The Lost Art of Logging

10.2k · May 29, 2012

I don't see it as a smartphone issue, rather as a newbie issue. Also, a laziness issue. The laziness issue I believe is more prominent.

In the beginning, I didn't know what I was supposed to write for a log. But even then, it was still more than tftc.

http://coord.info/GL2Z2Q3W

Very nice, love to see it!! But as you probably figured, I still disagree, not a newb thing, a smartphone thing.

Here is the oldest active cache in my area. It still to this day doesn't get too many lame logs with that oldest active cache status, although a smartphone m00b did log it using only the word "Gumby" last October. Seriously. :lol: http://coord.info/GCFB3

It was placed in 2001, and almost everyone finding it in 2001 and 2002 when it was the only cache for miles was a n00b. No sir, no "nice" "good one" or "Tftc" logs there. Myself and a few locals have chuckled over the logs over the years, because most of the really early finders threatened to places caches of their own, but never did, and left the game. That's just a side note, though.

P.S. Many lame smartphone logs are obvious because the first letter of the lame log is capitalized, such as in the oft-mentioned Tftc log. Trust me, they ain't going home to a computer and typing that.

7.5k · May 29, 2012

Oh, I've found some pretty lame caches, including LPCs. But not anymore. Unless it is a really, really, really, really empty parking lot.

What's your logic here? I used to worry about the fact that lifting a skirt would draw attention to me, but then it occurred to me that those caches are pretty lame, anyway, so while I try to be as subtle as possible, I don't sweat the fact that the parking lot isn't empty, the skirt squeaks when lifted, and someone might see me grab the cache. I assume the CO took that possibility into account when they weighed the effort they went to in hiding the cache against the danger of it being muggled.

7.5k · May 29, 2012

So the basic answer is, "Don't sweat it." Lots of people put in logs of no content, newbies and old timers alike. Lots of people write decent logs. Most logs are somewhere in between. My impression is that the actual proportions are largely cultural, varying from one area to the next. So if you don't like the culture in your area, the best thing you can do is write good logs and hope others see your logs, decide that's a good idea, and put more effort into their logs. For a while, I was a little worried that I was way too verbose compared to other logs in my area, but I got over it.

When you hide caches, you can try to encourage good logs in your description, but in my experience that doesn't actually help much. As others have said, better to put effort into a good hide in an interesting spot.

But the bottom line is that you shouldn't hold your breath. No matter what, you're going to run into "TFTC" logs for who cares what reasons. The good news is that they don't take long to read.

By the way, I'm not sure anyone's answered you yet: "LPC" means "Lamp Post Cache", a cache hidden under the skirt of a lamppost, although it's generally used as a generic term representing any uncreative cache hidden with no effort or thought. So "Lame Pathetic Cache" isn't the actual meaning, but you obviously got the idea bang on.

10.2k · May 29, 2012

So the basic answer is, "Don't sweat it." Lots of people put in logs of no content, newbies and old timers alike. Lots of people write decent logs. Most logs are somewhere in between. My impression is that the actual proportions are largely cultural, varying from one area to the next. So if you don't like the culture in your area, the best thing you can do is write good logs and hope others see your logs, decide that's a good idea, and put more effort into their logs. For a while, I was a little worried that I was way too verbose compared to other logs in my area, but I got over it.

When you hide caches, you can try to encourage good logs in your description, but in my experience that doesn't actually help much. As others have said, better to put effort into a good hide in an interesting spot.

But the bottom line is that you shouldn't hold your breath. No matter what, you're going to run into "TFTC" logs for who cares what reasons. The good news is that they don't take long to read.

By the way, I'm not sure anyone's answered you yet: "LPC" means "Lamp Post Cache", a cache hidden under the skirt of a lamppost, although it's generally used as a generic term representing any uncreative cache hidden with no effort or thought. So "Lame Pathetic Cache" isn't the actual meaning, but you obviously got the idea bang on.

I don't want to go all old-timer on you, but these lame logs suddenly came out of nowhere, unexpectedly, a year (at most) before you started. As I said in a similar thread a few months ago, I was in the Army for 22 years; I have a hard time adapting to lameness. :laughing:

The problem with "lead by example" is so many of these people aren't even looking at the website, and reading all the other logs. Just thumbing out their TFTC, and moving on to the next one.

Hey, you know how the Official Groundspeak Smartphone apps have the "Geocaching can be dangerous" disclaimer when you fire up the app? How about a lame logs suck disclaimer?

1.8k · May 29, 2012

I went back into my personal archives (much dust and many cobwebs).

I was never a TFTC logger and never terribly verbose ... a tad more than a minimalist until I ran into this cache page for a cache in suburban Buffalo, N.Y..

At first I was bent out of shape, however, after reading some of the old logs and some reflection I altered my minimalist ways.

What follows is a cut and paste from the cache page .

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

There is nothing special about the legs on this one, you’ve seen them before!

The “Only Requirement” to find this cache is that you must write 20 words or more about your experience!

Yes, you Lame Loggers – that post “found it” will be deleted asap. You are warned in advance!

Yupp, my ego about caching experiences, and simple lame logs have clashed!

