if you find a geocoin can you keep it for yourself?

[+orangejuicenice]

if you find a geocoin can you keep it for yourself?

[Pup Patrol]

if you find a geocoin can you keep it for yourself?

 

Generally speaking.....NO.

 

Since it belongs to someone else, why would you think that you can keep it?

 

I've got to ask at this point...how old are you? Do your parents go caching with you?

 

 

B.

[+orangejuicenice]

if you find a geocoin can you keep it for yourself?

 

Generally speaking.....NO.

 

Since it belongs to someone else, why would you think that you can keep it?

 

I've got to ask at this point...how old are you? Do your parents go caching with you?

 

 

B.

 

im not telling you my age i don't know you. and because iv been told people have done this....

[+orangejuicenice]

if you find a geocoin can you keep it for yourself?

 

Generally speaking.....NO.

 

Since it belongs to someone else, why would you think that you can keep it?

 

I've got to ask at this point...how old are you? Do your parents go caching with you?

 

 

B.

 

this is what i thought

 

im not telling you my age i don't know you. and because iv been told people have done this....

[+Droo]

You might want to read up on travelers: geocoins and travel bugs.

They belong to someone and are meant to be moved from cache to cache. If you want a coin for yourself you need to buy one, that way you can activate it and release it and receive an email everytime it gets moved with a copy of the log note the cacher posted when they logged it into the tracking system.

Travelers are the only type of content in a cache you cannot trade for, only move along. Anything else you can trade for - equally, that is with something of equal value or greater.

[+Droo]

 

.... iv been told people have done this....

 

We call those people coin thieves.

[+orangejuicenice]

 

.... iv been told people have done this....

 

We call those people coin thieves.

 

yes i had thought this was an act of stealing but i was not shure because like i said people have done this

[+Bear and Ragged]

Sometimes 'some' cache owners will leave a new Geocoin in a new cache as a First to Find prize.

If it's a prize, you can keep it.

[+keewee]

Hi there,

 

You really, really need to sit down and have a good read about geocaching and trackables to make sure you are following the rules and guidelines and to get a proper understanding of it all.

 

Good luck.

[+Droo]

Sometimes 'some' cache owners will leave a new Geocoin in a new cache as a First to Find prize.

If it's a prize, you can keep it.

While finding unactivated coins in a cache is a wonderful surprise it is not something to be expected as it is very rare indeed. Most noobs already are confused about the do's and don'ts already and shouldn't have to be confused further with the very rare exceptions to the rules too, IMHO.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Droo

[FISUR]

Not all geocoins are trackable.

The ones we leave usually are not trackable. So feel free to keep our nontrackable geocoins.

There are no numbers on them. Keep them if you want.

Hopefully this helps and doesn't add to any confusion.

Team FISUR

[+keewee]

Not all geocoins are trackable.

The ones we leave usually are not trackable. So feel free to keep our nontrackable geocoins.

There are no numbers on them. Keep them if you want.

Hopefully this helps and doesn't add to any confusion.

Team FISUR

 

Do you leave a note with them to explain this? I hope you do as otherwise it just adds to the confusion as - especially newer geocachers, have no idea - most don't do the research into geocaching and trackables - they just rush on in to it.

 

Back when I started geocaching, I spent hours and hours reading up in the Help and FAQ sections of this website, and reading the forums, so as to learn the correct way of dealing with things, the etiquette expected with geocaching and geocoins. Too many people don't seem to bother with this anymore. They are too impatient to get other there and get going - especially the younger ones! (as seems to be the general rule for their lives now)

Edited June 10, 2012 by keewee

[+keewee]

Sometimes 'some' cache owners will leave a new Geocoin in a new cache as a First to Find prize.

If it's a prize, you can keep it.

While finding unactivated coins in a cache is a wonderful surprise it is not something to be expected as it is very rare indeed. Most noobs already are confused about the do's and don'ts already and shouldn't have to be confused further with the very rare exceptions to the rules too, IMHO.

 

+1!!!!

