues that aspect of geocaxching.

 

I often wonder what a psychologist would make of 'FTF' and 'numbers' chasing.

 

Even if it's a minority you are beating the best just like a marathon, thousands start but only a few really compete to win but beating them is what it's all about.

 

 

 

I think I got 7 FTF last night.

 

My last FTF was 9370 miles from home.

 

but I wasted 5 min reading the thread,

 

 

You keep bringing up your transatlantic FTF (this is the 3rd thread I've seen you post about it), I admit, too me that's cool but based on your stance of the FTF game why do you keep bringing it up?

 

In my opinion it is the people that get so worked up about other cachers enjoying a FTF hunt that need to take a good look at themselves.

 

It seems to me that the most moaning comes from the following groups;

 

- Prospective FTFers who just ain't that good at it yet.

 

- The ones that say they don't care but as usual have an enormous amount to say on the matter.

 

+1

 

- The ones that say they don't care but as usual have an enormous amount to say on the matter.

 

Wonder what psychologists would have to say about that.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Roman!

[+Don_J]

I have read through this thread and it still puzzles me as to what the motivation is that drives the people that chase 'FTF's. I hear the reference to 'beating the competition' but surely that really just means the very minority group in an area that pursues that aspect of geocaxching.

 

I often wonder what a psychologist would make of 'FTF' and 'numbers' chasing.

 

They would make the same of "FTF" that they would of someone who would Geocache, birdwatch, play card games or any other things some people play and others do not understand.

 

Ayep.

 

Oh, I don't know about that... I think there is something uniquely Freudian about an obsession to be the FTF.

 

I don't know anything about birdwatching. If someone puts out a new bird, is there a subset of watchers that feel compelled to run out at 3AM to watch it first?

Edited October 3, 2012 by Don_J

[4wheelin_fool]

I have read through this thread and it still puzzles me as to what the motivation is that drives the people that chase 'FTF's. I hear the reference to 'beating the competition' but surely that really just means the very minority group in an area that pursues that aspect of geocaxching.

 

I often wonder what a psychologist would make of 'FTF' and 'numbers' chasing.

 

They would make the same of "FTF" that they would of someone who would Geocache, birdwatch, play card games or any other things some people play and others do not understand.

 

Ayep.

 

Oh, I don't know about that... I think there is something uniquely Freudian about an obsession to be the FTF.

 

I don't know anything about birdwatching. If someone puts out a new bird, is there a subset of watchers that feel compelled to run out at 3AM to watch it first?

If a new species is sighted in the area, then yes there would be people arriving at daybreak to confirm it first.

[+The A-Team]

I don't know anything about birdwatching. If someone puts out a new bird, is there a subset of watchers that feel compelled to run out at 3AM to watch it first?

If a new species is sighted in the area, then yes there would be people arriving at daybreak to confirm it first.

Lousy first-to-see-a-bird hogs...

 

 

[+Sol seaker]

Recently a series came out near me where there were 10 caches in a row along

a rural road.

The first person on the scene got 8 of the FTFs and missed the last two only because someone

had started at the other end.

 

I love a good competition for FTFs, but (I don't know, Jerry!) sometimes I think

they are FTF hogs and should let someone else find at least a FEW of the 10.

I see where a person is SO happy to get their first FTF - it's heartwarming

to see the joy they experience. So, when someone takes all 10 of a new series,

I think it's unsportsmanlike and inconsiderate. Am I wrong here?

 

This is so funny, because almost the exact same thing happened to me last week. I had to do a double take and check where you live!!

 

Here, it was a rural road, but there were about 20 new caches put out, and my friend and I managed to get four of them FTF in that row (we got two more in the area, but that's another story).

And, the only reason we got those, was the guy started at the other end. :laughing:

 

Very strange it is so similar.

 

Anyway, although we called him many choice names at the time, we were actually glad he got the ones at the end because we simply couldn't walk any farther and would certainly have been tempted to do so if he hadn't found them. We were very grateful he had started at the other end so we were able to get some of them. He was on a bike and we were on foot. There is no road access at the far end of this trail.

 

Was it fair?

Sure. Why not?

We should have gotten up an hour earlier.

The caches had been there for four days at that point. We had no idea anyone would try for them the same day we did.

 

The ones that bother me even more are the guys who race to the caches locally and don't give anyone else a chance at it. But I totally agree with the assessment that a FTF given, is not fair either. What's the point? A race would no longer be a race.

 

The FTF's in this area are a great chance to meet other cachers. I've been really glad when I've had the chance to show up at one to meet the locals.

I was sore about the unfairness at all, before I realized it's just another way to be social really. It doesn't have to be about the race for some of us.

 

Just like it's not what we find in the cache, it's the hunt.

 

It's not getting the FTF, it's the race and the people you mean along the way.

[+SwineFlew]

I don't know anything about birdwatching. If someone puts out a new bird, is there a subset of watchers that feel compelled to run out at 3AM to watch it first?

If a new species is sighted in the area, then yes there would be people arriving at daybreak to confirm it first.

Lousy first-to-see-a-bird hogs...

 

 

I saw what u did there.

[4wheelin_fool]

I don't know anything about birdwatching. If someone puts out a new bird, is there a subset of watchers that feel compelled to run out at 3AM to watch it first?

If a new species is sighted in the area, then yes there would be people arriving at daybreak to confirm it first.

Lousy first-to-see-a-bird hogs...

 

 

I saw what u did there.

 

It's the flying FTF hogs that I fear. :ph34r:

Edited October 3, 2012 by 4wheelin_fool

[+dprovan]

I have read through this thread and it still puzzles me as to what the motivation is that drives the people that chase 'FTF's. I hear the reference to 'beating the competition' but surely that really just means the very minority group in an area that pursues that aspect of geocaxching.