There is more to caching than a “Found It” log! I’ve found even grab and go’s – can have something nice said about them!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Many of us have been to lame goober caches ... Perhaps the caches were lame, look up look around. There might be something nice to say. Perhaps the owner is an individual of special circumstances. Maybe the swag is not up to your standards ... it just might be some kids special treasure.

Did a cache once in a front yard of a residence ... parents pushed a kid outside in a wheel chair who was tickled pink that someone came-a-calling and he was tickled that I liked is old corroded Matchbox Race Car.

The parents responded afterwards to my kind on-line log. Just because a cache is a Goober there might be many back story factors behind the goober ... we could at least respect the owners thoughtfulness in placing the cache.

Edited May 29, 2012 by humboldt flier

5.7k · May 29, 2012

Out of 4,383 logs to date, the only time we've ever logged "tftc" was on tftc.

We always try to log something about the cache or our search for/trip to the cache. Failing that, we still try to log something original. On our first stab at power trail caching, I got a little punchy but still refused to do copy and paste logs. So I started logging about the songs that were currently playing on iTunes, random Wikipedia articles, and emails from my spam filter.

For caches that have more than just micro log books (and, sadly, many regular and large size caches we've found lately have only had micro-sized log books), we try to log a little note. Something to break up the list of names and dates that most cache logs these days seem to have turned into. And our stamp, which is a 1-color version of the German license plate on the front of our geocoin.

7.5k · May 29, 2012

The problem with "lead by example" is so many of these people aren't even looking at the website, and reading all the other logs. Just thumbing out their TFTC, and moving on to the next one.

That's not a problem with leading by example, it's a problem with those cachers, since nothing at all the OP can do will ever be seen by them.

It's interesting to hear that a few years ago no one posted lame logs. I think you're suggesting that that's because of new people, but I see plenty of lame logs from old timers.

May 29, 2012

my last three logs . same day, same park. I have a smartphone,

these are a good representation of what my logs look like these days. ( with the exception of my super-newbie logs the first handful of finds) I've finally remembered to wrote down what I leave/ take so I don't forget. I like to write that when log online.

lampethree found The Ugly Bug's Bungalow

Saturday, 26 May 2012Ohio

thanks for #101! this is a really cool park- our first time here. got us up and out of the house, even in this waaaay too hot heat. (I'm a snow bird!) took one thing apiece, ( two Girly toys and a cement mixer )left TB, a rainbow strap( new), a geo emergency kit, a blue carabiner keychain, and a sewing kit( all new and in individual little ziplocs). - we left some stuff the "grown ups" might like too, as well as the kids. this cache was packed full!! thanks for the hike and the find!

lampethree found tangle

Saturday, 26 May

thanks for my 100th find! took pink frog,left fish and TB. really cool park- will def. come back when it doesn't feel like Dante's Inferno outside. !

lampethree found Sissy's Playground

Saturday, 26 May 2012Ohio

fairly quick find, a clever hide! I've driven past this place a lot but never stopped - nice and shady here. thanks for the cache!!

I just realized that this is my 99th find! one more to go!

May 29, 2012

To be honest I don't usually discriminate between caches. I will search for any of them. Early on I didn't appreciate what a log can do for the CO and for other cachers and so they were often brief, although never an acronym alone. Once I got to realizing how these could be helpful and the reward that it serves for a CO to hear what happened, I started trying to expand my log length to an acceptable length for my own standard. I keep working at it, but I will not leave a log of less than a proper sentence no matter what the cache is like! It is a personal rule; if it meant enough for me to look for it, then it deserves an appropriate log.

Whether I love the cache or hate it I will give it a few quick, positive comments. It goes a long way in my ability to not get overly serious about myself and how I play. I think the more that people set stringent standards for other people, the harder it becomes to enjoy this game since its players are endlessly diverse.

It's not perfect (nor am I), but at least I don't sound like an old-timer

May 30, 2012

If I have a story to tell I tell it. If your cache is cool or unusual I say so. If it's just another LPC then "TNLN TFTC" is how I log it.

Of course, when you do that, you also don't claim a smiley, right?

I really (and I mean REALLY) don't care about "smiles". The ONLY use they have for me is to show me on the map which caches I've found. I know it sounds cliché but I could care less about the numbers (or FTF for that mater).

If I had a good time finding your cache you'll hear about it in my log...

... if your cache is uninspired then it's TNLNTFTC.

PS What does a mediocre cache have to do with a smiley and if I "claim" it or not?

May 30, 2012

Im am not simply talking about my caches, I am talking about all caches. Before I go out and find a cache I like to read if others had fun going for it or not. and just because a cache doesnt have alot of favorite points doesnt mean it isnt fun, so you cant rely on that always. and if it is my cache, not looking for a pat on the back, just opions, if it sucked, tell me so I can do something about it. This post was ment to get people thinking about what caching is supposed to be, not start a bicker fit amongest us all. So to future posters in this topic, please if you dont have anything nice, or at least not productive to say...dont say anything at all.

