Deleted logs

[+Baad Daata]

I have had a few of my logs deleted for one reason or another. Sometimes I was in error and sometimes the CO had made a mistake. On the 24th of May Hockabee and I went out of our way to get a webcam (GCA4C4) in Indiana. We went to this remarkable old library and went downstairs to the children's library. As we searched for the camera the librarian asked us if we were looking for the camera and we said we were. She pointed to it and said that there had been several other folks looking for it and that they were disappointed because it was not functioning properly. We called friends in Utah and asked them to snap our picture from the website. They brought up the site and only saw pumpkins on the bookshelves and we were no where in sight. We tried the webcam in the next room and had the same result. We finally took snapshots of each of us with the librarian and submitted those photos as evidence of our diligence. Our logs were deleted and efforts to resubmit have been deleted immediately. What is the purpose? We were there and attempted the documentation. We submitted photo-evidence of our presence and continue to be denied logging a treasured, infrequent and distant cache type. Any suggestions?

[+GeoBain]

Any suggestions?

 

Come back when the camera is functioning. Some CO's are militant when it comes to the "rules."

[+NanCycle]

I have had a few of my logs deleted for one reason or another. Sometimes I was in error and sometimes the CO had made a mistake. On the 24th of May Hockabee and I went out of our way to get a webcam (GCA4C4) in Indiana. We went to this remarkable old library and went downstairs to the children's library. As we searched for the camera the librarian asked us if we were looking for the camera and we said we were. She pointed to it and said that there had been several other folks looking for it and that they were disappointed because it was not functioning properly. We called friends in Utah and asked them to snap our picture from the website. They brought up the site and only saw pumpkins on the bookshelves and we were no where in sight. We tried the webcam in the next room and had the same result. We finally took snapshots of each of us with the librarian and submitted those photos as evidence of our diligence. Our logs were deleted and efforts to resubmit have been deleted immediately. What is the purpose? We were there and attempted the documentation. We submitted photo-evidence of our presence and continue to be denied logging a treasured, infrequent and distant cache type. Any suggestions?

 

I suggest that you log a DNF and a NM. This is a cache you did not find because it was out of order. It happens.

[+Ms.Scrabbler]

Have you asked the CO for suggestions?

[+fizzymagic]

It's up to the CO whether to accept non-standard logs. If it were me I would allow it, but this CO apparently feels differently.

 

If the camera is not functioning and the CO is not willing to accept logs without it, then I would probably log a Needs Archived.

[Pup Patrol]

If the camera is not functioning and the CO is not willing to accept logs without it, then I would probably log a Needs Archived.

 

This sounds like the way to go about it.

 

Why on earth would the CO not accept "alternative" photos if he/she knows darned well the webcam is not functioning? Even I'm not such a puritan to be that obstinate.

 

edited to retract my opinion, after the certain facts came to light.

 

Why are there webcams INSIDE the library? I find that kind of creepy.

 

 

B.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Pup Patrol

[+the4dirtydogs]

Any suggestions?

 

Come back when the camera is functioning. Some CO's are militant when it comes to the "rules."

This is what i was going to suggest. It's kinda like throwing down a cache and logging it. Some CO don't mind and some do. We did a webcam with a picture and the CO was fine with that since the camera was gone. I would log a NM.

[knowschad]

Any suggestions?

 

Come back when the camera is functioning. Some CO's are militant when it comes to the "rules."

 

From Utah (where I believe the OP is from) to Indiana (where the library cache is located)?

 

Probably not going to happen.

 

This might be one to bring to Groundspeak. Sounds like you did what you could, and you provided proof that you were there. Your log should stand.

[+The Blorenges]

Also, (I think) the information in the Help Center about logging webcam caches was tightened up recently

 

"Webcam Cache Logging Guidelines: Webcam cache can only be logged with a photograph taken from the webcam associated with the cache page."

 

so perhaps the cache owner is being particularly diligent.

 

MrsB

[knowschad]

Why are there webcams INSIDE the library? I find that kind of creepy.

 

From the cache page:

 

This library has a haunting history. You can read about it on their website.

Inside this library there are several webcams. These webcams are used to help spot paranormal activity.

Creepy was a good word for it!

[+Ms.Scrabbler]

Why are there webcams INSIDE the library? I find that kind of creepy.

