FTF - Is it fair or ethical to allow friends/family to log these BEFORE its published?

[+FrogMastr]

dadgum, i did not event think about that having my son sign in 3-4 line down so leaving 1-2-3 spots for real FTF!

[+NYPaddleCacher]

that is odd,

Do i understand this right ?

when you make a new cache, you dont put a FTF certificate in it,

simply since you dont like/understand/or support the FTF part of it your self ?

it is legal not to, as you say.

Meh, some do, some don't. I don't think any less of COs that don't include a FTF certificate...at this point I'm more appreciative of a CO adding a "Congratulations to JBnW for FTF" on the webpage. Others like the certificate, it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round. I used to include certificates, but in one of my caches I included a 10 Ruble bill ($0.31 USD). I agree that its nice to do something for the FTF, but it isn't required.

 

I'm not interesting in playing the FTF game, have seen enough drama as a result of the FTF game, and numerous examples of instances where those that play the FTF game actually jeopardize the game (i.e. cases where someone enters a park, cemetery, or other location after hours in order to get a FTF), therefore I don't want to enourage others to play the FTF game. As a result, I don't put a FTF certificate, some other FTF prize, or acknowledge FTF on the cache page. I *might* include a FTF prize of some sort if it's for a cache that is very difficult to find or has a very high terrain rating but not for a run of the mill cache.

 

Similarly, I am not into the numbers game. I've also seen enough instances where achieving a high number of finds seems to take precedence over environmental concerns, potential disputes with land managers, and a general sense of being part of the overall geocaching community. As a result, I won't place a cache that exists for no other purpose than to increase the find count of those that find it. As a cache owner, that's my prerogative. If anyone tries to dictate to me, that I should place caches such that it encourages a way to play that game that I generally don't condone it will increase the likelihood of reducing the number of caches I own.

[ll JK ll]

They may have signed the log first but if they were there when the cache was originally placed they didn't make a true find in my book. I understand that some people don't care about the journey and are only after a smiley but to me the journey is the best part of this game. If I were you OP I would consider myself the true FTF.

 

Speaking of FTF, I just made my first a few days ago, a day after my birthday. I saw the email Monday night and when I noticed the virtual log was empty the next morning I ran out to see if I could make the find. I came up short, but returned later in the day and found it. I was very surprised no one else found it because there are a handful of cachers in my area that seem to be FTF hounds.

 

I don't take FTF that seriously but I must admit it's pretty cool to find a cache with an empty log sheet.

[+hzoi]

Dear holy crap. It's threads like these that make me glad I quit not only chasing FTFs myself, but also recognizing the first finders on our caches.

[cezanne]

They may have signed the log first but if they were there when the cache was originally placed they didn't make a true find in my book.

 

We have no information on when they signed the logbook and also no information on from where the finders knew about the cache. If I send a cache of mine for review at gc.com, it will be published maybe 2 days later, sometimes even a week later. When sending off the listing at the same time to some other platform with no review process or publishing my cache in a local forum, those with accounts at both cache sites or a forum account will know about my cache earlier and it is quite normal that they will later also log the cache online at gc.com. Of course, the first finder after publication can claim ftf after publication on gc.com, but that does not mean that those having been at the cache as first cachers are no true first finders or are cheating as someone else claimed. The geocaching world does not only consist of Groundspeak.

 

Cezanne

Edited August 2, 2012 by cezanne

[ll JK ll]

@Cezanne - I understand there are different platforms for publishing caches besides Groundspeak.

 

I see your point but in this scenario it seems unlikely that the cache owner's children happened to be registered with another publishing site and found out about the cache that way. I'm led to believe they were there when the cache was placed, giving them an "unfair" advantage in regard to FTF.

 

Just to be clear - I'm not bothered by this, but if I were a FTF hound and that part of Geocaching blew my skirt up this scenario would be frustrating.

[cezanne]

I see your point but in this scenario it seems unlikely that the cache owner's children happened to be registered with another publishing site and found out about the cache that way.

 

I fully agree, but the OP reports about various scenarios and only in the last one it's about the owner's children.

 

Cezanne

[+fizzymagic]

Dear holy crap. It's threads like these that make me glad I quit not only chasing FTFs myself, but also recognizing the first finders on our caches.

