Are caches allowed at a National Wildlife Refuge?

[+DukeOfURL01]

Near my house is a big wooded Place called: U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, Sacramento River National Wildlife Refuge. There's no caches here already, which leads me to believe they're not allowed here, but I wanted to make sure...

[+lamoracke]

Its probably up to the land manager / head ranger at each one. I have talked to the Wildlife Refuge guy in Port Angeles, WA. There are no physical caches in some areas, but he would have been open to it in theory in some other areas. You probably need to find out who is in charge of that particular one.

 

Surely you need permission, but as far as if you will get it, that I do not know. Perhaps your reviewers in your area already know, but it does not hurt to ask either way.

 

The fact you are extremely local, perhaps you already know the person in charge, which could only help your case.

Edited August 26, 2012 by lamoracke

[+DukeOfURL01]

I do not know the person in charge, I'd have to ask. I don't want to ask, because the general answer is no.

[+lamoracke]

I got my earth cache published in a refuge, the first one who got permission there, found the right guy at the right time I guess....all they can do is say no.

[Keystone]

Here is the thread announcing the ban on geocaches in National Wildlife Refuges. This policy was imposed by the US Fish & Wildlife Service in November 2003.

 

Unlike the US National Park Service, which will now allow local facility managers to make decisions about physical geocache placements, I've never heard any update/modification of the USFWS policy.

[+palmetto]

There are several staffed placed, and one cacher placed geocaches, published with verified with NWR manager approval at the Key Deer National Wildlife Refuge, and there's one at the Pelican Island National Wildlife Refuge in Florida. I recall that there are caches in one of the midwest NWR, and I believe one of the NWR in California. Sorry, I meant to bookmark those when I saw them, but didn't do it.

 

Just as the National Park Service has changed course re caches, and now allows local managers to permit them, local NWR managers are sometimes willing to allow caches. I suspect that the 2003 memo is forgotten or never seen by local NWR managers, and geocaching is no longer the misunderstood "search for buried treasure" that it was a decade ago.

[+Chrysalides]

Over here, there is one 10 stage multi, with the final in the visitors center of the Don Edwards San Francisco Bay NWR. It's placed by the Refuge itself (most likely with help from some local geocachers).

 

http://coord.info/GC1HQ1W

 

I still haven't completed it. I've collected about half the stages, but lost all the info

[+Road Rabbit]

There are several staffed placed, and one cacher placed geocaches, published with verified with NWR manager approval at the Key Deer National Wildlife Refuge, and there's one at the Pelican Island National Wildlife Refuge in Florida. I recall that there are caches in one of the midwest NWR, and I believe one of the NWR in California. Sorry, I meant to bookmark those when I saw them, but didn't do it.

 

Just as the National Park Service has changed course re caches, and now allows local managers to permit them, local NWR managers are sometimes willing to allow caches. I suspect that the 2003 memo is forgotten or never seen by local NWR managers, and geocaching is no longer the misunderstood "search for buried treasure" that it was a decade ago.

Merritt Island Wildlife Refuge, which removed all caches in 2003, does have a "GPS Scavenger Hunt" for young people:

 

"Students learn how to use a GPS unit and go on a scavenger hunt to find waypoints. At each waypoint students perform a science related activity. The refuge has 18 GPS units for loan and offers basic training in GPS use."

[+gtsally]

There are several staffed placed, and one cacher placed geocaches, published with verified with NWR manager approval at the Key Deer National Wildlife Refuge, and there's one at the Pelican Island National Wildlife Refuge in Florida. I recall that there are caches in one of the midwest NWR, and I believe one of the NWR in California. Sorry, I meant to bookmark those when I saw them, but didn't do it.

 

Just as the National Park Service has changed course re caches, and now allows local managers to permit them, local NWR managers are sometimes willing to allow caches. I suspect that the 2003 memo is forgotten or never seen by local NWR managers, and geocaching is no longer the misunderstood "search for buried treasure" that it was a decade ago.

