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Cache Owner Won't Post Accurate Order of Found!


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...and the order matters -- why??

Are you one of those kids that has a whole bunch of trophies for just showing up?

 

You believe that the kid who got last place should get the same size trophy as the kid who got first place?

 

You think competition is bad for your self esteem?

 

You don't think first place should be recognized because it makes the last place person feel bad?

 

THATS WHY!

 

If you still don't get it, maybe we should call off the Olympics and just send all of them home with gold medals.

 

For the vast majority this hobby is not a competition. You should follow the procedures outlined in my signature.

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Although I agree with you on most of that, I also believe that nothing changes if people don't stand up for what's right.

 

This CO is the very same person that kept contacting me a few years ago when a local cacher logged a bunch of caches that he didn't do (200+). He thought it was my job to play cache police, telling this guy to delete his logs! I told him that it didn't matter to me, that if he wanted to tell him, he could do so. But, as far as I was concerned, all his logging those caches meant was that his score didn't mean anything at all. So, wanting caching to be on the up-and-up, isn't it right that his very own cache page reflect what really happened? (BTW, my two kids are over visiting their father during all of this. It's me, fighting for them and what's right.)

 

Oh, they know, and we celebrated!! But, like I said on the other reply, they deserve the online recognition if it is given to others. What does THAT teach them, that other people should get credited with 3rd and 4th when they actually placed in that order? In a school, if there is a Spelling Bee, should 3rd place be given to #7?

 

Perhaps this is a good time for the lesson on them not counting on external validation.

 

THEY KNOW they completed the challenge. They should feel good about that and not need a cache owner to validate whether they should feel good about the challenge or not.

 

Then perhaps the lesson is that the world is a very unfair place and that needs to not take away from their own joy and sense of accomplishment.

There are a lot of unfair people in the world and we can't change them.

 

Personally, I think this is an incredibly important lesson. Show them how to deal with unfair people with your head up and being unconcerned with what others do.

Bolding is my add...but I think that is the part keeping you from moving on...equating Find Count with some sort of score...

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so what did yo learn ?

if log date or log order is important to you.. then log it faster :-)

As I understand it, the issue is not with the order of the logs. The issue is with a spreadsheet that the cache owner posted to the cache page that lists the order of the finds. This 'official' list is incorrect, so the finder requyested that it be corrected.

 

Herein lies the real problem. Caching is not a competition. If you choose to make it one, fine, however you can't impose it on others.
The problem with your logic is that it wasn't Dragon that made that specific cache a competition. It was the cache owner.
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...and the order matters -- why??

Are you one of those kids that has a whole bunch of trophies for just showing up?

 

You believe that the kid who got last place should get the same size trophy as the kid who got first place?

 

You think competition is bad for your self esteem?

 

You don't think first place should be recognized because it makes the last place person feel bad?

 

THATS WHY!

 

If you still don't get it, maybe we should call off the Olympics and just send all of them home with gold medals.

I never knew I was in a professional sport...thanks for showing me the light!!! Now...time to get serious and go for the number one spot in the world!!!

<_<:rolleyes:<_<

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Two lessons learned from all this. 1. Always remember that karma will get you in the end. 2. Never do anything that may light a mother's kids, lol!

 

What karma? She did nothing to this CO. She has no control over other people's caches.

 

If I were this lady I would just move on.

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The Olympics are on right now. Does it matter what order someone finishes the race? They don't really DO anything any different. They ran the same race, just a bit faster than the next guy! So, does it "matter" who came in first, second, third... Competition is competition for a reason. It's part of our way of life. Sure, there are higher stakes for the Olympics ($, fame, etc.), but the basic concept is the same.

The concepts aren't at all the same. Never confuse geocaching with a competition. Athletes go to the Olympics with the intent to compete for awards. Geocachers go find caches with the intent to find caches. Any additional competitive elements added to geocaching are not the primary intent and are completely unofficial.

 

Anyway, there's nothing any of us can do to change what has happened with that cache. The only person that can do that is the owner. If they won't, then it's case closed. Time to move on and find some more caches.