 

+1

[+hofy67]

I think its time for several of you to LET IT GO! This should not have carried on for three pages. I asked a simple question, was berated because I felt it was unfair that the CO's under age 13 children were claiming FTF on two caches placed by their parents days before publishing & if you read back many many posts, another cacher did point out that the children were not utilizing very good 'manners' online with their postings either. They actually posted some nasty remarks, though my posting simply stated: "We were technically FTF, at 147 pm, as it was just published, though someone else signed the log 2 days before publishing" I was not rude about it, I just posted FTF and the time, after published and did acknowledge someone else's find two days before publishing. Both children posted rudely "NA NA NA BOO BOO I WAS FTF HAHAHAHA ON YOU" both of which have since been edited, but still in my book, are not internet etiquette appropriate (yes, I actually do know what that is, as I DO teach internet etiquette to children as well as adults!)

 

Secondly, I really don't care what other sites are out there. I only do Groundspeak's geocaching.com, so, really, Wherigo and all of those others, didn't apply in this nor did they matter!

 

Can you all just let this matter drop? Its gotten beyond ridiculous! Fine, you don't do FTF portion of the game. We do... let's just leave it at that and LET IT GO!

 

MrsHofy

[cezanne]

Secondly, I really don't care what other sites are out there. I only do Groundspeak's geocaching.com, so, really, Wherigo and all of those others, didn't apply in this nor did they matter!

 

Do you recall that you mentioned several examples and not only the one with the children?

I mentioned other cache sites because I typically crosslist my caches and those cachers only using gc.com will have a disadvantage because the caches appear later on gc.com. I'm talking about normal caches, no wherigos or whatever.

 

It is your right not to care about other sites, but those who do will have an advantage on crosslisted caches without needing any private help or anything you might regard as unethical. Keep this in mind for the future.

 

Cezanne

Edited August 2, 2012 by cezanne

[+Sharks-N-Beans]

FTF Certificate? We've never heard of this. Is this a regional thing or have we just completely missed this aspect? We have only encountered a blank log twice in 700+ finds, so it's possible. Our hides have included a small prize (flashlight, unactivated TB etc.) as we know FTF folks sometimes enjoy that, but have never heard of the certificate.

[+Legochugglers]

As a cacher that enjoys the FTF chase I am also fully aware that the OPs scenario is just a typical scenario that we just have to accept as an occupational hazard.

I have come across friends/family pre signing logs from time to time but I have also come across many other issues. Incorrect co-ordinates, placements well outside the guidelines, cache not actually placed yet, etc etc just to mention a few recent ones. I wsould guess that most FTFers are used to the above and accept it as part of the game they play. They will just move on to the next e-mail notification and not get hung up on it.

[+tozainamboku]

In the context of geocaching, however, most people probably expect the FTFer to not only literally "find" the cache but also sign the log book.

 

But I think that is happening only because Groundspeak came up with the unfortunate terms of "found it" and "did not find it" which are not really 1:1 connected to finding a cache.

"Found it" rather should be something like "signed the logbook". I have found many caches where I could sign the log book and it sounds somehow strange to write in a note or dnf log that one found the cache, like it happened to me e.g.

here

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=bf2cc78c-4273-4007-a577-bc40e24b3392

(and at several other locations).

 

The reason why the signature in the log book is so important is that geocaching for many is more about proving to have done something

than about doing it, and without log book entries anyone could claim anything and without log book entries there would be of course no way to come up with any FTF race along the lines of existing ones.

 

So somehow the circle closes: In geocaching a lot of terminology is used in an odd manner.

 

Cezanne

This might be true if the online long were indicative of doing something "provable". But then we'd be debating just what markings in the physical log are proof of anything and whether this includes signing a name in the book before it is hidden.

 

I'd prefer the online logs to be "Had a good time" and "Didn't have a good time". But since the object is to "find" the cache, I can understand why it it what it is.

 

The problem with FTF is that people sign the log who didn't find the cache. They were there with the cache owner when it was hidden. Then because there are many who think the online "Found" log really means "signed the log" they log a find online. If there were one definition of find and everyone agreed to stick to it when they posted online, perhaps there would be one definition of First to Find. But I don't see this happening.

[+cache_test_dummies]

Can you all just let this matter drop? Its gotten beyond ridiculous! Fine, you don't do FTF portion of the game. We do... let's just leave it at that and LET IT GO!

If you really don't want the discussion to continue you can click the Report button and ask for the topic to be closed.

[+baloo&bd]

To answer the original question, it is both fair and ethical.

 

There is no difference between first to find and one hundred and thirty third. Geocaching.com is simply a listing service that gives us a place to also record our experiences. First to find is a linear state, you either are or your not, regardless of the listing.