Froggymama3 -- FIRST, let me say that I totally agree with the golden rule. After you have been around here awhile ... (and by 'awhile' I mean that I have only been here 2.5 months!) ... if you continue to come to the message boards... you will learn that (and I'm not pointing fingers at ANYONE) some people on the boards just have a bit of "snarkiness" about them. Some days I can handle it, and other days I'm just not in the mood and I leave the boards and don't "play". But please don't take it personally because it is not just THIS board... if you go read a mass quantity of them, you will find snarkiness abounds! But the other thing is, that the people who ARE here ON these boards are the people who (for the most part) DO care about logs, DO care about creative caches, creative logs, hospitality, the whole nine yards. MOST of the people who are regulars here have been geocaching for many years! They're in it because they LOVE it! But I would venture a GUESS that less than 1% of ALL geocachers EVER visit these boards! The people that you are trying to "reach"... are not reachable! Because they're not here. The people who are here... mostly love the game as it started. 10 years ago... with large Ammo cans in the woods and loooong descriptive logs. And the rest? They get chased away by the snarkies! :laughing:

May 30, 2012

I love to write logs, especially after finding great caches. Even the lame caches get a decent log about my experience. I am the guy who will spend an hour logging caches with unique logs. Every once in a while I will go back to some of the caches I have favorited to read my logs and enjoy the experience all over again. Just yesterday I was very happy that I do write descriptive logs because I just opened an account for my 5 year old son who has been caching with me since he was 2. In order to find which caches I found with him I just searched for the ones that I wrote about having him along. I then used my logs to write up his logs. Here are three examples from our one trip:

3.slukster

I haven't been to the SMR in quite some time so I was excited to be back and brought the kids and grandma. These three caches seamed like the perfect series to take my 4 yr old son out hiking without tiring him out too much and ending up having to carry him back. Used the jogging stroller for my 17 month old girl and it worked great going over the rough trail. We passed by a turtle along the way which scared my son. I found the cache and let my son discover it on his own. We all enjoyed this cache. Thanks for the series.

little_slukster

School is closed this week so I am out caching with dad, grandma and sis. That turtle was scary. My dad tried to get me to pick him up. No way dad. The cache container was really cool. I liked this cache.

2.slukster

Heading around the well marked trail was a nice adventure with the family although the actual trail got a bit tricky to follow with my jogging stroller. My poor daughter was getting bashed around as we traveled over the many rocks along this trail. The hint made this an easy find although my son was a bit dissappointed he couldn't reach it. I was laughing to myself as I was visualizing Barry up on a ladder or old log setting this one up. p) I was happy that I am 6ft tall for this one. Thanks for the cache.

little_slukster

Geocaching with dad, grandma and sis. Poor sis is getting knocked around in the stroller. Dad had to reach this one since I am not tall enough to get it (hey, I am only 4). Hopefully I will be as tall as dad someday. I like geocaching.

3.slukster

After finding the first two caches in the series with the whole family we headed back to the dog park to drop off grandma and my daughter since she took quite a bashing rolling down the trail in the jogging stroller. Turns out this lavender trail would have been much better for her since it is better maintained and was pretty smooth the whole way. My son was loving all of the chipmunks running around. When we got to the fork in the trail I wasn't sure whether to take to the high trail of the low trail so we went high and would end up walking the entire trail anyway. After stopping to take a pic and before moving on down the trail I looked at the hint and realized we were right on top of the cache. Made the find and then continued on down the trail, stopping on the "proposed" bridge trail for a pic. My son enjoyed the crushed stone steps and the wildflowers. Thanks for bringing us out to this beautiful area of the preserve.

little_slukster

We left grandma and sis at the dog statue. I think sis had a headache after the rough ride in the stroller. What pretty flowers on this trail. The stone steps were fun to run up and down. Oh look, there goes a chipmunk. And another. Chipmunks are cool and so fast. Dad found this cache while I stood up on the big rock.

I forgot that he had found 30 caches with me over the last three years. It took me over two hours tracking down the caches and then reading my logs and then logging his. I enjoyed every moment as I relived those fun times. And if you are reading through the logs you will see my log and then his log together (obvious with the usernames we are together) and it puts together a story of a father & son caching together. And to top it all off, after I finished logging my son's finds, I received an email from one CO who wrote:

Your logs are almost as much fun as your caches....

And after I get a nice log on one of my caches, especially a story of something funny or wild that happened to the cacher, I will often drop them a note and thank them for visiting the cache and for sharing their story.

Edited May 30, 2012 by slukster

May 30, 2012

I didnt mean to criticize the way anyone logs, I simply ment to ask the what happened? Why doesnt anyone take the time anymore? But after posting this I do see that there are still people who enjoy the log as much as the cache. And like someone else said, we arnt looking for a novel, just that happy medium. As for smart phone logging, I log on mine all the time but still manage more than TFTC. There are some folks in our area that log, temporary logs on smartphone and then edit when they get home....Ive done this a few times.

and what is LPC???

and is it okay to respond when someone logs on your cache.

May 30, 2012

LPC = Lamp Post Cache

I have not seen people "respond" on their logs... I don't see why it COULDN'T be done... but it might annoy some people who want to read just the logs -- looking for tips and all. Of course, it's YOUR log - and others may very much enjoy reading your responses! (there's always going to be at least two sides to anything!) :lol: If you want to keep a record of how you've responded, then I say GO FOR IT! Or you could just private message them with an email. I have emailed with some of my finders. But the bottom line is... it's YOUR game - play it the way you want!