 

I could not agree more. Anything that is not a standard, activated trackable that has been placed to travel should have a note with it to explain what should be done with it. (Just as a trackable in the game should have to explain its mission)

 

How many new threads have appeared over the last few years to say "I found a trackable, took it home and found it wasn't activated - what do I do now??"

 

If only the people placing these items put a little thought into it and put a note to say

"FTF - this geocoin is yours to keep as the FTF on this cache. You need not place anything in return." or

"This geocoin is yours to keep. It is not swag and does not need to be traded for." or

"This geocoin is unactivated and is swag - trade fair, trade up or leave it."

 

If people just left the appropriate note then there would be no confusion. Period!

Edited June 10, 2012 by keewee

[+Droo]

Not all geocoins are trackable.

The ones we leave usually are not trackable. So feel free to keep our nontrackable geocoins.

There are no numbers on them. Keep them if you want.

Hopefully this helps and doesn't add to any confusion.

Team FISUR

Indeed.... not all geocoins are trackable. What to do with a non trackable always raises questions and leads to many threads here. Conventional wisdom has always regarded these coins as swag and thus to be traded for fairly. However many who make and drop these sigitems to so as gifts and don't care for the trading convention of THEIR coin making them part of the exception to the rules.

 

IMO, to keep things simple it would be most helpful if the generous souls who want to leave gifts that they also print little cards to go with said gifts explaining to noob and veteran alike what they have found. My first find of an unactivated coin came with a Pay it forward card and it impressed me so much I went and printed 10 others which I left with gifts of my own. On the other hand having to work at finding out what it is takes the joy out of it and the magic too..... again IMO.

[+kunarion]

i had thought this was an act of stealing but i was not shure because like i said people have done this

With so many coins having "Don't keep me" on them, how could it be more clear?

 

Are they making a log such as "I took the coin and will keep it in my own collection"? Because if it's a secret (if the person who kept it didn't manage to log that fact), you already know if the practice is OK or not.

Edited June 11, 2012 by kunarion

[+dprovan]

Well, I'm glad this has come up, since it's puzzled me forever. I certainly have never had any interest or inclination to keep a trackable I found, but what the heck is this "Make this Trackable collectible" option on the trackable page, and the fact that most TBs are marked "The owner hasn't set their collectible preference"? That sure makes it sound like TBs are geared for people keep them! I've never understood why anyone would want their TBs to be kept in someone else's collection even though the default is "no preference".

[+The Blorenges]

Well, I'm glad this has come up, since it's puzzled me forever. I certainly have never had any interest or inclination to keep a trackable I found, but what the heck is this "Make this Trackable collectible" option on the trackable page, and the fact that most TBs are marked "The owner hasn't set their collectible preference"? That sure makes it sound like TBs are geared for people keep them! I've never understood why anyone would want their TBs to be kept in someone else's collection even though the default is "no preference".

 

I agree with you that it's not very clear and the explanation written in the Help Center is not very well worded (IMHO).

 

Many cachers have trackable items which they keep with them at all times (this mainly applies to geocoin collections) and they are never going to be released "in the wild". As it was, these items all appeared in their inventories of trackable items "in their hands". The feature of Make Collectibles/Add to your Collection was brought in a couple of years ago to provide a method to get those items moved into a separate place (the owner's private Collection) leaving only the other trackables (the ones that were travelling) in their inventory.

 

When you activate a new trackable to your account you now have the choice:

 

If you select the option 'Not Collectible' it appears in your inventory and you can then drop it off into a cache to start travelling. Other cachers who find it can retrieve it and move it along to another cache.

 

If you want to keep it in your Collection, you select 'Collectible'. Once you do this you then have an option in a drop-down box to 'Move to Collection'. Doing so removes the item from your inventory box and puts it into your Collection. Once an item is in your Collection you can't move it in/out of caches, but other cachers who see it in your hands, or at events, can note its tracking number and they have only the options to log it as 'Discovered' or 'Write Note'.

 

Yes, you'll see some trackables marked, "The owner hasn't set their collectible preference". These are mostly items that were activated before the Collection feature was created and the owners either haven't bothered to update their existing trackables or, very likely, they don't understand what the new feature is all about!

