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Cachers leaving TB's OUTSIDE of micro caches


slukster

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Here is a recent log on one of my caches:

 

Found the cache in our second try. I left two trackables attached to the magnet of the cache and placed the cache underneath the marble right in the corner. It's covered up with a little bit of dirt in order to hide from muggles. It's actually in the other flower bed farther away from the street corner. Maybe CO can go get the TB's in order to place them in a better cache, but they are pretty well hidden unless someone is actually looking for them. Tftc!

 

Besides the fact that the TB's and my cache will surely disappear the next time the gardener comes around, the cache has not been replaced where I hid it! It is a magentic micro hidden on the bottom of a metal railing around a planter. The cacher is from out of state and has over 100 finds. I guess they do things differently in his state. I tried to be nice when I emailed him telling him that a TB should never be left outside of a micro container, especially in an urban environment, but I can't promise it was my nicest email. :o Luckily the next cacher found everything and made things right:

 

Hmm.. because of the 'new' hide by the last cacher the hint wasnt really correct anymore and we saw 2 groups of geocachers who where focussed on that hint (because the reception is really bad) and didnt find it. We tried after them and after we didnt find it the way we expected I looked a little underneath it and saw something in the dirt. That was pretty disgusting, as were the TB's. We took them with us, cleaned it up and replaced it the way it should be!! So people please keep it that way so everybody can find it easily with the given hints.

 

I then checked my other micro caches in the area to see if he left TB's anywhere else and found this log:

 

Tftc! Still looking for the other cache on 44th street to place a TB in, but not having luck yet.

NO!! Don't do it. :mad:

 

The cacher responded to my email:

 

Whoa there, big guy. I feel quite content with what I did. I noticed the cache is visited virtually every day, so I was comfortable leaving very detailed and specific notes for the next finder to know exactly where to find it. We visited several caches in the city on our only night there. All were nano or micro, so this was my best option. The gardeners can easily find your cache anyway. Carry on...

 

And then after he read the log from the cacher who found the cache after him, he posted this note to the cache page:

Disgusting, really??? You people really need to take a chill pill. I rehid the cache all of about two inches from where I found it. A little bit of potting soil dirt disgusted you? Wow, you must really be a serious germophobe. I felt quite comfortable leaving very specific, detailed notes about what I did so the next finder could retrieve the TBs and hide back where the CO intended, which is exactly what happened. Get over yourselves.

 

The thing is that this isn't the first time this has happened on one of my micro caches. About a month ago I received this log on another of my micro caches in NYC:

Found it!

Geocoin dropped off.

TFTC

There is no way this coin could have fit in my bison tube! I had to mark it missing and then the TB owner said that the coin was in the hands of the security guard on the property (he emailed the cacher who left it to find this out. Security is very aware of the cache although I could not find one who knew about the geocoin).

 

I guess I get frustrated because the poor people who own these TB's are losing their TB's and I can only imagine these cachers are doing this everywhere they go.

 

Anybody else seeing this on their micro caches?

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I've seen on micro caches in general. With more and more people putting out micro caches instead of caches that can hold the myraid of trackables floating around people with trackables (I know from my experience) are having more trouble finding spots to put these items. I find it's is particularly problematic where there seems to be a proliferation of micros and nanos for a larger radius.

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I think the best plan is for one or more of the TB owners to send him a polite note explaining to him that he shouldn't take TBs if he won't be able to hold them until he finds a suitable cache to put them. Although it sounds like your relation with him is already shot, it might help if you point out that his 2 inches demonstrably made all the difference, causing two DNFs.

 

I think the explicit examples -- DNFs and a lost geocoin -- are the important things to stress rather than trying to argue with him about external transfers in general. I've done a couple successful external transfers and grabbed one. I even launched a TB encouraging people to try external transfers with it; it was quickly lost, but not because of an external transfer. Although they're dangerous, they can work out OK. So don't focus on whether they can or can't ever work, but, rather, with the fact that they didn't work in these cases, so perhaps he shouldn't try again until he knows more. Then, hopefully, when he knows more, he'll know enough not to do them.

 

With 100 caches, my guess is that he caches very rarely and had some TBs burning a hole in his pocket that he felt he had to get rid of at all cost else they'd be in his pocket for another 6 months. That's why I suggest, more than anything else, he being encouraged to not pick up TBs to begin with if he finds himself in that situation so often.