 

The non-staff placed geocaches in the Key Deer National Wildlife Refuge were placed by long standing volunteers of the Refuge. I was turned down before I even asked. I wish they would put more out, as they take up most of the land on MY island.

[AZcachemeister]

I own a cache on a NWR, but it's an EarthCache...no container.

Yes, I got permission before proceeding.

 

Perhaps an EarthCache could break the ice and warm them up to the idea?

[+IslandsAndOcean]

I can say that physical geocaches are not allowed on Alaska Maritime National Wildlife Refuge lands. Much of our lands are vital for seabird productivity,and human disturbance of any kind is avoided. Also, much of our land is also Wilderness. Be sure to check with each individual Refuge to know where the Wilderness designations are.

 

That said, it would be very difficult to even get to these areas in the first place, unless you were performing research with/for us.

 

In Region 7 (Alaska), the region office has been warming up to some GPS/geocaching-related activities. The safest best so far would be to request permission for an Earthcache. However, most NWR lands are special because of the biology, not geology of the site. It would take some good understanding of geology and biology to make the connection at most Refuge lands to create a good Earthcache. Contact information for US Fish and Wildlife Refuge Managers can be found at www.fws.gov.

[+wildtech]

Wildlife refuges generally don't allow uses that are not in keeping with the purpose for which the refuge was initially created. For example, Browns Park NWR was established to provide waterfowl breeding habitat to make up for habitat that was lost when the dam at Flaming Gorge was built. Uses within the Refuge that don't specifically fulfill that aim have to clear a pretty high bar in order to be allowed. An example would be the campgrounds and related facilities on that refuge. The idea being that without public support for raising waterfowl in this particular area, it would be more difficult to secure funding during Congressional and internal Interior budgeting processes. The campgrounds help waterfowl by furthering this aim and, more importantly, don't hinder the refuge's ability to fulfill it's real purpose.

 

All that being said, I can see where some refuges would allow caches and some wouldn't. Hopefully by understanding what the local refuge manager has to consider would help you better sell the idea of a cache on a refuge or to better understand why it would be denied. I don't work for the FWS, but I do work for another Interior agency-one that is VERY friendly to cachers!

[+jellis]

Only they can put caches on the refuge if they want. And usually they are only for educational purposes. This is what it says on their website.

 

Since it is not legal to leave anything on a refuge,.

 

http://www.fws.gov/refuges/news/geocaching.html

[+NeverSummer]

Only they can put caches on the refuge if they want. And usually they are only for educational purposes. This is what it says on their website.

 

Since it is not legal to leave anything on a refuge,.

 

http://www.fws.gov/refuges/news/geocaching.html

Here's the bottom line:

Since the signing of the National Wildlife Refuge System Improvement Act of 1997, appropriate public uses of the Refuge System include six major wildlife-dependent recreational uses: hunting, fishing, wildlife observation, photography, environmental education, and environmental interpretation. I'm sure, as the original 2003 thread unfortunately demonstrates, many will want to argue that some of these "Big 6" can be done with geocaching as a component. However, the key here is that many Refuges contain sensitive biological areas including rookeries, migration stopovers, year-round vital habitat, rare species, etc.

 

It's important to draw a line between the US Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) and their National Wildlife Refuges (NWR). The USFWS can have administrative lands, which are federally owned and maintained and would need explicit permissions for geocaches on those properties. These caches often take form as physical caches at Visitor Centers, or Earthcaches and Waymarks. Any USFWS office can grant permission to the public to place a cache on USFWS administrative land or holdings.

 

Refuges (NWRs) are different. They are public lands, but are only open to the "Big 6" uses. Because the NWR system also has laws and rules about leaving property behind in/on Refuge lands, physical geocaches are not allowed. There are, as the enforcement officer stated in their 2003 letter, other regulations, laws and rules that bar the presence of physical caches on those Refuge lands. Now, this is where the "Big 6" can be stretched to include the possibility of selling a Refuge office to allow a Waymark or Earthcache. (Physical geocaches are not allowed, and some Refuge offices and employees don't know that fact, because they aren't familiar with geocaching, or don't know the USFWS rules about cache placement.)

