Very Difficult Cache

[+BigOpe]

There is a certain difficulty 5 cache that nobody has been able to find since it was placed back in March 2011 (!). Civilized location, terrain very friendly, but nobody has been able to spot it. Was planning to form a "cache mob" of numerous teams this summer and hunt until we find it, but the CO doesn't like the idea of multiple teams getting credit and knowing where it is. Not sure how that will turn out, not looking for confrontation so will drop the idea if he sticks to his objections.

 

Question 1: anyone have thoughts on this kind of situation? I thought I had a kinda fun idea, was surprised to get bad vibes from CO.

 

Question 2: anyone know of any placed-but-never-found cache anywhere on the planet that can top this? Except for the ones on top of mountains or at the bottom of the ocean, I can't imagine there are many that have gone this long without a FTF. Maybe I'll try to construct a pocket query along those lines.

[+AneMae]

Take a look at these ones:

 

GCDFB

 

GC1EAM6

Edited April 29, 2012 by AneMae

[stldenise]

Gotta ask...what's the point of placing a cache no one can find? Is it just to be annoying?

[7rxc]

There is a certain difficulty 5 cache that nobody has been able to find since it was placed back in March 2011 (!). Civilized location, terrain very friendly, but nobody has been able to spot it. Was planning to form a "cache mob" of numerous teams this summer and hunt until we find it, but the CO doesn't like the idea of multiple teams getting credit and knowing where it is. Not sure how that will turn out, not looking for confrontation so will drop the idea if he sticks to his objections.

 

Question 1: anyone have thoughts on this kind of situation? I thought I had a kinda fun idea, was surprised to get bad vibes from CO.

 

Question 2: anyone know of any placed-but-never-found cache anywhere on the planet that can top this? Except for the ones on top of mountains or at the bottom of the ocean, I can't imagine there are many that have gone this long without a FTF. Maybe I'll try to construct a pocket query along those lines.

 

Nothing wrong with a hard to find cache that is rated properly, IMHO! I'd like to know the GC# for it... so that I can 'watch' the fun. Love DNF notes if there are any (of course no one has found it yet, right?) but many don't post them.

 

Re Q1, I can sort of understand the CO wish for it to be found as intended, not by brute force. Were they against small teams or just major assaults? There is one in Texas (I believe) that has such a record, but the number escapes me for now, I have it somewhere. That has been tackled many ways, but resists finding. I do wish these were closer to me, since I'll never get there it seems. As for remote caches, well, they don't have to be remote that much, I have two near me one was posted several years back, but not FTF last I looked, I keep trying to get to that one. There is another placed last summer, I got the first one FTF, and the second was published while I was recuperating, a few SAR callouts kept me busy the rest of the time, but spring is sprunging and the grass is rizzed a bit, even a few of the birdies are back, so that one is in my sights again for sure.

 

edit: Lamp Post Cache GC1Y4WW is the Texas 'D5' I mentioned... and it gets 'teamed' all the time.

Still not found.

Doug 7rxc

Edited April 29, 2012 by 7rxc

[+uxorious]

Question 1: anyone have thoughts on this kind of situation? I thought I had a kinda fun idea, was surprised to get bad vibes from CO.

 

Sounds like a fun way to cache with others. If everyone who finds it signs the log, there isn't much the CO can do about it.

 

I may be missing something, but why would a CO care how many people it took to find his cache as long as they all found it and signed the log?

[+Cardinal Red]

There is a certain difficulty 5 cache that nobody has been able to find since it was placed back in March 2011 (!). Civilized location, terrain very friendly, but nobody has been able to spot it. Was planning to form a "cache mob" of numerous teams this summer and hunt until we find it, but the CO doesn't like the idea of multiple teams getting credit and knowing where it is. Not sure how that will turn out, not looking for confrontation so will drop the idea if he sticks to his objections.

 

Question 1: anyone have thoughts on this kind of situation? I thought I had a kinda fun idea, was surprised to get bad vibes from CO.

 

Question 2: anyone know of any placed-but-never-found cache anywhere on the planet that can top this? Except for the ones on top of mountains or at the bottom of the ocean, I can't imagine there are many that have gone this long without a FTF. Maybe I'll try to construct a pocket query along those lines.