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Here is the cache in question for anyone that is interested. GC1WQC9

 

For the record I think you handled this better than I would. Cachers moving caches they feel are out of place is bad enough but moving them because they just have to leave a TB is ridiculous! Why was it so important that they leave a TB that they were willing to risk a cache and TB being muggled? I do not know about others, if I had to choose between my bug meeting its goal or not getting muggled I would choose not muggled every time!

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Well that brings back a funny memory! I was caching in one of those "school forests" near a middle school and our final cache of the day was a micro in the woods. Took us awhile to find the cache but right next to it was a 6 inch tall action figure with a hole drilled in his chest and a travel bug attached. Turns out he had been marked as missing about a year earlier. He went missing again now. Hope someone else finds him resting near a film canister! :laughing:

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Here is the cache in question for anyone that is interested. GC1WQC9

 

For the record I think you handled this better than I would. Cachers moving caches they feel are out of place is bad enough but moving them because they just have to leave a TB is ridiculous! Why was it so important that they leave a TB that they were willing to risk a cache and TB being muggled? I do not know about others, if I had to choose between my bug meeting its goal or not getting muggled I would choose not muggled every time!

 

When I read the the OP, I was certain we were reading about someone who does not own a placed cache or a trackable. Guess what? He seems to have a pretty cavalier attitude towards other people's property. What gets me is that he obviously knows that what he was doing was wrong because he suggests that the cache owner come and take responsibility for the trackables that he left buried in the planter.

 

I can not even think of the proper way to deal with such a person. He knows he's wrong but when you point it out, he gets defensive and insulting. Probably best to just go and fix the problem and hope that it's a long time before he's needs to come and drop trackables in the big city again.

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why not drive a little bit out of the big city and find a proper and safe container for trackables on their jurney ?

come on, even in a city, if you search a little bit, you will find a good cache for TB,

if compleetly impossible to find good big cache, no time,

then log a visit of the TB and take it back home with you,

BUT NEWER EVER NO NO A MILION TIMES !! DO NOT MODIFY A CACHE OR ITS LOCATION

AND DO NEWER EVER PUT A TB OUTSIDE A CACHE,

It is a lot better just to take it home with you, keep it safe, for as long as it takes,

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One of our TB's was left in a cache in Nicaragua. Rather, it was not left IN the cache, which was too small to hold it, but in the plastic bag around the cache. That cache is only found every couple of months, so of course, our TB has never been seen since...

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This TB is made not to go inside of cache. Someone please go get it and bring it back to where people live. :laughing:

Oh my! You could practically put a cache inside the TB, instead of the other way around! :laughing:

One of the times I moved that one, I was tempted to put the bison inside the TB, but just hid it under the stump the micro was on.

 

If it's still there in about 4 weeks, I'm planning to swing past to get it on the move again...

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AND DO NEVER EVER PUT A TB OUTSIDE A CACHE,

It is a lot better just to take it home with you, keep it safe, for as long as it takes,

There are two examples already in this thread that disprove this statement, but I remember my first LPC - a film can with several trade items and TB's under the cover - all "outside" the cache.. It took a moment to find which was the cache! :laughing:

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at a local Danish event, actually several !! the TB trafic cone from USA pops up all the time,

someone new is crasy enought to drag it home with them all the time :-)

it is newer going to be left in a real cache, just one of those event pranks I guess.

Edited by OZ2CPU
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personally, I agree with Jester that some TBs are so big that they can't fit inside but I am not sure I would think it proves its okay to leave a TB outside the cache. I think those cool TBs like a huge bowling ball or a refrigerator door, or a toaster, or some of the other mondo TBs are best handed off at events. I can see why folks would want to place those next to a really isolated forest cache, but not sure I would want to just leave someone's TB out in the open unless that owner said its okay to do so.

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When I read the the OP, I was certain we were reading about someone who does not own a placed cache or a trackable. Guess what? He seems to have a pretty cavalier attitude towards other people's property. What gets me is that he obviously knows that what he was doing was wrong because he suggests that the cache owner come and take responsibility for the trackables that he left buried in the planter.

 

I can not even think of the proper way to deal with such a person. He knows he's wrong but when you point it out, he gets defensive and insulting. Probably best to just go and fix the problem and hope that it's a long time before he's needs to come and drop trackables in the big city again.

I also noticed that he had hung on to this TB for 9 months and logged it at every cache he visited. The goal of the TB is to put on the most miles in a year which he clearly helped but I would think the TB owner would have liked to see it travel the world with many cachers rather than in the hands of one guy (to his credit, he did travel to Belize within 2 weeks of grabbing it, which added thousands of miles to the TB but then it stayed in Kansas the rest of the time). I have heard of people hanging on to a personal TB and logging them at each cache they visit to keep track of their travel's but never someone else's TB (unless they have permission from the owner, who lives in TX). And we all know that it is not uncommon for people to hang onto TB's for months before finally placing them, often after a nudge from the TB owner.