 

We'll, they could create a bookmark list named, "I finished Third", share it and put the cache on the list.

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Well, I think those that don't care about the order should cache that way. But, there are many of us who do. And, if the CO is going to post an order, they should post an accurate list. I think those that don't care about injustice for great kids, who worked their buns of to finish something are the ones that "look bad." I'm not much of a drinker, maybe that's why having things done right and fair are more important to me. Maybe you should have the "stuff drink" and not worry about anything that doesn't matter to you.

 

DP4C, you're just making yourself look bad here.

 

My suggestion.

 

1. Pour yourself a stuff drink.

 

2. Drink it.

 

3. Forget about this nonsense. It doesn't matter.

 

There is only one certain thing here. You can not control what the other cacher does on his cache page. All you can do is respond/react to it. You seem to feel that you and your child were served a great injustice. Instead of responding by accepting it as a lesson in life, you choose to react in anger and resentment. Is this battle that important? Sometimes, just knowing that you are right is all you get. By harboring this resentment, you are giving this person power over you that he has no right to have. Take control of what you can, which is the lesson you can teach your child.

 

That's a non-drinker's perspective.

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The concepts aren't at all the same. Never confuse geocaching with a competition. Athletes go to the Olympics with the intent to compete for awards.

The concept is exactly the same.

 

If a CO is publishing a list of the order of completion, then by those very actions completing the tasks in a timely manor IS a competition, and getting your name on the list is a reward.

 

No, it is not necessarily a reward and it is not necessarily a competition from the point of view of someone who visits such a cache.

I visit a cache whenever I wish to do so and I do not care at all whether I'm first, 5-th, 103-th etc. If something is left in the cache e.g. for the first finder or the first x finders and I belong to that group, I leave whatever it is in the cache. I also cannot understand congratulations offered for being the first finder of a cache. For me it's pretty much ridiculous and even more ridiculous that many cachers even use the language of championships for being 2-nd (silver), 3-rd (bronze).

 

The OP has some point insofar that the information offered on the cache page is wrong in some aspect, but that is the case numerous times and I see no reason why it is more important that some rank list is correct than e.g. the building year of some object that plays a role in the cache, or other mistakes that the owner does not want to correct.

Many cache pages contain mistakes. So what?

 

 

Cezanne

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...and the order matters -- why??

Are you one of those kids that has a whole bunch of trophies for just showing up?

 

You believe that the kid who got last place should get the same size trophy as the kid who got first place?

 

You think competition is bad for your self esteem?

 

You don't think first place should be recognized because it makes the last place person feel bad?

 

THATS WHY!

 

If you still don't get it, maybe we should call off the Olympics and just send all of them home with gold medals.

I never knew I was in a professional sport...thanks for showing me the light!!! Now...time to get serious and go for the number one spot in the world!!!

<_<:rolleyes:<_<

 

Not all sports are professional and it doesn't matter if you call Geocaching a sport or a hobby as long as there are ways to keep score the there will be competition. Whether you choose to take part in this competition or not is up to you but regardless, there will be those that choose to compete.

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BTW, she REALLY kicked butt on that challenge, too! It included a 13 mile hike, as well as a number of other challenging caches - PRETTY DARN AWESOME for a 10-year old! She deserves the credit she EARNED! Her brother did extremely well, too, not taking anything away from him. He's ony 14.

 

Credit granted. Congratulations to her and her brother. Much applause and high-fives all around. Kudos. Well done and nice going!

 

Is everybody happy now?

 

Edited to add: I understand that you are proud of your children and are simply trying to defend their accomplishments.

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BTW, she REALLY kicked butt on that challenge, too! It included a 13 mile hike, as well as a number of other challenging caches - PRETTY DARN AWESOME for a 10-year old! She deserves the credit she EARNED! Her brother did extremely well, too, not taking anything away from him. He's ony 14.

 

Credit granted. Congratulations to her and her brother. Much applause and high-fives all around. Kudos. Well done and nice going!

 

Is everybody happy now?