10.2k · May 30, 2012

Im am not simply talking about my caches, I am talking about all caches. Before I go out and find a cache I like to read if others had fun going for it or not. and just because a cache doesnt have alot of favorite points doesnt mean it isnt fun, so you cant rely on that always. and if it is my cache, not looking for a pat on the back, just opions, if it sucked, tell me so I can do something about it. This post was ment to get people thinking about what caching is supposed to be, not start a bicker fit amongest us all. So to future posters in this topic, please if you dont have anything nice, or at least not productive to say...dont say anything at all.

Froggymama3 -- FIRST, let me say that I totally agree with the golden rule. After you have been around here awhile ... (and by 'awhile' I mean that I have only been here 2.5 months!) ... if you continue to come to the message boards... you will learn that (and I'm not pointing fingers at ANYONE) some people on the boards just have a bit of "snarkiness" about them. Some days I can handle it, and other days I'm just not in the mood and I leave the boards and don't "play". But please don't take it personally because it is not just THIS board... if you go read a mass quantity of them, you will find snarkiness abounds! But the other thing is, that the people who ARE here ON these boards are the people who (for the most part) DO care about logs, DO care about creative caches, creative logs, hospitality, the whole nine yards. MOST of the people who are regulars here have been geocaching for many years! They're in it because they LOVE it! But I would venture a GUESS that less than 1% of ALL geocachers EVER visit these boards! The people that you are trying to "reach"... are not reachable! Because they're not here. The people who are here... mostly love the game as it started. 10 years ago... with large Ammo cans in the woods and loooong descriptive logs. And the rest? They get chased away by the snarkies!

You do realize Froggymama, for all practical purposes, created a "TFTC logs are lame" thread? She agrees with us snarkies. :lol:

The problem with "lead by example" is so many of these people aren't even looking at the website, and reading all the other logs. Just thumbing out their TFTC, and moving on to the next one.

That's not a problem with leading by example, it's a problem with those cachers, since nothing at all the OP can do will ever be seen by them.

It's interesting to hear that a few years ago no one posted lame logs. I think you're suggesting that that's because of new people, but I see plenty of lame logs from old timers.

Yeah, point taken. There are plenty of well-established copy and paste loggers out there. And I actually have seen old-tpmers who obviously got one of those new-fangled smartphone things start to drop TFTC logs with them.

Whether I love the cache or hate it I will give it a few quick, positive comments. It goes a long way in my ability to not get overly serious about myself and how I play. I think the more that people set stringent standards for other people, the harder it becomes to enjoy this game since its players are endlessly diverse.

It's not perfect (nor am I), but at least I don't sound like an old-timer

Three years, Fred? That's quite a long time in Geocaching years. I'm going to go ahead and make you an old-timer.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Mr.Yuck

May 30, 2012

I didnt mean to criticize the way anyone logs, I simply ment to ask the what happened? Why doesnt anyone take the time anymore? But after posting this I do see that there are still people who enjoy the log as much as the cache. And like someone else said, we arnt looking for a novel, just that happy medium. As for smart phone logging, I log on mine all the time but still manage more than TFTC. There are some folks in our area that log, temporary logs on smartphone and then edit when they get home....Ive done this a few times.

As a CO, I suggest to anyone who does the this that you put in that TFTC log something like "a more descriptive log to follow". I usually only read the logs from the email I received so I most likely will never see your more descriptive log.

and is it okay to respond when someone logs on your cache.

If you mean send them an email then I say yes but don't do it to every cacher who logs your cache. Only if they posted an interesting log of something that happened to them or an special experience. I had one CO who used to email me to thank me for visiting his cache everytime I visited one. I imagine he did it to everyone else, even the "TFTC" loggers. Just seemed a little weird to me and after the first email I never responded again. Which brings me to another thought. Don't expect anyone to reply. If you start emailing people expecting an email back then you might be dissappointed. If you meant post a note to the cache page, then no unless you are responding to something about the cache that might have been misinterpreted in the person's log. Example:

DNF Cacher Log - Searched in the obvious spot and everywhere else and the cache is gone. Needs to be replaced

CO Note - checked cache today and it is exactly where it should be.

Edited May 30, 2012 by slukster

38.2k · May 30, 2012

The lost art of logging went along with the lost art of hiding.

So true!

An LPC or quard rail micro get a simple SL in my online logs now.

At one time the quality of the cache had a direct relationship to the length of the logs. Now I'm seeing TFTC for some darn good caches and even some epic ones. Smartphones are in part to blame, and also units that allow users to upload field notes. I know my DeLorme at leasst defaults to TFTC as a field note.

Here is a cache of mine placed in 2004. It seems most of the recent logs are short, just TFTC and sometimes less, though some actually manage a few words. This is a fairly recent phenomena. Go back just a few years and there are mostly multi paragraph logs.

May 30, 2012

If you start emailing people expecting an email back then you might be dissappointed.

True THAT! An email should only be seen as a response TO a nice log... not as something needing a response back!

