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Frustrating DNFs


timk54

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My wife and I have gotten back into Geocaching after a 5 year layoff. We love caching together and we enjoy putting those smiley faces on the map. We like to work on particular areas and see if we can find all the caches then go on to another area of town. The problem is missing caches. We and others list the DNF and the COs don't seem to respond to the request for maintenance or messages about missing caches. Am I expecting to much from cache owners to expect a response? Isn't owning a cache something like owning a pet. You have it now take care of it.

We put out an ammo can on our gold claim in the desert 5 years ago and folks are still finding it. I always respond to their logs.

We decided to wait until we hit 300 finds to start putting out caches here in town and with 292 in the record book that will be soon. Believe me, when I post a cache I promise to respond to all questions from cachers and reports of maintenence needed or cache missing will be cause for an immediate inspection.

Sorry if if I seem to be to harsh on COs but I think if you are going to own it you should maintain it.

Of course, most of the COs out there are responsible and great Geocachers. Thank you goes out to them.

How do we deal with the others?

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Yes, owning a cache is a responsibility. No question about that. However, a DNF is not necessarily sufficient grounds for a cache maintenance run. Even several DNFs in a row may not be a big deal, depending on the cache. Just because you (and maybe a couple of cachers before you) weren't able to find the cache does not equate to it being missing, although, several DNF's on a simple cache that previously was found by everyone should alert a good cache owner!

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I would say that cache ownership is nothing like owning a pet. I feed my dogs and pick up their poop. I haven't had to do either with my caches. :laughing:

 

I DNF means you couldnt find the cache. If the cache is missing and you know for sure then log a NM. Wait for a month or so and if the cache isn't fixed then log a NA. Some COs have other things then caching going on in their lives. Also some COs just don't care and thats why the NA is so nice. The log goes straight to the reviewer too. Hope this helps. :D

Edited by the4dirtydogs
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So true that a DNF does not mean the cache is missing. Several DNFs don't necessarily mean the cache is missing. But if you send the CO a personal email asking for help after you log your DNF, I would hope that he/she would respond.

 

I respond to almost all of the emails I get about my caches. Almost all. There are some cachers in my area who love to email for help but never ever respond when I email them. They're on their own now. :blink:

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I always log my dnf, if there are several in a row and I am pretty sure I was in the right location, I will log a NM and ask the CO politely if they could check the cache is still in place. I will often check as well if the CO is still active. There are a couple of caches round here with several dnf, when I checked the CO had not been on the site since 2010, in those cases I logged a NM too but after a week I sent a NA request.

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Yes, owning a cache is a responsibility. No question about that. However, a DNF is not necessarily sufficient grounds for a cache maintenance run. Even several DNFs in a row may not be a big deal, depending on the cache. Just because you (and maybe a couple of cachers before you) weren't able to find the cache does not equate to it being missing, although, several DNF's on a simple cache that previously was found by everyone should alert a good cache owner!

The pet analogy was probably a bad one but at least it got a response. Love you pet owners for that.

As far as caching is concerned I just feel that those who hide the caches should be as enthusiastic about maintaining them as I am about finding them. I have logged DNFs and only one CO answered my request for clarification. His one sentance wasn't really a hint but it mede me rethink the cache and made the light bulb go on. I found the cache the next time I was near that neighborhood.

Thank you for your response,

Timk54

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I always log my dnf, if there are several in a row and I am pretty sure I was in the right location, I will log a NM and ask the CO politely if they could check the cache is still in place. I will often check as well if the CO is still active. There are a couple of caches round here with several dnf, when I checked the CO had not been on the site since 2010, in those cases I logged a NM too but after a week I sent a NA request.

I didn't even know what an NA response was. Thanks for the tip. There are quit a few caches in this area that need cleaning up or deactivation.

timk54

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Yes, owning a cache is a responsibility. No question about that. However, a DNF is not necessarily sufficient grounds for a cache maintenance run. Even several DNFs in a row may not be a big deal, depending on the cache. Just because you (and maybe a couple of cachers before you) weren't able to find the cache does not equate to it being missing, although, several DNF's on a simple cache that previously was found by everyone should alert a good cache owner!

The pet analogy was probably a bad one but at least it got a response. Love you pet owners for that.