 

Does anyone else see this as unusual behavior?

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When I read the the OP, I was certain we were reading about someone who does not own a placed cache or a trackable. Guess what? He seems to have a pretty cavalier attitude towards other people's property. What gets me is that he obviously knows that what he was doing was wrong because he suggests that the cache owner come and take responsibility for the trackables that he left buried in the planter.

 

I can not even think of the proper way to deal with such a person. He knows he's wrong but when you point it out, he gets defensive and insulting. Probably best to just go and fix the problem and hope that it's a long time before he's needs to come and drop trackables in the big city again.

I also noticed that he had hung on to this TB for 9 months and logged it at every cache he visited. The goal of the TB is to put on the most miles in a year which he clearly helped but I would think the TB owner would have liked to see it travel the world with many cachers rather than in the hands of one guy (to his credit, he did travel to Belize within 2 weeks of grabbing it, which added thousands of miles to the TB but then it stayed in Kansas the rest of the time). I have heard of people hanging on to a personal TB and logging them at each cache they visit to keep track of their travel's but never someone else's TB (unless they have permission from the owner, who lives in TX). And we all know that it is not uncommon for people to hang onto TB's for months before finally placing them, often after a nudge from the TB owner.

 

Does anyone else see this as unusual behavior?

 

I'd state my opinion, but I value my right to post here and don't want to lose it.

:ph34r:

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I have heard of people hanging on to a personal TB and logging them at each cache they visit to keep track of their travel's but never someone else's TB (unless they have permission from the owner, who lives in TX).

 

Does anyone else see this as unusual behavior?

Unusual? Alas, no. Undesirable? I'd say.

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I also noticed that he had hung on to this TB for 9 months and logged it at every cache he visited. The goal of the TB is to put on the most miles in a year which he clearly helped but I would think the TB owner would have liked to see it travel the world with many cachers rather than in the hands of one guy (to his credit, he did travel to Belize within 2 weeks of grabbing it, which added thousands of miles to the TB but then it stayed in Kansas the rest of the time). I have heard of people hanging on to a personal TB and logging them at each cache they visit to keep track of their travel's but never someone else's TB (unless they have permission from the owner, who lives in TX). And we all know that it is not uncommon for people to hang onto TB's for months before finally placing them, often after a nudge from the TB owner.

 

Does anyone else see this as unusual behavior?

 

Well, we do have a local who visits every TB into every cache. All that does is clutter up the TB page.

 

Anybody hear any news on the TB that someone took to Central Park,NYC, but couldn't find a cache big enough? So s/he left it hanging on a park bench.

 

I did have a TB that was too large for any cache. My sisater tried sending me a camoed pink lawn flamingo. It did make it as far as an event in New Hampshire. Oh, well.

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I had someone pick up my Cherokee Challenge Geocoin in North Dakota and leave it under a ledge in a vault toilet in Yellowstone National Park. For all I know, it's still there. So, if anyone is visiting Yellowstone, 3.48 miles west of the East Entrance, you might find my coin!

 

looks like that person who had it created their geocaching account the day they "found" this coin, just so they could log it as missing. Without that, you might not even know half of the story. That is a strange tale on that one.

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in our area TBs and coins go missing whether left properly or not. To be honest, have found 7000+ caches and have noticed a TB lying loose next to the container only about 2 times so have not seen an epidemic of this.

 

Been around a while supporting Tbs and haven't heard it that often either.

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Last year I noticed a log on a local cache here in the woods of Mississippi. It basically said the cacher was unable to reach the ammo can due to the poison ivy. He left a travel bug hanging in a tree about 30 yards away, right on the trail.

 

I grabbed it the next day, and drove it all the way to Montana soon after. Sadly, it went missing from that cache the next week. So I guess I didn't really help it too much.

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I've only come across this type of thing once. The cache was a small box, the TB was too big to fit so it was put in a plastic bag and attached to the outside of the cache with a rubber band. It was in a city where there were few or no large caches; I guess the person who left it thought it might fit but when it didn't decided to leave it outside. The cache with attachment was well hidden and I found it and moved the TB along so no harm was done - but I agree it's not generally a good idea.

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Oh, for Pete's sake. Someday when I grow up, I'll be able to join the elite geocaching club with you all.