Edited August 3, 2012 by baloo&bd

[AZcachemeister]

if he was there WHEN i installed the cache i showed him fairplay and he cannot log it in his account un til 3-4 logs have been logged.

 

 

If it were my son, he could not log it at all. Ever. (Well, except for a Note.)

 

How can you 'find' something which you already know where it is?

 

But at least this is a step in the right direction.

[+baloo&bd]

They actually posted some nasty remarks, though my posting simply stated: "We were technically FTF, at 147 pm, as it was just published, though someone else signed the log 2 days before publishing" I was not rude about it, I just posted FTF and the time, after published and did acknowledge someone else's find two days before publishing. Both children posted rudely "NA NA NA BOO BOO I WAS FTF HAHAHAHA ON YOU" both of which have since been edited, but still in my book, are not internet etiquette appropriate (yes, I actually do know what that is, as I DO teach internet etiquette to children as well as adults!)

 

Actually, you both posted "NA NA NA BOO BOO", theirs was just less subtle.

[knowschad]

To paraphrase Jeremy

Bickering over the rules of a "first-to-find" was never the intent of Geocaching.com. There's no prize, no leaderboard, and no trophy, so there's no reason to get your knickers in a twist about anyone else's definition of a FTF.

There seem to be a few puritans who can't abide any definition other that the first person to find the cache and signed the log. It makes more sense to me, that if you want to play an FTF side game, and don't want to be disappointed because a cache had beta finders who may or may not have been there when the cache owner hid it, then you might as well adopt a definition of first to find the cache after it is published. While it's sometimes hard to determine if existing signature were per-publication, this in no always the case, as with the OP where the signatures were dated two days before the publication.

 

Minor aside, if I may: Jeremy owns this website. He does not own the game. His opinions are strictly his opinions. Isn't it rather "puritan" ("purist" to non-forumites) to post his opinions as statements of the way that things are or should be?

[Mr.Yuck]

To paraphrase Jeremy

Bickering over the rules of a "first-to-find" was never the intent of Geocaching.com. There's no prize, no leaderboard, and no trophy, so there's no reason to get your knickers in a twist about anyone else's definition of a FTF.

There seem to be a few puritans who can't abide any definition other that the first person to find the cache and signed the log. It makes more sense to me, that if you want to play an FTF side game, and don't want to be disappointed because a cache had beta finders who may or may not have been there when the cache owner hid it, then you might as well adopt a definition of first to find the cache after it is published. While it's sometimes hard to determine if existing signature were per-publication, this in no always the case, as with the OP where the signatures were dated two days before the publication.

 

Minor aside, if I may: Jeremy owns this website. He does not own the game. His opinions are strictly his opinions. Isn't it rather "puritan" ("purist" to non-forumites) to post his opinions as statements of the way that things are or should be?

 

True. I wish I could be the King of Geocaching for life, because I bought a domain name in 2000 before anyone else thought of it. Whoa. Did I really just say that? How about the perceived King by some, does that make it any better?

 

Seriously though KC, I never looked at it that way when people quote JI. What is he, supreme ruler for life, like the Emperor in Star Wars? Don't take it so hard, Mr. T., I remember when I used to hang out at the TB forum a little, I pulled out his forum quote about TB prisons being "stupid" a few times.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Mr.Yuck

[+WarNinjas]

and remember to put a FTF-certificate in all your new caches,

for you it might just be a piece of paper, but to the one finder who gets it with him, it mean a whole day of joy,

So funny! Just a few weeks ago I FTF a cache with a certificate in it. I had never heard of this before. I was not sure what to do with it and i did want to take it but just signed it and put it back. Other cachers finding it now probibly think I am a jerk for leaving it in there. It is not far from home so maybe I will go pick it up. I think it is a cool idea.

-WarNinjas

[4wheelin_fool]

and remember to put a FTF-certificate in all your new caches,

for you it might just be a piece of paper, but to the one finder who gets it with him, it mean a whole day of joy,

So funny! Just a few weeks ago I FTF a cache with a certificate in it. I had never heard of this before. I was not sure what to do with it and i did want to take it but just signed it and put it back. Other cachers finding it now probibly think I am a jerk for leaving it in there. It is not far from home so maybe I will go pick it up. I think it is a cool idea.

-WarNinjas

 

You are supposed to laminate it and place it in a new cache of yours to get rid of it. Or better yet, attach a TB tag and make it a FTF bug.

[+popokiiti]

Every cache I find is a first for me. The one thing I liked about the FTF thing was the mini-event that you can find at GZ. Otherwise.......meh. Different strokes for different folks.