 

MrsB

[+kunarion]

Well, I'm glad this has come up, since it's puzzled me forever. I certainly have never had any interest or inclination to keep a trackable I found, but what the heck is this "Make this Trackable collectible" option on the trackable page, and the fact that most TBs are marked "The owner hasn't set their collectible preference"? That sure makes it sound like TBs are geared for people keep them! I've never understood why anyone would want their TBs to be kept in someone else's collection even though the default is "no preference".

Think of how an artifact is placed in the collection in a museum -- the museum has permission to display the item, and the owner still retains the rights to the item. The owner can get it returned on request, and always knows where the item is. I may allow someone to hold my Geocoin to complete a set. There's a huge difference between having an item in someone's collection and stealing it.

 

If it's in a Collection, it's listed there, it's there with the knowledge and blessing of the TO, and the TO can get it back. But if it's been stolen, it's out of the game -- it has not merely been listed in another Inventory. There's never a situation where a menu selection grants permission to steal any item, ever. Trackables are sent out for tracking, so when they're stolen and NOT tracked, that's NOT part of the game. I hope this clears up the confusion.

 

Again, if people are "confused" about whether or not they can keep any Geocaching Game Piece, first they must ask the owner to be sure, and leave a proper log online. At no time should the Trackable Owner need to guess what happened to his coin. When people keep the coin, and keep it a secret, it sure looks like they know full well they stole it.

Edited June 11, 2012 by kunarion

[+dprovan]

I agree with you that it's not very clear and the explanation written in the Help Center is not very well worded (IMHO).

Wow. Thanks. Unclear doesn't begin to cover it. I never even considered looking for an explanation because the term "collectible" seems so clear and obvious, I never dreamed it had this implicit "...but only if you have explicit permission from the owner" clause tacked on in big red letters that you and kunarion are saying is implied.

 

Many cachers have trackable items which they keep with them at all times (this mainly applies to geocoin collections) and they are never going to be released "in the wild". As it was, these items all appeared in their inventories of trackable items "in their hands". The feature of Make Collectibles/Add to your Collection was brought in a couple of years ago to provide a method to get those items moved into a separate place (the owner's private Collection) leaving only the other trackables (the ones that were travelling) in their inventory.

Yeah, OK. I don't understand why there's a switch to control whether that can be done, though. And I don't understand why the setting of that switch is displayed prominently to anyone looking at the trackable description. From what you're saying, it's only important to the owner and someone the owner has explicitly given permission to collect.

 

Yes, you'll see some trackables marked, "The owner hasn't set their collectible preference". These are mostly items that were activated before the Collection feature was created and the owners either haven't bothered to update their existing trackables or, very likely, they don't understand what the new feature is all about!

Almost all TBs of any age are marked this way. I don't think most owners even notice there's a selection to be made. In fact, the only reason I noticed was I kept seeing that "no preference" in other TBs, so I looked carefully at the TB edit screen to see how it was controlled.

 

I understand the collectable feature fine. I'm aware that people have TB collections even though I've never been interested myself. What I still don't really understand is the feature that controls whether a TB is or isn't collectable. It seems at least redundant, since permission to collect is still required in addition no matter what the setting is. Yet having the configurable characteristic inappropriately suggests that when it's turned on or even unchosen, collecting is OK.

[+dprovan]

Think of how an artifact is placed in the collection in a museum -- the museum has permission to display the item, and the owner still retains the rights to the item. The owner can get it returned on request, and always knows where the item is. I may allow someone to hold my Geocoin to complete a set. There's a huge difference between having an item in someone's collection and stealing it.

OK, so not that I'm contesting the basic idea, but do you see how this can be confusing? Someone gets a TB out of a cache. That's not stealing. The TB is marked "collectable" or the neutral not selected, which can be read as "I don't care whether it's collected." Can you see how someone could keep it and consider their actions perfectly honest? They might not be aware of the possibility of "moving to their collection", in which case they wouldn't know they're supposed to leave a proper log online.

