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"Didn't find it" ettiquette


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Still super brand new to this. 3 days, 17 finds, but I've been to over 24 locations.

 

Sometimes, I don't know if it's my phone's GPS that isn't working; if I don't know exactly what to look for; or if I am not looking hard enough.

 

So, my question is: How long do you look before throwing in the towel, and, do you always log it as "not found"?

 

I didn't want to say I didnt find it in case it was a negative to whoever hid the cache. Again....still not sure exactly how this works.

 

So, under what circumstances should you, or should you not log as "didn't find it"?

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If I look for it and don't find it, I post a DNF. If I look for it again, another day, and don't find it, I post another DNF. If I later stop again and do find it, I leave my previous DNFs and post a Found It. I know if I've looked or not... I don't play semantics with the word. Nobody is looking at your DNFs and laughing... no shame in it (well... OK, sometimes :laughing: )

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Just like any other log, a DNF is a record on geocaching's collective history books. It just documents a fact that happened. Nothing negative about it, neither towards the hider nor towards yourself. In most cases a DNF log contains useful information and there never is any negative consequences for logging one. Please, do not falsify history by not logging a DNF when you searched but didn't find it.

 

As for how long to search before giving up, that's entirely your own decision. A good mystery could take years to solve, a good traditional might take several attempts = several DNF logs.

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Hey, DNF logs are some of the finest logs written.

 

There is most always a story as to why you did not find it. "Stumbled and broke my toe", "Never thought to look up", "Wandered and looked for a week becoming lost for a month", etc., etc.

 

There is a story to finding it sometimes, but far less often.

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Still super brand new to this. 3 days, 17 finds, but I've been to over 24 locations.

 

Sometimes, I don't know if it's my phone's GPS that isn't working; if I don't know exactly what to look for; or if I am not looking hard enough.

 

So, my question is: How long do you look before throwing in the towel, and, do you always log it as "not found"?

 

I didn't want to say I didnt find it in case it was a negative to whoever hid the cache. Again....still not sure exactly how this works.

 

So, under what circumstances should you, or should you not log as "didn't find it"?

 

So are you like the Challenge cache guy, or the other challenges that were very confusingly given the same name as Challenge caches? :ph34r:

 

We're pretty hardcore and obnoxious in the forums here, so you'll see a lot of "every time I spend any time looking for a cache, it's a DNF" posts. But in reality, the majority of the Geocaching populace do not log their DNF's, and subscribe to the "I didn't look hard enough" theory. By the way, I'm hardcore and obnoxious, and subscribe to the "every time I spend any time looking for the cahe" theory. I'll bet I log 95% of my DNF's. The few times I don't, it's when the cache ticks me off, and I find I'm searching in a garbage strewn area, or I'm like in view of someones house. Then I subscribe to the "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" theory, and put it on my ignore list.

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am always surprised when I talk to cachers who do not log their DNFs, but I just know there are many out there, probably almost as many that do. I just do it as part of the experience, its not shameful to not find a cache and sometimes you will feel better when the next person logs a DNF after you and you can say, hey, it was not just me.

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I didn't want to say I didnt find it in case it was a negative to whoever hid the cache.

A decent Cache Owner will take into account the fact that you're new, and may even offer more hints.

 

I try real hard to post a constructive DNF, regardless of how annoyed I am about the actual spot :anicute:. Anyway, as mentioned, sometimes the best adventures happen when you didn't find it. Maybe it's cathartic to tell the story. Maybe not. But it's no blemish on the CO's record if you couldn't find it, regardless of how thoroughly you searched. It's just a log that you didn't find it.

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I've read some local logs where someone has made several attempts at finding a cache before they will log the DNF.

