Forum for Park Caching Policies

[+The Leprechauns]

I'm working with other Pennsylvania geocachers to develop a workable policy for placing caches in State Parks with permission from the Park manager. Our ongoing efforts are achieving success! (For details, see this thread in the Northeast forum.) In doing research for this project, I noticed that many other discussions have taken place, with varying results. It seems like we keep re-inventing the wheel with each land manager.

 

I would like to request that a separate forum area be established just for keeping track of the cache placement policies in various States, Counties, Cities, etc. A separate forum means that future cache placers will know where to go to read about the rules. Postings in the regional or general forums tend to slide off the front page into history, and people are less likely to go search for them. It is important to follow the policy once a cooperative land manager reaches an agreement with concerned geocachers. The forum would also help in mobilizing campaigns to allow caching in places that presently prohibit it. Finally, you can point a ranger or park supervisor to a specific area in the forums to show what their colleagues are doing in other places.

 

Also in my research, I noted that this is not a new request. Before Markwell goes and does a search of the old forums, I hasten to add that this idea was suggested in June of 2001 by, well, Markwell. It was a good idea then, and it's a good idea now.

 

I have collected dozens of links to threads discussing this issue in the regional forums. If we don't have a new forum, I will post a master index in the General forum.

 

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"Daddy, are we there yet? No, .17 to go. Are we there yet? No, .16 to go....."

[+Markwell]

...and a year later, we're finally getting results too. The reason I suggested that (I did? I don't remember that one!) was that we were working hard with a county Forest Preserve District. They basically said no.

 

Now, a year later, they've seen what good Geocaching can be, and they want us there, under guidelines. Still not official yet, but it is looking promising. One catalyst was the Cleveland Metroparks. Check out what they've done!

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocachers

[+The Leprechauns]

What, you mean you don't remember each and every one of your 857 forum postings?

 

To give credit where credit is due, in this old thread Markwell wrote on June 12, 2001:

 

quote:

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Thanks for posting these type of conversations in this area. It will undoubtably help our cause in the Chicago area if we have others' experiences on which to draw.

 

Maybe Jeremy should open a new forum, specifically for positive interactions with Park Services.

---

 

I was glad to hear your progress report on your local situation.

 

And yes, Cleveland Metroparks is a shining example of cooperative geocaching. We were going to point the PA State officials to Cleveland as an example, but people like MissJenn, QuestMaster, Mikechim, Smoochnme, Puppyman, Cachier, Team Grayrun and others were so persuasive in their letter writing and face-to-face meetings with rangers, we never needed to do that!

 

The point is, someone facing the Park permission issue for the first time in Anytown, Any State ought to be able to EASILY find past discussions and positive examples in places like Cleveland, Maryland and so forth.

 

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"Daddy, are we there yet? No, .17 to go. Are we there yet? No, .16 to go....."

 

[This message was edited by The Leprechauns on July 31, 2002 at 07:50 PM.]

[+worldtraveler]

It would also be a good place to post templates of letters that have been used successfully in obtaining permission for cache placements.

 

Worldtraveler

[+MissJenn]

by the Leprechauns:

quote:

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I have collected dozens of links to threads discussing this issue in the regional forums. If we don't have a new forum, I will post a master index in the General forum.

---

 

I noticed that when the Benchmarking Section was added, someone (Jeremy? Elias? an angel?) kindly transfered all relevant threads into the new section. Perhaps this list that the Leprechauns have already compiled would be a great help -- IF a new section is, in fact, born.

 

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You must be present to win.

[+Markwell]

My 857 current postings aren't the problem. It was the 1200 (yes, 1200) posts prior to forum conversion that I don't remember as well.

 

This thread has my post count at 1282.

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocachers

[+SherwoodForest]

I also second the motion for a regulations/permit topic. I'm really happy with the policy that Cleveland Metroparks has in place (Congrats to Carly), but it would be helpful if we had some place to gather all the info (I've been following the PA park thread, but only because I regularly check the NorthEast pages because I do some caching in western PA.

 

It would also be good to have who the contacts are for different regions. I'm struggling with that right now, because I have a series of virtual, on-trail caches planned for Cuyahoga Valley National PArk, but I don't want to get them mad at us (again), but I don't know who to talk to there (my e-mail to their catch-all e-mail addy seems to have gone unnoticed...)