What the CO does with their cache is up to them. What the OP could do is change their online log to read "First to find after publication."

[+OZ2CPU]

>FTF Certificate? We've never heard of this.

 

what ??

please google a bit, about FTF certificate how to make them, or even nice templates exist

to safe your time, it is just a piece of paper the first finder takes home with him for his wall of fame,

some make them big or small, some even take the time to handcraft nice stuff, and some laminate them,

I also write in the logboog FTF : and leave a clear line so the first finder sign here,

this way all later finders will know who to respect :-) if it maters to them.

if another finder dont care at all about any of this,

he can just sign the log and move on and be happy.

 

 

Yesterday my latest traditional K2 was released

after 14 min found by the first one, 15 min the next and so on !!

after 50 min the 5th FTF hound show up, just to see how late he was,

great fun for all of them,

and it only costed me a halve piece of paper and 1 minute to make.

 

FTF hounds also note the time they find it, both in the paper and online

this way we all can se how fast they can get to a specific location.

[+fizzymagic]

is is perfectly ok you dont like or play the FTF part of it, do what you like, do what makes you happy,

but why do you always spend so much time making alot of comments on it ?

let those who like it, play and have fun.

 

Because those who play the FTF game have a significant negative impact on the rest of us. I'm not going to go over all the reasons yet again, as I presume you can do a forum search.

 

If those who played the FTF game kept it just to themselves and didn't screw it up for the rest of us, I would have no problem with it.

[+Roman!]

is is perfectly ok you dont like or play the FTF part of it, do what you like, do what makes you happy,

but why do you always spend so much time making alot of comments on it ?

let those who like it, play and have fun.

 

Because those who play the FTF game have a significant negative impact on the rest of us. I'm not going to go over all the reasons yet again, as I presume you can do a forum search.

 

If those who played the FTF game kept it just to themselves and didn't screw it up for the rest of us, I would have no problem with it.

 

Want to expand on that generalization? Here's another one: Geocachers cause unnecessary damage to the environment, let's ban it.

[+OZ2CPU]

>Because those who play the FTF game have a significant negative impact on the rest of us

 

really ??

I say ANY geocacher, who is not nice to nature or caches or cache sites have a bad impact,

and ANY CO should select his cache hide site with caution, so it can handle a few careless visitiors

during cache life, and still not create problems to locals or site.

 

any person who walk in a park with his dog, leave potential problems to others..

Edited August 3, 2012 by OZ2CPU

[cezanne]

This might be true if the online long were indicative of doing something "provable". But then we'd be debating just what markings in the physical log are proof of anything and whether this includes signing a name in the book before it is hidden.

 

I'd prefer the online logs to be "Had a good time" and "Didn't have a good time". But since the object is to "find" the cache, I can understand why it it what it is.

 

I agree that "had a good time" and "did not have a good time" will not work. But still I think that "signed the log" would be more "accurate" than "found it".

Of course when caching not alone, one typically signs the log also when it was someone else who finally found the container (if all took part in the hunt).

My focus in the posting to which you replied was rather the converse situation where one found the container and could not sign the logbook. I feel that "did not find" is a bizarre log option in that case, but a note also does not really reflect the failure situation when e.g. a container cannot be opened by say 20% of the visitors.

 

The problem with FTF is that people sign the log who didn't find the cache. They were there with the cache owner when it was hidden. Then because there are many who think the online "Found" log really means "signed the log" they log a find online.

 

Typically, many do not log a find online due to that belief (at least not in my area), but because they want to have this cache displayed with a smilie on maps and not showing up as unfound.

 

If there were one definition of find and everyone agreed to stick to it when they posted online, perhaps there would be one definition of First to Find. But I don't see this happening.

 

I agree with you.

 

Cezanne

Edited August 3, 2012 by cezanne

[cezanne]

 

I also write in the logboog FTF : and leave a clear line so the first finder sign here,

this way all later finders will know who to respect :-) if it maters to them.

if another finder dont care at all about any of this,

he can just sign the log and move on and be happy.

 

 

Since I do not feel that being first at a cache is automatically an accomplishment,

I never ever would hand out or would like to receive a FTF certificate of the type above.

I would feel quite ashamed when encountering sentences like "You are the coolest and fastest" and

of course I would not provide others with such statements either.

 

I do find occasionally caches as first one, but never because I'm the coolest and fastest.

I appreciate all honest and respectful visitors of my cachers in the same manner, regardless of whether they come as first or 109-th.