 

First off, I'm sorry. I understand now that I have committed a cardinal sin in geocaching. I promise that I will never do it again.

 

Anyhoo.... Slukster's email to me was not kind, as he suggested. It was rude, condescending and belittling and labeled with ALL CAPS in a couple of places. I see you happily post my notes verbatim, but you conveniently forget to post your own email to me. Why is that?

 

There are numerous DNF’s on the log of this particular cache. My placement after finding it had nothing to do with somebody else posting a DNF. For someone to blame my actions on subsequent DNF's is foolish.

 

I didn’t get defensive and insulting. I responded to a rude note from the CO who insulted me in the first place. You can talk about how I made such a mistake and how the cache might have been in perceived danger, but the fact is, everything turned out fine. Which is why I felt comfortable doing what I did. YAY! Everything worked out just fine! For the CO to say the gardners might find the cache, well the gardeners can easily find this cache to begin with. My actions did not change any perceived risk of causing a lost cache.

 

So I held on to a TB for 9 months. Do you guys feel better about yourselves for belittling me for holding onto it for 9 months? For the record, I’ll explain why I kept it so you can rest your minds. The partner TB that went with it went missing about four weeks after I picked up the hare. I emailed the owner of the TB multiple times to see what he wanted me to do with the TB I had. I got no response. So I held onto the TB in hopes the partner TB would be found. It never was found and I never got a response from the TB owner, so I released it again a few months down the road. Does that explanation make the geocaching elite happy?

 

Anyway, the topic of this thread was supposed to be about placing TBs outside of caches. Again, I felt comfortable doing what I did, so I did it. I'm glad the dude's cache was found just fine and the TB's moved on. I'm sorry I made a terrible mistake.

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You can talk about how I made such a mistake and how the cache might have been in perceived danger, but the fact is, everything turned out fine. Which is why I felt comfortable doing what I did. YAY! Everything worked out just fine! For the CO to say the gardners might find the cache, well the gardeners can easily find this cache to begin with. My actions did not change any perceived risk of causing a lost cache.

Just because it worked out okay doesn't mean what you did was okay. You modified the way the CO's cache was hidden without their approval, and moved it to a location where it was more likely to be muggled and no longer matched the hint. If you did the same to one of my caches, I might have a hard time being polite in an email to you, too. Always rehide a cache the way you found it, not the way you think it should be hidden or is most convenient for you. I'm just glad the cachers in my area don't have such a cavalier attitude toward the caches and trackables of others.

 

I emailed the owner of the TB multiple times to see what he wanted me to do with the TB I had.

TBs are meant to travel. The goal of "The Hare" is to "Visit more geocaches and log more miles in one year than the tortoise." What additional information did you require from the owner? The proper thing to do with any trackable is to move it along in a timely manner in such a way that helps it fulfill its goal. Holding it for 9 months wasn't helping it towards its goal and certainly wasn't timely.

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I recovered a TB from the first cache I found on my own and I was stoked.

Until I discovered that most other caches in the area were too small to leave it in.

I'd rather wait and leave any TBs in a good container, than to risk them getting lost.

If it takes too long, I might even post a note on the TB page or a message to the owner.

 

Those stick and bowling ball TBs are awesome. Not sure how I would handle them... Must be hard to keep them travelling.

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I'd rather wait and leave any TBs in a good container, than to risk them getting lost.

And don't forget that you don't have to leave TBs just in caches you're finding the first time. There's nothing wrong with going back to one of your past finds to drop off a TB. If you think back, you can usually very quickly think of a large, safe cache that you've found in the past where you could drop off a TB. I've done this many times when the caches I'm finding have been too small to contain a trackable.

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LOL... Well I took it to a crapload of caches. How is that not helping it to fulfill it's goal, then?

 

You fail to understand that it is not your TB. If you want a TB to take to a carpload of caches, buy one.

 

You fail to understand that I emailed the TB owner repeatedly with no response after the partner TB was reported lost. The guy obviously didn't much care for his "property."

 

It's funny how you list the verbatim goal of the TB saying to visit as many caches as possible and then chide me for taking it to a lot of caches.

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We just came across this for the first time the other day. We were quite surprised to find a TB wrapped around the outside of a magentic key holder. Knowing that this was never going to last that way, we took it with us. When we went to log that we had retrieved it we found that it had never been logged out of the previous cache it was in (which also appeared to be a micro) or logged into this one. I checked cache logs and see that the person who was most likely to have done this had just a couple of finds so he was probably not familiar with trackables. Maybe a newbie mistake but it just seems like common sense to not drop a trackable unless it's large enough to go in the container. We made sure this particular TB not only made it to a cache container large enough for TBs but also one that gets a lot of visitors so it could be on it's way to it's destination again.