As far as caching is concerned I just feel that those who hide the caches should be as enthusiastic about maintaining them as I am about finding them. I have logged DNFs and only one CO answered my request for clarification. His one sentance wasn't really a hint but it mede me rethink the cache and made the light bulb go on. I found the cache the next time I was near that neighborhood.

Thank you for your response,

Timk54

 

Some cache owners will provide a hint on a DNF, but most will not. A separate email requesting help from the cache owner will generally do the trick though, as long as the cache owner is still active.

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If you (someone) DNF's my cache and mentions something about help in the log, that's not enough to get me to send them a hint.

 

If you (they) actually send a PM asking for help AND INCLUDE THE RESPONSE ADDRESS, I will reply.

My first reply will be to ask if you want a gentle nudge, or a flashing neon sign. Then I will give you the hint you want.

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If you (someone) DNF's my cache and mentions something about help in the log, that's not enough to get me to send them a hint.

 

If you (they) actually send a PM asking for help AND INCLUDE THE RESPONSE ADDRESS, I will reply.

My first reply will be to ask if you want a gentle nudge, or a flashing neon sign. Then I will give you the hint you want.

I appreciate your response. I guess many of you cache owners that have multiple hides get a lot of emails.

Sometimes all I want is to know if the cache is still there. Most of the time I wait until another DNF shows up until I PM the CO. Sometimes I see that someone else found the cache after my DNF. Then I try it again and if I don't find it I PM the CO for a hint.I would appreciate an answer even if it is "The cache is still there, No Hints".

Just ignoring the questions from other Geocachers is bad for the Geocaching Community. Every sport or hobby has to continue to encourage new participants or it with wither and die.

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What I do, and some will agree or disagree, is when I am about to make a caching trip, is I load the caches in GSAK and see which haven't been found for a long while and have DNFs. Then I research which ones might be because maybe a muggle was there, they are new to the game, it really is missing and may need a NM, or has NM and see if they CO is still active and may need a NA. If it was one of the first ones I would give them a try, and for the others I would either take action or ignore them and let someone else deal with them.

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Sometimes all I want is to know if the cache is still there. Most of the time I wait until another DNF shows up until I PM the CO. Sometimes I see that someone else found the cache after my DNF. Then I try it again and if I don't find it I PM the CO for a hint.I would appreciate an answer even if it is "The cache is still there, No Hints".

Just ignoring the questions from other Geocachers is bad for the Geocaching Community. Every sport or hobby has to continue to encourage new participants or it with wither and die.

 

If you're the first of a new sequence of DNFs and you ask me if the cache is there, I will automatically tell you that it's there, regardless of me really knowing or not. And I will never respond to a PM regarding a DNF unless you INLCUDE YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS.

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If you (someone) DNF's my cache and mentions something about help in the log, that's not enough to get me to send them a hint.

 

If you (they) actually send a PM asking for help AND INCLUDE THE RESPONSE ADDRESS, I will reply.

My first reply will be to ask if you want a gentle nudge, or a flashing neon sign. Then I will give you the hint you want.

I appreciate your response. I guess many of you cache owners that have multiple hides get a lot of emails.

Sometimes all I want is to know if the cache is still there. Most of the time I wait until another DNF shows up until I PM the CO. Sometimes I see that someone else found the cache after my DNF. Then I try it again and if I don't find it I PM the CO for a hint.I would appreciate an answer even if it is "The cache is still there, No Hints".

Just ignoring the questions from other Geocachers is bad for the Geocaching Community. Every sport or hobby has to continue to encourage new participants or it with wither and die.

 

Just out of curiosity, how fast do you expect a response when you send a cache owner a message? I just got back from a week long trip where internet access was very spotty and unreliable. Among the hundreds of email messages I found when I got back to the U.S. and had a good internet connection was one from someone that DNFd one of my caches a few days ago and asked me to check to see if it's still there. In my case, I was 7300 miles away when the request to "check on the cache to see if it's still there" was made. Yes, it's important for all of us to maintain our caches, but many of us have a life outside geocaching and sometimes that can get in the way of an immediate response to someone that wants to know if a cache is still there.

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Some CO's are very good about maintaining their caches. I pride myself on actively checking my caches and if I see 3 DNF's on an easy hide I'll go out and check.

