Just had an idea

[+waterloo.bob]

I love geocaching. Love finding caches. That said getting the often soggy, sometimes not removable without tweezers, occasionally full etc. logbook out of a cache and then unpacking it from it's torn baggy, getting your pen out, finding out you've lost your pen somewhere after the last cache, signing and dating, repackaging and so on and so on, gets to be a drag. Plus it's a time suck when you are battling mosquitos and could be using that time for doing more caching.

 

So I know there's someone out there that can run with this.

 

What we need is an electronic logbook. Find the cache. Get your GPS REAL close, as in REAL close, an inch (2.54cm) maybe, so you still have to find the cache, and your handle/date gets wirelessly transferred to the logbook. Beep. Wireless transfer successful (also recorded as a Found on your GPS) and bada bing! you're on your way.

 

Likely there are purists out there that will think this is heresy. I always enjoy hearing from them.

 

Anyone out there that can pull this off?

 

Can I copyright this? O<-c (can't find a copyright symbol so that's a little 'c' inside a big circle).

[4wheelin_fool]

That has been suggested more than a few times, but denied. You probably may be allowed to have that as an alternative logging system using a QR code, as long as there was also a physical logbook.

Edited July 29, 2012 by 4wheelin_fool

[+terrkan78]

I don't think it's heresy, and it would be more convenient on micros, but finding an dry ammo can on top of some hill with a big honkin log book in there, with page-long entries dating back years (there's a mountain-top cache around here that has a pre-geocaching log book in there dating clear back to the 60s), people drawing full-page pictures, muggles writing in there saying "why the heck is this box out here?"...all that would be missing from your copyrighted vision.

 

Admittedly, you don't see a big (dry) honkin log book very often, and when I do come across one I have a hard time thinking of what to say, but it's a particularly good aspect of the game.

 

What you're proposing sounds a little like the M game. I was excited about the M game at first, signed up online and then tried downloading the app to my phone - no go, my phone was too old. Couldn't afford a new phone. I'm assuming we'd all have to upgrade our GPS units to play the game as you propose. That's a big drawback.

[+TomToad]

Problem with this is that it limits who can log the cache. For example, someone uses a nuvi to cache with won't be able to log, nor someone who caches with Google maps.

[+J the Goat]

Problem with this is that it limits who can log the cache. For example, someone uses a nuvi to cache with won't be able to log, nor someone who caches with Google maps.

 

This is the biggest problem I see. Are there even GPS units with that capability?

[Mr.Yuck]

I love geocaching. Love finding caches. That said getting the often soggy, sometimes not removable without tweezers, occasionally full etc. logbook out of a cache and then unpacking it from it's torn baggy, getting your pen out, finding out you've lost your pen somewhere after the last cache, signing and dating, repackaging and so on and so on, gets to be a drag. Plus it's a time suck when you are battling mosquitos and could be using that time for doing more caching.

 

So I know there's someone out there that can run with this.

 

What we need is an electronic logbook. Find the cache. Get your GPS REAL close, as in REAL close, an inch (2.54cm) maybe, so you still have to find the cache, and your handle/date gets wirelessly transferred to the logbook. Beep. Wireless transfer successful (also recorded as a Found on your GPS) and bada bing! you're on your way.

 

Likely there are purists out there that will think this is heresy. I always enjoy hearing from them.

 

Anyone out there that can pull this off?

 

Can I copyright this? O<-c (can't find a copyright symbol so that's a little 'c' inside a big circle).

 

You're going to kick yourself. Simply put the C inside parenthesis. That's How I did this: © I should mention works for TM too. Gladware

 

Eh, not heresy, I'd go for it in place of signing the paper log, and for log verification. But if this means default blank logs are uploaded to the website, I'd go bonkers. Can't stand the hoards of smartphone "TFTC" loggers as it is.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Mr.Yuck

[7rxc]

The technology already exists, but right now we see it as 'Chirp'. The company (Garmin owned) makes data recorders for various purposes. Most use that in one direction, but it is a two way deal. They have counters and recorders. Problem is... who wants to buy the stuff. Chirp has the potential, and many Garmins are capable of Chirp. Mine isn't, but some phones can get a plug in unit.