Not everyone is very forthcoming with the info. I'd bet that most COs would like to know of the interest in their cache, each attempt. When I make several tries, it's because I have a new idea each time. But if a cacher is going back time and time again, obsessively covering the same ground, maybe it's better he not admit that. :anicute:

Edited by kunarion
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Not everyone is very forthcoming with the info. I'd bet that most COs would like to know of the interest in their cache, each attempt. When I make several tries, it's because I have a new idea each time. But if a cacher is going back time and time again, obsessively covering the same ground, maybe it's better he not admit that. :anicute:

 

http://coord.info/GL82XT0X

 

Sigh.

Sometimes it's hard to come up with new ideas on where/how to search...

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Not everyone is very forthcoming with the info. I'd bet that most COs would like to know of the interest in their cache, each attempt. When I make several tries, it's because I have a new idea each time. But if a cacher is going back time and time again, obsessively covering the same ground, maybe it's better he not admit that. :anicute:

 

http://coord.info/GL82XT0X

 

Sigh.

Sometimes it's hard to come up with new ideas on where/how to search...

There's one cache I pass within a few feet of, at least twice each day on my commute. The only non-found cache on page one of my nearby list. I sometimes glance in its direction, but don't attempt it anymore. There's nowhere left to look, I'm done with it. I have recently logged a fresh DNF, because the field was gorgeous with wildflowers, so I posted a photo.

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I try to log all my DNFs, but I've probably forgotten a few, or just been too tired to log them at the end of the day. (In fact, I just remembered to log one we actually /found/ today!) I try to leave descriptive logs anyway regardless. But I do log as many of them as I possibly remember.

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I sometimes think as the CO would when they see one. I twinge when I see a DNF. Cause that means I might have to check to see it is missing or worry the next cacher will see it and think it might be missing. It could be they just didn't have time to look, a muggle was sitting there or they only gave it a couple of minutes.

If I didn't give enough effort I will either say so or not say anything. I try to explain why I DNFd if I did give it a good try. I know how sometimes as a CO we don't want to keep driving out to check the cache to find it's still there.

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I'm going to do a 100% edit. Guilty as charged of not carefully reading the original post. :lol: The OP is very new, and seems hesitant to log a DNF if they think it might tick off the cache owner, and make them go out and check on the cache. I wouldn't worry too much about this, as long as you don't proclaim the cache to be missing, which I have to say I've seen several times over the years. Still put me in the every time you look for a cache boat, except in the somewhat rare cases I mentioned in my first post.

Edited by Mr.Yuck
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a DNF log is of MUCH more value and use to all people involved in this game,

over a found it log.

 

so please ALWAYS write a DNF log, if you actually searched for it,

and please explain what you did and how hard and how long you searched for it.

 

if you got to the location, but could not search, due to whatever reason,

write a NOTE and explain why and what happened.

 

Welcome to this COOOL game :-)

and good luck there..

when you gain more experiance your DNF vs FOUND score will be better,

just newer expect to be able to find them all.

 

I search 5-10 mins, if I am in a hurry and got kids and wife there too..

but if I am alone and in no hurry, and if the hike there was long and hard,

I can search for 30-70 mins !!

I normally say to people : if you did not find it, you are not done looking for it.

Edited by OZ2CPU
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If I start the hunt and come up empty I always log a DNF. If I search 10 times it's 10 DNF logs. The only exception is that if I return two or more times in the same day, I'll combine those into a single log.

 

As a CO I wish people would log their DNFs, but I suspect that only about 20 percent do. I recall when I had two fairly easy caches in the same park and most searchers would go for both. Suddenly cache A was getting logged but nothing on cache B a short distance away. After a while I got curious and checked and sure enough cache B was missing. Not one DNF log on it and I'm certain that most of the people who logged finds on cache A searched for and couldn't find cache B.