 

Cezanne

Edited August 3, 2012 by cezanne

[Chino1130]

I know I'm chiming in a little late... but I refused to tell any of my friends or family where I hid the four caches I hid two weeks ago. I think it's funny watching my friends get irritated that I wouldn't give them a leg up

[+NYPaddleCacher]

is is perfectly ok you dont like or play the FTF part of it, do what you like, do what makes you happy,

but why do you always spend so much time making alot of comments on it ?

let those who like it, play and have fun.

 

Because those who play the FTF game have a significant negative impact on the rest of us. I'm not going to go over all the reasons yet again, as I presume you can do a forum search.

 

If those who played the FTF game kept it just to themselves and didn't screw it up for the rest of us, I would have no problem with it.

 

Want to expand on that generalization? Here's another one: Geocachers cause unnecessary damage to the environment, let's ban it.

 

It seems to me that there is quite a difference between expressing an opinion (one that can be supported by searching the forums) that the FTF game can have a significant impact on the rest of us and calling for a ban on some aspect of the game.

 

In any case, I agree 100% with what Fizzymagic wrote. I totally support the notion the geocaching is a game that one can choose to play how they want, up to the point that how someone plays the game negatively impacts how others play the game. What I've seen from some that support the FTF game (and another controversial aspect of the game) is that those that play that game don't seem to particularly care that it might negatively impact the game for others. The best word that I can think of that describes people like that is "selfish" and I have a hard time wrapping my head around the notion that selfishness is an acceptable attribute in a game that would not exist if not for the fact that there a lots of others in the geocaching community that unselfishly volunteer their time, money, and creativity to place geocaches for all of us to find.

[+Z3ROIN]

Dear holy crap....

 

[+Z3ROIN]

I think its time for several of you to LET IT GO!

 

Etc. Etc.

 

Can you all just let this matter drop? Its gotten beyond ridiculous! Fine, you don't do FTF portion of the game. We do... let's just leave it at that and LET IT GO!

 

MrsHofy

 

Oh my! Just because you started this thread doesn't mean it's yours, it's in the global arena now, much like geocaches are when they're new and up for a FTF.

[Mr.Yuck]

I think its time for several of you to LET IT GO!

 

Etc. Etc.

 

Can you all just let this matter drop? Its gotten beyond ridiculous! Fine, you don't do FTF portion of the game. We do... let's just leave it at that and LET IT GO!

 

MrsHofy

 

Oh my! Just because you started this thread doesn't mean it's yours, it's in the global arena now, much like geocaches are when they're new and up for a FTF.

 

The global arena, yep! I've said before, I don't think too many people in the FTF crowd realize what a small minority of the overall Geocaching populace they are. First of all, they're all premium members. How could you even "compete" without getting cache notifications? Most accounts are not premium. That rules out well over half the community right there. Then they're much more high profile than their numbers indicate, with all the chatter on the cache pages the first couple of finds, and people "congratulating them for all eternity on the cache page, including with highly annoying scrolling banners. That's not a jab at FTF'ers, any scrolling banner is annoying.

 

At the end of the day, it's a handful of people out of thousands of registered Geocachers in any given area. Who get scrolling banners on cache pages.

[+Roman!]

I think its time for several of you to LET IT GO!

 

Etc. Etc.

 

Can you all just let this matter drop? Its gotten beyond ridiculous! Fine, you don't do FTF portion of the game. We do... let's just leave it at that and LET IT GO!

 

MrsHofy

 

Oh my! Just because you started this thread doesn't mean it's yours, it's in the global arena now, much like geocaches are when they're new and up for a FTF.

 

The global arena, yep! I've said before, I don't think too many people in the FTF crowd realize what a small minority of the overall Geocaching populace they are. First of all, they're all premium members. How could you even "compete" without getting cache notifications? Most accounts are not premium. That rules out well over half the community right there. Then they're much more high profile than their numbers indicate, with all the chatter on the cache pages the first couple of finds, and people "congratulating them for all eternity on the cache page, including with highly annoying scrolling banners. That's not a jab at FTF'ers, any scrolling banner is annoying.

 

At the end of the day, it's a handful of people out of thousands of registered Geocachers in any given area. Who get scrolling banners on cache pages.

 

You know what's more annoying than scrolling banners? People who think the deserve the right to judge other people because they do things different. The op asked a question and it's turned into an all out insult assault on those that enjoy the FTF game. You have no clue what motivates people to go after FTFs, every one is different and I'm sure for most it's not a scrolling banner so quit making s*** up.