 

Where in the guideline does it mention that the cache owner has any say to veto a "cache mob" search? Unless you are afraid of the owner, go for it.

 

And take a look at this listing, very strange: GC171MH

 

A long forum discussion about it: Rogue Reviewer? A California reviewer archived a cache in Michigan

 

I love the closing shot about giving the thread a time out "In respect of the Holiday Season".

[+Manville Possum]

Gotta ask...what's the point of placing a cache no one can find? Is it just to be annoying?

I own some listings that are very difficult to find, including this one that was placed in 2009.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=ba24ed46-88eb-48ce-bc6f-446142fe2e9c

The cache is there and findable, just extreamly difficult. There are a few of us that enjoy these type listings, but I also have had some very po'd noobs attempt my 5/5 listings then send me some nasty email or post negative notes on my listings.

[+JesandTodd]

Where's this cache at bigope? I looked for all unfound D5 caches within 100miles of Tucson but struck out. Is it in SV or Phx?

[+Walts Hunting]

It doesn't matter what the co wants. Get a group go find it and log it.

[+ocklawahaboy]

There is a cache near me named jezabel. It is unfound for five years because of the difficulty of the puzzle. As far as what you should do about the blitz on the cache.... You were evidently nice enough to ask the CO what their feelings were about it. I think you should be nice enough to respect them even though it wasn't the answer you wanted.

Edited April 29, 2012 by ocklawahaboy

[+Walts Hunting]

There is a cache near me named jezabel. It is unfound for five years because of the difficulty of the puzzle. As far as what you should do about the blitz on the cache.... You were evidently nice enough to ask the CO what their feelings were about it. I think you should be nice enough to respect them even though it wasn't the answer you wanted.

 

Probably right about that. I always operated on the old premise that it is easier to get forgiveness than permission. Got a lot done that way.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

There are a series of caches in Indianapolis hidden in shelters in parks. Shelter II an Shelter III have been especially difficult. Shelter II has over 200 DNFs and just a couple of finds and looking at the logs indicated that several times somewhat large groups of people looked for it. In at least one case an organized hunt was made, and a video made of those searching. Several cachers were "interviewed" and "cursed" the cache owner about this evil hide (all in good fun). I believe the video is still linked to from one of the logs.

 

I agree with others that there's nothing wrong with a really difficult hide as long as it's rated properly and it really *is* findable. However, when a CO tries to tell others that they shouldn't search as a group it will only lead to animosity between the CO and the rest of the community because people are going to search as a group anyway.

[+DanOCan]

Was planning to form a "cache mob" of numerous teams this summer and hunt until we find it, but the CO doesn't like the idea of multiple teams getting credit and knowing where it is. Not sure how that will turn out, not looking for confrontation so will drop the idea if he sticks to his objections.

 

The CO needs to quickly learn that there are some things you can control and some things you can't -- this ain't one of them. Get the group together and go hunt for it.

[+BigOpe]

UPDATE: CO has relented and okayed the mob approach if that's what we choose to do. FWIW, I queried for 5-difficulty traditional caches within 1000 miles of my home that were placed a year or more ago and never found. Got five results, two never attempted, the other three had only a couple of DNFs. So with 40+ attempts, and a very easy terrain rating, this one is certainly in a class of its own; I told CO we might award him a medal of some kind! The cache, by the way, is in Ruidoso NM, and if we do the mob it will be at the June 9th Billy the Kid event there. Y'all come -- even if we don't mob it, everyone's welcome to go for it on their own and share in our collective frustration.

[7rxc]

AH! GC2QQZ8 Sounds like it would be fun, too bad it's way down there in Ruidoso.

 

Doug 7rxc

[+lamoracke]

my head still hurts after reading a lot of the link from post #6 regarding that SuperFly cache.

[+JesandTodd]

my head still hurts after reading a lot of the link from post #6 regarding that SuperFly cache.

 

You too, huh? Man, I felt like I just read a book! What a bizarre situation.

 

Hey bigope, good luck! I'll slap that cache on my watchlist...