 

If it's in a Collection, it's listed there, it's there with the knowledge and blessing of the TO, and the TO can get it back. But if it's been stolen, it's out of the game -- it has not merely been listed in another Inventory.

As an official, knowledgeable collector, you see a difference. To someone saying, "Wow, neat coin," there's no difference because the owner has said they don't care if it's collected.

 

There's never a situation where a menu selection grants permission to steal any item, ever. Trackables are sent out for tracking, so when they're stolen and NOT tracked, that's NOT part of the game. I hope this clears up the confusion.

So certainly that's the way I've always thought of it, so I've always ignored the "collectable" feature other than a curiosity that I want to have configured correctly on my travelers. But what I'm pointing out is that this collectable feature seems to give people a button that tells them they aren't stealing, they're collecting.

 

(I don't actually remember what it takes to move someone else's traveler to my inventory. Forgive my ignorance if it's more than just a logging selection.)

 

Again, if people are "confused" about whether or not they can keep any Geocaching Game Piece, first they must ask the owner to be sure, and leave a proper log online. At no time should the Trackable Owner need to guess what happened to his coin. When people keep the coin, and keep it a secret, it sure looks like they know full well they stole it.

To recap, from what I can see, the presentation of this "is/isn't/don't care collectable" flag seems to confuse -- if not contradict -- your clear and reasonable statements.

 

Anyway, thanks for clarifying. Now I know that it really is that flag that's wrong. I have to admit, I've been assuming I just didn't really understand the rules of collection and that some people would have common reason for giving any schmoe that happen to see their TB in the wild permission to keep it. Seemed odd to me, and now I know that's because it's wrong.

[+The Blorenges]

"What does this Collectible/Not Collectible thing mean?" has been a fairly regular question on this Geocoin forum, and over on the Travel Bug forum, since the feature was introduced... so it's not just you. When we attend events I've had geocachers ask me about it (probably because we've been playing this game for a while and I usually have a few geocoins or trackables with me).

 

There are two 'radio buttons' on the trackable activation page where the owner makes their choice. I'd like them to be worded (something like)

 

o Travelling trackable. To be moved from cache to cache.

 

o In Owner's Collection. Not travelling - For discovery only.

 

Selecting the second option would immediately transfer the item out of the inventory and into the Owner's Collection, with no need for that second step being necessary from the drop-down box.

 

MrsB

[+kunarion]

I'd like them to be worded (something like)

 

o Travelling trackable. To be moved from cache to cache.

 

o In Owner's Collection. Not travelling - For discovery only.

Yes, that would help greatly to clarify what "collect" means to the casual cacher.

 

But when TPTB ever change it, I fear it will probably be changed to something like:

o It's so shiny and cool, it's now in shoebox under bed.

 

-- And the rest of us will scramble to explain "Maybe they mean it's the OWNER's shoebox under the OWNER's bed?...

Edited June 11, 2012 by kunarion

[+kunarion]

what I'm pointing out is that this collectable feature seems to give people a button that tells them they aren't stealing, they're collecting.

That option allows people to move a Trackable to their collection. In order to do that, it must be properly logged, then they use the menu to select "Move To Collection". If that's fine with the coin owner, that's fine, since that's how it's designed to work. If a "confused" cacher ever does that, the owner may request the coin go back into play at any time.

 

I sincerely doubt that there's any issue with people mistakenly moving a coin into their "Collection". Not to put too fine a point on it: the problem is thieves making up excuses.

 

Regardless of what terminology you see in a menu anywhere on the site:

NEVER keep someone else's Trackable. Place it into a Geocache soon, and log it properly, or leave it alone in the cache. If it comes with info allowing anyone to "keep it", an active Trackable may be adopted. If you wish to place it in your Collection, you will log it into your Collection. You will ALSO have clear communication with the TO about his intentions. There's NEVER an instance where a Trackable is to be taken in secret and not logged, regardless if it's "Collectible".

Edited June 11, 2012 by kunarion

[+keewee]

On the whole Collectible/Not Collectible issue...