 

I've heard all kinds of excuses for not logging a DNF. Say one of my caches goes missing. Cacher A doesn't log a DNF because he doesn't think he searched hard enough. Cacher B doesn't log a DNF because he plans on coming back. Cacher C doesn't log a DNF because he thinks it's his fault and doesn't want to alarm the cache owner. Cacher D logs a DNF, then Cacher E doesn't log a DNF because he's new and attributes his DNF to his newness. As a cache owner I wait for a pattern of DNFs (usually 3, or 2 for something that should be real easy) before I will go out to check on a cache. In this case there were actually five DNFs but I only know about one so I'm probably not going to check on the cache yet. That means more people will waste their time and gas looking for a missing cache.

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I'll log a DNF if I gave it a good effort and couldn't find it. There have been a couple times where I didn't log DNF because my search was stopped for other reasons (hotel manager, too many spectators)

 

One time logging a DNF worked out in my favor. This past weekend I was in an area with three new caches. I found 2 out of 3 and logged a DNF on the third. The CO emailed me with a better tip and also informed me that he was going to place three more caches in the near future.

 

It was cool to know because instead of driving the 25 miles to find the one I missed I'm going to wait for the others to be placed and get the most out of the trip.

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It depends.....

Depends on our mood, the weather, the location, past logs, etc.

 

If we don't spend enough time at a GZ location - we sometimes don't log a DNF.

If there are a bunch of DNF's and NM logs prior to our visit - we don't usually log another DNF.

If the location is what we consider 'unsafe', 'creepy', 'questionable', or just plain 'not right' - we usually don't log a DNF.

 

If the cache is in a good location, we've enjoyed the trek getting there, have a story to tell about our journey....Yeah, we'll log a DNF and write about our journey getting there. That's half (or more than half) the fun.... As a CO - I enjoy reading the 'stories'

 

If we've traveled and will never get back to that location - we probably won't log a DNF. We like to go back and 'clear out' our DNF logs if we can. Anything that we'll consider going back to - could get a DNF.

 

If the cache is known as a 'good' hide, lots of favorite points, neat location, etc etc - we might log a DNF.

 

I'm not picky about that kind of stuff. As a CO myself - It doesn't bother me if people don't log DNF's. I don't use cache logs as a method of telling me to do maintenance (unless they specify something is wrong). Depending on cache traffic - my caches get new logs every 6 months or so anyway - long before anyone logs DNF's or NM logs.

Edited by Lieblweb
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>If the location is what we consider 'unsafe', 'creepy', 'questionable', or just plain 'not right' - we usually don't log a DNF.

 

I would LOVE to get that kind of information, so we can stay away from it..

if you feel something is like this, why not post a N.A. !

and explain why ?!?!

 

I did a few times, and it feel good to save others from a bad experiance

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If you don't find it give it a DNF but DO NOT randomly give it a Needs Maintenance or Needs Archived. Sometimes NM is correct if you find broken pieces, etc.

Use common sense.

 

*this is not in response to OZ2CPU's post. Missed theirs before writing the above*

Edited by Scrabblers
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>If the location is what we consider 'unsafe', 'creepy', 'questionable', or just plain 'not right' - we usually don't log a DNF.

 

I would LOVE to get that kind of information, so we can stay away from it..

if you feel something is like this, why not post a N.A. !

and explain why ?!?!

 

I did a few times, and it feel good to save others from a bad experiance

 

What YOU would consider 'questionable' is not the same as what I (or anyone else) would consider questionable.

 

I've never logged an NA log. The only way I would ever log an NA log, is if the GZ location is obviously outside Groundspeak rules. And even then.....I would log an NM log first and foremost to allow the CO to repair/move the cache.

 

I find it 'strange' to log an NA or NM log on a cache that you've never found. WHY? Because you never saw the container. The only thing you witnessed was the area around or near GZ. Because you never found it, you don't know if there could've been alternative methods/paths to retrieve/find the cache. It's almost like you're prematurely making that decision without a full effort to find the container. There are times where I will log a DNF and mention 'hazards' or 'concerns' - but I'd never log a NA or NM unless I found the container (or pieces of the container)

 

That's just me....