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You fail to understand that I emailed the TB owner repeatedly with no response after the partner TB was reported lost. The guy obviously didn't much care for his "property."

I'm still curious about what this additional information is that you required from the TB owner. TBs travel. This one's stated goal is to travel. So, let it travel.

 

It's funny how you list the verbatim goal of the TB saying to visit as many caches as possible and then chide me for taking it to a lot of caches.

I'll grant that you did take it to Louisiana and Belize, but the rest of the time it was just visiting caches in Kansas. I wouldn't have any problem with someone holding one of my TBs for 9 months if they were taking it to far-flung, interesting places for that entire time. 8 months of dipping in Kansas caches? I'm sure Kansas is nice and all, but meh.

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I'd rather wait and leave any TBs in a good container, than to risk them getting lost.

And don't forget that you don't have to leave TBs just in caches you're finding the first time. There's nothing wrong with going back to one of your past finds to drop off a TB. If you think back, you can usually very quickly think of a large, safe cache that you've found in the past where you could drop off a TB. I've done this many times when the caches I'm finding have been too small to contain a trackable.

 

We've done this. We took a TB once that we had intended on moving north as the TB owner requested. But our trip plans changed and after having had it in our possession for more than two weeks we thought it would be better to drop it in a local cache (that we had visited before) that gets a lot of visits and let someone else move it along rather than holding on to it for next time we were going to make the trip we had planned.

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quote]

I'll grant that you did take it to Louisiana and Belize, but the rest of the time it was just visiting caches in Kansas. I wouldn't have any problem with someone holding one of my TBs for 9 months if they were taking it to far-flung, interesting places for that entire time. 8 months of dipping in Kansas caches? I'm sure Kansas is nice and all, but meh.

 

Right... and you likely would have responded to my email asking if you wanted to keep the TB in play or just mail it back to you since the partner TB was lost.

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I'll grant that you did take it to Louisiana and Belize, but the rest of the time it was just visiting caches in Kansas. I wouldn't have any problem with someone holding one of my TBs for 9 months if they were taking it to far-flung, interesting places for that entire time. 8 months of dipping in Kansas caches? I'm sure Kansas is nice and all, but meh.

 

Right... and you likely would have responded to my email asking if you wanted to keep the TB in play or just mail it back to you since the partner TB was lost.

Yes, I would have responded that since it's a travelbug, I would like it to keep traveling. The status of another TB doesn't change its goal.

 

Anyway, we've gone off-topic. In the future, just remember to show more respect towards the caches and trackables of others. Rehide caches the way you found them, and don't drop a trackable outside of a cache unless its TB page expressly states you can do so. You lucked out and things worked out okay this time, but it very easily could have gone badly.

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I had someone pick up my Cherokee Challenge Geocoin in North Dakota and leave it under a ledge in a vault toilet in Yellowstone National Park. For all I know, it's still there. So, if anyone is visiting Yellowstone, 3.48 miles west of the East Entrance, you might find my coin!

looks like that person who had it created their geocaching account the day they "found" this coin, just so they could log it as missing. Without that, you might not even know half of the story. That is a strange tale on that one.

Seems they were muggles, found the cache & TB accidentally, tried to participate in the game but didn't fully understand - and made up an own "hide" for the TB. At least they logged in and told about it. Cool twist to the TB's history - hope you'll find it again. Strange things happen...

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Anyhoo.... Slukster's email to me was not kind, as he suggested. It was rude, condescending and belittling and labeled with ALL CAPS in a couple of places. I see you happily post my notes verbatim, but you conveniently forget to post your own email to me. Why is that?

 

For the record, I never mentioned the cache or the cacher in my initial post (not that it was hard to track down with a little detective work).

 

I tried to be nice when I emailed him telling him that a TB should never be left outside of a micro container, especially in an urban environment, but I can't promise it was my nicest email. :o Luckily the next cacher found everything and made things right:

I did admit that it probably wasn't my nicest email. :ph34r: Since I sent it through GC.com I do not have a record of the email. I actually wanted to go back and check exactly what I wrote to place in this thread but I soon realized I had no way to recover it. PLEASE post my email here for all to see.

 

I see someone beat me to it by notifying newsboy559 about this thread. I had all intentions of notifying them of this thread to illustrate why what they had done was a bad idea.

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