 

Groundspeak were meant to have been dealing to this under the now defunction/dropped Feature/Fault logging and voting system, but I don't think it had enough votes to make it high enough up their list to deal with.

 

It is a sorry situation that they themselves created without enough thought going into it first, and they are dragging their feet doing anything about it!

[+kunarion]

On the whole Collectible/Not Collectible issue...

 

Groundspeak were meant to have been dealing to this under the now defunction/dropped Feature/Fault logging and voting system, but I don't think it had enough votes to make it high enough up their list to deal with.

 

It is a sorry situation that they themselves created without enough thought going into it first, and they are dragging their feet doing anything about it!

 

Some topics around here were questions about Trackables that a person was hanging onto, due to "Trackable preference not being selected yet" -- just in case they can keep it.

 

There was a corporate decision to use the term "Collectible" in a way that less-than-honest people can somehow interpret to mean "it's a free gift to whoever pockets it first". We can guess why a company that sells these things would have policies that cause the need to buy more . But when people visit a Trackable page and supposedly see it's "Collectible", they also see a Mission that definitely does not say to keep the coin.

Edited June 11, 2012 by kunarion

[+Droo]

 

Yeah, OK. I don't understand why there's a switch to control whether that can be done, though. And I don't understand why the setting of that switch is displayed prominently to anyone looking at the trackable description. From what you're saying, it's only important to the owner and someone the owner has explicitly given permission to collect.

 

Boy, it is tough to write guidelines and explanations for all the nuances that go into geocaching. This one on the Collectible check box is especially vexing. As Mrs.B. already said the topic has gone around and around the forums for years already. Dprovan you are absolutely correct in pointing out that this does create an environment for more misunderstanding than there ever was before.

 

The reason for the misunderstanding is in the backstory. Prior to the collectible check box there was no question what a collection was and how it was cultivated. Collectors were a breed of cachers that not only bought and released many travelers but also designed and minted coins to trade and swap and sell with other collectors. But when coins started disappearing from caches many coin owners were reluctant to release them but still liked to activate them and show them at events to be discovered by others. The problem came when these "owned" non traveling coins got mixed with the "not owned" travelers thaey had grabbed to move to other caches. People's inventories were a mess. There was no easy way to sort the inventory list in such a way to separate the "owned" from the travelers so many of us created and archived caches to keep our "collections" separate from the inventory.

 

Using archived caches was too messy for GS. So they created a way for people to have online repositories for their collections of activated nontravelers. Brilliant - a separate virtual container to keep all the activated coins that were meant for discovery but not to travel. And the travelers that were being moved were easily found in the inventory list when a drop was called for. A great solution.

 

The problem came with a particular exception.... the moun10bike coin(s). It was the first trackable coin, highly desired by collectors but could only be had by finding one in a cache or trading for one. They were never sold. All were activated and owned by moun10bike but were allowed to be kept by those who found one. So the very first coin was collectible but could only be owned by the originator. Hence the collectible checkbox. If you have issued a coin and want to own them all but release them as gifts you would check the box to let people know they can be kept..... AND they can be placed in the virtual collections separate from the inventory of travelers.

 

Moun10bike coins aren't the only ones that can be collectible but not owned except by the originator.... last I heard there were about half a dozen different ones but don't quote me on that. And to accommodate this exception to the rule of moving travelers along and not keep them this check box now raises more questions for the newer cachers about collections and how to build them up and sell them on Ebay or trade them on the forums without actually having to buy anything. Ironically moun10bike coins don't have their collectible preference set so the checkbox is not even used by the most iconic of collectible geocoins.

 

Armed with the backstories how would you write the guidelines to something that should be a simplification of an older and very messy system for separating activated traveler from non travelers? And keep it short.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Droo

[+JoenGPS]

Not all geocoins are trackable.

The ones we leave usually are not trackable. So feel free to keep our nontrackable geocoins.

There are no numbers on them. Keep them if you want.

Hopefully this helps and doesn't add to any confusion.

Team FISUR

 

Do you leave a note with them to explain this?