7.3k · May 30, 2012

When I saw the title of this thread, I thought someone had revived the old thread from 2007, which had the exact same title:

The lost art of logging

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=172314

B.

May 30, 2012

When I saw the title of this thread, I thought someone had revived the old thread from 2007, which had the exact same title:

The lost art of logging

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=172314

B.

Sorta like our parents sayin' "I don't know HOW our kids are gonna survive in this world!" ... and now we say it about OUR kids! Apparently there is NOTHING NEW!!!

1.3k · May 30, 2012

I don't see it as a smartphone issue, rather as a newbie issue. Also, a laziness issue. The laziness issue I believe is more prominent.

I think it has more to do with the idea that nothing is more important than the almighty smiley. Go out, find 30 caches, cut and paste the same log 30 times. Rinse and repeat the next day.

I've always viewed logging as part of my caching day. If I go out and find a dozen caches, that means I have a dozen logs to write (or a dozen DNF's if it's a real bad day). I enjoy writing for the CO but I also write for my own benefit. From time to time, I like to go back to some of my favorite finds and read the logs (including mine) to relive the moment. If all I did was cut and paste or TFTC logs, that wouldn't bring back too many memories. Even the best caching experiences fade over time and your log might be the only thing to bring back some forgotten but cherished detail.

10.2k · May 30, 2012

The lost art of logging went along with the lost art of hiding.

So true!

An LPC or quard rail micro get a simple SL in my online logs now.

At one time the quality of the cache had a direct relationship to the length of the logs. Now I'm seeing TFTC for some darn good caches and even some epic ones. Smartphones are in part to blame, and also units that allow users to upload field notes. I know my DeLorme at leasst defaults to TFTC as a field note.

Here is a cache of mine placed in 2004. It seems most of the recent logs are short, just TFTC and sometimes less, though some actually manage a few words. This is a fairly recent phenomena. Go back just a few years and there are mostly multi paragraph logs.

Well at least one of the TFTC loggers gave you about 10 periods after the TFTC. And they have found over 700 caches and placed two, and are still dropping TFTC logs on people. Most are from under 100 find accounts, which is very typical. And yet again, it's not just TFTC. He has smiley face logs, : D logs, and "foundQ" logs.

Are some people really that horrified by my posts? I mean one guy even started a comical post in the UK forum today, mostly poking fun at the "old-timers" in the forum. Could be a coincedence, or could be aimed at little ol' me. I guess BrianSnat puts it much more gently, and that's why he's the multi-time Geocacher of the year. :huh: Well, I give opinions, and I guess they're strong sometimes. But I know there are plenty of people out there saying "you go Yuckman", whether they post or not.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Mr.Yuck

1.8k · May 30, 2012

I don't see it as a smartphone issue, rather as a newbie issue. Also, a laziness issue. The laziness issue I believe is more prominent.

In the beginning, I didn't know what I was supposed to write for a log. But even then, it was still more than tftc.

http://coord.info/GL2Z2Q3W

Very nice, love to see it!! But as you probably figured, I still disagree, not a newb thing, a smartphone thing.

Here is the oldest active cache in my area. It still to this day doesn't get too many lame logs with that oldest active cache status, although a smartphone m00b did log it using only the word "Gumby" last October. Seriously. http://coord.info/GCFB3

It was placed in 2001, and almost everyone finding it in 2001 and 2002 when it was the only cache for miles was a n00b. No sir, no "nice" "good one" or "Tftc" logs there. Myself and a few locals have chuckled over the logs over the years, because most of the really early finders threatened to places caches of their own, but never did, and left the game. That's just a side note, though.

P.S. Many lame smartphone logs are obvious because the first letter of the lame log is capitalized, such as in the oft-mentioned Tftc log. Trust me, they ain't going home to a computer and typing that.

My tftc isn't capitalized. FWIW I always end my logs with tftc.

I can only continue to log the way I log. If someone tells me that I post too many pictures, or that I don't need to tell stories, then I'll stop.

Oh, I've found some pretty lame caches, including LPCs. But not anymore. Unless it is a really, really, really, really empty parking lot.

What's your logic here? I used to worry about the fact that lifting a skirt would draw attention to me, but then it occurred to me that those caches are pretty lame, anyway, so while I try to be as subtle as possible, I don't sweat the fact that the parking lot isn't empty, the skirt squeaks when lifted, and someone might see me grab the cache. I assume the CO took that possibility into account when they weighed the effort they went to in hiding the cache against the danger of it being muggled.

I.hate.public.hides.

Jut DNFd one today. It doesn't matter of permission was granted, or whatever. I don't Iike the way I feel when I found LPCs, and I sure as heck don't want to feel that way for a 1/1 cache!!

I just won't do it.

10.2k · May 30, 2012

My tftc isn't capitalized. FWIW I always end my logs with tftc.

I can only continue to log the way I log. If someone tells me that I post too many pictures, or that I don't need to tell stories, then I'll stop.

Yes, but when they are the entire contents of a log, the T is capitalized. I know my smartphone capitalizes the first letter of anything I type. And I too drop TFTC on the end of a 200 word log just about every time.