 

Other CO's don't care and love watching the DNFs pile up (even on 'easy caches'. If the CO does not respond to your emails you may try emailing one of the past finders. I have lots of phone numbers and if I cannot find a cache and feel it is missing I'll call a previous finder. Usually I just overlooked it, but it is nice to know it is missing and be able to report that to the CO.

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If you (someone) DNF's my cache and mentions something about help in the log, that's not enough to get me to send them a hint.

 

If you (they) actually send a PM asking for help AND INCLUDE THE RESPONSE ADDRESS, I will reply.

My first reply will be to ask if you want a gentle nudge, or a flashing neon sign. Then I will give you the hint you want.

I appreciate your response. I guess many of you cache owners that have multiple hides get a lot of emails.

Sometimes all I want is to know if the cache is still there. Most of the time I wait until another DNF shows up until I PM the CO. Sometimes I see that someone else found the cache after my DNF. Then I try it again and if I don't find it I PM the CO for a hint.I would appreciate an answer even if it is "The cache is still there, No Hints".

Just ignoring the questions from other Geocachers is bad for the Geocaching Community. Every sport or hobby has to continue to encourage new participants or it with wither and die.

 

Just out of curiosity, how fast do you expect a response when you send a cache owner a message? I just got back from a week long trip where internet access was very spotty and unreliable. Among the hundreds of email messages I found when I got back to the U.S. and had a good internet connection was one from someone that DNFd one of my caches a few days ago and asked me to check to see if it's still there. In my case, I was 7300 miles away when the request to "check on the cache to see if it's still there" was made. Yes, it's important for all of us to maintain our caches, but many of us have a life outside geocaching and sometimes that can get in the way of an immediate response to someone that wants to know if a cache is still there.

thank you for your response. I know a lot of you cache owners travel and enjoy life beyond geocaching. I sure wish I could. I don't expect an immediate answer to my question regarding a cache that I thing needs Maintenance or may be missing but If I get no response in a month and then no response to a followup message to the cache owner I feel the cache owner is not being responsible. Maybe in their zeal to propogate so many caches some COs lose control of how many they can maintain. I know and appreciate the work a cache owner puts in making their hide special so thank you for that effort. If you are out of town a simple message to a geocacher letting him know you will check it when you get back to the area would be nice.

thank you

Timk54

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If you (someone) DNF's my cache and mentions something about help in the log, that's not enough to get me to send them a hint.

 

If you (they) actually send a PM asking for help AND INCLUDE THE RESPONSE ADDRESS, I will reply.

My first reply will be to ask if you want a gentle nudge, or a flashing neon sign. Then I will give you the hint you want.

+1 on all counts, but esp. on including an email address if you want a reply. I'm always amazed when folks email me through the site wanting something and don't include their email address so that I can easily respond. I've even take the trouble to respond through their site profile and mention to include their email next time, and then have them do the same thing again. Sheesh.

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>INCLUDE THE RESPONSE ADDRESS

 

EXACTLY !!!

how hard is that :-)

 

I more often get faster and better and more usefull hints answers or spoilers

from last finders over CO..

I am sorry, I know it is bad style to ask last finders, but they know better where it is,

and they are also often more active playing this game, over (some) CO who do mostly other things.

 

I only ask/cry for help, if a hide really drive me nuts,

normally I live fine with out finding them all :-)

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Sometimes all I want is to know if the cache is still there. Most of the time I wait until another DNF shows up until I PM the CO. Sometimes I see that someone else found the cache after my DNF. Then I try it again and if I don't find it I PM the CO for a hint.I would appreciate an answer even if it is "The cache is still there, No Hints".

Just ignoring the questions from other Geocachers is bad for the Geocaching Community. Every sport or hobby has to continue to encourage new participants or it with wither and die.

 

Actually, I would not react to a DNF log for one of my caches unless I suspect that it might got lost. I often log DNFs myself and except in cases where I have some serious doubt that the cache is still there (in which case I will mention this) I'm neither expecting the owner to go check the cache or to reply with "The cache is still there."

There are caches that I cannot find even when I go there five times. This is not a question of whether someone is a beginner. There are tricky hideouts that are simply too tricky for me. I would be worried if I could not find a 1*/1* cache, but for a more difficult cache it can easily happen that I fail several times.