 

 

Not to go off topic but this brought on a chuckle. When Team Fisure started dropping coins, there were only about a half dozen coins....everyone knew what to do then..

Edited June 11, 2012 by JoenSue

[+Tennessee Jed]

To change the direction of this topic, since most caches contain only trade items maybe all activated geocoins should have a little printed card stating they are not a trade item.

[+keewee]

To change the direction of this topic, since most caches contain only trade items maybe all activated geocoins should have a little printed card stating they are not a trade item.

 

I like that idea too! It (hopefully) stops coins backtracking on missions, or being removed from mission areas! Several times I've had coins (WITH MISSION CARDS ATTACHED!) moved on to a different country to what their missions were - so it won't always work, but it certainly helps.

[+dprovan]

Armed with the backstories how would you write the guidelines to something that should be a simplification of an older and very messy system for separating activated traveler from non travelers? And keep it short.

I think you've laid out the problem perfectly: the problem here isn't clarity, it's that there is no one meaning.

 

You're telling me here the check mark is for what I originally thought (even though it was hard to believe): setting a traveler to collectable is explicit permission for anyone that finds it to put it in their collection. This is, of course, almost exactly the opposite of what I've been told earlier in this thread, where two different people told me, no, no, I still had to get permission from the owner before I could put a traveler marked collectable into my collection. I was even told quite specifically that to put it into my collection without permission was stealing.

 

I'm not interested in collecting, so fortunately I don't have to worry about who's right. I could write the guidelines for you, so long as you're OK with something that starts, "The term 'Collectable' means different things to different people..."

[+kunarion]

You're telling me here the check mark is for what I originally thought (even though it was hard to believe): setting a traveler to collectable is explicit permission for anyone that finds it to put it in their collection. This is, of course, almost exactly the opposite of what I've been told earlier in this thread, where two different people told me, no, no, I still had to get permission from the owner before I could put a traveler marked collectable into my collection. I was even told quite specifically that to put it into my collection without permission was stealing.

 

There's a huge problem with Geocoins disappearing from caches, due to people removing the coin from the cache and keeping it. No logs, they don't admit to pocketing the coin, they stole it. That's an accurate term, "stealing", when it applies, use it. Those people justify stealing in many ways. One way is by the wording on the web site. They see the word “Collectible”, and use that to justify stealing the coin, keeping it, even selling it. Part of the issue is the use of the word “Collectible”.

 

Some Owners set that switch on their coins, “Collectible”, thinking it's kind of like a Facebook “Like”, so it means “My coin is pretty cool”. *Click*. It's “Collectible”. Then the same person arrives in this forum, saying “a Geocacher took my coin and now refuses to place it in a cache, because he thinks it's a gift to him”. The person that took that coin stole it (“hey, it's selected to be a “free gift to me”, right?). So it's not logged into a “Collection”, it's in the guy's pocket and removed from play, can't be tracked anymore, it's lost. That's NOT the way “Collectible” is intended to work.

 

That owner made a mistake. He should be allowed a do-over, and the person who picked up the coin should place it into a cache, not insist "Hey, I 'collected it', therefore it's mine!". When "Collectible" means different things to different people, the owner's intentions should take precedent -- when the owner contacts the current coin holder, that person should release it when asked.

 

The way it's supposed to work is this:

-- Select “This is Collectible” for a Trackable that can be collected (usually in very limited circumstances for coins in the wild).

-- When a person retrieves the coin, they log it, then move it to their Collection. It remains owned by the original coin owner. It is properly logged in the cyberspace database called a “Collection” and everyone knows where the coin is.

The owner at any time may ask you to place the coin into a cache, and you should abide his wishes. The coin may be selected “Not Collectible” at any time, and you place it back into a cache. At no time will you be justified in keeping the coin against the owner's wishes due to you having it “in a collection”. It's an active Geocaching Game Piece, and it belongs in the game.

 

AND

-- If it was in fact a “free gift” -- if you're allowed to keep it or sell it -- the coin would have been adopted to you. That's different from it being owned by someone else yet in your Collection. As long as it's owned by NOT you, the owner's wishes should be followed for that coin, regardless of a menu setting.