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Excluding the debate about the phone GPS leading you astray.

If you search what is arguably GZ for the coordinates and cannot find the cache, log a DNF.

If you get to GZ and dont really search- time was short and you did a quick once-over and left, that's up to you. In cases like that, or where muggles prevent the search, I usually leave a note as my search wasn't thorough and there are some wonderfully evil hides out there.

If you get to GZ and hear a rattle and see a snake, do the Indiana Jones, then take a picture to post with a note. :-)

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If you don't find it give it a DNF but DO NOT randomly give it a Needs Maintenance or Needs Archived.

 

If there are DNF logs going back over a year by veteran cachers on a cache with a low difficulty and low terrain, and I spend time searching GZ, I'll log a NM, as the owner should be checking why 15 people in a row couldn't find their p-n-g that's a key hider under a bench, or a film canister in a guard rail.

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I always log my DNF's as I feel it is useful for the owner of the cache as well as those hunting the cache. Sometimes I feel I've thoroughly searched the area and sometimes not due to an uneasy feeling about the general area in which the cache is hidden. I sometimes see damage to other vegetation in the general area, and I do not feel comfortable possibly causing any more. I think more consideration should be given to what damage is being done to the area where the cache is hidden.

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So, my question is: How long do you look before throwing in the towel, and, do you always log it as "not found"?

Of course it varies depending on lots of factors, but typically it takes about a half hour before I give up. I almost always log a DNF. Rarely I'll suppress my DNF because my failure had nothing to do with the cache, like if I look one place, but then decided I don't really have time and give up before I've given it a serious effort. On the other hand, unlike some others, I generally do file a DNF if I scope out the situation and decide not to search: "Too many muggles", "GZ seemed to be in a thicket of PO", "Too lame for me" (well, actually I've never done that because I don't mind lame caches, but it would make sense if an experienced cacher skipped a cache because it looked lame).

 

I didn't want to say I didnt find it in case it was a negative to whoever hid the cache. Again....still not sure exactly how this works.

The important thing is to focus on what you really know and don't include what you don't know: you didn't find the cache, but you have no idea whether that's because it's missing. This attitude helps you recognize what you should say, things like "I only looked for a minute" and "I've only been caching a few days", or, on the other hand, "I knew what the hint meant and still couldn't find it after looking for an hour" and "I found a velcro strip; is that where the cache was?"

 

So, under what circumstances should you, or should you not log as "didn't find it"?

I've never heard of anyone complaining about DNFs in general, but keep in mind what jellis said about thinking about it from the CO's point of view and providing the right information for the CO to gauge how much your DNF tells them about an actual problem. This is also why others are talking about not filing Needs Maintenance and Needs Archived. My advice on those is to just not even dream about logging either of those for a while until you have a better idea about when they're called for.

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There is no requirement to log a DNF. I do not understand why people insist on trying to force people to post them.

[insert beating dead horse photo here]

 

I do log most of my DNFs. But that is a matter of choice. It is not a requirement. Most of the DNFs I see are worthless to me as a CO, or as a cache hunter. I do not log DNFs on caches where the CO is being nasty, or gloating on the DNFs. (Coords deliberately 20' off. Needle in a haystack.) No need to inflate their egos. And I seldom log DNFs on vacation trips. I'm still running 11% DNF/Find ratio. Yup. I've got 424 DNFs!

 

So. It is a matter of personal choice. It is not required. If you can offer some info to the CO, then definitely go for it. Otherwise, why bother clogging the cache pages with useless info?

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There is no requirement to log a DNF. I do not understand why people insist on trying to force people to post them.

[insert beating dead horse photo here]

 

I do log most of my DNFs. But that is a matter of choice. It is not a requirement. Most of the DNFs I see are worthless to me as a CO, or as a cache hunter. I do not log DNFs on caches where the CO is being nasty, or gloating on the DNFs. (Coords deliberately 20' off. Needle in a haystack.) No need to inflate their egos. And I seldom log DNFs on vacation trips. I'm still running 11% DNF/Find ratio. Yup. I've got 424 DNFs!