 

Cezanne

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HINT: set your email preferences "not quite correctly" and the response you expect (even though it is sent) goes to never-never land......

 

If your email preference is not set as below, a response to you using the "reply" button will most likely be received by the person that goes by the name of "no reply"....

 

068da2d5-6b17-40d8-90e3-1c23db25c26b.png

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HINT: set your email preferences "not quite correctly" and the response you expect (even though it is sent) goes to never-never land......

 

If your email preference is not set as below, a response to you using the "reply" button will most likely be received by the person that goes by the name of "no reply"....

 

068da2d5-6b17-40d8-90e3-1c23db25c26b.png

I do not show my email address to others (relatively few people do). It just means that my email is not displayed when people view my public profile. My email address still gets included when I send messages to other geocachers via geocaching.com.

 

There is a way to prevent your email address from being included in sent messages, but that particular checkbox isn't it. Instead, when you create the message you wish to send someone, there are checkboxes below the message box, including: "I want to send my email address along with this message." If you don't check that box, then your email address will not be included.

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thank you for your response. I know a lot of you cache owners travel and enjoy life beyond geocaching. I sure wish I could. I don't expect an immediate answer to my question regarding a cache that I thing needs Maintenance or may be missing but If I get no response in a month and then no response to a followup message to the cache owner I feel the cache owner is not being responsible. Maybe in their zeal to propogate so many caches some COs lose control of how many they can maintain. I know and appreciate the work a cache owner puts in making their hide special so thank you for that effort. If you are out of town a simple message to a geocacher letting him know you will check it when you get back to the area would be nice.

thank you

Timk54

 

Dunno. There seems to be quite a bit of entitlement in your posts. No. A CO is not required to respond to your DNFs. No. A CO is not required to run right out and check on your DNF. (Example: Someone DNFed the second stage of one of my multi caches last January. I finally got out to check last weekend. It was still there. They are very good cachers, so I did rate it as a 40% chance being missing. But it was still there. It is a rather steep 300' climb over a very rocky area. Took me over three hours to check on the stage.)

I've got a number of caches with strenuous hikes to get to them. They may not get found often, but they are usually very nice caches in great places. If your sense of entitlement prevails, (that a CO MUST respond immediately, that a CO must respond to your DNF) then I would probably archive about half my caches. PNG is the only thing that fits your demands. What this sport was, originally, was taking people on a nice hike to a pretty place. Those endowed with entitlement seek immediate responses/CO checks.

Ignore caches that annoy you. How simple is that! Stop making unreasonable demands. Go find a lamp post cache. That will keep you happy.

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thank you for your response. I know a lot of you cache owners travel and enjoy life beyond geocaching. I sure wish I could. I don't expect an immediate answer to my question regarding a cache that I thing needs Maintenance or may be missing but If I get no response in a month and then no response to a followup message to the cache owner I feel the cache owner is not being responsible. Maybe in their zeal to propogate so many caches some COs lose control of how many they can maintain. I know and appreciate the work a cache owner puts in making their hide special so thank you for that effort. If you are out of town a simple message to a geocacher letting him know you will check it when you get back to the area would be nice.

thank you

Timk54

 

Dunno. There seems to be quite a bit of entitlement in your posts. No. A CO is not required to respond to your DNFs. No. A CO is not required to run right out and check on your DNF. (Example: Someone DNFed the second stage of one of my multi caches last January. I finally got out to check last weekend. It was still there. They are very good cachers, so I did rate it as a 40% chance being missing. But it was still there. It is a rather steep 300' climb over a very rocky area. Took me over three hours to check on the stage.)

I've got a number of caches with strenuous hikes to get to them. They may not get found often, but they are usually very nice caches in great places. If your sense of entitlement prevails, (that a CO MUST respond immediately, that a CO must respond to your DNF) then I would probably archive about half my caches. PNG is the only thing that fits your demands. What this sport was, originally, was taking people on a nice hike to a pretty place. Those endowed with entitlement seek immediate responses/CO checks.

Ignore caches that annoy you. How simple is that! Stop making unreasonable demands. Go find a lamp post cache. That will keep you happy.