Edited June 12, 2012 by kunarion

[+The Blorenges]

I think there are very few trackables marked Collectible which are put into caches with the intention that another cacher should find them and put them into their own collection (even if they're still owned by the owner).

 

I think the trackables marked 'Collectible' that turn up in caches mostly get there accidentally

 

e.g. An owner drops off one of their Collection coins into a cache by accident, or a new cacher sets up their first trackable and thinks to themself, "Now, what do I want this to do? Well... I want to put it into a cache so that it can be picked up by another cacher... That must mean that they collect my trackable from the cache... I'd better mark it as 'Collectible' then..."

 

I don't see why anyone would want to have one of their own 'Collectible items' taken by another cacher and placed into that other cacher's collection. If you wanted to share the luv of trackables surely you'd just put unactivated items (TBs or geocoins) out for random cachers to find and activate for themselves? Or else you would simply adopt an item over to another cacher, which is what I've done a couple of times for those who've completed a geocoin's mission for me.

 

MrsB

[+kunarion]

I think there are very few trackables marked Collectible which are put into caches with the intention that another cacher should find them and put them into their own collection (even if they're still owned by the owner).

 

I think the trackables marked 'Collectible' that turn up in caches mostly get there accidentally

 

e.g. An owner drops off one of their Collection coins into a cache by accident, or a new cacher sets up their first trackable and thinks to themself, "Now, what do I want this to do? Well... I want to put it into a cache so that it can be picked up by another cacher... That must mean that they collect my trackable from the cache... I'd better mark it as 'Collectible' then..."

 

I don't see why anyone would want to have one of their own 'Collectible items' taken by another cacher and placed into that other cacher's collection. If you wanted to share the luv of trackables surely you'd just put unactivated items (TBs or geocoins) out for random cachers to find and activate for themselves? Or else you would simply adopt an item over to another cacher, which is what I've done a couple of times for those who've completed a geocoin's mission for me.

 

MrsB

+1

[+dprovan]

There's a huge problem with Geocoins disappearing from caches, due to people removing the coin from the cache and keeping it. No logs, they don't admit to pocketing the coin, they stole it. That's an accurate term, “"stealing", when it applies, use it.

Yeah, I understand that. I have no idea how we can identify such an event as opposed to one of the hundred other ways trackables disappear, but for the purposes of discussion, let's take the example of someone that's intentionally stealing a coin that know they shouldn't take. As far as I can see, this has nothing whatsoever to do with "collectible" except...

 

Those people justify stealing in many ways. One way is by the wording on the web site. They see the word “Collectible”, and use that to justify stealing the coin, keeping it, even selling it.

From what Droo just told me, "Collectible" allows them to take and keep the coin legitimately. It's not just a lame excuse, it specifically makes the action not stealing.

 

(I know nothing about it, but "selling" in this context must mean giving money to the non-owner to allow the buyer to move the coin to his own collection. I don't see any problem with that, either, according to the rules: if the buyer's willing to pay for having the coin in his collection, why shouldn't that be allowed? Presumably he understands that the "purchase" doesn't give him ownership of the coin, just possession.)

 

Part of the issue is the use of the word “Collectible”.

 

Some Owners set that switch on their coins, “Collectible”, thinking it's kind of like a Facebook “Like”, so it means “My coin is pretty cool”. *Click*. It's “Collectible”. Then the same person arrives in this forum, saying “a Geocacher took my coin and now refuses to place it in a cache, because he thinks it's a gift to him”. The person that took that coin stole it (“hey, it's selected to be a “free gift to me”, right?). So it's not logged into a “Collection”, it's in the guy's pocket and removed from play, can't be tracked anymore, it's lost. That's NOT the way “Collectible” is intended to work.

But Droo says that's exactly the way it was intended to work.

 

That owner made a mistake. He should be allowed a do-over, and the person who picked up the coin should place it into a cache, not insist "Hey, I 'collected it', therefore it's mine!". When "Collectible" means different things to different people, the owner's intentions should take precedent -- when the owner contacts the current coin holder, that person should release it when asked.