 

RFID tech is there as well, but has to be provided somehow and paid for. QR codes and barcodes exist for readers to scan.

The point is hi tech can be used by SOME people, but a pencil and paper is it for most of us.

And one will always have to have that as primary logging, and the other stuff as optional for those that want to do it that way.

 

I wouldn't do anything for you but the QR/Barcode route since it can be cheap, and YOU pay for the reader.

Not having optional route to electronic would be an ALR and not allowed. So ALR no, electronic logging OK as option.

 

Hope that helps.

Doug 7rxc

[+Vater_Araignee]

My as well just be a Wherigo with extremely precise Lat long and elevation set for the unlock.

[+uxorious]

Problem with this is that it limits who can log the cache. For example, someone uses a nuvi to cache with won't be able to log, nor someone who caches with Google maps.

 

I would think the cache would have to have a log, even if it had this new system. That would seem to be the bigger problem.

 

The idea would be the best for nano's and micro's. However, the smaller the cache the harder it would be to fit the needed electronics into the thing, and still have room for a log.

 

Also, I think it would be better if the electronic timestamp was a separate device from the GPS'r.

 

Please note that I would not use such a system, nor would I set any of my caches to accept it. But the system might have merit for some of those, (both hiders and finders) who play this a little different than I do.

[+kunarion]

I love geocaching. Love finding caches. That said getting the often soggy, sometimes not removable without tweezers, occasionally full etc. logbook out of a cache and then unpacking it from it's torn baggy

Yay, no more full, wet logs and torn baggies. Now we'll have wet, corroded electronic cache logs with dead batteries. Good thing I'll remember to bring my pen and paper.

Edited July 29, 2012 by kunarion

[+kunarion]

But the system might have merit for some of those, (both hiders and finders) who play this a little different than I do.

Maybe it would work if it were something like a Chirp where cachers could send a little log-code-data thing to be stored on it. There are wifi game cameras that allow data movement, the OP's device could be similar. I'm not 110% certain that the Cache Owners who have caches with wet, full log sheets and torn baggies are responsible enough to check the device, change batteries, and keep it functional.

Edited July 29, 2012 by kunarion

[+Vater_Araignee]

But the system might have merit for some of those, (both hiders and finders) who play this a little different than I do.

Maybe it would work if it were something like a Chirp where cachers could send a little log-code-data thing to be stored on it. I'm not 110% certain that the Cache Owners who have caches with wet, full log sheets and torn baggies are responsible enough to check the device, change batteries, and keep it functional.

Too true.

[+The_Incredibles_]

This is a good idea and I definately see this in the future for geocaching. However, right now, I think we're not ready for it. Still alot of people not paperless.

[+tozainamboku]

I love geocaching. Love finding caches. That said getting the often soggy, sometimes not removable without tweezers, occasionally full etc. logbook out of a cache and then unpacking it from it's torn baggy, getting your pen out, finding out you've lost your pen somewhere after the last cache, signing and dating, repackaging and so on and so on, gets to be a drag.

No more of a drag when the a batteries die or some other hardware failure occurs using your log-o-matie electronic logging device.

 

I never confuse "signing the log" with having fun and finding caches. Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't sign the log. When you find the cache you should open it up and sign the log. That gives you a warm-fuzzy that what you found was indeed the cache. But if the log is too soggy, or too difficult to remove, or full, or your pen fails, you can still log a find online. Sure, there there are some cache owners who insist they should delete your log if you didn't sign the log (and the way the guidelines are currently written, they have this right). But the majority of cache owners realize this is just a fun game. There is no need to develop electronic logs, or any other supposedly more accurate scoring device, since there is no score and no trophy is given out for the most finds.

[+Chrysalides]

It's been suggested and kicked around before, and as many of the other posts have indicated :

 

1. If you have a physical logbook to sign as well, it will not be an issue

2. Higher cost and more frequent maintenance is a problem

 

There have also been other alternatives suggested, such as getting a code back from the cache that you use to verify your find online. It can even be designed to be cryptographically secure, as well as not requiring it to be powered. But same argument applies - it needs special equipment for both cache and cacher. If your cache says "you need to enter the code into my website and have it verified before you can log it as found online", it will not be allowed.