 

The Regional office in Alaska (Region 7) just partnered with the city of Anchorage to put out geocaches "in honor" of the Refuges in Alaska. All caches were placed by a USFWS employee's "Refuge" account in Anchorage parks. It was as close as we've come here to getting partnerships with the USFWS and NWRs to have physical caches related to the Refuges. Some Refuge offices here are willing to work with geocachers to publish Earthcaches and Waymarks, but technically still need approval from the Region and National offices before that can officially happen.

 

So, Administrative lands are ok, with permissions. Refuges are NOT ok, even if you get permission. Some NWRs are easily accessed and have improvements like campgrounds or even a visitor center. Others are far-flung and might contain National Wilderness designations. There can be combinations of any of this, of course, but the bottom line is that "physical" geocaching (read: leaving a container and logbook) does not fit any of the "Big 6" uses. Those that geocaching could fit within are better served by "virtual" caches like Earthcaches or Waymarks in the opinion of the USFWS and knowledgeable and informed Refuge managers.

[+NeverSummer]

<snip>

All that being said, I can see where some refuges would allow caches and some wouldn't. Hopefully by understanding what the local refuge manager has to consider would help you better sell the idea of a cache on a refuge or to better understand why it would be denied. <snip>

No geocaches are allowed on NWR lands, period. If you have come across one, you should log a Need Archived, based on the USFWS statement from 2003.

 

The only reason a geocache would be on Refuge land is 1) if someone from the USFWS or NWR was consulted and didn't know the overarching rules from the National office 2) someone just placed the cache and claimed to the unfamiliar Reviewer that permissions were granted (via checkbox or possibly more "explicit" claims) 3) the Reviewer was unaware of Refuge boundaries when it was submitted for review (many maps were not yet available to Reviewers from Refuges until recent years) 4) the Reviewer was not the normal Reviewer for that area in which the cache was published 5) if that Refuge has expanded since publication.

 

In any case, it is best that if you are aware of a geocache that is within a NWR, it must be removed and the listing archived. If one doesn't report it, there could be complications or damaged relationships for future cooperation.

 

This isn't unlike restrictions on schools, airports, railroads and wilderness. Some folks undoubtedly think all areas should be open to geocaching, but that is, unfortunately, not the reality we all live in.

[Mr.Yuck]

<snip>

All that being said, I can see where some refuges would allow caches and some wouldn't. Hopefully by understanding what the local refuge manager has to consider would help you better sell the idea of a cache on a refuge or to better understand why it would be denied. <snip>

No geocaches are allowed on NWR lands, period. If you have come across one, you should log a Need Archived, based on the USFWS statement from 2003.

 

The only reason a geocache would be on Refuge land is 1) if someone from the USFWS or NWR was consulted and didn't know the overarching rules from the National office 2) someone just placed the cache and claimed to the unfamiliar Reviewer that permissions were granted (via checkbox or possibly more "explicit" claims) 3) the Reviewer was unaware of Refuge boundaries when it was submitted for review (many maps were not yet available to Reviewers from Refuges until recent years) 4) the Reviewer was not the normal Reviewer for that area in which the cache was published 5) if that Refuge has expanded since publication.

 

In any case, it is best that if you are aware of a geocache that is within a NWR, it must be removed and the listing archived. If one doesn't report it, there could be complications or damaged relationships for future cooperation.

 

This isn't unlike restrictions on schools, airports, railroads and wilderness. Some folks undoubtedly think all areas should be open to geocaching, but that is, unfortunately, not the reality we all live in.

 

Interesting. Thank you. But it appears to me that several people have gotten permission from their local managers. In my observations over the years, this is quite common in the levels of bureaucracy people have had to deal with over Geocache placements. One person says yes, without knowing another (and often higher authority) has said no.

 

Anywho, my local NWR is in compliance. It had one cache, which I found in about 2003. It was placed in 2002, and archived in 2004 or 2005, because of the no caches rule. There's nothing on the map there now.