May 30, 2012

Three years, Fred? That's quite a long time in Geocaching years. I'm going to go ahead and make you an old-timer.

You have no idea how good that feels, lol! It is something you can't do yourself, like a nickname or being knighted. Somebody else has to be the one to do it; now I can fire off at the noobs!!

May 30, 2012

Our log on a fun Cache Blitz entry today:

B12: Phoning It In

Found it

05/29/2012

Hello? Hello? Mr... uh... Wind? Mr. Wind, this is Telus. We understand there has been a complaint about your service. Communication Technicians #2 and #4 stopped by your "house" this afternoon to assess the situation but it seems you were not onsite. However, the door was open and we hope you don't mind that our technicians entered your residence and inspected the equipment.

It was determined that a vital component of the equipment has been modified. Is this correct, sir? Unfortunately, modification of Telus property violates our terms of service and so renders your service contract with us null and void. As such, you will be required to pay the full market value of the equipment. You can expect a bill from us in 4 to 6 weeks.

TFTC

Telus Communications, Inc.

7.3k · May 30, 2012

When I saw the title of this thread, I thought someone had revived the old thread from 2007, which had the exact same title:

The lost art of logging

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=172314

Sorta like our parents sayin' "I don't know HOW our kids are gonna survive in this world!" ... and now we say it about OUR kids! Apparently there is NOTHING NEW!!!

Nope, nothing new, even after 5 years.

That thread went on for 13 pages. Wonder how this thread, with the exact same title and topic, will fare.

B.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Pup Patrol

May 30, 2012

There is an interesting discussion going on over in the Features forum about adding a Facebook-esque "like" to the logs. You'll notice in my post that I don't see a point in doing this. I'll ask the question of everyone here whether they think it would make a difference to the length/quality of logging.

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=286070

May 30, 2012

My logs are usually 2-3 sentences long. I have a hard time writing TFTC only. Sometimes I feel silly though and my logs reflect that... My link

May 30, 2012

I leave individualized logs for each cache, then paste in a story of the caching adventure for the day/weekend/trip.

There's a 4000 character limit to logs.

Edited May 30, 2012 by bramasoleiowa

5k · May 30, 2012

The lost art of logging went along with the lost art of hiding.

So true!

An LPC or quard rail micro get a simple SL in my online logs now.

At one time the quality of the cache had a direct relationship to the length of the logs. Now I'm seeing TFTC for some darn good caches and even some epic ones. Smartphones are in part to blame, and also units that allow users to upload field notes. I know my DeLorme at leasst defaults to TFTC as a field note.

Here is a cache of mine placed in 2004. It seems most of the recent logs are short, just TFTC and sometimes less, though some actually manage a few words. This is a fairly recent phenomena. Go back just a few years and there are mostly multi paragraph logs.

Well at least one of the TFTC loggers gave you about 10 periods after the TFTC. And they have found over 700 caches and placed two, and are still dropping TFTC logs on people. Most are from under 100 find accounts, which is very typical. And yet again, it's not just TFTC. He has smiley face logs, : D logs, and "foundQ" logs.

Are some people really that horrified by my posts? I mean one guy even started a comical post in the UK forum today, mostly poking fun at the "old-timers" in the forum. Could be a coincedence, or could be aimed at little ol' me. I guess BrianSnat puts it much more gently, and that's why he's the multi-time Geocacher of the year. Well, I give opinions, and I guess they're strong sometimes. But I know there are plenty of people out there saying "you go Yuckman", whether they post or not.

It's hard to deny that smartphones have changed the game and the players. I have run into people that are astonished that there are caches placed in the mountains. They became Geocachers because the bubble headed news reporter told them they could download an app that would let them find treasure under bus stop benches and in the bowels of newspaper machines. It's my opinion that a lot of the "under 100 find smartphone cachers" never get beyond the idea that it is a smartphone game, kind of like a physical version of Foursquare.

May 30, 2012

I'm new to this so maybe the novelty will wear off, but at the moment I love reading logs. Is this somehow nerdy?

Often, I'll pick interesting looking caches and sit and read their logs, rather in the way I imagine a gardener would look at seed catalogues if he can't be out there actually digging. Some of them I have no hope of ever finding myself, some are in areas I know well or may already have found. You see some really entertaining ones, and others where you can feel the pain!

Row after row of "TFTC" is disappointing in that respect, specially if (1) you found the cache and there was definitely something special about it or (2) you're still trying to find the cache and are desperately looking for a hint, any hint; but I do understand that not everyone finds writing easy, either from the "expressing yourself" point of view (look how often forum posts are criticized for spelling or grammar) or because of the smartphone thing.

I'm a smartphone user (can't stretch to a GPSr just yet) and they are awkward but it is possible to log with them. If I can find somewhere I can sit down, see my screen and it's not freezing or raining I'll do one on site; if not, the laptop comes out when I get home. I like to add photos sometimes, so it's the laptop for that, too. I always try to write something.

"Sharing the experience" is part of it, isn't it?

Edited May 30, 2012 by StripyJules

1.8k · May 30, 2012

I'm new to this so maybe the novelty will wear off, but at the moment I love reading logs. Is this somehow nerdy?