 

From the cache page:

 

This library has a haunting history. You can read about it on their website.

Inside this library there are several webcams. These webcams are used to help spot paranormal activity.

Creepy was a good word for it!

pumpkins are paranormal?

[+The A-Team]

Also, (I think) the information in the Help Center about logging webcam caches was tightened up recently

 

"Webcam Cache Logging Guidelines: Webcam cache can only be logged with a photograph taken from the webcam associated with the cache page."

 

so perhaps the cache owner is being particularly diligent.

 

MrsB

...and they certainly have every right to. The above guideline is crystal clear about what is required to log a webcam cache. The fact that the webcam was down when you were there is just plain bad luck. It's no different than a container being missing from a physical cache site at the time you visit. Log a DNF and move on. It sucks, yes, but that's how the cookie crumbles.

As for the suggestions to log a NA, I don't see that as being necessary. When I checked just now, of the 6 total webcams contained within the links on the cache listing, 4 are functioning just fine, so this webcam cache is still perfectly doable.

 

As for the paranormal activity, check out one of the webcams from this cache here. If you stare at the top-left one for long enough, you might make out a ghostly figure or something.

[+lamoracke]

as long as the CO is consistent with his policy, I agree a webcam should only have true logs. I admit I have done a few out of my 34 where I used a picture taken by me, but that was only because of either the CO allowing them or the fact they had been done prior for an extended period of time. I did one not too long ago where the CO had been allowing it for like a 1 1/2 years.

 

so, as long as the CO is clear that any non webcam logs will be deleted and is consistent with that, I think its very reasonable to assume you should only log it with a true camera find.

 

webcams can be enabled if disabled right or wrong? I cant remember. I know they can't be unarchived or transfer, but I can't recall if they can be disabled and enabled or not.

[+zack_black]

<snip> Any suggestions?

 

Some CO's are power tripn' jerks

[+The A-Team]

webcams can be enabled if disabled right or wrong? I cant remember. I know they can't be unarchived or transfer, but I can't recall if they can be disabled and enabled or not.

I don't see why not. A webcam being down temporarily shouldn't be grounds for archival.

[jholly]

<snip> Any suggestions?

 

Some CO's are power tripn' jerks

That comment was uncalled for. With the tighten guideline requirements he might well be protecting his webcam from being archived by leaving "bogus" logs stand. If a reviewer or lackey gets wind of that the webcam does not work and folks are posting pictures instead the webcam might well join the ranks of the ghosts.

Edited June 7, 2012 by jholly

[+hzoi]

After taking a look at the cache page, I think the cache owner deserves a little slack. I have found webcam caches to be anything but reliable. Here, the cache owner has allowed cachers to log this webcam cache as "found" from not one, not two, but SIX webcams scattered throughout the library.

 

Checking each webcam, I see that two clearly aren't functioning -- one displays no image, another is just colorful digital noise. The one with the pumpkins makes me think the cam in the children's library is stuck on an image it loaded around Halloween sometime. But there appears to be a second cam in the children's library, a camera in the basement hal;lway, and a camera on an ornate wooden staircase, all of which appear to be functioning.

 

Webcams are a dying breed. We can't publish any new ones, and the ones that do still exist are mostly based on 6-year-old technology at best (unless the existing cams were upgraded), so they have been dwindling in number since they were grandfathered. Groundspeak tightened the guidelines to keep people from gaming the system, and this webcam cache owner is toeing the line. The description is pretty straightforward about their stance on substitute photos:

 

You must use the webcams for your picture. No personal camera pictures are allowed.

 

I'm with the cache owner on this one. Sorry.

[+GeoBain]

Any suggestions?

 

Come back when the camera is functioning. Some CO's are militant when it comes to the "rules."

 

From Utah (where I believe the OP is from) to Indiana (where the library cache is located)?

 

Probably not going to happen.

 

This might be one to bring to Groundspeak. Sounds like you did what you could, and you provided proof that you were there. Your log should stand.

 

groundspeek is not likely to uphold this. If they were to step in, it would open them up to mediating other caches in which someone could not perform the "required" steps such as, I don't know, signing the log? The CO does have the right to accept the photo as proof, but is under no requirement to do so. (Personally, if I owned the cache I would accept such proof and thank the finder for letting me know the camera is down.)