Um, perhaps I read it differently from you, but I didn't see the OP demanding that the cache owner respond to DNFs... the OP sent an actual message, from what I understand. And they did say that after waiting a month, they sent a second message. So... not sure what that's all about.

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Um, perhaps I read it differently from you, but I didn't see the OP demanding that the cache owner respond to DNFs... the OP sent an actual message, from what I understand. And they did say that after waiting a month, they sent a second message. So... not sure what that's all about.

 

My point was that COs are not required to respond to e-mails. You may. I frequently do. But there is no requirement that a CO respond to e-mail. OP seems to be demanding that CO's respond to his/her e-mail. And that is entitlement. S/He is expecting something that is not required.

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I sympathise with anyone that expects a politely-worded and relevant email to a CO to be answered. As a CO, you're adding something to the game for finders to enjoy: it seems oddly blinkered and self-centred to subsequently ignore messages sent to you concerning the cache.

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I sympathise with anyone that expects a politely-worded and relevant email to a CO to be answered. As a CO, you're adding something to the game for finders to enjoy: it seems oddly blinkered and self-centred to subsequently ignore messages sent to you concerning the cache.

 

I appears to me, however, that the thread starter also expects reactions to DNF logs. Among others he wrote "We put out an ammo can on our gold claim in the desert 5 years ago and folks are still finding it. I always respond to their logs." In another post he wrote "I have logged DNFs and only one CO answered my request for clarification. His one sentance wasn't really a hint but it mede me rethink the cache and made the light bulb go on. I found the cache the next time I was near that neighborhood."

Statements like those make me belief that the thread starter expects cache hiders to react to whatever is written in logs. If someone writes a log (note or DNF) that he would like to get a hint, I would not react at all in many cases. I will react if I'm concerned that something with the cache is ok, but not necessarily just because someone has troubles with a certain aspect for a cache. Not every cache is for everyone and my goal as a cache hider is not to maximize the number of finds.

 

 

Cezanne

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I sympathise with anyone that expects a politely-worded and relevant email to a CO to be answered. As a CO, you're adding something to the game for finders to enjoy: it seems oddly blinkered and self-centred to subsequently ignore messages sent to you concerning the cache.

While I certainly would encourage COs to be friendly, there are a zillion of reasons someone might not respond, many quite reasonable. Don't be so quick to assume the explanation is that they are self-centered. And, besides, what if they are self-centered? Would you rather they not hide caches for you to look for?

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I don't typically put a DNF on a cache that I don't find on the first time, unless it is an obvious light pole with damage or something that is easy and and again obvious missing. In fact I usually go back a couple times to make sure I am not completely overlooking it. I went to one site 3 times then took friends to it as it seemed obvious to me then did a DNF. I did not expect the owner to reply but when I become a CO, I will pay attention to the DNF's and if there is a few on a fairly easy hide I would probably take the time to go check and then post a note that yep, it is still there or come prepared to either take it down or make a new hide. Another time I went to one cache -didn't post I couldn't find it. Went a second time with someone I knew recently found it and asked her to tell me if I was warm or not (we were night caching) and couldn't find it. Went about a week later and looked, still no find but later that evening someone found it --- felt kind of dumb and went back a 4th time and got the smiley. I was just going to e-mail the owner (who I had just met) when I saw the previous find.

 

On the one mentioned above I did e-mail the CO, kind of thought I might get a curtesy response but didn't & haven't. I will watch that cache and see if anyone finds it before I ever go back. But here is my question, why are there still caches out there with several DNF's and not being found for more than a year and still posted? To be clear on some of these I have not contacted the owner in some but others have the same owner who I can see is an current person who finds caches so it makes me wonder why they don't just post a note so we know whether we are blind or it may have been muggled. You don't have to send e-mails to everyone - (at least I don't thinke) just post a note and let us know you give a care of the over 100 caches you have hidden in a series.

 

I have enjoyed caching and I just think I will keep in mind some of what I am reading here when I go to set out my first finds. I will probably be one who will check things and post notes so everyone can see the cache is taken care of rather than just an e-mail to those who take the time to e-mail. I won't post hints in a note just that I checked and it is there... an e-mail will be required and a pointed question for a hint.