 

I'm competitive, it's got me far in life and I'd never give it up. I enjoy the FTF race but win or lose I enjoy meeting other people at the cache. The only negative are those people that can't take losing but they are far and few between but I'd still prefer meeting them than some of the people on this forum.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Roman!

[Mr.Yuck]

I think its time for several of you to LET IT GO!

 

Etc. Etc.

 

Can you all just let this matter drop? Its gotten beyond ridiculous! Fine, you don't do FTF portion of the game. We do... let's just leave it at that and LET IT GO!

 

MrsHofy

 

Oh my! Just because you started this thread doesn't mean it's yours, it's in the global arena now, much like geocaches are when they're new and up for a FTF.

 

The global arena, yep! I've said before, I don't think too many people in the FTF crowd realize what a small minority of the overall Geocaching populace they are. First of all, they're all premium members. How could you even "compete" without getting cache notifications? Most accounts are not premium. That rules out well over half the community right there. Then they're much more high profile than their numbers indicate, with all the chatter on the cache pages the first couple of finds, and people "congratulating them for all eternity on the cache page, including with highly annoying scrolling banners. That's not a jab at FTF'ers, any scrolling banner is annoying.

 

At the end of the day, it's a handful of people out of thousands of registered Geocachers in any given area. Who get scrolling banners on cache pages.

 

You know what's more annoying than scrolling banners? People who think the deserve the right to judge other people because they do things different. The op asked a question and it's turned into an all out insult assault on those that enjoy the FTF game. You have no clue what motivates people to go after FTFs, every one is different and I'm sure for most it's not a scrolling banner so quit making s*** up.

 

I'm competitive, it's got me far in life and I'd never give it up. I enjoy the FTF race but win or lose I enjoy meeting other people at the cache. The only negative are those people that can't take losing but they are far and few between but I'd still prefer meeting them than some of the people on this forum.

 

Whoa. There's a blast. But I can take it. C'mon, you'd love to meet me. I like Geobeer too.

 

P.S. Early in the thread, I stated these family members doing this on the caches was "lame and cheesy".

Edited August 3, 2012 by Mr.Yuck

[cezanne]

>Because those who play the FTF game have a significant negative impact on the rest of us

 

really ??

I say ANY geocacher, who is not nice to nature or caches or cache sites have a bad impact,

and ANY CO should select his cache hide site with caution, so it can handle a few careless visitiors

during cache life, and still not create problems to locals or site.

 

any person who walk in a park with his dog, leave potential problems to others..

 

Yes, of course also non-cachers can cause a problem, but typically they do not log their activities online and

are even proud of them. I cannot count how often I read FTF logs where someone visited a cache where

the cache owner asked for visits during daylight only at night (many caches are published in the evening) or where

cachers ignored that driving was prohibited for non residents or everone and drove by car as close to the cache to win.

 

Cezanne

[+The_Incredibles_]

Both children posted rudely "NA NA NA BOO BOO I WAS FTF HAHAHAHA ON YOU" both of which have since been edited, but still in my book, are not internet etiquette appropriate (yes, I actually do know what that is, as I DO teach internet etiquette to children as well as adults!)

 

I actually find this kind of humourous. They're kids having fun, right? We're adults; we're not supposed to let silly stuff like this shorten our life-spans. Presumably their parents saw this and told them off.

[+Allyn56]

I personally like being a FTF on a cache. I also don't mind acknowledging those who find it first on my caches. It's not a race or game for me, just like being the first to find sometimes. To add to the original question, I don't think giving people a heads up on the cache location so they can claim a FTF is appropriate. I also think the year and half delayed log that Fizzymagic posted about is not appropriate as well.

[+zack_black]

Dear holy crap. It's threads like these that make me glad I quit not only chasing FTFs myself, but also recognizing the first finders on our caches.

 

this

[kanchan]

Very interesting... I have never personally been bothered by FTF players before, and I sometimes enjoy signing empty logs myself, but still... after reading all of the discussion here (mostly the postings by the OP), I probably want to stop recognizing FTFers/FTSers on my caches.

Edited August 5, 2012 by kanchan

[+baloo&bd]

I also think the year and half delayed log that Fizzymagic posted about is not appropriate as well.

 

Why? There are many of us who don't get around to logging finds for weeks, months or even years. I personally fall into the weeks and sometimes months category. If there is one in there that I happened upon a blank log, this means it will most likely be a couple weeks before I get around to logging it. This is somehow wrong? On occasion, I find/realize I forgot to log a find from a year or two ago and log it. Did I miss something somewhere that said you had to log your finds within X time-frame?