 

Edited to add: I understand that you are proud of your children and are simply trying to defend their accomplishments.

 

Where's the pizza?

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I have a very different question about the cache. How did it get approved? I can't see how it is a mystery cache, rather it is a traditional cache with an ALR. It is my understanding that requiring an ALR to log a find was eliminated long before the cache was published in Sept 2011. What am I missing?

3.1. Logging of All Physical Geocaches

Physical caches can be logged online as "Found" once the physical log has been signed.

 

An exception is Challenge Caches, which may only be logged online after the log is signed and the challenge tasks have been met and documented to the cache owner as per instructions on the published listing. Other than documenting a Challenge Cache, physical caches cannot require geocachers to contact anyone.

 

I'm aware of that part but thought the next paragraph set a date beyond which such new caches would not be approved. To me, the relationship of the two paragraphs isn't clear, but I accept your understanding of it. Thanks.

 

I didn't realize it, but reading that without prior knowledge of what occurred, is confusing. The date has nothing to do with Challenge caches. It was the date that a CO could no longer require that we perform additional tasks in order to log a plain old traditional cache. If they changed the word "Physical" to "Traditional" it would be much clearer.

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3.1. Logging of All Physical Geocaches

Physical caches can be logged online as "Found" once the physical log has been signed.

 

An exception is Challenge Caches, which may only be logged online after the log is signed and the challenge tasks have been met and documented to the cache owner as per instructions on the published listing. Other than documenting a Challenge Cache, physical caches cannot require geocachers to contact anyone.

 

I'm aware of that part but thought the next paragraph set a date beyond which such new caches would not be approved. To me, the relationship of the two paragraphs isn't clear, but I accept your understanding of it. Thanks.

I didn't realize it, but reading that without prior knowledge of what occurred, is confusing. The date has nothing to do with Challenge caches. It was the date that a CO could no longer require that we perform additional tasks in order to log a plain old traditional cache. If they changed the word "Physical" to "Traditional" it would be much clearer.

It doesn't just apply to traditionals, though. It also applies to multis, puzzles, letterbox-hybrids, and Wherigos. Using the word "physical" makes for a much shorter article title.

 

It looks like the cache owner removed the ordered list from the cache page. Can we all go home now?

I'm a bit saddened that the CO gave in. It's unfortunately true in so many cases that those who whine the loudest invariably get their way.

 

Okay folks, show's over, nothing to see here...

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3.1. Logging of All Physical Geocaches

Physical caches can be logged online as "Found" once the physical log has been signed.

 

An exception is Challenge Caches, which may only be logged online after the log is signed and the challenge tasks have been met and documented to the cache owner as per instructions on the published listing. Other than documenting a Challenge Cache, physical caches cannot require geocachers to contact anyone.

 

I'm aware of that part but thought the next paragraph set a date beyond which such new caches would not be approved. To me, the relationship of the two paragraphs isn't clear, but I accept your understanding of it. Thanks.

I didn't realize it, but reading that without prior knowledge of what occurred, is confusing. The date has nothing to do with Challenge caches. It was the date that a CO could no longer require that we perform additional tasks in order to log a plain old traditional cache. If they changed the word "Physical" to "Traditional" it would be much clearer.

It doesn't just apply to traditionals, though. It also applies to multis, puzzles, letterbox-hybrids, and Wherigos. Using the word "physical" makes for a much shorter article title.

 

It looks like the cache owner removed the ordered list from the cache page. Can we all go home now?

I'm a bit saddened that the CO gave in. It's unfortunately true in so many cases that those who whine the loudest invariably get their way.

 

Okay folks, show's over, nothing to see here...

 

I'm not sure why you would be saddened. If the CO chooses to place an order of completion list on the cache page, then that CO needs to at least try and keep it accurate.

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Can some enterprising website designer-type person come up with an emoticon for GeoProzac? I'm guessing it might become the most widely used icon on this board...

 

And +1 to GrateBear - that's a highly valuable lesson, and one waaaaayyyyyyyy too many folks never learned.

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