The Lost Art of Logging

[Ranger Fox]

Please note this is my viewpoint on the matter. Yours can and probably will differ, and that's fine. I am contributing it just to share; this is not an argument. No warranties expressed or implied. You'll notice brevity usually escapes me.

 

Years ago:

I do remember years ago, when people would write things in the physical log books and take their time with the online logs. Then the quantity of geocaches in the area reached some sort of tipping point. First, people just began signing the logs, saying they'd save their stories for online because more people would read them there--and they did so. A few years after that, copy and paste began to show its influence. These days, copy-and-paste seems to be the norm and half the online logs are copy-and-paste.

 

As a cache owner:

It takes me several hours to place most of my caches. For the Wherigo ones, that number easily goes up into two digits (for a few, just making the special cartridge took twenty some-odd hours). When I see a copy-and-paste log or a "TFTC", it makes me wonder why I even bother investing my time into this endeavor if that's all the feedback I'm going to get. When I hide a cache and come up with a special experience to impart to the finder, I want to know if s/he enjoyed it. I'm also looking for constructive criticism so I can improve the caching experience. For park-and-grab caches, I'd still like to see something to know what the area was like when the person was there, the cache's condition, or just anything else of interest. I don't expect something elegant, but it does disappoint me when I see a find log email, open it, and see it's only copy-and-paste "spam". When people call for hints, I'll remember those who write good logs, appreciating the time people have put into a cache, and those who just don't seem to care.

 

As a cacher who finds a lot:

I'm busy with so many things in the geocaching sphere these days (such as Wherigo and the Statbar Modifier), not to mention I only have three hours of free time every weekday due to a long commute (hmm... eat supper or log caches?). I've said again and again I dislike logging caches just because of the time involved writing them the way I like. I frequently have a backlog of 100 - 400 caches, though at the moment, I'm around 650 behind because I had to work on a Wherigo project, then switch over to placing two Wherigo caches for a Discovery Educator Network event, plan for Geowoodstock, and do some favors for others. Logging has become one of my lowest priorities. But, usually, I'm behind on logging because I have my personal quality standard (I don't apply this to others) and I'd rather rest or do something else than sit there for hours and hours to log caches (oh, one day, I will...). Unless it's a power trail, I want all logs to be unique and, when read in order, they will tell the story of my day. I will not copy and paste a summary of the day to each cache log. Thus, logging caches properly is a significant investment of my personal time, of which has become less over the years because I'm doing more. In this respect, I can forgive the copy-and-paste people--and am quite envious of the time they save.

 

As someone looking for a cache:

Have you ever wondered where a cache was? Of course you have. Have you ever needed help or more information? I'm strongly against abusing the phone-a-friend system (because it trivializes the time and effort others have put into finding the cache the honest way), so I frequently turn to the cache logs. I want to know if others have had a difficult time locating the cache, if the coordinates might have a problem, or if there are any other maintenance concerns or pedestrians who might have seen the last person replace the cache. Frankly, it is irritating to see canned logs when you need information to help locate the cache. When I really need help, I don't want to read a general log about someone's day! I want to know if this terrain 2.5 cache with a hint of "pipe" means for me to go into the nearby pipe or if it's a red herring and the cache is hidden right outside the pipe (true story: I came across this just yesterday). Generic logs just don't do it for me when I need help--or even to gauge if I have enough time to attempt a cache in the evening.

 

And yet the copy-and-paste people get so defensive:

Isn't it odd how defensive people get when you mention their copy-and-paste habit? They'll verbally attack you, say you have no right, claim others (but never them) can't communicate well, and all manner. It's as if you just insulted the person or thing they held most dear. Without fail, when I speak out against generic logs, I find that it's me that is required to defend his position the most--and all the while people acknowledge nice, creative logs are the way to go. It's almost like when hearing people say an ammo can in the woods is the ideal compared to park-and-grabs, but then seeing few people go after the ammo can when one is published.

 

It's just a light pole cache:

There are still things you can do for a measly LPC: cite people, traffic, the weather, what you saw in the area, any stray thoughts, what you thought of the run--anything that comes to mind. Or you can get creative. You can write a skirt-lifter log like some hot, steamy romance novel: "I caress her cold form, fingers running the length of her wide, brown skirt. I lift ever so gently--she doth shriek a protest! Hush, child, hush." You get the picture. But, yes, I understand the park-and-grabs don't deserve as much attention or quality as others. Still, I have my own standard and I'll write as verbose a log for these as I want.

 

So why don't people write more?

This is my opinion, but I think there are several contributing factors. Perhaps chief among them is the proliferation of caches combined with the time involved to write a quality log. People tend to find more caches these days and they probably still devote the same amount of time to logging those caches. Also, a larger quantity of caches don't have anything special about them (let's be blunt about that). I'd still like to think that if people come across a quality cache, they'll switch over to writing a quality log as a result. It has been my experience that a small percentage of people do switch over to writing a quality log--or at least one not so generic (there are still some people that insist on a generic or form log for everything they find...). Perhaps another contributing factor could be the cache owners themselves. Some don't want any information about their cache to get online and tip off others, so they'll frequently get on people who are descriptive, almost forcing them to make something bland and generic. Another factor are others' generic logs: the newer cachers will just follow suit and copy what others are doing. And the more varied people are in caching, the more the original values are diluted until the longtime cachers, what they value and do are the minority.

 

The longest log I've written:

If you truly like a quality log or story, check out my logs for Atop the Rock. This log, when I wrote it, was eleven pages long. To get around the 4,000 character limit, I split the log into eight online log entries: one find and seven notes. I only hope it's entertaining to those who read it; that's all I wanted. Anyway, the point of mentioning this is, if a log is too long, I bet people will usually skim over it and not really read it. (If you do, feel free to PM me a critique; as a log author, I'd like to improve how I write.)

 

Geocaching Heritage Project:

I photograph old log books and archive them to this facebook group. Thus, the stories told by people in the physical logs years ago will be preserved in case something happens to the cache.