 

There's an alternate geolocation game that uses QR code, mentioning the name will get this thread locked in a hurry. There's also talk a few months ago about Groundspeak deploying QR challenges, but there have been no updates since.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Chrysalides

[AZcachemeister]

1. Special equipment required. I'm not going to spend one cent on a new GPS to find your type of cache. Let's look at the CHIRP concept. Only a handful here in AZ, and I'll bet less than 1000 nationwide...now REI is selling them at 50% off!

 

2. Some people like to find caches without using a GPSr at all.

[+Colonial Cats]

I might be old fashion, but I think you should actually sign a paper log with ink to claim a find. You must pick up the container, open it, sign the log (none of this "Oh, I forgot the pen" nonsense), put the log back into the container (even if it takes 5 minutes to roll up the log), and put the container back where it should be.

 

There is too much emphasis on "the numbers". Faster is not always better. I believe that by taking time to log a cache properly makes you appreciate the caching experience more.

[+WarNinjas]

Great Idea but I think it would qualify as a different game. I don't have a problem remembering a pen but sometimes there are muggles around that make it hard to actually pull out the log and sign it, with out them noticing what is going on. I wish there was a rule that if you take a pic of the container and email it to the CO it would qualify as a find. There are times I have to wait a long time even after the find to sign it because of a muggle in the area. I could easily snap a pic of it without them noticing and move on. I have done this a couple of times but never as my one find for the day to keep the streak going. I make sure to sign at least one a day. In those situations I feel it is better for the cache. Sure I could sign it but then it might get muggled. I would be happy if someone did that for one of our hides rather then take the chance of it getting taken and I have to go replace it.

-WarNinjas

[+Sol seaker]

Sure, then all those people who complain about paying too much for containers will really have something to complain about.

[+waterloo.bob]

So I guess the consensus is nuh-uh. Never mind. It was just a thought. Amazing how some people get bent out of shape over conjecture. Then again...

[AZcachemeister]

So I guess the consensus is nuh-uh. Never mind. It was just a thought. Amazing how some people get bent out of shape over conjecture. Then again...

 

Well, good on ya for trying to come up with a definitive answer to the old issue of un-signable logs.

Perhaps there will someday be a way to log your find that doesn't involve signing a logsheet. I'm not sure I'm looking forward to that day, since pushing a button on my electronic device really can't compare with the satisfaction of actually scribbling my username on a scrap of paper.

[+SwineFlew]

I don't think it's heresy, and it would be more convenient on micros, but finding an dry ammo can on top of some hill with a big honkin log book in there, with page-long entries dating back years (there's a mountain-top cache around here that has a pre-geocaching log book in there dating clear back to the 60s), people drawing full-page pictures, muggles writing in there saying "why the heck is this box out here?"...all that would be missing from your copyrighted vision.

 

Admittedly, you don't see a big (dry) honkin log book very often, and when I do come across one I have a hard time thinking of what to say, but it's a particularly good aspect of the game.

 

I know which mountain you are talking about and yep, there are plans to hit that hump in a few weeks, stay tune. Yep, I found a climbing partner.

Edited July 31, 2012 by SwineFlew

[+Chrysalides]

So I guess the consensus is nuh-uh. Never mind. It was just a thought. Amazing how some people get bent out of shape over conjecture. Then again...

If you want to experience "bent out of shape", try mentioning one of the other competing games by name, and see how fast this thread gets locked

 

There was one thread on BlueTooth logging that had a lot more negatively toned posts. I thought this one is fairly civil as such threads go.

[+Ms.Scrabbler]

So I guess the consensus is nuh-uh. Never mind. It was just a thought. Amazing how some people get bent out of shape over conjecture. Then again...

 

Well, good on ya for trying to come up with a definitive answer to the old issue of un-signable logs.

Perhaps there will someday be a way to log your find that doesn't involve signing a logsheet. I'm not sure I'm looking forward to that day, since pushing a button on my electronic device really can't compare with the satisfaction of actually scribbling my username on a scrap of paper.

+1

[+popokiiti]

Knowing my luck with electronics and batteries......I'd rather stick with a pen!

[+tozainamboku]

So I guess the consensus is nuh-uh. Never mind. It was just a thought. Amazing how some people get bent out of shape over conjecture. Then again...