 

On the other hand, as someone else suggested, perhaps the OP should log Needs Archived since the cache can longer be logged since the camera is no longer working.

 

***Edited because someone posted updated guidelines which suggest that perhaps webcam owners actually can no longer accept alternate proof while a cam is down and it also appears that at least one other cam is operable.

Edited June 7, 2012 by GeoBain

[+hzoi]

p.s. There are computers in the library, so you could have easily logged on, checked the cache description, and worked with the person on the other end of the phone to find one of the other working cameras before you left the library. Just because you regret doing so doesn't mean you're justified in transferring your frustration to the cache owner.

 

You took a gamble and tried to take the easy way out and call the cache owner's bluff on "no personal camera pictures." Turns out they weren't kidding. Life's tough that way sometimes.

[+The Blorenges]

If a reviewer or lackey gets wind of that the webcam does not work and folks are posting pictures instead the webcam might well join the ranks of the ghosts.

 

Which is what happened to Avebury Inner Eye webcam about 18 months ago. (Archiving log)

 

... which was fair enough, tbh.

 

I'll put my hand up and admit that we had logged it with a camera pic a few years earlier. (Not an ideal log, admittedly!)

 

MrsB

[+hzoi]

p.p.s. Holy carp, I just checked your profile. You've been at this for SEVEN YEARS and have over 32,000 finds. You know how the game is played, and yet this isn't even the first webcam you've logged where you didn't get a picture. You did it here, and you did it here, and you did it here (though you're not the only one on that one by a long shot), and you did it here.

 

So, of your six webcam "finds," you've actually correctly logged two. My sympathy for your plight has not only dried up, it has blown away and been carried by the wind into the next county.

[+The A-Team]

If a reviewer or lackey gets wind of that the webcam does not work and folks are posting pictures instead the webcam might well join the ranks of the ghosts.

 

Which is what happened to Avebury Inner Eye webcam about 18 months ago. (Archiving log)

 

... which was fair enough, tbh.

And there was the Vegas one that was archived back in January because the cam had been down for almost a year and a half.

[+The A-Team]

p.p.s. Holy carp, I just checked your profile. You've been at this for SEVEN YEARS and have over 32,000 finds. You know how the game is played, and yet this isn't even the first webcam you've logged where you didn't get a picture. You did it here, and you did it here, and you did it here (though you're not the only one on that one by a long shot), and you did it here.

 

So, of your six webcam "finds," you've actually correctly logged two. My sympathy for your plight has not only dried up, it has blown away and been carried by the wind into the next county.

Out of sheer curiousity, I scanned through the first page of their virtual finds. Of the 6 or 7 virtuals that required a photo, only one of their logs had the required photo (and just barely, at that). It kind of makes you wonder how many of those 32000+ finds are valid and/or throwdowns.

 

Sympathy = 0

[+hzoi]

p.p.s. Holy carp, I just checked your profile. You've been at this for SEVEN YEARS and have over 32,000 finds. You know how the game is played, and yet this isn't even the first webcam you've logged where you didn't get a picture. You did it here, and you did it here, and you did it here (though you're not the only one on that one by a long shot), and you did it here.

 

So, of your six webcam "finds," you've actually correctly logged two. My sympathy for your plight has not only dried up, it has blown away and been carried by the wind into the next county.

Out of sheer curiousity, I scanned through the first page of their virtual finds. Of the 6 or 7 virtuals that required a photo, only one of their logs had the required photo (and just barely, at that). It kind of makes you wonder how many of those 32000+ finds are valid and/or throwdowns.

 

Sympathy = 0

 

Funny, I was thinking the same thing.

[jholly]

Some folks just aren't familiar with the neighborhood, are they?

[4wheelin_fool]

The webcam cache has a treasured unique icon. How dare you take it in vain with a mere photograph. I suggest you voluntarily delete 1000 of your finds, and procure a meaningless existence at Waymarking as penance.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Also, (I think) the information in the Help Center about logging webcam caches was tightened up recently

 

"Webcam Cache Logging Guidelines: Webcam cache can only be logged with a photograph taken from the webcam associated with the cache page."

 

so perhaps the cache owner is being particularly diligent.

 

MrsB

 

Yes. That is the requirement for logging a webcam cache. The log is "Webcam Photo Taken". Not "I was there, but my phone didn't work." Or "I was there but the camera wasn't working." You don't know what Webcam owners go through. "I was there, but the Internet was down for the entire state." TBSS. You take your chances.