I love reading past logs! It's not nerdy at all....right???

7.5k · May 30, 2012

I.hate.public.hides.

Jut DNFd one today. It doesn't matter of permission was granted, or whatever. I don't Iike the way I feel when I found LPCs, and I sure as heck don't want to feel that way for a 1/1 cache!!

I just won't do it.

OK, thanks. Good to know. I can't say I hate public hides, but they do make me uncomfortable, but that's only because I fear compromising the cache. Once I realized that that wasn't my problem as long as I was as careful as I could be, I felt a lot less skittish about them. So far, there's only one that I suspect was muggled because it was my fault, and I haven't been caching with 4 sheets to the wind since then.

1.8k · May 30, 2012

:lol:

Ahh...but sometimes that is the best caching.

I'm always suprised to see how others cache. It's interesting how much they dont care about stealth..and it works for them! I can't seem to do it.

I just recently DNFd a cache that was in somebody's front yard. Full permission. I parked about 10 ft from the cache and actually saw it. I just couldn't do it!!

14k · May 30, 2012

I'm new to this so maybe the novelty will wear off, but at the moment I love reading logs. Is this somehow nerdy?

I love reading past logs! It's not nerdy at all....right???

Me too. I've always considered myself a voracious log reader...even after five years playing the game.

1.8k · May 30, 2012

You really get to know your community by their logs, I think. Plus, they are part of the story of the cache.

3.4k · May 30, 2012

I still type it out. I'm non-plussed by people logging my hides with a TFTC. Really, just say 'Found it' it has about the same sentiment.

I typically have something to say, even it it's brief (something along the lines of some maniac nearly running me down on his camel or such, probably not best to seek this while the camel race is going on...)

Where I find notepads or books in caches I'll usually take the time to write up a log entry, rather than just sign my name, like almost all the cachers since 2008.

10.1k · May 30, 2012

Yeah. I really start to wonder. Got four logs today "TFTC!". Same person. Yes. They are urban caches (three micros and one small). But many think the views are spectacular. "TFTC!" Guess you really didn't enjoy it? :blink:

Yeah. It's starting to get me down.

3.7k · May 30, 2012

Yeah. I really start to wonder. Got four logs today "TFTC!". Same person. Yes. They are urban caches (three micros and one small). But many think the views are spectacular. "TFTC!" Guess you really didn't enjoy it?

Yeah. It's starting to get me down.

I can sympathize. Makes you kind of want to just archive all your caches, eh?

May 31, 2012

Well honestly? It IS hard to write something creative about LPCs! I don't look for them anymore either. Unless I have my granddaughter with me. She still likes them. To her it's worth waiting for the guy sitting in the car next to us eating a sandwich to move on so that she can hop out and slip that cover up! She loves to grab the cache and bring it back to the car to SEE if by CHANCE there is some little treasure in there... and if there's NOT, to put something in! (we have a whole BAG full of things that are just for film containers and key box cases!) And I can manage a creative log for one or two in a day... but beyond that? NO! Then I start to get snarkie! :laughing: But usually, I enjoy leaving a nice note about my experience... and even though I HAVE a smart phone and a Magellan GC, the phone IS my unit of choice most of the time when I'm caching. I NEVER log from my phone. I don't go after FTF's so I don't think it's hurting anyone if I wait until I get home and spend time composing nice comments about my day. (waiting til I get home also helps me get over the snarkies from any LPC's I've found!) :laughing:

May 31, 2012

Well honestly? It IS hard to write something creative about LPCs! I don't look for them anymore either. Unless I have my granddaughter with me. She still likes them. To her it's worth waiting for the guy sitting in the car next to us eating a sandwich to move on so that she can hop out and slip that cover up! She loves to grab the cache and bring it back to the car to SEE if by CHANCE there is some little treasure in there... and if there's NOT, to put something in! (we have a whole BAG full of things that are just for film containers and key box cases!) And I can manage a creative log for one or two in a day... but beyond that? NO! Then I start to get snarkie! But usually, I enjoy leaving a nice note about my experience... and even though I HAVE a smart phone and a Magellan GC, the phone IS my unit of choice most of the time when I'm caching. I NEVER log from my phone. I don't go after FTF's so I don't think it's hurting anyone if I wait until I get home and spend time composing nice comments about my day. (waiting til I get home also helps me get over the snarkies from any LPC's I've found!)

That seemed like a lot to say about LPCs. :laughing:

May 31, 2012

Yeah. I really start to wonder. Got four logs today "TFTC!". Same person. Yes. They are urban caches (three micros and one small). But many think the views are spectacular. "TFTC!" Guess you really didn't enjoy it?

Yeah. It's starting to get me down.

Read a slew of these in one day on mine and ones I'm watching:

"Out on a power run in the area with ..... . Thanks to all who placed caches to help us met our objective. SL"

C/P for sure, all had the same wrong word. Fellow cacher wrote about the same thing.

It's so disappointing when you see a lot of found emails and you open one after the other and read the exact same message.

May 31, 2012

I always leave an unique post for every cache I find - even the ones where I am picking ticks off of stop signs... Some have nothing more to say than the state of mind I must be in to stop at yet another of the same along a power trail, but I personally can't stop at some alphabet soup. I want to leave some sort of proof that I had been there/ done that and maybe influence others who read the log to try to out random me.