 

Tell me a story:

I'll leave you with this: During a flash mob event at Geowoodstock VII in Tennessee, I was sitting on a fence, imitating a country accent, talking to another cacher and commenting about the weather. I was saying I hoped it didn't rain because I didn't like finding caches when I was wet. Some guy came up to us, opened a notebook, and pointed at a number. He said he had cached through downpours on trails and driven to many a cache in the rain and, if we hadn't found this number of caches, we shouldn't even complain. The number was around 3500 or something. I looked at the other guy, the notebook, the 3500 guy, and back again to all three. I finally settled on the other cacher--he had found around 7500 and I had around 12K--and said to him, "I think we can do that". The 3500 guy chewed the inside of his cheek and began talking about FTF count. This ticked me off because I don't play the number game as a competition, so I dropped the fake accent, interrupted him and asked, "How many?" He replied proudly, "300." I then said, "I have more than 700. Big deal. My turn to ask you: what's your favorite cache? Where have you been? Any fun adventures you can tell me? What about creative caches--have you come across any? TELL ME A STORY!" The guy just chewed the inside of his cheek and walked off. To me, the number of caches you've found should be an indicator of the stories you have to tell. If you don't have any stories to tell, what good are numbers? That's one of the things I enjoyed about being around CCCooperAgency: she was always very eager to tell stories--and remembered so many of them. I'll never be able to remember as much as her, and that's why I'd like to write my stories in my online logs. When I, too, have departed the caching scene, the only thing that will remain years later are the stories I wrote in my online logs and those I've touched along the way.

[+6NoisyHikers]

[+dprovan]

I frequently have a backlog of 100 - 400 caches, though at the moment, I'm around 650 behind...

This is the first good argument I've heard for cut&paste. I'm a big fan of good logs and always take the time to report my experience with each cache, but as both an owner and a seeker, I'd much rather have "TFTC" the same day than a lengthy story, possibly including obsolete information, posted a month later. (How do you remember anything interesting to say about a cache after you work through the backlog to get to logging it? I'm lucky if I can remember my experience by the end of the day.)

 

I think Alamogul uses a good compromise. He always logs quickly, but he rarely writes more than a sentence. And at the same time, he doesn't cut&paste, and his logs reflect something individual about each cache.

[+The_Incredibles_]

I frequently have a backlog of 100 - 400 caches, though at the moment, I'm around 650 behind...

This is the first good argument I've heard for cut&paste. I'm a big fan of good logs and always take the time to report my experience with each cache, but as both an owner and a seeker, I'd much rather have "TFTC" the same day than a lengthy story, possibly including obsolete information, posted a month later. (How do you remember anything interesting to say about a cache after you work through the backlog to get to logging it? I'm lucky if I can remember my experience by the end of the day.)

 

I think Alamogul uses a good compromise. He always logs quickly, but he rarely writes more than a sentence. And at the same time, he doesn't cut&paste, and his logs reflect something individual about each cache.

 

Agreed. My opinion is this. If you're a power caching, I think we can forgive you if you don't write a long log for each cache. However, I don't think it's too much to ask to write a sentence of two for each cache you do find. I personally find cut and paste logs offensive (unless it's a power trail). I figured if you have the time to #1 drive/walk/bike to a cache #2 search for a cache #3 sign the log and replace the cache, you have to time to write a sentence or two. Really!

[+JesandTodd]

Please note this is my viewpoint on the matter. Yours can and probably will differ, and that's fine. I am contributing it just to share; this is not an argument. No warranties expressed or implied. You'll notice brevity usually escapes...

 

I read both this post and your log on my teeny iPhone screen and enjoyed both immensely.

Do people comment on your logs or let you know that they appreciate them?

[+Rainbow Spirit]

Although he doesn't cache any more (and that is a whole different story), I would highly recommend reading some logs by Tangles, a local Aussie cacher. He would often weave in stories concerning nudity and banana smoothies.....

[Troutonthebrain]

A couple people earlier said that a reason for not writing a good log is because cache owners would not appreciate them. We would tend to disagree. I do not have many caches under my username since I hide with a family member and our caches are under their name. Between our 140 caches hidden or so we have received over 10,000 "found it" logs and have read every single one. As one can imagine, 20 "TFTC" logs in a row are rather painful but I always love a good log!

 

---

"It has always been my private conviction that any man who pits his intelligence against a fish and loses has it coming."

~ John Steinbeck

"Three-fourths of the Earth's surface is water, and one-fourth is land. It is quite clear that the good Lord intended us to spend triple the amount of time fishing as taking care of the lawn."

~ Chuck Clark

[Ranger Fox]

Do people comment on your logs or let you know that they appreciate them?

Once or twice a year, I might get a random email from a cache owner, thanking me for writing something about their cache. It doesn't even have to be a long log or especially creative, either. An appreciatory email is nice, but at the end of the day, I like writing the logs--I just dislike how long it can take.

 

As for that monstrously long log I linked to, I had a story to tell and I told it in as entertaining a way as possible. When I was handling a logo request for the Statbar Modifier, someone mentioned he enjoyed the log. He was from outside my area and I had no clue how he heard of it (on a side note, this is the first time on any forum I mentioned this log). I decided to ask. Word of mouth, apparently: someone told him of it and someone else told that person. I had no clue it was making its rounds. I wrote that just because I enjoyed it (though I would have probably enjoyed it less had something happened to my car), so I was happy others were enjoying it as well.

 

A couple people earlier said that a reason for not writing a good log is because cache owners would not appreciate them. We would tend to disagree. I do not have many caches under my username since I hide with a family member and our caches are under their name. Between our 140 caches hidden or so we have received over 10,000 "found it" logs and have read every single one. As one can imagine, 20 "TFTC" logs in a row are rather painful but I always love a good log!

I agree. I only have half as many hides, but I still enjoy reading every log that comes in my inbox. Since I don't have many park-and-grabs and some of my caches are somewhat unusual, I don't get many logs every week. I'm fine with that because I have other things in the sphere of geocaching that come to me.

 

I frequently have a backlog of 100 - 400 caches, though at the moment, I'm around 650 behind...