[knowschad]

<snip> Any suggestions?

 

Some CO's are power tripn' jerks

That comment was uncalled for. With the tighten guideline requirements he might well be protecting his webcam from being archived by leaving "bogus" logs stand. If a reviewer or lackey gets wind of that the webcam does not work and folks are posting pictures instead the webcam might well join the ranks of the ghosts.

Good point. One that I hadn't thought of. Thanks!

[+Sol seaker]

Also, (I think) the information in the Help Center about logging webcam caches was tightened up recently

 

"Webcam Cache Logging Guidelines: Webcam cache can only be logged with a photograph taken from the webcam associated with the cache page."

 

so perhaps the cache owner is being particularly diligent.

 

MrsB

...and they certainly have every right to. The above guideline is crystal clear about what is required to log a webcam cache. The fact that the webcam was down when you were there is just plain bad luck. It's no different than a container being missing from a physical cache site at the time you visit. Log a DNF and move on. It sucks, yes, but that's how the cookie crumbles.

As for the suggestions to log a NA, I don't see that as being necessary. When I checked just now, of the 6 total webcams contained within the links on the cache listing, 4 are functioning just fine, so this webcam cache is still perfectly doable.

 

As for the paranormal activity, check out one of the webcams from this cache here. If you stare at the top-left one for long enough, you might make out a ghostly figure or something.

 

I think the ghost has taken offense to the webcams and disabled some of them. There are still more to be had however, and the thread-owner should have logged with one of those.

 

I didn't know about the change in webcam rules, so at this point it does seem the cache owner was in the right to not allow your log. I wouldn't allow any log on my caches that would mean they would be archived because of it either.

[+JesandTodd]

p.s. There are computers in the library, so you could have easily logged on, checked the cache description, and worked with the person on the other end of the phone to find one of the other working cameras before you left the library. Just because you regret doing so doesn't mean you're justified in transferring your frustration to the cache owner.

 

You took a gamble and tried to take the easy way out and call the cache owner's bluff on "no personal camera pictures." Turns out they weren't kidding. Life's tough that way sometimes.

 

Yup. I honestly cannot believe that someone with 32k finds does not know how to properly log a webcam.

Or a virtual.

Or a....

[+wimseyguy]

Post a Needs Archived. That will show that CO to mess with you.

[Pup Patrol]

p.p.s. Holy carp, I just checked your profile. You've been at this for SEVEN YEARS and have over 32,000 finds. You know how the game is played, and yet this isn't even the first webcam you've logged where you didn't get a picture. You did it here, and you did it here, and you did it here (though you're not the only one on that one by a long shot), and you did it here.

 

So, of your six webcam "finds," you've actually correctly logged two. My sympathy for your plight has not only dried up, it has blown away and been carried by the wind into the next county.

Out of sheer curiousity, I scanned through the first page of their virtual finds. Of the 6 or 7 virtuals that required a photo, only one of their logs had the required photo (and just barely, at that). It kind of makes you wonder how many of those 32000+ finds are valid and/or throwdowns.

 

Sympathy = 0

 

Yup.

 

 

B.

[+JesandTodd]

Post a Needs Archived. That will show that CO to mess with you.

 

Yeah! That'll show him for expecting players to actually read his cache page and follow the rules. How dare he!

[+MartyBartfast]

Post a Needs Archived. That will show that CO to mess with you.

 

Well BaadDaata did that, I just hope the NA is ignored. He didn't satisfy the requirements for logging the cache which are clearly set out on the cache page and in the GS guidelines, so he wants to archive an interesting and fun cache that's been around for almost 10 years because he's had a fit of pique like a spoilt child.

 

I'm with the CO on this one.

[+OZ2CPU]

when a cache is NOT WORKING you can offcourse NOT log it as found..

it must be fixed by you with CO permission, or by CO him self,

all you can do is a polite N.M. log and carry on.

if you see no response within resonable time then post a N.A. log.

 

a FAKE/wrong web cam picture, or not following the guidelines and the rules !!

it is like a throw-down !! a FAKE way to log a find, you did not find or solve it the way it was intended.

why not try to play by the rules, it is alot more fun that way.