38.2k · May 31, 2012

Yeah. I really start to wonder. Got four logs today "TFTC!". Same person. Yes. They are urban caches (three micros and one small). But many think the views are spectacular. "TFTC!" Guess you really didn't enjoy it?

Yeah. It's starting to get me down.

I can sympathize. Makes you kind of want to just archive all your caches, eh?

After getting half a dozen blank logs from a cacher on what I think are some pretty darn good caches I was moved to send him an email. I said "I'm sorry my caches were so disappointing. My goal was to please finders". He responded "Disappointing? Man I loved your caches". I didn't respond, but wondered if maybe he got the point. Probably not

3.7k · May 31, 2012

Yeah. I really start to wonder. Got four logs today "TFTC!". Same person. Yes. They are urban caches (three micros and one small). But many think the views are spectacular. "TFTC!" Guess you really didn't enjoy it?

Yeah. It's starting to get me down.

I can sympathize. Makes you kind of want to just archive all your caches, eh?

After getting half a dozen blank logs from a cacher on what I think are some pretty darn good caches I was moved to send him an email. I said "I'm sorry my caches were so disappointing. My goal was to please finders". He responded "Disappointing? Man I loved your caches". I didn't respond, but wondered if maybe he got the point. Probably not

Kind of like being invited for dinner and forgetting to say thank-you. <_<

10.2k · May 31, 2012

Yeah. I really start to wonder. Got four logs today "TFTC!". Same person. Yes. They are urban caches (three micros and one small). But many think the views are spectacular. "TFTC!" Guess you really didn't enjoy it?

Yeah. It's starting to get me down.

I can sympathize. Makes you kind of want to just archive all your caches, eh?

After getting half a dozen blank logs from a cacher on what I think are some pretty darn good caches I was moved to send him an email. I said "I'm sorry my caches were so disappointing. My goal was to please finders". He responded "Disappointing? Man I loved your caches". I didn't respond, but wondered if maybe he got the point. Probably not

Kind of like being invited for dinner and forgetting to say thank-you.

If Sbell111 wasn't on sabbattical, who would tell you that a TFTC logger is thanking you. EDIT: Then again, I see we're talking about blank logs in that case.

As far as "getting you down", and "makes you want to archive all your caches", Naw, we're a long way from that. Won't happen for me until TFTC logs are the norm, and become the majority of cache logs. I really don't see that happening.

What gets me down is the two relatively new unnamed persons I've mentioned in the thread with 2,000 finds and 20 hides, and 700 finds and 2 hides who are still dropping TFTC on cache owners. Hopefully accounts like that will remain few and far between.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Mr.Yuck

May 31, 2012

If you log a TFTC on my cache, I wouldn't care. I'm just glad you went out and found my cache.

14k · May 31, 2012

Yeah. I really start to wonder. Got four logs today "TFTC!". Same person. Yes. They are urban caches (three micros and one small). But many think the views are spectacular. "TFTC!" Guess you really didn't enjoy it?

Yeah. It's starting to get me down.

I occasionally get logs on my caches that appear to be cut-n-paste logs from someone that has found a few of my caches on the same day. Recently someone logged 3 of my caches with something like "#3 of 34 today with JoeCacher. Thanks to all the COs for their hides." I checked to see what other caches were found be that person and all the logs were identical. I also discovered that they had found caches on the previous few days and all of them were the same with the exception of the number of caches that they found that day.

To me the lame caches don't deserve anything more than a TFTC doesn't hold any water because whenever I've check on logs where it was just a TFTC or appeared to be a cut-n-paste *all* of the logs that that cacher had posted that day appeared to be the same despite the quality of the hide. I disagree that it's the cache or the cache owner that results in terse or cut-n-paste logs. It's just that some cacher either don't write long logs or just don't care if some hiders do make the effort to place a cache that shows a little creativity.

I do understand that it can get you down. Sometime I also wonder why I even bother trying to put in the extra effort to create something that people are going to enjoy when it seems that many caches don't appreciate the effort. When someone writes "if I find dozens of caches in a day I can't remember all of them so I just cut-n-paste logs for all of them". Apparently a selfish desire to increase ones find count trumps common courtesy.

7.5k · May 31, 2012

Sometime I also wonder why I even bother trying to put in the extra effort to create something that people are going to enjoy when it seems that many caches don't appreciate the effort.

Obviously you put in the effort for those cachers that do appreciate the effort. Don't worry about the other guys.

Apparently a selfish desire to increase ones find count trumps common courtesy.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. I suspect they honestly think you'll enjoy the log, and they don't really consider the possibility that you'll see it multiple times. Misguided, yes, but they aren't deciding to be discourteous.

It's true that COs have the biggest gripe, but it's not really any less annoying when I'm scanning logs of an area because I'm planning a hike there, only to find many identical, extensive logs about how someone started somewhere I don't care about and took a hike I don't care about in order to get somewhere else I don't care about and have nothing whatsoever to say about the cache I'm trying to learn about.

The Lost Art of Logging

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