This is the first good argument I've heard for cut&paste. I'm a big fan of good logs and always take the time to report my experience with each cache, but as both an owner and a seeker, I'd much rather have "TFTC" the same day than a lengthy story, possibly including obsolete information, posted a month later. (How do you remember anything interesting to say about a cache after you work through the backlog to get to logging it? I'm lucky if I can remember my experience by the end of the day.)

By the way, 500 of that was from the Geowoodstock weekend. Doing cache runs always tends to put be behind, and when I return, I have to catch up on everything else and find time to rest (because working is far less work than my "vacations"). I understand--and, frankly, agree--people would like more... ah... timely logs. So this is a good point. I also like to log caches in order, so even though I plan to use copy-and-paste on a power trail I did over the weekend, it has to wait until I've caught up. As for how I remember every cache, there are several ways I can jog my memory: cache name, hint, satellite view, and--very important for me--a mental snapshot of the map and being able to recall the caches in order. My memory isn't always that good; I will occasionally forget to log a field note and, a few weeks later, I'll have to dig though my GPSr backups to see which cache I visited on that day. Since I've been on a streak ever since before my first year geocaching anniversary, it's easy to tell if I'm missing a day.

 

Someone once called me for a hint on a cache I did during a week-long power run in Florida (600 miles away) some year and a half after I found the cache. After reading my log, seeing the time stamp, and looking at the satellite map, I was able to tell him where it was (but the container escaped me). I can't do it with all caches, but one of the keys to doing it at all is how I write the log.

 

-------------

 

One important thing to note is that while we can pine for quality logs, we can't force others. And you can't expect to see quality logs if you yourself don't write any. However, by being an example to others in the community, your words can influence and encourage others to express themselves in what they write. Not everyone can be a Stephen King or Maya Angelou, but everyone is capable of expressing themselves in their own way. As long as that's achieved to the writer's satisfaction, that's good enough. Encourage positively those around you who are receptive and don't force the rest.

[ll JK ll]

@Ranger Fox

 

I enjoyed reading your post, especially the "tell me a story" section. I completely agree that it's silly to get caught up in the number game. In a way it's sad that someone would solely focus on that instead of remembering great locations and experiences.

 

I'm only 63 deep and my travels for these caches have left me with a lot of cool memories. I could care less about how many I find.

 

When I was standing on a rock formation on Tobacco Row mountain staring off into the beautiful Virginia scenery I had no idea what number "Very Sketchy" was on my "found" list. I was just glad someone put a cache up there to lure me to the top.

 

Another thing about meaningful logs - For people who don't want to write a long entry I think sharing pictures is another way to add more significance to a log. The pics don't have to be artistic to be meaningful but if you snap a pic of wildlife or some feature of the area I'm sure a future cacher will appreciate it. I think it's cool to look through a log page and see seasonal pics, such as a waterfall in summer then to see it frozen in winter.

[mjb716]

I almost always post some kind of story in my logs. And, I've noticed from the cache that I've placed, most people seem to write a story for me as well. I think it just depends on the cachers in the area. Buffalo/Niagara has a pretty great caching community. ^^

[+Lady Loki]

I've been encouraging the 13 year old to write good logs. So far we're getting roughly two sentences, but they're unique to each cache, which I think is good. I can beat him into longer logs when he gets more experience.

[+lamoracke]

will agree with Ranger Fox on the one comment I remember reading...about TFTC on a Wherigo. If you are doing a true Wherigo (ie you did not have the coords before you got there, like say the ones on that jet plane in Idaho), to not remember your Wherigo journey when it most likely took you at least 1/2 hour if not 3-4 hours is kinda a bit silly.

 

The more epic the effort to find a cache, ie a really tough puzzle, or a long Wherigo, a long multi etc etc, and just writes TFTC would make me think as the CO that this person just got the final coordinates from someone. Right or wrong, its what I would think.

[+Scubasonic]

If you want to see in my opinion the best online logger go to this cache GC5537 and go to 4/4/2004 and look for the cacher with the name of oregone he writes the best posts of a find I have ever read pretty funny unfortunetly he has not found a cache since around this time. But it's a fun read if you are so inclined. He still visits the site but that's about it to bad.

 

Love to hear what you think of his posts, pretty entertaining..........

 

Scubasonic

[+jellis]

Please note this is my viewpoint on the matter. Yours can and probably will differ, and that's fine. I am contributing it just to share; this is not an argument. No warranties expressed or implied. You'll notice brevity usually escapes me.

 

Years ago:

I do remember years ago, when people would write things in the physical log books and take their time with the online logs. Then the quantity of geocaches in the area reached some sort of tipping point. First, people just began signing the logs, saying they'd save their stories for online because more people would read them there--and they did so. A few years after that, copy and paste began to show its influence. These days, copy-and-paste seems to be the norm and half the online logs are copy-and-paste.

 

As a cache owner:

It takes me several hours to place most of my caches. For the Wherigo ones, that number easily goes up into two digits (for a few, just making the special cartridge took twenty some-odd hours). When I see a copy-and-paste log or a "TFTC", it makes me wonder why I even bother investing my time into this endeavor if that's all the feedback I'm going to get. When I hide a cache and come up with a special experience to impart to the finder, I want to know if s/he enjoyed it. I'm also looking for constructive criticism so I can improve the caching experience. For park-and-grab caches, I'd still like to see something to know what the area was like when the person was there, the cache's condition, or just anything else of interest. I don't expect something elegant, but it does disappoint me when I see a find log email, open it, and see it's only copy-and-paste "spam". When people call for hints, I'll remember those who write good logs, appreciating the time people have put into a cache, and those who just don't seem to care.