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*snip*

On the one mentioned above I did e-mail the CO, kind of thought I might get a curtesy response but didn't & haven't. I will watch that cache and see if anyone finds it before I ever go back. But here is my question, why are there still caches out there with several DNF's and not being found for more than a year and still posted? To be clear on some of these I have not contacted the owner in some but others have the same owner who I can see is an current person who finds caches so it makes me wonder why they don't just post a note so we know whether we are blind or it may have been muggled. You don't have to send e-mails to everyone - (at least I don't thinke) just post a note and let us know you give a care of the over 100 caches you have hidden in a series.

 

I have enjoyed caching and I just think I will keep in mind some of what I am reading here when I go to set out my first finds. I will probably be one who will check things and post notes so everyone can see the cache is taken care of rather than just an e-mail to those who take the time to e-mail. I won't post hints in a note just that I checked and it is there... an e-mail will be required and a pointed question for a hint.

Reviewers don't take action on something unless there's an NA posted, from my understanding. Which makes sense... if they had to go through all the cache listings in their area to monitor DNFs, it would be at least a full-time job, if not more.

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I don't typically put a DNF on a cache that I don't find on the first time, unless it is an obvious light pole with damage or something that is easy and and again obvious missing. I

 

But here is my question, why are there still caches out there with several DNF's and not being found for more than a year and still posted?

 

I would strongly object against automatic archivals solely based on DNF logs.

I log every single attempt where I fail to find a cache as DNF - that could also be if I leave after 2 minutes.

Some remote or long caches are hardly visited. All DNFs can come from a single group with a similar approach to DNF than mine.

 

As a hider of caches, a DNF log does not necessarily mean for me that I even start to doubt that the cache is still at its place.

It depends a lot on the situation.

 

I have logged many DNFs over the last months where I was 99% sure that the cache was at its place.

 

Cezanne

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But here is my question, why are there still caches out there with several DNF's and not being found for more than a year and still posted? To be clear on some of these I have not contacted the owner in some but others have the same owner who I can see is an current person who finds caches so it makes me wonder why they don't just post a note so we know whether we are blind or it may have been muggled. You don't have to send e-mails to everyone - (at least I don't thinke) just post a note and let us know you give a care of the over 100 caches you have hidden in a series.

 

Why are they there? Because they are hard to find, and don't get a lot of people looking for them? I've got a few like that. I do not understand why there is a problem with that. Nope. I don't babysit cachers either. Though I will usually respond to an e-mail.

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But here is my question, why are there still caches out there with several DNF's and not being found for more than a year and still posted?

 

I think in areas that have suffered with issues that could have compromised caches, there might be a need to be a little more pro-active about checking up on caches. Flooding comes to mind. We had Hurricane Irene blow through here last year and a lot of cache owners haven't checked on their caches. I went to do a multi a few weeks ago where I was pretty certain the first stage was located on a pedestrian bridge that had been replaced following the storm. There are a lot around here like that. I've written notes asking them to please confirm, and nothing. I think in cases like this (and other areas where natural disasters might have compromised the caches) if the cache owners aren't interested in going out and checking on their caches, they should be archived. Perhaps in cases like this if there's no verifiable find within a year or note from the cache owner that they checked on it and everything is good something could be put in place.

 

Patti

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HINT: set your email preferences "not quite correctly" and the response you expect (even though it is sent) goes to never-never land......

 

If your email preference is not set as below, a response to you using the "reply" button will most likely be received by the person that goes by the name of "no reply"....

 

068da2d5-6b17-40d8-90e3-1c23db25c26b.png

I do not show my email address to others (relatively few people do). It just means that my email is not displayed when people view my public profile. My email address still gets included when I send messages to other geocachers via geocaching.com.

 

There is a way to prevent your email address from being included in sent messages, but that particular checkbox isn't it. Instead, when you create the message you wish to send someone, there are checkboxes below the message box, including: "I want to send my email address along with this message." If you don't check that box, then your email address will not be included.

 

(Bolding is mine)

And there's part of the problem. I can't remember the last email I've gotten from someone commenting to me about one of my caches, where the email address is included. I almost ALWAYS have to go to their profile to reply. I usually do, but I can understand others that would just delete the message rather than search out the address to reply. IMO, the page should default to "show my email address" when sending a message. I bet many haven't seen that check box on the bottom of the message window.