I know what you mean! I've never understood people that try to come in first in track and field events. I hear the reference to 'beating the competition', but surely that really just means the very minority group in an area that like to come in first.

 

As it happens, in my area I'd say just about any cacher would try for FTF if they had the chance, so it might make more sense to ask why there are so many lazy people in your area that only a very minority group are willing to try.

[+fizzymagic]

I've never understood people that try to come in first in track and field events. I hear the reference to 'beating the competition', but surely that really just means the very minority group in an area that like to come in first.

 

Track and field is a competitive sport.

 

Geocaching is not.

 

Bad analogy.

[+Roman!]

Cooking is a competitive sport now, anything that can be ranked, rated or critiqued is a competitive sport. If you choose not to compete that's your thing but many many others will compete.

[+Sol seaker]

I have read through this thread and it still puzzles me as to what the motivation is that drives the people that chase 'FTF's. I hear the reference to 'beating the competition' but surely that really just means the very minority group in an area that pursues that aspect of geocaxching.

I know what you mean! I've never understood people that try to come in first in track and field events. I hear the reference to 'beating the competition', but surely that really just means the very minority group in an area that like to come in first.

 

As it happens, in my area I'd say just about any cacher would try for FTF if they had the chance, so it might make more sense to ask why there are so many lazy people in your area that only a very minority group are willing to try.

 

So is anyone who doesn't try out for track and field, or any sports competition "lazy"?

How about "uninterested"?

I know a lot of people who really don't care about FTF. In fact I'd be willing to bet the number of people who don't care about being FTF far surpasses the number who care.

Then there are those who are out making a living, raising a family or busy with creating their own business, taking care of ill parents, etc. etc. that cannot consider such a game as important enough to drop their responsibilities and run out the door on a whim. That is not lazy.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

I have read through this thread and it still puzzles me as to what the motivation is that drives the people that chase 'FTF's. I hear the reference to 'beating the competition' but surely that really just means the very minority group in an area that pursues that aspect of geocaxching.

 

People chase FTF's because they enjoy it. If it wasn't fun for them, I'm pretty confident they'd quit. Now, what they might gain from chasing FTF's is a whole other question. For some, they enjoy the competition and being first. Some enjoy the social aspect of meeting other cachers. Some have giant egos and think that lots of FTF's will boost their status in the geocaching community. Some just take the FTF's if they happen to be first.

 

There might be other reasons, but the overwhelming majority do it for the competitive aspect. I think that's cool. Lately, however, there seems to be more and more "I'm FTF, so I'm totally awesome!" type of geocachers emerging. That I find silly.

 

I don't know why this bothers me, but it does: in my local area, I've seen an increase in FTF hounds and what bothers me is that if they're not FTF on a cache, that cache becomes dead to them. It's like if they don't find the cache first, the cache is no longer good enough to bother finding. I think it bothers me because it turns geocaching from an activity that has strong community aspects into nothing more than a competition based blitzkrieg where scorched earth tactics dominate the search and they have no time for writing quality logs because they have another 10 FTF's to run after. I don't find that appealing at all.

[+Roman!]

I have read through this thread and it still puzzles me as to what the motivation is that drives the people that chase 'FTF's. I hear the reference to 'beating the competition' but surely that really just means the very minority group in an area that pursues that aspect of geocaxching.

I know what you mean! I've never understood people that try to come in first in track and field events. I hear the reference to 'beating the competition', but surely that really just means the very minority group in an area that like to come in first.

 

As it happens, in my area I'd say just about any cacher would try for FTF if they had the chance, so it might make more sense to ask why there are so many lazy people in your area that only a very minority group are willing to try.

 

So is anyone who doesn't try out for track and field, or any sports competition "lazy"?

How about "uninterested"?

I know a lot of people who really don't care about FTF. In fact I'd be willing to bet the number of people who don't care about being FTF far surpasses the number who care.

Then there are those who are out making a living, raising a family or busy with creating their own business, taking care of ill parents, etc. etc. that cannot consider such a game as important enough to drop their responsibilities and run out the door on a whim. That is not lazy.

 

But if they are uninterested why do they spend time bashing those that are interested? Obviously on some level FTF means something to them. The real people who don't care about FTF never have or will post on an FTF thread, the rest are phonies.

[+DonB]

Recently a series came out near me where there were 10 caches in a row along

a rural road.

The first person on the scene got 8 of the FTFs and missed the last two only because someone

had started at the other end.

 

I love a good competition for FTFs, but (I don't know, Jerry!) sometimes I think

they are FTF hogs and should let someone else find at least a FEW of the 10.

I see where a person is SO happy to get their first FTF - it's heartwarming

to see the joy they experience. So, when someone takes all 10 of a new series,

I think it's unsportsmanlike and inconsiderate. Am I wrong here?

I'll take a FTF if I get it but don't think it's that big of deal. We have people around here that will go out in their PJs at 10:30 at night in a rain storm to get a FTF. Personally I think they're nuts, but to each their own.

[Andronicus]

...Then there are those who are out making a living, raising a family or busy with creating their own business, taking care of ill parents, etc. etc. that cannot consider such a game as important enough to drop their responsibilities and run out the door on a whim. That is not lazy.

I generally agree with your post, but not this statement. I work a full time job. I have 4 kids. In the evenings, I help my wife with her home based business. Yet I still manage to get a FTF every once in awhile. I am not a FTF "hound" by any means, but i do get them every couple of months or so. People who don't get FTF don't get them because they don't try (or don't try hard enough).

 

I'll take a FTF if I get it but don't think it's that big of deal. We have people around here that will go out in their PJs at 10:30 at night in a rain storm to get a FTF. Personally I think they're nuts, but to each their own.

That is kind of tame. Only 10:30? The real had core guys will do it at 0200h if need be.