 

As a cacher who finds a lot:

I'm busy with so many things in the geocaching sphere these days (such as Wherigo and the Statbar Modifier), not to mention I only have three hours of free time every weekday due to a long commute (hmm... eat supper or log caches?). I've said again and again I dislike logging caches just because of the time involved writing them the way I like. I frequently have a backlog of 100 - 400 caches, though at the moment, I'm around 650 behind because I had to work on a Wherigo project, then switch over to placing two Wherigo caches for a Discovery Educator Network event, plan for Geowoodstock, and do some favors for others. Logging has become one of my lowest priorities. But, usually, I'm behind on logging because I have my personal quality standard (I don't apply this to others) and I'd rather rest or do something else than sit there for hours and hours to log caches (oh, one day, I will...). Unless it's a power trail, I want all logs to be unique and, when read in order, they will tell the story of my day. I will not copy and paste a summary of the day to each cache log. Thus, logging caches properly is a significant investment of my personal time, of which has become less over the years because I'm doing more. In this respect, I can forgive the copy-and-paste people--and am quite envious of the time they save.

 

As someone looking for a cache:

Have you ever wondered where a cache was? Of course you have. Have you ever needed help or more information? I'm strongly against abusing the phone-a-friend system (because it trivializes the time and effort others have put into finding the cache the honest way), so I frequently turn to the cache logs. I want to know if others have had a difficult time locating the cache, if the coordinates might have a problem, or if there are any other maintenance concerns or pedestrians who might have seen the last person replace the cache. Frankly, it is irritating to see canned logs when you need information to help locate the cache. When I really need help, I don't want to read a general log about someone's day! I want to know if this terrain 2.5 cache with a hint of "pipe" means for me to go into the nearby pipe or if it's a red herring and the cache is hidden right outside the pipe (true story: I came across this just yesterday). Generic logs just don't do it for me when I need help--or even to gauge if I have enough time to attempt a cache in the evening.

 

And yet the copy-and-paste people get so defensive:

Isn't it odd how defensive people get when you mention their copy-and-paste habit? They'll verbally attack you, say you have no right, claim others (but never them) can't communicate well, and all manner. It's as if you just insulted the person or thing they held most dear. Without fail, when I speak out against generic logs, I find that it's me that is required to defend his position the most--and all the while people acknowledge nice, creative logs are the way to go. It's almost like when hearing people say an ammo can in the woods is the ideal compared to park-and-grabs, but then seeing few people go after the ammo can when one is published.

 

It's just a light pole cache:

There are still things you can do for a measly LPC: cite people, traffic, the weather, what you saw in the area, any stray thoughts, what you thought of the run--anything that comes to mind. Or you can get creative. You can write a skirt-lifter log like some hot, steamy romance novel: "I caress her cold form, fingers running the length of her wide, brown skirt. I lift ever so gently--she doth shriek a protest! Hush, child, hush." You get the picture. But, yes, I understand the park-and-grabs don't deserve as much attention or quality as others. Still, I have my own standard and I'll write as verbose a log for these as I want.

 

So why don't people write more?

This is my opinion, but I think there are several contributing factors. Perhaps chief among them is the proliferation of caches combined with the time involved to write a quality log. People tend to find more caches these days and they probably still devote the same amount of time to logging those caches. Also, a larger quantity of caches don't have anything special about them (let's be blunt about that). I'd still like to think that if people come across a quality cache, they'll switch over to writing a quality log as a result. It has been my experience that a small percentage of people do switch over to writing a quality log--or at least one not so generic (there are still some people that insist on a generic or form log for everything they find...). Perhaps another contributing factor could be the cache owners themselves. Some don't want any information about their cache to get online and tip off others, so they'll frequently get on people who are descriptive, almost forcing them to make something bland and generic. Another factor are others' generic logs: the newer cachers will just follow suit and copy what others are doing. And the more varied people are in caching, the more the original values are diluted until the longtime cachers, what they value and do are the minority.

 

The longest log I've written:

If you truly like a quality log or story, check out my logs for Atop the Rock. This log, when I wrote it, was eleven pages long. To get around the 4,000 character limit, I split the log into eight online log entries: one find and seven notes. I only hope it's entertaining to those who read it; that's all I wanted. Anyway, the point of mentioning this is, if a log is too long, I bet people will usually skim over it and not really read it. (If you do, feel free to PM me a critique; as a log author, I'd like to improve how I write.)

 

Geocaching Heritage Project:

I photograph old log books and archive them to this facebook group. Thus, the stories told by people in the physical logs years ago will be preserved in case something happens to the cache.

 

Tell me a story:

I'll leave you with this: During a flash mob event at Geowoodstock VII in Tennessee, I was sitting on a fence, imitating a country accent, talking to another cacher and commenting about the weather. I was saying I hoped it didn't rain because I didn't like finding caches when I was wet. Some guy came up to us, opened a notebook, and pointed at a number. He said he had cached through downpours on trails and driven to many a cache in the rain and, if we hadn't found this number of caches, we shouldn't even complain. The number was around 3500 or something. I looked at the other guy, the notebook, the 3500 guy, and back again to all three. I finally settled on the other cacher--he had found around 7500 and I had around 12K--and said to him, "I think we can do that". The 3500 guy chewed the inside of his cheek and began talking about FTF count. This ticked me off because I don't play the number game as a competition, so I dropped the fake accent, interrupted him and asked, "How many?" He replied proudly, "300." I then said, "I have more than 700. Big deal. My turn to ask you: what's your favorite cache? Where have you been? Any fun adventures you can tell me? What about creative caches--have you come across any? TELL ME A STORY!" The guy just chewed the inside of his cheek and walked off. To me, the number of caches you've found should be an indicator of the stories you have to tell. If you don't have any stories to tell, what good are numbers? That's one of the things I enjoyed about being around CCCooperAgency: she was always very eager to tell stories--and remembered so many of them. I'll never be able to remember as much as her, and that's why I'd like to write my stories in my online logs. When I, too, have departed the caching scene, the only thing that will remain years later are the stories I wrote in my online logs and those I've touched along the way.

+1 totally agree. Though my actions don't reflect it right now. But now that I am no longer mega caching I will try to write more.

[Mr.Yuck]

Please note this is my viewpoint on the matter. Yours can and probably will differ, and that's fine. I am contributing it just to share; this is not an argument. No warranties expressed or implied. You'll notice brevity usually escapes me.

