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Washington State County Challenge - days are numbered


Lizzy
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I've been thinking about this for a while now. This cache, along with a few bookmark lists of mine, have become increasingly more demanding/time consuming to maintain. Along with constant requests for pre-verification & demands (that's right - demands) for final coords, it has become stressful to continue maintaining this as it was set up. I would put this up for adoption, but the cache is located on private property.

 

My hope is that someone steps up & starts their own County Challenge (and maybe I can partipate :D). It's days are numbered. I will most likely archive this by the end of October. No nasty remarks please - after all, it is not a community owned cache. If anyone wants the cache container/contents for their own county challenge, at that time, please let me know & it's yours. No, this is not geo-suicide - no drama here.

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Perhaps you could put it up for adoption and the cache location can change. In this case, I think the experience is the challenge, not the cache location.

 

If I was owner, I'd change the rules a little including making the final location visible, but that's me.

 

Either way, I hope if not you, someone makes a new County Challenge because I think its the easiest and greatest idea for a statewide challenge we have and you have done a nice job on it over the years. Yes, there is the Delorme challenge, but the County is nice that folks can more easily visualize the boundaries vs require a GSAK grid (which Jon does a great job updating all those maps all the time of course).

 

Either way, wanted to say thanks for all the work you have done on this challenge over the years.

Edited by lamoracke
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Perhaps you could put it up for adoption and the cache location can change. In this case, I think the experience is the challenge, not the cache location.

 

If I was owner, I'd change the rules a little including making the final location visible, but that's me.

 

Either way, I hope if not you, someone makes a new County Challenge because I think its the easiest and greatest idea for a statewide challenge we have and you have done a nice job on it over the years. Yes, there is the Delorme challenge, but the County is nice that folks can more easily visualize the boundaries vs require a GSAK grid (which Jon does a great job updating all those maps all the time of course).

 

Either way, wanted to say thanks for all the work you have done on this challenge over the years.

You need to start one Lamoracke! :)

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Thanks so much for keeping this going for this long!!

I know these challenges are a lot of work!! Thanks for doing it and for creating this great challenge!

 

I agree with Lamoracke's idea. Adopt it out with the new owner moving it to a new location. Challenge caches aren't about the location, so it can be anywhere. It's about the challenge.

 

I hope someone takes it up. Caching in all the counties has been a long-term back-burner goal for me, but one I've enjoyed adding to from time to time when I can.

I've hoped someday to have the time to travel to the far corners of the state to get the ones I don't have. I'd love to still do this.

 

Thanks, also, for announcing this on the forums so someone can pick it up. I really appreciate that, rather than having it just quietly disappear.

 

This has been a great challenge and I can see it having a long life into the future, maybe being passed along a few times, because these do take a lot of work!!

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If I was owner, I'd change the rules a little including making the final location visible, but that's me.

 

 

Thank you for your time and effort over the years Lizzy. I enjoyed doing the challenge, although I must admit I was doing Moun10bikes at that same time. But your challenge certainly did have a major influence on the size of caches I found. :lol: And thank you for the very timely warning on the demise, I'm sure many appreciate that and hopefully someone will be motivated to adopt.

 

As a side note, the guidelines now require the final coordinates to be published, so not an issue on a new cache. If this one gets adopted it is something the new owner may consider. Another thought regarding adopting versus a new one. The guidelines on a challenge cache also preclude placing a limit on the found date, i.e., you can't say that finds prior to the publish date of the challenge cache don't count. What this means is that everyone that found Lizzy's cache is already qualified to find and log a new county challenge cache.

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If I was owner, I'd change the rules a little including making the final location visible, but that's me.

 

 

As a side note, the guidelines now require the final coordinates to be published, so not an issue on a new cache. If this one gets adopted it is something the new owner may consider. Another thought regarding adopting versus a new one. The guidelines on a challenge cache also preclude placing a limit on the found date, i.e., you can't say that finds prior to the publish date of the challenge cache don't count. What this means is that everyone that found Lizzy's cache is already qualified to find and log a new county challenge cache.

