Religion and caching?

[+SwineFlew]

I found a puzzle cache once that require you to look up in the bible for answers. In a way, its pushing an agenda.

 

If I setup an easy puzzle quiz about a group that help fight for breast cancer, would it get pass the reviewer? Very likely not because its pushing an agenda. (btw, I lost two aunts to it and third one is fighting it right now)

[+niraD]

I found a puzzle cache once that require you to look up in the bible for answers. In a way, its pushing an agenda.

No more so than a puzzle cache that requires you to look up Shakespearean sonnets, or Pokemon, or movie quotes, or sports trivia.

[Mr.Yuck]

Actually, a cache (or trackable) dedicated to religion is not against the guidelines. A cache listing page that promotes a religious agenda is against the guidelines.

Like this one.

Keep in mind (and I thought of this several hours after first reading your post) that the cache owner of the religious tract cache lives in a State where the reviewer allowed caches from all over the State, and in many cases well over 100 miles from the coordinates, to be incorporated into Geo-art in a lake, before being reprimanded by Groundspeak. It's a fact of life some reviewers are less strict than others, and an observation made by BrianSnat in the 3rd or 4th post to the thread. For example, If TTJ picked up that religious tract cache, and moved it 150 miles west into the Adirondacks, it ain't getting published. Just my opinion, of course. Who knows how appeals would react to TTJ's cache if it were originally rejected somewhere.

I'm sorry, what's the agenda of that cache, other than to talk about a type of swag one might find in a cache? I edited what I wanted to say pretty brutally before I submitted the cache for the review process, which by the way, included a vetting by other reviewers than just NHPride.

 

Do not get me wrong, TTJ!! You're talking to a guy who thinks the whole commercial/Agenda thing is completely ridiculous. I regularly hide and seek caches on an alternative Geocaching site where there are no such rules. Did you know that I hosted an event in April 2012, and the event page contained the restaurant's logo, and a link to their menu? OMG, the horror!!

 

An agenda is in the eyes of the beholder, and it's very unfortunate for a cache owner if that beholder happens to be their reviewer, or Joe Geocacher who is somehow offended, and has nothing better to do than fire off an email to contact@Groundspeak.com. Oh look, someone from Ontario replied:

 

As soon as someone writes on his cache page that I should/must become a member of a church, a library or even a McDonalds, he crossed the line. Information about a church, a politician, a Burger King or whatever is fine

Well, now, generally speaking.

It used to be just mentioning a business was a Bad Thing. Enough drama erupted about that though that the reviewers can now decide for themselves whether they feel "marketed" to, and decide to publish the listing or not. So yeah, generally speaking, mentioning stuff for informational purposes won't raise a flag; just be careful of reviewers could infer.

(just thought I'd add

 

Due to a combination of strict reviewer interpretation of the guidelines, and player backlash and taking their complaints "higher up", things once got so out of hand in Ontario that you couldn't even say "park across the street from McDonalds", or "$5 Tim Horton's gift card for the FTF". I am 1,000% convinced that "this cache contains religious pamphlets" would not have passed muster either.

 

To answer your very simple question "where's the agenda on that cache?" To me, there is none. But that's just me.

[+thebruce0]

Oh look, someone from Ontario replied

Ontario's a friggin' hot spot for most any of the hot/trendy location-based games.

It was also the test-bed zone for the organized group hunt event type, which had drama of its own. Drama drama drama. It moves the world along... =P

 

An agenda is in the eyes of the beholder, and it's very unfortunate for a cache owner if that beholder happens to be their reviewer, or Joe Geocacher who is somehow offended, and has nothing better to do than fire off an email to contact@Groundspeak.com.

Indeed!

 

However I can understand the existence of the agenda guideline, it's just another one of those things that is very subjective to nail down, when questions are raised. for better or worse =P

Edited September 23, 2012 by thebruce0

[+Harry Dolphin]

I am 1,000% convinced that "this cache contains religious pamphlets" would not have passed muster either.

 

One can only be 100% convinced.

[+Jumpin' Jack Cache]

Actually, a cache (or trackable) dedicated to religion is not against the guidelines. A cache listing page that promotes a religious agenda is against the guidelines.

Like this one.

Keep in mind (and I thought of this several hours after first reading your post) that the cache owner of the religious tract cache lives in a State where the reviewer allowed caches from all over the State, and in many cases well over 100 miles from the coordinates, to be incorporated into Geo-art in a lake, before being reprimanded by Groundspeak. It's a fact of life some reviewers are less strict than others, and an observation made by BrianSnat in the 3rd or 4th post to the thread. For example, If TTJ picked up that religious tract cache, and moved it 150 miles west into the Adirondacks, it ain't getting published. Just my opinion, of course. Who knows how appeals would react to TTJ's cache if it were originally rejected somewhere.

I'm sorry, what's the agenda of that cache, other than to talk about a type of swag one might find in a cache? I edited what I wanted to say pretty brutally before I submitted the cache for the review process, which by the way, included a vetting by other reviewers than just NHPride.