 

Years ago:

I do remember years ago, when people would write things in the physical log books and take their time with the online logs. Then the quantity of geocaches in the area reached some sort of tipping point. First, people just began signing the logs, saying they'd save their stories for online because more people would read them there--and they did so. A few years after that, copy and paste began to show its influence. These days, copy-and-paste seems to be the norm and half the online logs are copy-and-paste.

 

As a cache owner:

It takes me several hours to place most of my caches. For the Wherigo ones, that number easily goes up into two digits (for a few, just making the special cartridge took twenty some-odd hours). When I see a copy-and-paste log or a "TFTC", it makes me wonder why I even bother investing my time into this endeavor if that's all the feedback I'm going to get. When I hide a cache and come up with a special experience to impart to the finder, I want to know if s/he enjoyed it. I'm also looking for constructive criticism so I can improve the caching experience. For park-and-grab caches, I'd still like to see something to know what the area was like when the person was there, the cache's condition, or just anything else of interest. I don't expect something elegant, but it does disappoint me when I see a find log email, open it, and see it's only copy-and-paste "spam". When people call for hints, I'll remember those who write good logs, appreciating the time people have put into a cache, and those who just don't seem to care.

 

As a cacher who finds a lot:

I'm busy with so many things in the geocaching sphere these days (such as Wherigo and the Statbar Modifier), not to mention I only have three hours of free time every weekday due to a long commute (hmm... eat supper or log caches?). I've said again and again I dislike logging caches just because of the time involved writing them the way I like. I frequently have a backlog of 100 - 400 caches, though at the moment, I'm around 650 behind because I had to work on a Wherigo project, then switch over to placing two Wherigo caches for a Discovery Educator Network event, plan for Geowoodstock, and do some favors for others. Logging has become one of my lowest priorities. But, usually, I'm behind on logging because I have my personal quality standard (I don't apply this to others) and I'd rather rest or do something else than sit there for hours and hours to log caches (oh, one day, I will...). Unless it's a power trail, I want all logs to be unique and, when read in order, they will tell the story of my day. I will not copy and paste a summary of the day to each cache log. Thus, logging caches properly is a significant investment of my personal time, of which has become less over the years because I'm doing more. In this respect, I can forgive the copy-and-paste people--and am quite envious of the time they save.

 

As someone looking for a cache:

Have you ever wondered where a cache was? Of course you have. Have you ever needed help or more information? I'm strongly against abusing the phone-a-friend system (because it trivializes the time and effort others have put into finding the cache the honest way), so I frequently turn to the cache logs. I want to know if others have had a difficult time locating the cache, if the coordinates might have a problem, or if there are any other maintenance concerns or pedestrians who might have seen the last person replace the cache. Frankly, it is irritating to see canned logs when you need information to help locate the cache. When I really need help, I don't want to read a general log about someone's day! I want to know if this terrain 2.5 cache with a hint of "pipe" means for me to go into the nearby pipe or if it's a red herring and the cache is hidden right outside the pipe (true story: I came across this just yesterday). Generic logs just don't do it for me when I need help--or even to gauge if I have enough time to attempt a cache in the evening.

 

And yet the copy-and-paste people get so defensive:

Isn't it odd how defensive people get when you mention their copy-and-paste habit? They'll verbally attack you, say you have no right, claim others (but never them) can't communicate well, and all manner. It's as if you just insulted the person or thing they held most dear. Without fail, when I speak out against generic logs, I find that it's me that is required to defend his position the most--and all the while people acknowledge nice, creative logs are the way to go. It's almost like when hearing people say an ammo can in the woods is the ideal compared to park-and-grabs, but then seeing few people go after the ammo can when one is published.

 

It's just a light pole cache:

There are still things you can do for a measly LPC: cite people, traffic, the weather, what you saw in the area, any stray thoughts, what you thought of the run--anything that comes to mind. Or you can get creative. You can write a skirt-lifter log like some hot, steamy romance novel: "I caress her cold form, fingers running the length of her wide, brown skirt. I lift ever so gently--she doth shriek a protest! Hush, child, hush." You get the picture. But, yes, I understand the park-and-grabs don't deserve as much attention or quality as others. Still, I have my own standard and I'll write as verbose a log for these as I want.

 

So why don't people write more?

This is my opinion, but I think there are several contributing factors. Perhaps chief among them is the proliferation of caches combined with the time involved to write a quality log. People tend to find more caches these days and they probably still devote the same amount of time to logging those caches. Also, a larger quantity of caches don't have anything special about them (let's be blunt about that). I'd still like to think that if people come across a quality cache, they'll switch over to writing a quality log as a result. It has been my experience that a small percentage of people do switch over to writing a quality log--or at least one not so generic (there are still some people that insist on a generic or form log for everything they find...). Perhaps another contributing factor could be the cache owners themselves. Some don't want any information about their cache to get online and tip off others, so they'll frequently get on people who are descriptive, almost forcing them to make something bland and generic. Another factor are others' generic logs: the newer cachers will just follow suit and copy what others are doing. And the more varied people are in caching, the more the original values are diluted until the longtime cachers, what they value and do are the minority.

 

The longest log I've written:

If you truly like a quality log or story, check out my logs for Atop the Rock. This log, when I wrote it, was eleven pages long. To get around the 4,000 character limit, I split the log into eight online log entries: one find and seven notes. I only hope it's entertaining to those who read it; that's all I wanted. Anyway, the point of mentioning this is, if a log is too long, I bet people will usually skim over it and not really read it. (If you do, feel free to PM me a critique; as a log author, I'd like to improve how I write.)

 

Geocaching Heritage Project:

I photograph old log books and archive them to this facebook group. Thus, the stories told by people in the physical logs years ago will be preserved in case something happens to the cache.