 

true, one cannot preclude past finds, but in theory, a new challenge may require only traditional caches and perhaps someone qualified with only having a puzzle cache in said county. Or maybe some different rule like that. Who knows. Most likely though, yeah, everyone who qualified before would on any new one.

Edited by lamoracke
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First and foremost, big thanks to Lizzy for maintaining the challenge for 6 years. We're newer to the state (just over a year), but as lovers of geography-based challenges the WA County Challenge was one of the very first caches to go on our mental "must do" list as soon as we got here. We know that it's a labor of love to keep track of all the stuff and we're quite sure that there are many who appreciate that labor even if they don't pipe up on the forums. We usually don't pipe up ourselves, so it's a testament to our estimation of the challenge that we have :)

 

Very glad to hear that it looks like there's a likely adopter, since we'd echo the comments of others that it would be great to see this one go on as an adoption rather than having a replacement pop up. Speaking from the perspective of folks that haven't finished the challenge yet - 26 counties down, 13 to go - we'd love to have the chance to join the esteemed ranks of those who have finished before us. We always love scrolling through the logs on the older caches, picking out names of folks we've met, and marveling at how long it's been since some our our friends and acquaintances finished the challenges. We probably won't be able to finish the current incarnation before the imminent change; but even if we had finished already, for us the coolness of the history/continuity on the current cache would far outweigh the remote possibility of an FTF or +1 find count on a theoretical replacement challenge.

 

Just our 2 cents, whatever it's worth.

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What this means is that everyone that found Lizzy's cache is already qualified to find and log a new county challenge cache.

Possibly. The way we read the guidelines, caches archived prior to the start date of a challenge could not be used.

 

We've never officially been working on Lizzy's challenge, but we have used it as sort of an vague goal setting device and usually think about it when we are travelling. Even so, we can be added to the list of people applauding Lizzy's efforts over the years. A challenge cache liker hers is a real challenge to maintain and we admire her for doing it.

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Possibly. The way we read the guidelines, caches archived prior to the start date of a challenge could not be used.

 

Which set of rules are you reading? The ones on the cache page or the ones in Groundpeaks knowledge book?

 

Probably if the cache is adopted what is on the cache page will still continue to apply since it is grandfathered. If it is a new cache then the ones in the knowledge book apply. But, of course, if the cache is adopted I won't care since I already logged it. In the knowledge book it simply says

 

Challenge caches cannot include restrictions based on 'date found'; caches found before the challenge cache publication date can count towards the achievement of the challenge.

The way I read that is if I found the cache and it counts towards achieving the challenge I can use it, and since status was not mentioned in my opinion it does not matter. The context of my original comments was towards a new cache, not an adopted one. There are several rules on the current cache page that will not pass muster with the current guidelines. One is that the final coordinates are not on the cache page (can't require email to complete the challenge), and the issue of the cache being archived when claiming credit. If you have looked at the recent Thomas Guide challenges in the Puget sound area you will note they have two categories for completion, armchair and fresh. The armchair category you reach into your found caches and find you already completed the challenge so you go log it. Or you start fresh and find new caches to complete the category. I would imagine a new cache for the county challenge would be structured in a similar manner.

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I want to thank you all for the kind words. It is gratifying to know that the challenge was well thought of. Happily, an awesome cacher has stepped up to adopt my "baby" and I know it is in great hands. Thank you Fluteface! Now, I can get busy with finishing the challenge, but first...I have to submit my qualifying finds. :unsure: Oh no! Some may no longer qualify :unsure:

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I want to thank you all for the kind words. It is gratifying to know that the challenge was well thought of. Happily, an awesome cacher has stepped up to adopt my "baby" and I know it is in great hands. Thank you Fluteface! Now, I can get busy with finishing the challenge, but first...I have to submit my qualifying finds. :unsure: Oh no! Some may no longer qualify :unsure:

Good to hear! Thank you Fluteface! :) Good luck on your quest to complete the challenge Lizzy!