 

So. It is a matter of personal choice. It is not required. If you can offer some info to the CO, then definitely go for it. Otherwise, why bother clogging the cache pages with useless info?

There's no requirement to log a Found either. And I've seen some that are "clogging the cache pages with useless info."

 

As to why I think you should log a DNF - it's part of my caching story as told by logs: Found, DNF or other.

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... How long do you look before throwing in the towel, and, do you always log it as "not found"? ...

 

I log a DNF every time I search for a cache and I don't find it. I don't think I've ever thrown in the towel. I always keep the door open for a return visit. I don't see a DNF log as something that is final. It is just one record of a find attempt. I'll sometimes DNF a cache multiple times and for various reason before eventually finding it. Each attempt get another DNF log. COs really do want you to find their caches.

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Not everyone is very forthcoming with the info. I'd bet that most COs would like to know of the interest in their cache, each attempt. When I make several tries, it's because I have a new idea each time. But if a cacher is going back time and time again, obsessively covering the same ground, maybe it's better he not admit that. :anicute:

 

http://coord.info/GL82XT0X

 

Sigh.

Sometimes it's hard to come up with new ideas on where/how to search...

 

glad to see you found it today! Congrats!

 

I readily post the dnfs, because I have the hope of a newbie that a CO will check on the cache and maybe send me some assurance it's there or a morsel of a hint. I also like to keep track of the caches I need to avenge as well.

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If you don't find it give it a DNF but DO NOT randomly give it a Needs Maintenance or Needs Archived.

 

If there are DNF logs going back over a year by veteran cachers on a cache with a low difficulty and low terrain, and I spend time searching GZ, I'll log a NM, as the owner should be checking why 15 people in a row couldn't find their p-n-g that's a key hider under a bench, or a film canister in a guard rail.

That's why I also said "Use common sense"

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I always log DNFs. I've logged them when I got to GZ and couldn't get out of the car, because there was a muggle leaning against the lamppost. I logged them when I got to the area, and decided the trail looked steeper than I like. I've logged multiple DNFs on the same location.

 

The logs are the record of my geocaching adventures, why wouldn't I log them? Are people that insecure that they won't log ones they set out to find, but never got to?

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>What YOU would consider 'questionable' is not the same as what I (or anyone else) would consider questionable.

 

maybe not :-)

but I use my own sense and own judgement about if I will go there or not offcourse,

your experiance and your feeling are much appriciated in your NOTES or DNF logs,

I will use it as input. if you know something, saw something, please share it whatever it is.

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I was nearly attacked by very big and angry dog, and a man who was big and crasy and yelling at a new cache site,

I had to run and find a stick for self defence in case it got out of hand, lucky I was able to get away with out confrontations.

I wrote a very bad DNF log and even a N.A. log !!

cache got disabled very fast offcourse.

 

two weeks later another one finds it, write in the log:

no dog, no angry man, cache was an easy find..

 

so people do offcourse make their own judgements

and choose to go where they like.

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I like logging DNFs as if I'm looking over that area of the map some time in the future then I have a log for myself about why I didn't find it the last time, sometimes I forget. Helps me plan if I want to try and find it again. I've never had a cache owner be annoyed at a DNF, if you do then ignore them! They're your logs, ultimately. You may even get sent a hint after a DNF, always handy :lol:

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I didn't want to say I didnt find it in case it was a negative to whoever hid the cache.

A decent Cache Owner will take into account the fact that you're new, and may even offer more hints.

 

I DNFd the first cache I ever looked for (the container was actually missing) and that evening I got a message from tho owner offering a hint, then after telling him where I had looked he confirmed that it was missing and told me I could log it as a found but I had looked in the right spot (I realize that this is a practice which many frown upon). It was his helpful, welcoming attitude that attracted me to the game. I did go back and find the container before logging the find.