 

Tell me a story:

I'll leave you with this: During a flash mob event at Geowoodstock VII in Tennessee, I was sitting on a fence, imitating a country accent, talking to another cacher and commenting about the weather. I was saying I hoped it didn't rain because I didn't like finding caches when I was wet. Some guy came up to us, opened a notebook, and pointed at a number. He said he had cached through downpours on trails and driven to many a cache in the rain and, if we hadn't found this number of caches, we shouldn't even complain. The number was around 3500 or something. I looked at the other guy, the notebook, the 3500 guy, and back again to all three. I finally settled on the other cacher--he had found around 7500 and I had around 12K--and said to him, "I think we can do that". The 3500 guy chewed the inside of his cheek and began talking about FTF count. This ticked me off because I don't play the number game as a competition, so I dropped the fake accent, interrupted him and asked, "How many?" He replied proudly, "300." I then said, "I have more than 700. Big deal. My turn to ask you: what's your favorite cache? Where have you been? Any fun adventures you can tell me? What about creative caches--have you come across any? TELL ME A STORY!" The guy just chewed the inside of his cheek and walked off. To me, the number of caches you've found should be an indicator of the stories you have to tell. If you don't have any stories to tell, what good are numbers? That's one of the things I enjoyed about being around CCCooperAgency: she was always very eager to tell stories--and remembered so many of them. I'll never be able to remember as much as her, and that's why I'd like to write my stories in my online logs. When I, too, have departed the caching scene, the only thing that will remain years later are the stories I wrote in my online logs and those I've touched along the way.

+1 totally agree. Though my actions don't reflect it right now. But now that I am no longer mega caching I will try to write more.

 

Who knew Jellis is no longer Mega caching?

 

I too read Ranger Fox's post with great interest when it was posted, and like it. It's no secret I was critical of "lame smartphone logs" prior to his post, and I notice he doesn't even mention them, or perhaps thinks all these TFTC logs we've been seeing the last couple years are "copy and paste logs".

 

I was surfing some old finds today, and found a perfect example.GCZ2DQ This cache isn't even that old, the Fall of 2006. It's a rather ordinary hiking cache in the woods that doesn't even have a single favorites point. I'll blame this on it being just another hiking cache in a park with about 40 hiking caches!

 

So the first TFTC log appeared on May 27th, 2010. Since then, there have been no less than 17 lame smartphone logs, which I'll define as two words or less. This would include totally blank logs (there are 2), emoticon logs, TFTC, etc.. Before May 27th 2010, there was ZERO logs that didn't at least consist of a sentence. Now some of you may say, "Yuck, the log right after yours in November 2006 is a "lame log". Being a local cache to me, I know that was logged by a child, the daughter of the 17,000+ finder above them, so I won't "count" that one. But if you want to be a stickler, go ahead and count it, and it will be 1 vs. 17.

 

That's all I got, just an observation and example. Thanks for listening, and looking if you did.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Mr.Yuck

[+JohnnyVegas]

When I first started geocaching and read all the how to's and what's the purposes....they all had one thing in common. When you log a visit to a cache, tell about your experience, record what you left and/or took, and thank the owner. Well I see people thank the owner all the time and that is great but rarely do I see anything else. I want to see all the great funny stories about the adventure people had when they found my cache. Was it hard, did you find it right away? Did you find it by accident? Did something funny or scary happen when you were looking? What did you take, ( I hand make personalized trinkets to leave behind, sometimes it would be nice to know who has one.), what did you drop off? Am I wrong or has the art of logging really been lost? I know when you are logging in the field it might be hard, but you can edit when you get home, I do.

Maybe it has to do with the cache. On one of my caches I ask cachers to comment on micro spew GCVBRB and many cachers express the opinions. At one time I had a cache in which the page was in pirate jargon- Thar, err, thar be ect. Cachers would comment using pirate jargon. It may also take a unique cache container. I have home made fake dog poo containers that look real (not like the struff you find at a joke shop) these always get comments. In short, make you cache something that cachers do not see. Film can, nanos and plain tupperware just will not inspire more than a cut and paste log such as TFTC

[+dprovan]

Maybe it has to do with the cache. On one of my caches I ask cachers to comment on micro spew GCVBRB and many cachers express the opinions. At one time I had a cache in which the page was in pirate jargon- Thar, err, thar be ect. Cachers would comment using pirate jargon.

I hadn't really thought about it before, but actually now that you mention it, I've noticed a lot of caches that used to get logs that reacted to the description in various ways but no longer do as often, starting with logs about the same time Mr.Yuck mentions, a couple of years ago. (His date is just about when I started caching. It wasn't me!)

 

Cache descriptions in funny language or asking people to give an opinion or impression almost always got some reaction in the older logs, but the new logs typically ignore such stuff. And not just lame logs: perfectly reasonable logs often ignore the descriptions, too. Now that I'm thinking about it, I remember in my earlier days, I'd review other logs and they'd remind me of some question the description asked me to answer, so I'd remember to answer. Nowadays, I have to try to remember myself, since recent logs aren't much help.

 

And I have to admit, my gut feeling is that people that have been caching since before that time are more likely to react than newer cachers.

 

Bottom line is a lot more cachers are just looking for the cache without really engaging it.

[knowschad]

I frequently have a backlog of 100 - 400 caches, though at the moment, I'm around 650 behind...

This is the first good argument I've heard for cut&paste. I'm a big fan of good logs and always take the time to report my experience with each cache, but as both an owner and a seeker, I'd much rather have "TFTC" the same day than a lengthy story, possibly including obsolete information, posted a month later. (How do you remember anything interesting to say about a cache after you work through the backlog to get to logging it? I'm lucky if I can remember my experience by the end of the day.)

 

I think Alamogul uses a good compromise. He always logs quickly, but he rarely writes more than a sentence. And at the same time, he doesn't cut&paste, and his logs reflect something individual about each cache.

 

Although I loved Ranger Fox's post, I do have to agree with your point, particularly when RF mentioned using the logs for information when trying to find a cache. How long will it take before I can learn if the cache he found was in the pipe, or next to it?

 

Re: Alamogul's log... that's much like Bobcam. He has been known to use copy/paste logs, but at least he will use several of them and alternate as he logs. And even then, that's rare. Never much more than a sentence, but its a sentence that shows that he remembers the experience.