[+jellis]

UPDATE: CO has relented and okayed the mob approach if that's what we choose to do. FWIW, I queried for 5-difficulty traditional caches within 1000 miles of my home that were placed a year or more ago and never found. Got five results, two never attempted, the other three had only a couple of DNFs. So with 40+ attempts, and a very easy terrain rating, this one is certainly in a class of its own; I told CO we might award him a medal of some kind! The cache, by the way, is in Ruidoso NM, and if we do the mob it will be at the June 9th Billy the Kid event there. Y'all come -- even if we don't mob it, everyone's welcome to go for it on their own and share in our collective frustration.

I didn't see the waypoint number on this. I'm sure most us are curious to see the logs.

[7rxc]

UPDATE: CO has relented and okayed the mob approach if that's what we choose to do. FWIW, I queried for 5-difficulty traditional caches within 1000 miles of my home that were placed a year or more ago and never found. Got five results, two never attempted, the other three had only a couple of DNFs. So with 40+ attempts, and a very easy terrain rating, this one is certainly in a class of its own; I told CO we might award him a medal of some kind! The cache, by the way, is in Ruidoso NM, and if we do the mob it will be at the June 9th Billy the Kid event there. Y'all come -- even if we don't mob it, everyone's welcome to go for it on their own and share in our collective frustration.

I didn't see the waypoint number on this. I'm sure most us are curious to see the logs.

up in post 15... pretty sure that's it.

 

Doug 7rxc

[+lamoracke]

its on post #15 jellis. I bet its in some way buried in something.

[+uxorious]

my head still hurts after reading a lot of the link from post #6 regarding that SuperFly cache.

 

No single thread in any forum ever taught me more about forum attitudes than that one. Many, many posters pay no attention what so ever to what others post. Thirty plus pages of angst, and no resolution at all.

[+Sol seaker]

 

And take a look at this listing, very strange: GC171MH

 

A long forum discussion about it: Rogue Reviewer? A California reviewer archived a cache in Michigan

 

I love the closing shot about giving the thread a time out "In respect of the Holiday Season".

 

Oh yeah! That old thing! I had forgotten about that.

That provided some forum entertainment for a while.

 

I think the most important thing to learn from that thread is in post # 14. That is, eating too much cake CAN indeed, turn your hair pink.

[+dakboy]

UPDATE: CO has relented and okayed the mob approach if that's what we choose to do.

He can't take your find way from you even if he doesn't "relent." The CO can't dictate to you whom you may or may not cache with.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Got five results, two never attempted, the other three had only a couple of DNFs. So with 40+ attempts, and a very easy terrain rating, this one is certainly in a class of its own;

 

I wouldn't say that it's in a class of it's own. Shelter III in Indianapolis went almost a year before it had it's first find, had over 330 logs posted (DNF logs, notes, and owner maintenance logs) and had 93 people watching it when it was first found. At one point almost three years passed in between finds. It currently has 226 DNFs and only 8 finds (a few of those were made by "teams" of a couple of different cachers). It took over a year before Shelter II was first found and I think there were well over 100 DNFs before that. There have been several threads here about other very difficult caches that have shown some really impressive DNF to Find ratios.

 

It doesn't appear that the cache owner has verified that the cache is still in place since it was published. Until the cache is found or the CO confirms it's still in place, all those DNFs could be from people searching for something that was muggled the day after it was placed. If you look at the IndyMagicMan Shelter series caches you'll see that he frequently checks on it to verify it's still in place.

[knowschad]

I will be the dissenting opinion here, I guess. I would NOT like to see a "cache mob" formed to find this. For one thing, the search area is limited to a very small area, so only a few people will be able to do any real searching anyway. Second, groups like that tend to tear things up. Not saying that has to happen, but it probably will. Third, most of the "cache mob" will just be idle hangers-on that will get the log the find, despite the fact that they were probably just standing around chatting while others were doing the hard lifting, yet if the cache is found, they will get to participate in the find (and for those that care, in the "FTF").

[knowschad]

Gotta ask...what's the point of placing a cache no one can find? Is it just to be annoying?

Some people like "impossible" caches. They like the idea that they may be the first and one of the few to be able to solve the mystery.

[+geodarts]

It doesn't appear that the cache owner has verified that the cache is still in place since it was published. Until the cache is found or the CO confirms it's still in place, all those DNFs could be from people searching for something that was muggled the day after it was placed. If you look at the IndyMagicMan Shelter series caches you'll see that he frequently checks on it to verify it's still in place.