[+C8W9]

when a cache is NOT WORKING you can offcourse NOT log it as found..

it must be fixed by you with CO permission, or by CO him self,

all you can do is a polite N.M. log and carry on.

if you see no response within resonable time then post a N.A. log.

 

a FAKE/wrong web cam picture, or not following the guidelines and the rules !!

it is like a throw-down !! a FAKE way to log a find, you did not find or solve it the way it was intended.

why not try to play by the rules, it is alot more fun that way.

 

It is not fake in the slightest. What does a webcam cache boil down to - taking a photo of you at the location. Be it using a webcam or a camera, the output is the same - a photo of you at the location.

 

Now, this cacher has taken the time, trouble, and expense to pay for gas to travel 30-40 miles to the cache location, only to discover that the webcam's don't work. A local cacher has posted on the page that this is not a one off (would have been better for the CO to do this on the description). The cacher didn't know this. The webcam requires a photo of you there, so what difference does it make if they used their camera as the webcam wasn't working?

 

I'd probably say delete the find if the webcam was working and the cacher couldn't be bothered, but that's not the case, and to me the cache owner sounds like a right jobsworth.

 

Since the webcam not working seems to be a regular issue, I'd use a needs archived.

[+OZ2CPU]

>only to discover that the webcam's don't work.

 

did he check it was working when he left home ?

did he have a helper or friend online to grap the picture from the webcam service as you normally need to do

to get the REAL webcam picture,

this is a good and funny and important part of the task too.

 

some caches (and webcam caches) need your attention, like PREPARE for it

before you go there, and when there do special tasks,

it is a PART of its fun..

if you CHANGE how a cache is intended to be "found" you cheat your self for a cool experiance

just to get your find count +1

BAD IDEA

 

caching is not just a thing to prove you was at a location,

but to prove you did FIND something and did something at a locaton.

Edited June 8, 2012 by OZ2CPU

[+Ike 13]

The guidelines clearly state that you must use the webcam to take a photo and I support any CO that deletes fake webcam logs. I've worked hard to get the few I have.

 

It was amazing to see how many people either don't know the guideline or don't give a darn and logged the webcam in Louisville over GWX. The office it's in is closed on weekends so it was no longer on my route but I saw plenty of people taking a photo of their group at the door.

 

If the webcam is down for a considerable amount of time (I'd say 3 months straight) then a NA may be needed, but that one still has working cams. Just check out the ghost sightings page In fact here is one from the day you visited at 5:50 PM: http://www.willardghost.com/ghostspottings/inspect.php?capture=271128&pic=20120524/WillardGhostCapture_20120524-03-50-21.jpg

[+OZ2CPU]

>I saw plenty of people taking a photo of their group at the door.

 

they only cheat them self !!

let them play their own game, they clearly dont play ours.

we fight a war we can not win alone.

Thumps up to all CO who delete logs of people clearly not playing right,

I like to see MUCH more of this..

[+DanOCan]

I'm normally pretty easy-going when it comes to these sorts of things but in this case I'm with the CO 100%.

The whole point of a webcam is to get a picture *from the webcam*.

 

Trying to use a photo you took of yourself at the location is the equivalent of logging a Find on a tree-climbing cache because you spotted the cache from the ground. Sorry, doesn't fly with me.

[+Q10]

Any suggestions?

 

Post a "Need Maintenance" on the cache page. If noting happens then post a "Needs Archive". The last if the camera it not intended to show a place, where you can stand - or the library don't want you to use the camera as an object in a game, that has nothing to do with the library.

[+JesandTodd]

It is not fake in the slightest. What does a webcam cache boil down to - taking a photo of you at the location. Be it using a webcam or a camera, the output is the same - a photo of you at the location.

 

Now, this cacher has taken the time, trouble, and expense to pay for gas to travel 30-40 miles to the cache location, only to discover that the webcam's don't work. A local cacher has posted on the page that this is not a one off (would have been better for the CO to do this on the description). The cacher didn't know this. The webcam requires a photo of you there, so what difference does it make if they used their camera as the webcam wasn't working?

 

I'd probably say delete the find if the webcam was working and the cacher couldn't be bothered, but that's not the case, and to me the cache owner sounds like a right jobsworth.

 

Since the webcam not working seems to be a regular issue, I'd use a needs archived.

 

There are 6 (six) webcams to choose from. The OP *clearly* mentions that one of them was working, because he mentioned the pumpkins.