 

"You will kneel before her in her altar in the trees" - Tara MacLean, Let Her Feel The Rain

[+SherwoodForest]

Okay, time for an update. I finally have a name for a person(s) to contact about policy regarding virtual geocaching in CVNP. I am going to call this person tomorrow and get a dialogue going with her about virtual geocaching, and hopefully good things will happen, and the other 4 virtuals that I and another local geocacher have planned will be appearing soon. And I'll let this forum know what happens (unless we get our own category before then )

 

"You will kneel before her in her altar in the trees" - Tara MacLean, Let Her Feel The Rain

[iryshe]

Geocaching Activists?

 

We've been considering ways of creating technology around this idea. One thought is to request a shapefile (which is basically a digital map) from each park of the areas they manage, and acquire their policy. That way you can visualize what areas have policies on a map, as well as contact info, etc. It's also a good way for planning to see all the areas that may be off limits (or allowed).

 

Obviously we would need a map server, but we're getting close to acquiring one.

 

We do want to create tools for this effort but we're overwhelmed, and I doubt the park systems would pitch in to help us out. They're underbudgeted and understaffed as it is. But they'll have to at least take some initiative so we know their stance on the sport/hobby/etc.

 

I suppose this is a post to let you know that we have thought about it, and we are considering options to address it. But from here it looks like the community is doing a heck of a lot of positive work already to put a good face on this hobby.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

[+Markwell]

We're not really activists - that sounds too much like "extremist" which we are, but we can't demonstrate our insane addiction and be taken seriously by park personnel.

 

The shape files would be nice, but I think all we're looking for is a place where people can tell their success stories. What tipped the scales in the balance of having a park accept Geocaching vs. deny it? Then people who are fighting their own smaller battles can learn from others.

 

The eventual end product might be a basic template of a workable method of trying to procure permission. Of course, that template would have to be tailored for the individual situation.

 

This forum could also have emblazoned across the top National areas (National Parks) and their stance (nothing but virtual).

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

[+worldtraveler]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):

We've been considering ways of creating technology around this idea...

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Jeremy,

Like so many others, I appreciate the fact that you're thinking "outside the box" and looking for the ultimate fix; but what we're requesting here is a simple interim solution requiring no (or very little) additional cost/time. Please just add a new forum that can be used as a common repository for ideas, communications, templates, published policies, contact names, etc. that will aid us in our attempts to acquire permission from land managers. It can help geocaching have a consistent, unified voice when speaking to authorities, thereby increasing our credibility; and it may aid the authorities in developing/changing policies if they know there is a forum available where they can find published policies used by other land managers and where they can post their own with reasonable assurance they will be read by the target audiences.

 

And IF we keep it civil, it could even become a "town hall" where land managers will feel comfortable soliciting feedback regarding proposed policies before they enact them or perhaps even ask for our help in developing them.

 

Worldtraveler

[+The Leprechauns]

for responding here and for letting us in on your ideas. The map tool is too cool for school.

 

I agree with Worldtraveler... it ought to be easy to give us a forum now, and then a fancy page on the main site later on after the 67 other "priority items" are implemented on the site. You could use the info. collected from the forums to seed the new "official contact" area. Let the USERS collect the info from the parks!

 

We really need both... a forum to debate and lobby and complain and applaud the positions of the various land managers, and report progress on developing policies (or lack of progress)... then the final policies get published in some sort of orderly way on a page in the main site.

 

Thanks for listening everybody. NOW... I am late getting started on a cache trip to 3 state parks this weekend!

 

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"Daddy, are we there yet? No, .17 to go. Are we there yet? No, .16 to go....."

[+MissJenn]

quote:

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Originally posted by Markwell:

geocaching advocacy

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that has a nice ring to it.

[+The Leprechauns]

The idea of having a place on the geocaching site where permission policies can be collected and discussed continues to surface in the many regional threads that discuss the cache placement policies of various land managers. So, I'm renewing this request. Not sure where a "geocaching advocacy" section fits in on the list of site improvements, but at least it's on the list....

 

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It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames.

[+Markwell]

Heh - the site moves about as fast as the bureaucratic red tape around here. I am having a meeting on MONDAY with the DuPage County people about placing their first official Geocache.

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

[Pubo]

In addition to a forum, (I know...first thing's first)

how about a zipcode lookup database for park personel contact info.

 

The database could have a field containing any status information on placing caches in the area.

If it's allowed, are permits required, who to contact for a go-ahead...etc.

 

Possibly the meeting schedules for the local advisory commitees, contact phone numbers...

Anything and everything that's pertinent to getting approval for the community without having every (twelth) cacher contact them with an individual request.