[+IslandsAndOcean]

<snip>

All that being said, I can see where some refuges would allow caches and some wouldn't. Hopefully by understanding what the local refuge manager has to consider would help you better sell the idea of a cache on a refuge or to better understand why it would be denied. <snip>

No geocaches are allowed on NWR lands, period. If you have come across one, you should log a Need Archived, based on the USFWS statement from 2003.

 

The only reason a geocache would be on Refuge land is 1) if someone from the USFWS or NWR was consulted and didn't know the overarching rules from the National office 2) someone just placed the cache and claimed to the unfamiliar Reviewer that permissions were granted (via checkbox or possibly more "explicit" claims) 3) the Reviewer was unaware of Refuge boundaries when it was submitted for review (many maps were not yet available to Reviewers from Refuges until recent years) 4) the Reviewer was not the normal Reviewer for that area in which the cache was published 5) if that Refuge has expanded since publication.

 

In any case, it is best that if you are aware of a geocache that is within a NWR, it must be removed and the listing archived. If one doesn't report it, there could be complications or damaged relationships for future cooperation.

 

This isn't unlike restrictions on schools, airports, railroads and wilderness. Some folks undoubtedly think all areas should be open to geocaching, but that is, unfortunately, not the reality we all live in.

 

Interesting. Thank you. But it appears to me that several people have gotten permission from their local managers. In my observations over the years, this is quite common in the levels of bureaucracy people have had to deal with over Geocache placements. One person says yes, without knowing another (and often higher authority) has said no.

 

Anywho, my local NWR is in compliance. It had one cache, which I found in about 2003. It was placed in 2002, and archived in 2004 or 2005, because of the no caches rule. There's nothing on the map there now.

 

Glad to hear your local NWR is all in order. A search on www.fws.gov of "geocaching" will bring up a number of Refuges that are participating in a Multi- or Mystery-cache which would involve visiting the Refuge, but finding the cache at an Administrative site (their office). Each Refuge that has a "geocaching" activity at their site clearly states that there are no circumstances in which a container should be placed on Refuge lands.

 

Again, if you live near a Wildlife Refuge and know that there is a geocache there, please post a note for the Reviewer to have the cache archived, and remove the container from the area. It is likely that the circumstances listed above are why the geocache is there in the first place, and negligence or "being unaware of the rules" are not valid excuses to keep a cache on Refuge lands.

 

Please help keep Geocaching in a good light with the USFWS, so that the continued partnerships and possible expansion of the game can take place on good terms. The better we all do at self-policing the "no physical container" policy of the USFWS Refuge system, the better it will look when we continue to meet with TPTB to possibly allow geocaching in the future.

Edited October 27, 2012 by IslandsAndOcean

[+NeverSummer]

There are several staffed placed, and one cacher placed geocaches, published with verified with NWR manager approval at the Key Deer National Wildlife Refuge, and there's one at the Pelican Island National Wildlife Refuge in Florida. I recall that there are caches in one of the midwest NWR, and I believe one of the NWR in California. Sorry, I meant to bookmark those when I saw them, but didn't do it.

 

Just as the National Park Service has changed course re caches, and now allows local managers to permit them, local NWR managers are sometimes willing to allow caches. I suspect that the 2003 memo is forgotten or never seen by local NWR managers, and geocaching is no longer the misunderstood "search for buried treasure" that it was a decade ago.

Sounds like these managers didn't know the rules. Best to post notes about these ones to get them removed, based on the system-wide Refuge container ban.

[+Blue Man]

There are several staffed placed, and one cacher placed geocaches, published with verified with NWR manager approval at the Key Deer National Wildlife Refuge, and there's one at the Pelican Island National Wildlife Refuge in Florida. I recall that there are caches in one of the midwest NWR, and I believe one of the NWR in California. Sorry, I meant to bookmark those when I saw them, but didn't do it.

