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DukeOfURL01

Which one?

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So I was out caching today, and I saw this. It looks so bad that I can't even tell the markings. I recorded the coordinates as HH2: N40 02.110 W121 43.118 Now, there are 3 marks at this place. Which one do you think it is?

 

Photo1.jpg

Photo3.jpg

Photo2.jpg

Edited by DukeOfURL01

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So I was out caching today, and I saw this. It looks so bad that I can't even tell the markings. I recorded the coordinates as HH2: N40 02.110 W121 43.118 Now, there are 3 marks at this place. Which one do you think it is?

 

I am assuming the three marks are for triangulation station Campbellville. (if I did my coordinate search correct)

 

http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_mark.prl?PidBox=LT0708

 

It is going to be one of the two reference marks, as I can make out part of the words "reference mark" on the right-hand side of the disk. You can read the nc and rk parts.

 

EDIT: I can also make out the word Campbell in the middle, so it's safe to say for sure now that it's a reference mark for the station.

 

From reading the datasheet boxscore for Campbellville and the 1949 recovery report, this one appears to have two pairs of reference marks. One pair was placed by the USGS and the other pair by USC&GS. I can also read on the disk where you found one of the USC&GS reference marks.

 

You could go back and find the triangulation station Campbellville, then do a measurement and compass direction search to figure out exactly which reference mark you found. You could even do a reverse azimuth from the RM and find the station.

Edited by LSUFan

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After reading the description for LT0708 CAMPBELLVILLE it appears that you did not find any of the 3 marks listed at the given coordinates.

 

What you appear to have found is an RM for "Campbellville", Not the station mark, since that is set in concrete and the RMs are set in boulders. The RMs for "CAMP" are set in the concrete base of the lookout tower, not in boulders. The "CAMPBELLVILLE" RMs are set in boulders.

 

Without being there it is impossible to tell which RM you found. Where is/was the house and driveway? Where is the base of the lookout tower?

 

I'm guessing that "CAMP" RMs are for the Tower that is now gone.

 

 

John

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From reading the datasheet boxscore for Campbellville and the 1949 recovery report, this one appears to have two pairs of reference marks. One pair was placed by the USGS and the other pair by USC&GS. I can also read on the disk where you found one of the USC&GS reference marks.

 

Would they not have numbered the second pair of RMs as RM3 & RM4 and use the same name ("CAMPBELLVILLE" not "CAMP")?

 

John

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I think a little more info is needed here. The way I see it, the Mark is shown atop a boulder in Pic# 2. IMO, That would make it L0706 CAMP 1948 RM 1 USGS. Yes, the Designation says for RM1 "CAMP 1948 RM 1 USGS", but the description for the Station Mark (LT0708) says that RM1 is stamped "CAMPBELLVILLE NO 1 1948". Now....does pic #3 show a Mark under the sunglasses? Most likely not, because if that is a Mark on top of the boulder in Pic #2, another Mark would most likely, not be placed that close to a Sister Mark. Just my 2 cents.

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From reading the datasheet boxscore for Campbellville and the 1949 recovery report, this one appears to have two pairs of reference marks. One pair was placed by the USGS and the other pair by USC&GS. I can also read on the disk where you found one of the USC&GS reference marks.

 

Would they not have numbered the second pair of RMs as RM3 & RM4 and use the same name ("CAMPBELLVILLE" not "CAMP")?

 

John

 

Here is a pair of marks where there are 2 sets of RMs numbered 1 & 2 per each set, but they are for 2 different benchmarks.

 

SHINARUMP CAIRN

 

SHINARUMP

 

Both of these marks are and RMs are within about 50 feet of each other.

 

Perhaps the lookout tower had its own PID, but is now classified as destroyed and does not show in the current list of nearby benchmarks.

 

John

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All,

 

I can see enough letters to make it a spelled out 'CAMPBELLVILLE' RM and the CGS #2 is the only one that plots out close to the slab that is shown on Google Earth. A sunset bearing line for that Lat/Long

 

LATE AFTERNOON SUN SHADOW

 

is consistent with the photo shadows.

 

However; what did CGS find in 1949?

 

LT0708 STATION RECOVERY (1949)

LT0708

 

----------

 

LT0708'

LT0708'REFERENCE MARK 2 IS A STANDARD DISK, STAMPED CAMPBELLVILLE

LT0708'1948 WELDED ON THE TOP OF A 2-INCH IRON PIPE.

 

kayakbird

 

Edit: Looking at GE a bit more, there appears to be some vegetation and maybe a dirt mound between the 1935 and 1941 USGS marks that got 'ADJUSTED' in 1948 and became CAMP 1948 RM 1 USGS & CAMP 1948 RM 2 USGS (may or may not have been over-stamped with that lettering). The old drive can be detected and measures about right from CGS RM 1 & 2. The footprint of the ranger house is still there and the bearing/distance for CGS RM 1 may be in an undisturbed area.