[Mr.Yuck]

When I first started geocaching and read all the how to's and what's the purposes....they all had one thing in common. When you log a visit to a cache, tell about your experience, record what you left and/or took, and thank the owner. Well I see people thank the owner all the time and that is great but rarely do I see anything else. I want to see all the great funny stories about the adventure people had when they found my cache. Was it hard, did you find it right away? Did you find it by accident? Did something funny or scary happen when you were looking? What did you take, ( I hand make personalized trinkets to leave behind, sometimes it would be nice to know who has one.), what did you drop off? Am I wrong or has the art of logging really been lost? I know when you are logging in the field it might be hard, but you can edit when you get home, I do.

Maybe it has to do with the cache. On one of my caches I ask cachers to comment on micro spew GCVBRB and many cachers express the opinions. At one time I had a cache in which the page was in pirate jargon- Thar, err, thar be ect. Cachers would comment using pirate jargon. It may also take a unique cache container. I have home made fake dog poo containers that look real (not like the struff you find at a joke shop) these always get comments. In short, make you cache something that cachers do not see. Film can, nanos and plain tupperware just will not inspire more than a cut and paste log such as TFTC

 

JV, you're killing me here. Are you trying to get yourself into trouble by posting the GC number for that cache?

 

Simple explanation though. Your cache has no lame TFTC logs because it's a Premium Members Only cache. Almost all TFTC logs come from non-premium members, who themselves have never hidden a cache. I wouldn't doubt 90% of them.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

When I first started geocaching and read all the how to's and what's the purposes....they all had one thing in common. When you log a visit to a cache, tell about your experience, record what you left and/or took, and thank the owner. Well I see people thank the owner all the time and that is great but rarely do I see anything else. I want to see all the great funny stories about the adventure people had when they found my cache. Was it hard, did you find it right away? Did you find it by accident? Did something funny or scary happen when you were looking? What did you take, ( I hand make personalized trinkets to leave behind, sometimes it would be nice to know who has one.), what did you drop off? Am I wrong or has the art of logging really been lost? I know when you are logging in the field it might be hard, but you can edit when you get home, I do.

Maybe it has to do with the cache. On one of my caches I ask cachers to comment on micro spew GCVBRB and many cachers express the opinions. At one time I had a cache in which the page was in pirate jargon- Thar, err, thar be ect. Cachers would comment using pirate jargon. It may also take a unique cache container. I have home made fake dog poo containers that look real (not like the struff you find at a joke shop) these always get comments. In short, make you cache something that cachers do not see. Film can, nanos and plain tupperware just will not inspire more than a cut and paste log such as TFTC

 

JV, you're killing me here. Are you trying to get yourself into trouble by posting the GC number for that cache?

 

Simple explanation though. Your cache has no lame TFTC logs because it's a Premium Members Only cache. Almost all TFTC logs come from non-premium members, who themselves have never hidden a cache. I wouldn't doubt 90% of them.

 

That cache is about a mile from my brothers house. He found it a few years ago. I'll be visiting him next month and am hoping to spend a little time geocaching with him (I introduced him to the game several years ago). Perhaps I'll find that cache when I'm there.

[+debbidoesgeo]

I'm fairly new to caching - in my first year. I'm glad to see that a lot of people like the longer logs. Some of mine got pretty wordy because we've had some unusual experiences while caching, and I decided to share. Glad to know that some folks find that enjoyable - I was afraid people might be rolling their eyes, since so many of the logs are so succinct. I must say that sometimes there is a reason for a short log. My husband and I generally do our finds together, and he's not into the administrative part, so I'm pretty much his geosecretary. After logging 20 finds with all my stories, when I go back to log his finds, a lot of his end up being 'TFTC's. Of course, every once in awhile, one of his logs does get a little wordy, like when he praises his wife for her brilliant geo senses and resourcefulness.

Edited June 8, 2012 by debbidoesgeo

[+Biska]

I have a question for you guys. I am new to caching and enjoying it in the way I want to. I like the great walks I get to take in new parts of the countryside, and I love to read the logs for hints if I am getting bored looking for something and want to hike on!

I recently left a log for one cache on a large circuit, I also had to contact the owner about a lost log and some broken glass at GZ that I thought they would like to know about. They responded saying thanks for the heads up but "please would I change my log on a couple of their caches as they gave hints". They complimented my other logs. These particular owners gave no hints at all on this circuit and they had quite a few DNFs on several of the tougher caches. I really wanted a hint on one of their caches but so few people had found it, that I got no help. Very annoying to miss a couple out of a long circuit.

Anyway I gave a subtle clue in my log on one of the tougher ones that two of us wrestled with for plenty long enough!

So here are the questions

 

1.Am I out of order to give a hint?

2.Can the CO delete my log?

3.Should the CO try to control what the cacher writes?

 

Looking forward to replies from COs and seekers alike.

[+dprovan]

1.Am I out of order to give a hint?

According to this CO, you are out of order, yes. That's the end of the story. It's possible that the CO is just real tight, or it's possible that your hint went over the top. We can't tell from here, but in the specific case, it doesn't matter, 'cuz the CO has told you what you need to know about this log. Other COs don't mind hints, particularly if they're witty and subtle.

 

2.Can the CO delete my log?

Yes, he can.

 

3.Should the CO try to control what the cacher writes?

No, of course not. But in this case, the CO's not trying to control what you write, he's trying to protect the value of his cache.

 

From what you're saying, he was exceedingly nice about it, so I don't know why you're hesitating to please him. In particular, it sounds like the very best information about this subject in this particular case will come from discussing it with the CO himself. That will give you good insight into possible points of view of COs, whether his views turn out to be common or not, and give you ideas about how to provide hints that this CO would find acceptable, if any.

[+Biska]

1.Am I out of order to give a hint?

According to this CO, you are out of order, yes. That's the end of the story. It's possible that the CO is just real tight, or it's possible that your hint went over the top. We can't tell from here, but in the specific case, it doesn't matter, 'cuz the CO has told you what you need to know about this log. Other COs don't mind hints, particularly if they're witty and subtle.