 

Just as the National Park Service has changed course re caches, and now allows local managers to permit them, local NWR managers are sometimes willing to allow caches. I suspect that the 2003 memo is forgotten or never seen by local NWR managers, and geocaching is no longer the misunderstood "search for buried treasure" that it was a decade ago.

Sounds like these managers didn't know the rules. Best to post notes about these ones to get them removed, based on the system-wide Refuge container ban.

 

A better option might be to contact the refuge manager directly. I would not presume that a handful of geocachers and/or USFWS employees, especially if they are not employed at the NWR in question, know the details of the situation better than the person who gave permission for the cache placement. If the listing was submitted with information indicating that permission was obtained, the volunteer reviewers shouldn't put themselves in the position of interpreting the internal policy of a federal agency. If Groundspeak was to be directly contacted by the refuge manager, however, the listing should be dealt with appropriately and immediately.

[+NeverSummer]

There are several staffed placed, and one cacher placed geocaches, published with verified with NWR manager approval at the Key Deer National Wildlife Refuge, and there's one at the Pelican Island National Wildlife Refuge in Florida. I recall that there are caches in one of the midwest NWR, and I believe one of the NWR in California. Sorry, I meant to bookmark those when I saw them, but didn't do it.

 

Just as the National Park Service has changed course re caches, and now allows local managers to permit them, local NWR managers are sometimes willing to allow caches. I suspect that the 2003 memo is forgotten or never seen by local NWR managers, and geocaching is no longer the misunderstood "search for buried treasure" that it was a decade ago.

Sounds like these managers didn't know the rules. Best to post notes about these ones to get them removed, based on the system-wide Refuge container ban.

 

A better option might be to contact the refuge manager directly. I would not presume that a handful of geocachers and/or USFWS employees, especially if they are not employed at the NWR in question, know the details of the situation better than the person who gave permission for the cache placement. If the listing was submitted with information indicating that permission was obtained, the volunteer reviewers shouldn't put themselves in the position of interpreting the internal policy of a federal agency. If Groundspeak was to be directly contacted by the refuge manager, however, the listing should be dealt with appropriately and immediately.

I disagree. As an employee of the USFWS, I am familiar with the ban, and why it exists. IslandsAndOcean laid it out with the mention of the "Big 6" Refuge uses for outreach. The Service has weighed in on the issue in 2003, and said there are no geocaches allowed on Refuge lands. In this case, the Reviewer may have made a mistake, as they were perhaps not familiar enough with the conditions of the Refuge system-wide ban on physical geocaches.

 

The way to handle this is to archive the caches, and contact the owner and land manager to remind them of the USFWS ruling of physical geocaches. To have a geocache on lands that are off-limits sets an infectious bad example that will be even more difficult to enforce if more people improperly follow suit and "get permission" from their Manager. Refuge Managers don't have the authority to grant physical geocaches on Refuges, as the authority above them ruled them as not allowed.

[Mr.Yuck]

There are several staffed placed, and one cacher placed geocaches, published with verified with NWR manager approval at the Key Deer National Wildlife Refuge, and there's one at the Pelican Island National Wildlife Refuge in Florida. I recall that there are caches in one of the midwest NWR, and I believe one of the NWR in California. Sorry, I meant to bookmark those when I saw them, but didn't do it.

 

Just as the National Park Service has changed course re caches, and now allows local managers to permit them, local NWR managers are sometimes willing to allow caches. I suspect that the 2003 memo is forgotten or never seen by local NWR managers, and geocaching is no longer the misunderstood "search for buried treasure" that it was a decade ago.

Sounds like these managers didn't know the rules. Best to post notes about these ones to get them removed, based on the system-wide Refuge container ban.

 

Editing as you were posting the same time as me. Do you know the author of the email in November 2003 banning Geocaching? Does he even still work for USFWS?

Edited November 1, 2012 by Mr.Yuck

[+NeverSummer]

There are several staffed placed, and one cacher placed geocaches, published with verified with NWR manager approval at the Key Deer National Wildlife Refuge, and there's one at the Pelican Island National Wildlife Refuge in Florida. I recall that there are caches in one of the midwest NWR, and I believe one of the NWR in California. Sorry, I meant to bookmark those when I saw them, but didn't do it.