 

Sure would be worth another look. Might even pick up the AZ. MEL

 

Edit: C/P from GE

 

CAMPBELLVILLE COMPLEX

 

48fd5f8c-82f1-4895-9f8f-97416c967e8a.jpg

Edited by kayakbird

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The lookout tower doesn't exist, hasn't for many years. The only thing that remains of it is the concrete slab that it sat on, which the jeep is parked on.

 

Yeah, from the Google Earth picture above, it it likely RM2, that is the approximate place I found it.

 

I didn't know about these marks ahead of time when going here, I was after the geocaches near here. :-)

But next time I go here, I'll be more thorough.

Edited by DukeOfURL01

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-----The only thing that remains of it is the concrete slab that it sat on, which the jeep is parked on.

 

 

Duke,

 

I think that is a newer concrete slab. Most LOT's of that era were built with individual support leg footings.

 

LT0708'STAMPED CAMP NO 1 1935, SET IN SOUTHWEST CONCRETE BASE OF OLD

---------------------------------------------------

LT0708'STAMPED BWS 59 4019 1941 NO 2 1935, SET IN THE SOUTHEAST

LT0708'CONCRETE BASE OF OLD LOOKOUT TOWER AND PROJECTS ABOUT 30

LT0708'INCHES. CONCRETE BASE IS A 30 IN X 30 IN SQUARE.

 

And maybe I'm starting to trust the x & y from Google Earth a bit too much, but I think that the 3 five decimal second map pins would be a good place to start scratching around. MEL

Edited by kayakbird

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Hmm, yeah, it sounds like you're right. A friend of mine refers to that place as "The Helipad" But I don't think it is a helipad because usually they have things painted on them. But it's the right size and shape, and location, so I guess it could be a helipad. There's a known emergency helipad in another part of the forest a several miles from here, so that only makes sense I guess. That one is just cleared dirt and a couple signs though.

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Based on the position you provided it looks like you found RM 2 (DB6972). Using the distance and direction from the main station the position for RM 2 would be 40 02.110/121 43.116

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How do I log this one? I'm having trouble looking up DB6972, and also why doesn't it show on the Scaredy Cat map?

Edited by DukeOfURL01

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How do I log this one? I'm having trouble looking up DB6972, and also why doesn't it show on the Scaredy Cat map?

 

Did you check "include destroyed marks"?

 

John

 

When I look it up via the Datasheet Page, it returns

Msg=FATAL_ERROR - No Marks found

 

This happens whether I have "include destroyed marks" checked or not, I tried both ways.

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It pops right up as a non-published mark on the NGS DATASHEET retrieval page. MEL

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pid Name Lat Lon Elev O o Hv

------ ----------------------------- ---------- ----------- --------- - - --

>DB6972 CAMPBELLVILLE RM 2 40 02 07. /121 43 07. DD

>DB6972 CAMPBELLVILLE RM 2 40 02 07. /121 43 07. NN

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It pops right up as a non-published mark on the NGS DATASHEET retrieval page. MEL

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pid Name Lat Lon Elev O o Hv

------ ----------------------------- ---------- ----------- --------- - - --

>DB6972 CAMPBELLVILLE RM 2 40 02 07. /121 43 07. DD

>DB6972 CAMPBELLVILLE RM 2 40 02 07. /121 43 07. NN

 

Is that what the stuff at the bottom means? I didn't even know there was such thing as a non-published mark.

 

Why are there two entries for the same PID though?

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It pops right up as a non-published mark on the NGS DATASHEET retrieval page. MEL

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pid Name Lat Lon Elev O o Hv

------ ----------------------------- ---------- ----------- --------- - - --

>DB6972 CAMPBELLVILLE RM 2 40 02 07. /121 43 07. DD

>DB6972 CAMPBELLVILLE RM 2 40 02 07. /121 43 07. NN

 

Is that what the stuff at the bottom means? I didn't even know there was such thing as a non-published mark.

 

Why are there two entries for the same PID though?

 

DD = No Descriptive Text Available. NN = No Geodetic Control. The NN I don't quite get, but the DD explains why it is nonpub, it doesn't have a description of exactly what it is. That also explains why it's not on the benchmark site since that doesn't do nonpub marks. (Azimuth mark disks and sometimes reference mark disks that have a PID but no description also can show up as nonpub marks, along with temporary marks in Browse Mode and destroyed marks.)

 

Edit: Should have spent a moment longer looking at the data above. That is a reference mark for this station:

http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_mark.prl?PidBox=LT0708

Edited by EdrickV

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