[+Allyn56]

I also think the year and half delayed log that Fizzymagic posted about is not appropriate as well.

 

Why? There are many of us who don't get around to logging finds for weeks, months or even years. I personally fall into the weeks and sometimes months category. If there is one in there that I happened upon a blank log, this means it will most likely be a couple weeks before I get around to logging it. This is somehow wrong? On occasion, I find/realize I forgot to log a find from a year or two ago and log it. Did I miss something somewhere that said you had to log your finds within X time-frame?

 

Recognizing that there are geocachers who seek FTF's and that a cache has no logs would imply that the cache is eligible for a FTF. Failure to post your log for a year and and half and then posting 10 minutes after the next find seems inappropriate to me. It is not inappropriate to post delayed logs, but on ones that have no logs, failure to post timely gives a false impression to those who like the FTF hunt.

[+baloo&bd]

I also think the year and half delayed log that Fizzymagic posted about is not appropriate as well.

 

Why? There are many of us who don't get around to logging finds for weeks, months or even years. I personally fall into the weeks and sometimes months category. If there is one in there that I happened upon a blank log, this means it will most likely be a couple weeks before I get around to logging it. This is somehow wrong? On occasion, I find/realize I forgot to log a find from a year or two ago and log it. Did I miss something somewhere that said you had to log your finds within X time-frame?

 

Recognizing that there are geocachers who seek FTF's and that a cache has no logs would imply that the cache is eligible for a FTF. Failure to post your log for a year and and half and then posting 10 minutes after the next find seems inappropriate to me. It is not inappropriate to post delayed logs, but on ones that have no logs, failure to post timely gives a false impression to those who like the FTF hunt.

 

Since there is really no difference between first and forty second to find, seems like a non-issue.

[cezanne]

I also think the year and half delayed log that Fizzymagic posted about is not appropriate as well.

 

Why? There are many of us who don't get around to logging finds for weeks, months or even years. I personally fall into the weeks and sometimes months category. If there is one in there that I happened upon a blank log, this means it will most likely be a couple weeks before I get around to logging it. This is somehow wrong? On occasion, I find/realize I forgot to log a find from a year or two ago and log it. Did I miss something somewhere that said you had to log your finds within X time-frame?

 

Recognizing that there are geocachers who seek FTF's and that a cache has no logs would imply that the cache is eligible for a FTF. Failure to post your log for a year and and half and then posting 10 minutes after the next find seems inappropriate to me. It is not inappropriate to post delayed logs, but on ones that have no logs, failure to post timely gives a false impression to those who like the FTF hunt.

 

Well, 1.5 years is certainly extreme, but their persistence that someone who finds a cache as first one needs to log his find immediately is one of the aspects that I really find annoying. I typically log my finds on the same day, except when I'm travelling, but I certainly are not willing to hurry up with logging or even going home inbetween in order to log my find.

 

Cezanne

[kanchan]

I also think the year and half delayed log that Fizzymagic posted about is not appropriate as well.

 

Why? There are many of us who don't get around to logging finds for weeks, months or even years. I personally fall into the weeks and sometimes months category. If there is one in there that I happened upon a blank log, this means it will most likely be a couple weeks before I get around to logging it. This is somehow wrong? On occasion, I find/realize I forgot to log a find from a year or two ago and log it. Did I miss something somewhere that said you had to log your finds within X time-frame?

 

Recognizing that there are geocachers who seek FTF's and that a cache has no logs would imply that the cache is eligible for a FTF. Failure to post your log for a year and and half and then posting 10 minutes after the next find seems inappropriate to me. It is not inappropriate to post delayed logs, but on ones that have no logs, failure to post timely gives a false impression to those who like the FTF hunt.

It's not inappropriate. They don't even have to post online logs at all if they don't want to.

[+Allyn56]

It's not inappropriate. They don't even have to post online logs at all if they don't want to.

 

True and point well taken. I agree there are no rules on when or if you post your log. I was just trying to say that if someone wanted to be considerate of those who enjoy that aspect of the game, it would be appropriate to post your find in a timely manner. Doesnt have to be right away or in between caches just a year and a half seemed longer than expected. I will continue to do it to be courteous to the next person. You can do what seems right to you.

[Mr.Yuck]

I also think the year and half delayed log that Fizzymagic posted about is not appropriate as well.