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I've been thinking about this for a while now. This cache, along with a few bookmark lists of mine, have become increasingly more demanding/time consuming to maintain. Along with constant requests for pre-verification & demands (that's right - demands) for final coords, it has become stressful to continue maintaining this as it was set up. I would put this up for adoption, but the cache is located on private property.

 

Sad but understand. It's been a nice goal for several years for me to try to visit all the counties in WA (just the same handful far-east to go, still) and this has been a nice way to keep track of things. Still hoping to get the three days to knock them off before you hand the keys over on this one. I've had several nice overnight trips and days playing hooky from work on this one so far. Great stuff !

 

FWIW, I know it's your challenge, meaning you can define it your way, but I always wondered if the methodology is a bit passe' and needlessly strict+complicated nowadays: At a minimum, it sure has always seemed labor-intensive for you based on my reading. I wonder if some tweaks in the rules might keep the fun and remove the pain/time.

 

The following are just some thoughts that leap to mind:

  • you require registering before starting. Seems a bit onorous to the user, and painful for you to keep track of for no particularly good reason I can think of.
  • you require folks to update in a note (add a note, not edit a note) as they proceed county by county. That's a pain for us as seekers, and it has to be a pain for you to read. I can see how periodic updates in a relatively long-time-to-complete challenge would provide you as the owner nice feedback that folks still are working on it, but that might be doable with 'requesting' rather than 'requiring' folks to update things periodically. I suspect enough folks would do so that you'd still know folks are interested in this one.
  • proving validity of eligibility can now be done by a GSAK macro. I can think of at least two macros that would do the job. I do that with my Blanche's Blackout Challenge. If folks would work that hard to falsely claim they've found a cache placed on all 366 days of the year, I'm not going to worry it as the hider.
  • the cache could of course be moved off private property, or to some other cooperating cacher's property if that's the big problem
  • and you could of course always publish the final location if requests were driving you crazy (incidentally, thank you for answering my email last year regarding which county the final is in, helped lots in confirming I wanted to do it)

 

That said, I'm still going to find a way to cache in all the states and fill out my map and I greatly appreciate the cache and where I've travelled thus far getting to 31 counties. I know I will not attempt the DeLorme Challenge for a variety of reasons but this one is a nice step up from the King County Thomas Challenge that kept me busy a couple years ago. Certainly hope it sticks around indefinitely. Thanks.

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FWIW, I know it's your challenge, meaning you can define it your way, but I always wondered if the methodology is a bit passe' and needlessly strict+complicated nowadays: At a minimum, it sure has always seemed labor-intensive for you based on my reading. I wonder if some tweaks in the rules might keep the fun and remove the pain/time.

 

The following are just some thoughts that leap to mind:

  • you require registering before starting. Seems a bit onorous to the user, and painful for you to keep track of for no particularly good reason I can think of.
  • you require folks to update in a note (add a note, not edit a note) as they proceed county by county. That's a pain for us as seekers, and it has to be a pain for you to read. I can see how periodic updates in a relatively long-time-to-complete challenge would provide you as the owner nice feedback that folks still are working on it, but that might be doable with 'requesting' rather than 'requiring' folks to update things periodically. I suspect enough folks would do so that you'd still know folks are interested in this one.
  • proving validity of eligibility can now be done by a GSAK macro. I can think of at least two macros that would do the job. I do that with my Blanche's Blackout Challenge. If folks would work that hard to falsely claim they've found a cache placed on all 366 days of the year, I'm not going to worry it as the hider.
  • the cache could of course be moved off private property, or to some other cooperating cacher's property if that's the big problem
  • and you could of course always publish the final location if requests were driving you crazy (incidentally, thank you for answering my email last year regarding which county the final is in, helped lots in confirming I wanted to do it)

 

The majority of the rules were to prevent armchair logging or to help highlight notification. It needed to be a real "challenge" to me, not just another blip on the GC map, but a blip you needed to earn. And I reaaalllllyyy disliked the whole "community owned" mentality that kept creeping into forum comments. It was gratifying for the most part to maintain, but my priorities are shifting and Fluteface is a great cache owner & will take care of it better than I did.

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