 

Posting a DNF is in no way a negative either to the person looking for a cache or the person that hid it. In fact, some cache owners intentionally make some of their caches difficult to find, so the fact that some might not be able to find it means that they've accomplished what they intended. It can be annoying when you can't find a cache that has a very low difficulty rating (1-2) but if a cache is rated a 3 or higher it's *supposed* to be harder to find than the average cache.

 

If you look at the descriptions on the cache rating system a 3 star difficulty cache includes the following: "An experienced cache hunter will find this challenging, and it could take up a good portion of an afternoon." If you're looking for a cache rated a 3 or higher and only spend 20 minutes or so looking for it, you should *expect* not to find it and post a DNF. There was a 4 star difficulty cache place in my area a couple of years ago that took me four visits and over 3.5 hours of searching before I found it. Very few people find it the first time they look.

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Each cache is different for me. If I feel I did a good search and I couldn't find it I will post a DNF. Especially if I think I found the spot it should be and it was not there. Sometimes I am wrong and it is still there. If I didn't click on where it should be then I don't post a DNF most of the time. As a cache owner I am happy to see logs so it is great to see any logs. I know the hide so can usually tell if it is still there or missing from the log left. Like I said it just depends on the cache.

-WarNinjas

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I only have 14 logs posted so far. Two of those are Did Not Find. In a few cases I have gone to a cache location and decided not to search for various reasons, in those cases I have posted nothing. The two Did Not Finds were for caches I actively searched for but failed to find.

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When we first started caching, we did not log DNFs. For my husband, I think it was because he didn't want to admit failure at something and for me it was because we didn't want the CO to think that something was wrong with their cache just because we newbies couldn't find it. But now we know that its important to log a DNF. For one thing, when we are scouting out caches to find I can see the ones we have previously attempted without success and what I had logged as the issues we had in not finding it. Also, it lets others who are planning on searching for the cache know that there might be an issue. And when there are enough DNFs for a cache the CO knows to look for it and replace or repair, or if they are not active anymore, the reviewers know to archive a cache. The only time we don't log a DNF is when we chose not to even look for it once we got to the location like there were too many muggles about or it was in a dangerous area (lots of poison ivy or wasp nest) though sometimes I might "write a note" to let others be aware of the situation of why we didn't look.

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When we first started caching, we did not log DNFs. ...for me it was because we didn't want the CO to think that something was wrong with their cache just because we newbies couldn't find it.

 

I hear this a lot and I find this kinda funny. Find counts weren't always below our name on our logs. They were added after COs companied that they were too lazy to click on the username and bring up their profile page in order to see the persons "experience level". COs are able to gage your "experience level" by looking at reported find count and respond appropriately to your logs. It is too bad that Groundspeak decided to only show COs half the picture though. In order for the CO to get a real feel for the cachers "experience level" they should also show the DNF count also.

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I am extremely new to this too. I only have about a 50% success rate at this point. It's disappointing to me every time I come up empty, but if I really looked and couldn't find it, I at least want to log something. And who knows? There may be a reason I didn't find it, like it was eaten by squirrels or something. That could be useful information to record. :)

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If I look for it and don't find it, I post a DNF. If I look for it again, another day, and don't find it, I post another DNF. If I later stop again and do find it, I leave my previous DNFs and post a Found It. I know if I've looked or not... I don't play semantics with the word. Nobody is looking at your DNFs and laughing... no shame in it (well... OK, sometimes :laughing: )

I do the same. Every visit to GZ, in which a search was done, merits a found or DNF log by me. I once logged 3 DNFs in a single day on the same cache.

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If we have had a good look round and not found the cache we always log a dnf. If nobody ever logged a dnf then you could have hundreds looking for a cache that isn't there with a CO being blissfully unaware there is a problem.

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