 

This is a library.

 

Go to one of the many free computers, look this cache up, and figure it out.

 

I dont car how long this guy drove for this webcam. I've hiked up mountains only to dnf. That the game folks! And there are only so many rules, how hard is it to follow them??

 

This team has 32,000+ finds. Thirty-two THOUSAND. He really needs to be told to fire up a computer and look it up???

 

He got caught fake logging this find (and most of his webcam cache finds, btw). He tried to get away with playing the game his way, and got caught by one of the few conscientious COs .

 

Kudos to the webcam owner!!

[+Isonzo Karst]

If the webcam is down, log a DNF.

 

If you can't figure out to use the webcam that's available, log a DNF, or write a note, or don't log anything.

 

I suppose that if the webcam goes down, the cache owner verifies that, they *may* opt to let the first cacher to let them know that log a fake find with an image of their own, akin to the way some cache owner's will allow a fake find on a missing cache.

 

But the listing then needs to be DISABLED while the cache owner locates a working link to a working cam that points to the coords on the cache page, or while they wait out the camera down period.

 

Posting a picture that proves you were there is not what's required. For a webcam, an image of yourself, captured with webcam is the requirement.

 

If a cache owner lets a webcam stay active as converted virtual, ie, any image at the location will do, eventually that webcam listing is going to be archived. It wasn't reviewed and published as a virt, it was published as a webcam.

[+JesandTodd]

Any suggestions?

 

Post a "Need Maintenance" on the cache page. If noting happens then post a "Needs Archive". The last if the camera it not intended to show a place, where you can stand - or the library don't want you to use the camera as an object in a game, that has nothing to do with the library.

 

Um did you even go to the cache page or read any of the replies in this thread? There are FOUR working webcams.

 

Somehow, someway....everybody else has found a way to properly log this webcam. I bet it had something to do with reading the cache page and all...

[Pup Patrol]

Any suggestions?

 

Post a "Need Maintenance" on the cache page. If noting happens then post a "Needs Archive". The last if the camera it not intended to show a place, where you can stand - or the library don't want you to use the camera as an object in a game, that has nothing to do with the library.

 

The OP has posted a NA on the cache page, and now it is turning into a forum debate.

 

Interesting that at least twice in this thread there has been mention of the fact that there are numerous webcams available, and at least one was working, yet you've ignored that.

 

Apparently, so did the OP. Notice that the OP hasn't returned to this thread, but chose to take the whining to the cache page, and the reviewer.

 

phhhttt.

 

I'm with the CO on this one, too. The CO did the right thing, and hopefully the reviewer will let that be known on the cache page, now that he/she has to deal with a petty NA log.

 

 

B.

[+GeoBain]

Post a Needs Archived. That will show that CO to mess with you.

 

OP is out of gas on this one. After reading the listing it should have been clear to the OP that there was more than 1 camera to choose from. I gotta say the CO made is clear what was expected. If it were me, I would have understood the CO required the webcam pic and either would have tried the other cameras or cut my losses and been thankful for the adventure. Now the OP is just being spiteful. Turning the listing into a forum is not going to bode well for the OP, especially since they already have this thread going which is where all the discussion should reside.

[+GeoBain]

A local cacher has posted on the page that this is not a one off (would have been better for the CO to do this on the description). The cacher didn't know this.

 

That's the OP's fault. The CO is very specific about it in the listing. He even states this is the reason for the difficulty rating. If you don't read the listing, whose fault is it?

[4wheelin_fool]

The icon worshippers tend to get unruly when the object of their desire is just out of reach and unattainable. This left brain dominance is mentioned in the story of the golden calf in the Old Testament, and is the reason behind the virtual angst, as well as the screaming when the last remaining APE cache disappeared. The icon itself becomes more important than anything around it, and any experience to obtain it. REPENT NOW!!!

 

:D

[+Lil Devil]

There are 6 (six) webcams to choose from. The OP *clearly* mentions that one of them was working, because he mentioned the pumpkins.

Not necessarily. The webcam could have been showing an old image from the last time it was working, back in October

 

Oh, and the OP is a she

[+briansnat]

As I understand it, the entire point of a webcam cache is to have your photo taken by the webcam. If you can't do that for whatever reason, it's a DNF.

 

If I were the webcam owner I'd delete the log too.