 

2.Can the CO delete my log?

Yes, he can.

 

3.Should the CO try to control what the cacher writes?

No, of course not. But in this case, the CO's not trying to control what you write, he's trying to protect the value of his cache.

 

From what you're saying, he was exceedingly nice about it, so I don't know why you're hesitating to please him. In particular, it sounds like the very best information about this subject in this particular case will come from discussing it with the CO himself. That will give you good insight into possible points of view of COs, whether his views turn out to be common or not, and give you ideas about how to provide hints that this CO would find acceptable, if any.

 

Indeed I am not hesitating to please him. The logs have been amended for him. I just want to know how the game is played and what other COs and seekers' opinions' are. Many thanks for your input.

In this case the CO states in his email to me but not on the listings that the circuit is intended to be tricky, I guess then that he does not mind 30% DNFs on his caches, which is fine.

As I said I am new to this, so any knowledge is welcome.

Thanks

Edited June 11, 2012 by Biska

[+Ohiosiouxfan]

Here's a log I've seen recently on a few caches:

 

"Found while waiting for my daughter to get her facial. TFTF"

[knowschad]

Here's a log I've seen recently on a few caches:

 

"Found while waiting for my daughter to get her facial. TFTF"

 

Thanks For The Facial?

[+CanadianRockies]

I really wanted a hint on one of their caches but so few people had found it, that I got no help. Very annoying to miss a couple out of a long circuit.

My suggestion is to try not being annoyed when you DNF a cache, even on a long circuit. I think most people enjoy geocaching much more after they adopt an attitude that they don't have to find every cache they search for.

 

1.Am I out of order to give a hint?

You should not give hints in logs (or in log photos). In Groundspeak's Terms of Use Agreement, section 4(m), you agree not to "[p]ublish, on any Groundspeak owned web property, the solutions, hints, spoilers, or any hidden coordinates for any geocache without consent from the cache owner."

 

2.Can the CO delete my log?

Yes. Groundspeak's guidelines allow cache owners to delete solutions, hints, and spoilers in logs (and log photographs).

 

If their log or photos contain spoilers, invite them to edit the log. If you have deleted the log already, invite them to re-log without the spoiler.

Cache owners also can delete logs that appear to be bogus, off-topic, or use inappropriate language.

[+dprovan]

Indeed I am not hesitating to please him. The logs have been amended for him.

Ah, good. The angry face made me concerned that you were resisting.

 

I just want to know how the game is played and what other COs and seekers' opinions' are.

So the short answer is, it's played different ways by different people. Hints do get snuck into logs all the time, and most CO's don't mind if they aren't give-aways. But since you're a newbie, you should lay low for a while until you know for sure what's a subtle nudge and what's an objectionable spoiler, and which COs don't distinguish.

 

In this case the CO states in his email to me but not on the listings that the circuit is intended to be tricky, I guess then that he does not mind 30% DNFs on his caches, which is fine.

One thing you could say in your log is "way harder than I expected from the rating" or some such. That would tip future seekers off about the otherwise unclear nature of the hide. Very few COs would try to delete a generic comment like that, and I suspect any that did wouldn't get away with it for long. That doesn't explicitly help future finders find the cache, but it might warn them to pick a different circuit if that's not what they're looking for.

 

One thing I've learned is that you run into all kinds of COs. Yes, it's a drag to miss a cache on a 5 mile circuit you'll probably never get a second chance on, but don't let it get you down.

[+terrkan78]

<snip>

1.Am I out of order to give a hint?

2.Can the CO delete my log?

3.Should the CO try to control what the cacher writes?

 

Looking forward to replies from COs and seekers alike.

1. I appreciate it when prior finders leave mild hints in their logs. It sometimes makes all the difference. Many times I go home and read all the logs on a cache that I DNFd that day and decide to go back and look again based on what I've gleaned from the logs.

 

2&3. Yes, the CO can delete the log. Personally I find that to be controlling behavior on the part of the CO, and controlling behavior irritates me. I wouldn't hunt any more of that CO's caches (just to avoid future irritation).

 

I play this game for fun, and I want people to have fun finding my caches - I wouldn't delete anyone's log unless it was incredibly egregious. But I get that other people play the game differently (even though they're clearly wrong.)

[+6NoisyHikers]

When I am unsure about what I can post in a log or show as a picture, I always check existing logs first. If there are pics of people holding the cache, then it is probably okay to add your own. If other people are stating "Wow! That's great camo!" you could probably mention something to that effect to - which tells the rest of us that the container is not under your average unnatural pile of sticks but has probably got foliage glued to it or is a bison tube stuffed into a pinecone, etc...

 

But overall: When in doubt, DON'T give hints.

[+Biska]

<snip>

1.Am I out of order to give a hint?

2.Can the CO delete my log?

3.Should the CO try to control what the cacher writes?

 

Looking forward to replies from COs and seekers alike.

1. I appreciate it when prior finders leave mild hints in their logs. It sometimes makes all the difference. Many times I go home and read all the logs on a cache that I DNFd that day and decide to go back and look again based on what I've gleaned from the logs.

 

2&3. Yes, the CO can delete the log. Personally I find that to be controlling behavior on the part of the CO, and controlling behavior irritates me. I wouldn't hunt any more of that CO's caches (just to avoid future irritation).

 

I play this game for fun, and I want people to have fun finding my caches - I wouldn't delete anyone's log unless it was incredibly egregious. But I get that other people play the game differently (even though they're clearly wrong.)

 

Agree with all of the above! I don't mind being asked to take out the hint at all. However it seems to me that there are hints in nearly every list of logs that I have looked at, so I didn't see the problem.

I think it would be better if the cache owner is going to be so strict that they should put it in the description.

something like: This is designed to be a challenging circuit, I know it's tempting but please don't drop hints when logging your finds. then all would be crystal clear! I suspect that some do.

It appears to me that the norm is not to mind about a subtle hint?

That's a whole new thread "when is a hint not a spoiler?"