 

Do not get me wrong, TTJ!! You're talking to a guy who thinks the whole commercial/Agenda thing is completely ridiculous. I regularly hide and seek caches on an alternative Geocaching site where there are no such rules. Did you know that I hosted an event in April 2012, and the event page contained the restaurant's logo, and a link to their menu? OMG, the horror!!

 

An agenda is in the eyes of the beholder, and it's very unfortunate for a cache owner if that beholder happens to be their reviewer, or Joe Geocacher who is somehow offended, and has nothing better to do than fire off an email to contact@Groundspeak.com. Oh look, someone from Ontario replied:

 

As soon as someone writes on his cache page that I should/must become a member of a church, a library or even a McDonalds, he crossed the line. Information about a church, a politician, a Burger King or whatever is fine

Well, now, generally speaking.

It used to be just mentioning a business was a Bad Thing. Enough drama erupted about that though that the reviewers can now decide for themselves whether they feel "marketed" to, and decide to publish the listing or not. So yeah, generally speaking, mentioning stuff for informational purposes won't raise a flag; just be careful of reviewers could infer.

(just thought I'd add

 

Due to a combination of strict reviewer interpretation of the guidelines, and player backlash and taking their complaints "higher up", things once got so out of hand in Ontario that you couldn't even say "park across the street from McDonalds", or "$5 Tim Horton's gift card for the FTF". I am 1,000% convinced that "this cache contains religious pamphlets" would not have passed muster either.

 

To answer your very simple question "where's the agenda on that cache?" To me, there is none. But that's just me.

Yeah, who'd a thunk them Canadians would be so dramatic.

 

Actually, TTJ discussed the idea for that one here very openly before ever actually submitting it, surprised your historian self didn't remember that

 

(both digs friendly)

[Mr.Yuck]

I am 1,000% convinced that "this cache contains religious pamphlets" would not have passed muster either.

 

One can only be 100% convinced.

 

True, sorry.

[+AmishHacker]

On of my favorite caches was located in a TINY church house. Tiny...i mean microscopic....room for 4 people. It was a payer building. It was done perfectly. The cache brought you to an interesting location. WHAT CACHING USED TO DO. You did not have to pray or say any hail Mary's. Just good location.

 

I would love to see any tiny religion building no matter what the type of religion.

 

AH

[+wimseyguy]

On of my favorite caches was located in a TINY church house. Tiny...i mean microscopic....room for 4 people. It was a payer building. It was done perfectly. The cache brought you to an interesting location. WHAT CACHING USED TO DO. You did not have to pray or say any hail Mary's. Just good location.

 

I would love to see any tiny religion building no matter what the type of religion.

 

AH

So it was a pay for pray kinda place?

Might go against the commercial guideline too.

[DannyCaffeine]

It depends. If it was just the theme I would be okay with it. If it was a box of chick tracts and things trying to get me to convert I would take offense. I think it is okay to educate people about different faiths because understanding brings tolerance. However trying to force me to convert just makes me a bit uncomfortable.

[+Walts Hunting]

A caches theme doesn't matter to me.

[+St.Matthew]

A caches theme doesn't matter to me.

 

+1. I was FTF on a sort of Buddhism themed cache and was not offended in the least. I have this magical ability to disagree with others without being offended.

Edited September 30, 2012 by St.Matthew

[+Understandblue]

I have this magical ability to disagree with others without being offended.

 

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

On of my favorite caches was located in a TINY church house. Tiny...i mean microscopic....room for 4 people. It was a payer building. It was done perfectly. The cache brought you to an interesting location. WHAT CACHING USED TO DO. You did not have to pray or say any hail Mary's. Just good location.

 

I would love to see any tiny religion building no matter what the type of religion.

 

AH

As it should be.

A church (structure) is only a building -- nothing truly 'religious' in that.

What constitutes a "church" are the belief(s) that its' membership adhere to. Nothing wrong with that, either -- but therein lies the possible agenda issue.

 

We truly enjoy my ever-expanding photo portfolio of church (buildings)... regardless of the practice or belief of its' membership. Mostly older churches in particular, but many newer ones also. "Grandness" has little to do with it, small; large; tiny; ginormous, it doesn't matter. Would certainly love to include a 4-person church into it -- we have small ones, but nuttin' like that!

[+Castle Mischief]

When I'm caching I'm looking for a box of stuff in the woods. I don't care what you named your box of stuff and I don't care what pieces of paper you put in your box of stuff so long as one of them provides a place to put my caching name on it.

 

If (universal) you are so lacking in conviction that you fear your world view will be altered by the words of others then that's not really the problem of people that insist on writing or speaking those words.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Castle Mischief

[+Castle Mischief]

as caches are not allowed to promote an agenda.

Religion and agendas related to it are expressed very heavily all over the place. For the most part, earth-caches push a strong agenda of evolution, age of the earth (its only 6,000 years old, not millions or billions), and other false agendas.

 

So even with everyone's "anti-agenda" stance that they want to believe they are supporting, they are indeed pushing an agenda.

 

I don't believe in radio waves therefore all caches are pushing an agenda.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Castle Mischief