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*snip*

On the one mentioned above I did e-mail the CO, kind of thought I might get a curtesy response but didn't & haven't. I will watch that cache and see if anyone finds it before I ever go back. But here is my question, why are there still caches out there with several DNF's and not being found for more than a year and still posted? To be clear on some of these I have not contacted the owner in some but others have the same owner who I can see is an current person who finds caches so it makes me wonder why they don't just post a note so we know whether we are blind or it may have been muggled. You don't have to send e-mails to everyone - (at least I don't thinke) just post a note and let us know you give a care of the over 100 caches you have hidden in a series.

 

I have enjoyed caching and I just think I will keep in mind some of what I am reading here when I go to set out my first finds. I will probably be one who will check things and post notes so everyone can see the cache is taken care of rather than just an e-mail to those who take the time to e-mail. I won't post hints in a note just that I checked and it is there... an e-mail will be required and a pointed question for a hint.

Reviewers don't take action on something unless there's an NA posted, from my understanding. Which makes sense... if they had to go through all the cache listings in their area to monitor DNFs, it would be at least a full-time job, if not more.

Just to be clear... I didn't intend to imply that the reviewer did it. I get the impression that you, as a CO, can either disable it until you have time to look to make sure it is still there or archive it if you just don't want to deal with it.

 

I think a note saying you are looking into it would be good too though then you are not bothered with sending a ton of e-mails. I keep looking at one cache to see if the owner has replaced it or would write a note or maybe even say I got some notes but I know it is still there.

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I don't typically put a DNF on a cache that I don't find on the first time, unless it is an obvious light pole with damage or something that is easy and and again obvious missing. I

 

But here is my question, why are there still caches out there with several DNF's and not being found for more than a year and still posted?

 

I would strongly object against automatic archivals solely based on DNF logs.

I log every single attempt where I fail to find a cache as DNF - that could also be if I leave after 2 minutes.

Some remote or long caches are hardly visited. All DNFs can come from a single group with a similar approach to DNF than mine.

 

As a hider of caches, a DNF log does not necessarily mean for me that I even start to doubt that the cache is still at its place.

It depends a lot on the situation.

 

I have logged many DNFs over the last months where I was 99% sure that the cache was at its place.

 

Cezanne

I am glad you object because I do too. I don't mean a cache being archived just because there are DNF's. I get it that a reviewer only looks at it if there is a NA and will keep that in mind. I also get it that I could post a DNF and someone else comes along and finds it... happened to me recently so I went back and felt like "DUH, it was right under my nose!" I am trying to come up with my own system on how to post or say something if I can't find it. Could be my own blindness that day but then again it could be it just isn't there. I am sure an owner would never know to check a cache if no one posted they couldn't find it but at the same time I don't want to put a DNF if I was just not doing a good enough search. I agree it depends on the situation and am thinking my route for now will be a note unless I have tried a few times and know they are real good attempts.

 

My long run question for why isn't something done is more about the one that is last found a year ago and several experienced hunters have looked and posted DNFs at many different times since the last find. Maybe a storm washed it away? I don't see a NA and I won't do it because I haven't looked for it but I don't want to go bush whacking for a cache that people who are better at this than me haven't found. Sure, maybe I would find it and I could say YAY but at the same time I have plenty others I could find so in the mean time that one I keep going back to and then say Nah, not looking for it right now. Who knows, maybe the owner moved. Maybe there life changed. Maybe (as someone pointed out below) they died. On the on I am thinking for now, I can ignore but think in the next several months if no one finds it I may try and then put a NA myself.

 

I guess my question was more rhetorical and not to ask that they be archived but I thought it fit the topic (at least in my mind) of why doesn't the owner at least acknowledge and do a little something about it... as mentioned above there could be many reasons why.

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But here is my question, why are there still caches out there with several DNF's and not being found for more than a year and still posted? To be clear on some of these I have not contacted the owner in some but others have the same owner who I can see is an current person who finds caches so it makes me wonder why they don't just post a note so we know whether we are blind or it may have been muggled. You don't have to send e-mails to everyone - (at least I don't thinke) just post a note and let us know you give a care of the over 100 caches you have hidden in a series.