 

Just as the National Park Service has changed course re caches, and now allows local managers to permit them, local NWR managers are sometimes willing to allow caches. I suspect that the 2003 memo is forgotten or never seen by local NWR managers, and geocaching is no longer the misunderstood "search for buried treasure" that it was a decade ago.

Sounds like these managers didn't know the rules. Best to post notes about these ones to get them removed, based on the system-wide Refuge container ban.

 

Editing as you were posting the same time as me. Do you know the author of the email in November 2003 banning Geocaching? Does he even still work for USFWS?

I don't know the author, but I have been working rigorously to find out. I am currently working with a Regional office level partner on Region-level geocaching program initiatives, and we are looking into it. Out hope is to eventually see the ban lifted, however the reasoning for the ban is pretty clear in the eyes of USFWS personnel. Unfortunately, right now, the view is that physical geocaches do not fit the "big 6" recreational uses of NWRs. It will be a good discussion to continue to work on, but it will be helpful if, in the meantime, others continue to follow the ban.

[+Maingray]

physical geocaches do not fit the "big 6" recreational uses of NWRs.

 

My personal opinion is that education is the key for these areas. "Environmental Education" is always one of the big six for NWR and state-controlled Parks, and this is the key to allowing (workable) permit systems / controlled placements in NWR and other areas. Getting geocaching listed as a Environmental Educational resource in the State (as happened in North Carolina couple of years ago) can really help with this when working with the larger land agencies. EC are one thing; but geology is not the be all and end all and some nicely worked up multicaches (for example) that tie in with the Park's educational displays and educational mandate are the key for physical cache placement in NWR and NWR-esque lands.

[+NeverSummer]

physical geocaches do not fit the "big 6" recreational uses of NWRs.

 

My personal opinion is that education is the key for these areas. "Environmental Education" is always one of the big six for NWR and state-controlled Parks, and this is the key to allowing (workable) permit systems / controlled placements in NWR and other areas. Getting geocaching listed as a Environmental Educational resource in the State (as happened in North Carolina couple of years ago) can really help with this when working with the larger land agencies. EC are one thing; but geology is not the be all and end all and some nicely worked up multicaches (for example) that tie in with the Park's educational displays and educational mandate are the key for physical cache placement in NWR and NWR-esque lands.

Believe me, Maingray, as a trained and professional educator and interpreter, I get it. I think the EE at Refuges would benefit from things like GPS and location-based learning.

 

However, the USFWS stance is currently that you don't need a physical container to do that. Earthcaches are one successful option. Caches at the administrative office for the Refuge (Visitor Center, etc) that take you on a multi-path through the Refuge is another successful model at many Refuges.

 

The thing is, there are already classes taught at many Refuges about GPS. They will use the biology research they are doing as the icon, and help kids see how GPS works, how to use a unit, and to find/mark wayppoints. This has been be done without permanent physical containers. This is one class that is offered in the more "formal" sense.

 

From there, Refuges (and NPS, BLM, etc, for that matter) have casual, very informal interactions with visitors. One of these interactions can be about geocaches--physical or Earthcaches. In these cases, the USFWS still believes that the "Big 6" can still be accomplished without a physical container on Refuge lands. Many, not all, Refuges have sensitive areas that some staff are unaware of. (Think of the old "left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing thing.)

 

The big issue is that you don't have to have a physical container to make a cache about the "Education" part of the 6 recreational uses. Convincing the big wigs in D.C. that a physical cache would be necessary for an educational aspect of a Refuge's use has been a 9-year discussion. Believe me, it's being worked on from within.

[+IslandsAndOcean]

Note the article posted by jellis. It is clearly stated in that fws.gov news statement that containers can not be left on Refuge lands. Earthcaches, and physical containers at administrative sites are the workarounds for geocaching on USFWS National Wildlife Refuges.