 

Why? There are many of us who don't get around to logging finds for weeks, months or even years. I personally fall into the weeks and sometimes months category. If there is one in there that I happened upon a blank log, this means it will most likely be a couple weeks before I get around to logging it. This is somehow wrong? On occasion, I find/realize I forgot to log a find from a year or two ago and log it. Did I miss something somewhere that said you had to log your finds within X time-frame?

 

C'mon. This guy purposely waited for the 2TF to log, just to make it look like the cache had not been found. I believe this happens a lot, but this is a rather extreme case. As a matter of fact, that happened to me both times I was the real FTF on caches where "give the coordinates to you homeboy before publishing" shenanigans were in play. Both were in like 2003 and 2004, when I actually went after FTF's.

[+Roman!]

I also think the year and half delayed log that Fizzymagic posted about is not appropriate as well.

 

Why? There are many of us who don't get around to logging finds for weeks, months or even years. I personally fall into the weeks and sometimes months category. If there is one in there that I happened upon a blank log, this means it will most likely be a couple weeks before I get around to logging it. This is somehow wrong? On occasion, I find/realize I forgot to log a find from a year or two ago and log it. Did I miss something somewhere that said you had to log your finds within X time-frame?

 

Recognizing that there are geocachers who seek FTF's and that a cache has no logs would imply that the cache is eligible for a FTF. Failure to post your log for a year and and half and then posting 10 minutes after the next find seems inappropriate to me. It is not inappropriate to post delayed logs, but on ones that have no logs, failure to post timely gives a false impression to those who like the FTF hunt.

 

Since there is really no difference between first and forty second to find, seems like a non-issue.

 

The guy waited a year and a half to make fun of the 2TF, that is a jackass move in my books.

 

As for the difference between 1st and forty second, maybe not to you but to some there is a difference so quit trying to impose your beliefs on others.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Roman!

[+briansnat]

I also think the year and half delayed log that Fizzymagic posted about is not appropriate as well.

 

Why? There are many of us who don't get around to logging finds for weeks, months or even years. I personally fall into the weeks and sometimes months category. If there is one in there that I happened upon a blank log, this means it will most likely be a couple weeks before I get around to logging it. This is somehow wrong? On occasion, I find/realize I forgot to log a find from a year or two ago and log it. Did I miss something somewhere that said you had to log your finds within X time-frame?

 

Recognizing that there are geocachers who seek FTF's and that a cache has no logs would imply that the cache is eligible for a FTF. Failure to post your log for a year and and half and then posting 10 minutes after the next find seems inappropriate to me. It is not inappropriate to post delayed logs, but on ones that have no logs, failure to post timely gives a false impression to those who like the FTF hunt.

 

Since there is really no difference between first and forty second to find, seems like a non-issue.

 

The guy waited a year and a half to make fun of the 2TF, that is a jackass move in my books.

 

As for the difference between 1st and forty second, maybe not to you but to some there is a difference so quit trying to impose your beliefs on others.

 

I'm not into the FTF game so I'm not going to go out of my way to log a FTF online. I'll log it in the same due time I log any other cache. I see no problem with people who do that. If someone is behind with logging their finds and is not into the FTF scene I really don't think they need to cater to the relatively small group of FTF hounds.

 

But deliberately delaying a log specifically to toy with the FTF segment is pretty low.

[+fizzymagic]

But deliberately delaying a log specifically to toy with the FTF segment is pretty low.

 

Thanks to all who commented on this. I am by no means an FTF hound, but the idea of a cache that hadn't been found in 2.5 years appealed to me, and that's why I went for it. I was only mildly disappointed to find it had already been logged, as the puzzle and the adventure were plenty of fun in themselves, but it seems pretty likely that the first finder purposely did not log his find in order to mess with future FTF seekers. That bothers me because it means that the FTF game induced him to NOT log his find, which means this is a way that the FTF game affected things for the rest of us.

 

Was it a very big deal? Nope. Turns out that there was a nearby cache that we did in an old abandoned mining tunnel; we were the first finders but didn't even realize it until we opened the logbook! That was a very fun cache as well, and I might not have been induced to go for it had I not seen the original. So everything worked out for the best, as these things do.

 

Back to the theme of this thread: I see nothing wrong with the FTF game as long as it doesn't negatively affect anyone else.

 

- Keeping track of your FTFs? Fine.

- Posting them on your profile? Tacky, but fine.

- Excessive celebration on FTF logs? Obnoxious, but forgivable.

- Delaying logs to trick others into thinking they are FTF? Not cool.

- Leaving taunting, disrespectful logs, like those left for this thread's originator? Rude and antisocial.

- Breaking the law or park regulations to be first? Bad bad bad.