 

Well, good on ya for trying to come up with a definitive answer to the old issue of un-signable logs.

Perhaps there will someday be a way to log your find that doesn't involve signing a logsheet. I'm not sure I'm looking forward to that day, since pushing a button on my electronic device really can't compare with the satisfaction of actually scribbling my username on a scrap of paper.

I'm not sure that their isn't a way to "log" your find other than signing the logsheet. There seem to be many cachers who are quite comfortable posting a found log online when they were unable to sign the physical log for one reason or another. And plenty of cache owners who will let these logs stand. Even when a cache owner wants "proof" that you found the cache, most are willing to accept a photograph or even a description of what the found in the cache as proof. There isn't even a consensus about what constitutes "signing" a physical log. Besides stickers and stamps, some people just write an illegible squiggle or leave some other mark in the log book. Some sign a team name instead of the names of the individual cachers in their group.

 

Signing the physical log to me is little more than a formality. Certainly opening up the cache and getting the log out may be part of the challenge the owner intends for you to meet, and singing a log may be the easiest way to "prove" you met the challenge. And even when this isn't the owner's intent, finding the log is generally a good way of knowing you found the cache. But the online log should not, IMO, be view as a score in any way. So I consider any effort to find a "better" method to "log" caches a waste of time.

 

If you were to have formal geocaching competitions where competitors had to find the same caches in some period of time then you can talk about some special way to confirm finds on these caches. I'd probably suggest something like this.

[+Planet]

 

I don't know. I get more compliments on this big honkin' logbook, than I would ever get on on an instant logger. It even looks like people are writing neater and taking the time to take care of the book. It has been out there since 2005.

Cache page.

 

I prefer the old fashioned method. If I hike to a cache, it wasn't a hike to play with electronics. Some things do not need change.

Something electronic won't last long in the wild. QR codes are already done somewhere else. I saw one once and it eas ruined from the weather.I like the physical log book. How would I know someone wouldn't post a photo of the QR code on Facebook and 50 people start logging it from their couch?

Edited July 31, 2012 by Planet

[+Planet]

Oh. Besides. People can now log in the field directly from their phones and actually say something interesting about their visit. I always write more than just Found it, or TFTC, in my logs. And I expect more than that from people who find my caches.

[+Planet]

Just last week, I didn't have a pen. It's happened more than once. There is always some way to show you were there.

 

Toothpick and a lighter:

 

I've also used a stick and mud to sign a log. Crushed berries make ink too.

 

In the very few micro caches I own, I tape the log sheet to a toothpick to roll it up. This gives people something to grab onto, to pull it out and makes rolling it back up tight easier.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Planet

[+Chrysalides]

I prefer the old fashioned method. If I hike to a cache, it wasn't a hike to play with electronics. Some things do not need change.

I've heard this many times, and even used it myself. I think what I (and others) are saying here is : "I've reached a level I'm comfortable with, and I don't want it to change".

 

Consider geocaching. GPS didn't exist before 1978, and highly accurate civilian signals weren't available until 12 years ago. Orienteering and letterboxing exists way before that. One could just as well argue that things didn't need to change with letterboxing and there's no need for geocaching.

 

I'd say the best test something new is to introduce it and see if it sinks or takes off.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Chrysalides

[+Planet]

We have not changed orienteering or letterboxing. They still work the same way.

Apples vs oranges.

[+Chrysalides]

We have not changed orienteering or letterboxing. They still work the same way.

Apples vs oranges.

Letterboxing could be "hiking to a cache" as well, and arguably a lot more old fashioned. With availability of a new tool (GPS) a new game was created. With other tools, other new games can be created.

 

And why shouldn't geocaching change? The game, the technology, and geocaching.com has changed constantly throughout its 10+ years of existence since Dave Ulmer's first geostash. You, more than most people, realize that, of course. Heck, even the name changed. You started geocaching with very basic and fairly expensive (by today's standards) handheld hiking units, I assume. When I started, paperless caching was mature. Many players these days didn't know geocaching before smartphones and the ability to pull up cache information any time they want (and have a data signal).

[+Planet]

Yes, I do know. But I can't stop it.