Well, certainly I agree with you that the owner should be in control, and that's the way I'd play the game. But, then, I don't see the value of having something in my collection. On the other hand, if I did think possession had value, and I paid another collector $50 to take a coin neither of us owned and put it in my collection, I might be pretty annoyed if the owner then demanded I release it. Is it any more than your opinion saying I'm required to comply? If so, the design should allow for the owner to mark a collected coin Not Collectible. Does it?

 

The way it's supposed to work is this:...

What I'm hearing is that this is how you think it should work, but it's by no means clear whether it's the way it's supposed to work. In fact, I'd claim that if what you describe is the way it's supposed to work, the design wouldn't involve a general characteristic that the owner must explicitly turn off by setting the coin "not collectible", but would, instead, involve granting individual rights to an individual to move a specific coin into their collection.

[+dprovan]

I think there are very few trackables marked Collectible which are put into caches with the intention that another cacher should find them and put them into their own collection (even if they're still owned by the owner).

I don't think I've ever seen a trackable that was marked "Collectible", so I would have no idea how they'd get into the wild or why. That's part of my point: it's such a rare and specific characteristic, it just adds to the confusion that every TB owner is supposed to consider it, and every one that reads a TB description is told the state.

 

Also, keep in mind that from what Droo just told me, the "not specified" state was specifically designed to make the default imply the coin was collectible so the moun10bike coins would be grandfathered into being collectible. Conceptually, that means that most coins are implicitly collectible. Good thing most people just ignore it.

[+The Blorenges]

 

... Also, keep in mind that from what Droo just told me, the "not specified" state was specifically designed to make the default imply the coin was collectible so the moun10bike coins would be grandfathered into being collectible. Conceptually, that means that most coins are implicitly collectible. Good thing most people just ignore it.

 

I may be wrong on this, but I thought that when the whole Collectible thing was set up somebody from Groundspeak said that on older trackables, where an option had not been specified, the system's default would be to treat that item as though it was "Not Collectible".

 

MrsB

[+dprovan]

[i may be wrong on this, but I thought that when the whole Collectible thing was set up somebody from Groundspeak said that on older trackables, where an option had not been specified, the system's default would be to treat that item as though it was "Not Collectible".

I certainly would have expected the default to be "Not Collectible", but we have two pieces of evidence to the contrary:

 

1. If that were the intention, then the default could have simply been made "Not Collectible". Instead, they went out of their way to create this neutral state "not specified" and make it the default against all reason. That suggests to me that someone wanted older travelers to be collectible without being obvious about it.

 

2. And this agrees with Droo's statement that the feature was designed to allow some old, coveted coins to be collectible unless the owners went out of their ways to prevent it.

[DougDawn]

Well, I'm just a newbie at this but it seems to me that if someone doesn't want people to keep their trackable, they should just use a travel bug / tag - who would want to keep those anyway?

[+kunarion]

Well, I'm just a newbie at this but it seems to me that if someone doesn't want people to keep their trackable, they should just use a travel bug / tag - who would want to keep those anyway?

That's a good idea. I do have a few traveling coins and they are still doing OK. One's a "Gold" pirate dubloon.

 

It's best if Trackables remain in play. Don't Keep Them, that's the policy. So cachers aren't pocketing a coin just in case they're allowed to keep it. Because you aren't. It would be extremely rare if a Geocoin were a gift to keep, and it would then be very clear on the packaging or somewhere obvious, so you never need to guess. When I see all the topics about "why are there no nice things in caches"... Geocoins are the nice things. Keep them in the game, in caches where they belong.

 

If you made a mistake, or if a friend has one, whatever, get it back into play. The TO is wondering if it will ever turn up, and will be thrilled to see it logged again.

Edited June 14, 2012 by kunarion

[Dark Lord Ganondorf]

Kid, DON'T keep geocoins (or travel bugs).

I agree with Droo. If you keep a Geocoin, Your a coin thieve.