 

Why are they there? Because they are hard to find, and don't get a lot of people looking for them? I've got a few like that. I do not understand why there is a problem with that. Nope. I don't babysit cachers either. Though I will usually respond to an e-mail.

In the case of ONE the ones I was referencing above - the person did a series of very easy finds (or they are to me) they are either lamp poles or a few minutes of looking in some bushes. I saw someone I knew found it but when I went there it looks like recently some bushes, plants or some tree was cut down as I can see the base of what was there in the ground and see it on the map. I wrote the CO and said could it be possible that the bushes were cut down? I had been there 3 times but didn't post each time a DNF the third time I brought friends and we all came to the same conclusion so that is when I wrote him.

 

I don't expect to be babysat and wouldn't ask for it. I have done pretty well caching on my own and with friends in making finds. Sure, I am not one with 10 million finds but I for only really caching seriously for about a month, I think I have done ok. I have seen the comments about not puttin the e-mail in a message **note taken** I will do that for now on but when I checked after reading this thread when I send a message it says "UNCHECK if you don't want them to have your e-mail" I didn't uncheck but I really didn't expect a reply by e-mail.... possibly a note in the log would be nice though and I don't think of that as babysitting.

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But here is my question, why are there still caches out there with several DNF's and not being found for more than a year and still posted?

 

I think in areas that have suffered with issues that could have compromised caches, there might be a need to be a little more pro-active about checking up on caches. Flooding comes to mind. We had Hurricane Irene blow through here last year and a lot of cache owners haven't checked on their caches. I went to do a multi a few weeks ago where I was pretty certain the first stage was located on a pedestrian bridge that had been replaced following the storm. There are a lot around here like that. I've written notes asking them to please confirm, and nothing. I think in cases like this (and other areas where natural disasters might have compromised the caches) if the cache owners aren't interested in going out and checking on their caches, they should be archived. Perhaps in cases like this if there's no verifiable find within a year or note from the cache owner that they checked on it and everything is good something could be put in place.

 

Patti

I agree... even if the owner says I agree. Of course, as pointed out - someone needs to do a NA or NM to get something to happen.

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*snip*

On the one mentioned above I did e-mail the CO, kind of thought I might get a curtesy response but didn't & haven't. I will watch that cache and see if anyone finds it before I ever go back. But here is my question, why are there still caches out there with several DNF's and not being found for more than a year and still posted? To be clear on some of these I have not contacted the owner in some but others have the same owner who I can see is an current person who finds caches so it makes me wonder why they don't just post a note so we know whether we are blind or it may have been muggled. You don't have to send e-mails to everyone - (at least I don't thinke) just post a note and let us know you give a care of the over 100 caches you have hidden in a series.

 

I have enjoyed caching and I just think I will keep in mind some of what I am reading here when I go to set out my first finds. I will probably be one who will check things and post notes so everyone can see the cache is taken care of rather than just an e-mail to those who take the time to e-mail. I won't post hints in a note just that I checked and it is there... an e-mail will be required and a pointed question for a hint.

Reviewers don't take action on something unless there's an NA posted, from my understanding. Which makes sense... if they had to go through all the cache listings in their area to monitor DNFs, it would be at least a full-time job, if not more.

 

Actually, reviewers do monitor caches that have had a NM log for an excessive period, will send a "form letter" to the CO asking that it be addressed, and if it isn't, the reviewer may archive the cache.

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But here is my question, why are there still caches out there with several DNF's and not being found for more than a year and still posted? To be clear on some of these I have not contacted the owner in some but others have the same owner who I can see is an current person who finds caches so it makes me wonder why they don't just post a note so we know whether we are blind or it may have been muggled. You don't have to send e-mails to everyone - (at least I don't thinke) just post a note and let us know you give a care of the over 100 caches you have hidden in a series.

 

Why are they there? Because they are hard to find, and don't get a lot of people looking for them?

 

There are also some that are very hard to find, but still *do* get a lot of people looking for them and posting DNF logs when they fail to find it. In some cases, a cache might have dozens of DNFs between finds. As long as the CO periodically checks on it to make sure it's still available, there is nothing wrong with a cache with a lot of DNF logs.

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