 

There was a local cache that defied attempts to find it, including a unofficial group attempt (at least nine or ten of us were all over a bus stop) until the owner checked on the cache and found it was no longer at the original location. It was one of the more creative containers I had seen and apparently it had been found by someone and flicked away far enough from the location to prevent it being found by us -- although the CO was able to spot it and return it to its intended spot, if he had not checked on it right away it soon would have been removed by the street sweeper.

 

(The CO later moved the cache to another location, but soon after an outhouse was placed nearby and people ended up signing the outhouse thinking that it was the cache).

 

Second, groups like that tend to tear things up. Not saying that has to happen, but it probably will.

 

From what I have seen, that generally happens with "nearly impossible" to find caches in any event. People tend to tear things up in the search whether in a group or by themselves.

Edited April 30, 2012 by geodarts

[Mr.Yuck]

Gotta ask...what's the point of placing a cache no one can find? Is it just to be annoying?

Some people like "impossible" caches. They like the idea that they may be the first and one of the few to be able to solve the mystery.

 

Solve the mystery? I suppose. But look for a needle in a haystack, placed just because they can? And trust me, anyone can. As a matter of fact, I just ignored a brand new needle in a haystack nano this morning.

[+niraD]

Gotta ask...what's the point of placing a cache no one can find? Is it just to be annoying?

Some people like "impossible" caches. They like the idea that they may be the first and one of the few to be able to solve the mystery.

Solve the mystery? I suppose. But look for a needle in a haystack, placed just because they can? And trust me, anyone can. As a matter of fact, I just ignored a brand new needle in a haystack nano this morning.

For the really satisfying ones, there is no haystack. In 5 or 10 minutes, you've searched "everywhere it could possibly be", and then you have to figure out how/where the owner actually hid it.

 

And it isn't necessarily about being one of the few to solve the mystery. Some of the D4 camouflage caches around here attract Favorites points, and therefore attract a lot of attention, so there are plenty of other people finding them. But there's something satisfying about finally holding a well-crafted camouflage cache in your hand, or in finally realizing that something you've touched several times is actually the cache.

[knowschad]

Gotta ask...what's the point of placing a cache no one can find? Is it just to be annoying?

Some people like "impossible" caches. They like the idea that they may be the first and one of the few to be able to solve the mystery.

 

Solve the mystery? I suppose. But look for a needle in a haystack, placed just because they can? And trust me, anyone can. As a matter of fact, I just ignored a brand new needle in a haystack nano this morning.

Needle in a haystack hides typically get called out very quickly. Not every difficult cache is a needle in a haystack.

[+SwineFlew]

my head still hurts after reading a lot of the link from post #6 regarding that SuperFly cache.

 

No single thread in any forum ever taught me more about forum attitudes than that one. Many, many posters pay no attention what so ever to what others post. Thirty plus pages of angst, and no resolution at all.

Before my time. I read most of the thread the other day and i will say that it was good the thread was locked or it will be still going today. I got my opinion about it but thats for another day. Superfly is still caching and hiding caches. (he got another caching account)

[+Harry Dolphin]

Temple on a cliffside

 

Or you could just toss down a throw down at different coords, and call it a find! Probably muggled two years ago, but what does that matter?

[+ras_oscar]

UPDATE: CO has relented and okayed the mob approach if that's what we choose to do. FWIW, I queried for 5-difficulty traditional caches within 1000 miles of my home that were placed a year or more ago and never found. Got five results, two never attempted, the other three had only a couple of DNFs. So with 40+ attempts, and a very easy terrain rating, this one is certainly in a class of its own; I told CO we might award him a medal of some kind! The cache, by the way, is in Ruidoso NM, and if we do the mob it will be at the June 9th Billy the Kid event there. Y'all come -- even if we don't mob it, everyone's welcome to go for it on their own and share in our collective frustration.

 

Has anyone ever met the CO in person? If not, s/he could attend the mob event and sit on the cache.

[+popokiiti]

There is one on Vancouver Island that wasn't found for four years - my colleague's husband was one of the FTF crew that climbed the darn mountain to get it. Golden Hinde Grind I think it is called.

 

Here is the link, and ickster's log explains the journey....

Golden Hinde Grind

Edited May 2, 2012 by popokiiti