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Searching For TBs


ohmelli

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I really, REALLY would love it if this option would be removed from our possibilities. The area that I live in has a MAJOR (or maybe more than one) TB thief and there is NO SAFE PLACE to drop a travel bug in all of Southern Maryland and the vicinity! I went caching yesterday and SHOULD have come across about 20 TBs. I found NONE. I have two in my posession - one of my own, and one belonging to someone else - that I simply will NOT drop because I know the minute I do they will go missing! I feel SO BAD for the people who's bugs I HAVE dropped and have WATCHED them go missing! I really feel this is a feature that could be disposed of. It would be fun to come across a TB by chance on occasion... rather than expecting to find one (or 4) and instead finding them NOT there. Thoughts?

Edited by ohmelli
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Well, at least to not be able to be searched for. You know when you set up a PQ you can say AND "has TB's"... but honestly, if there was some way to log them, but not have them SHOW that would be even BETTER! To just have them "log" on the TB's page. It's really a HUGE problem and has taken all the fun out of having TB's. At first I thought it was just the coins... but it's not. ALL TB's are going missing around here.

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we have a similar issue in the Seattle area. Most TBs are just traded hand to hand now and logged at the caches just for mileage and show. However, most of the time its just a matter of them taking forever to get logged. I do not think the functionality should be changed, but perhaps you can go to the handing off method if you feel you are in an area which would stand to lose one permanently or for an extended amount of time.

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Why is it that you feel you "SHOULD have come across about 20 TBs"?

I certainly wouldn't base that assumption because they were listed in cache inventory. If you check the cache inventories to find a trackable and DON'T read the logs for those listed as being there, you are going to do a lot of "wheel-spinnin'". Oh so many are not removed from the inventory as they should be. To blindly expect them to be there is, well... almost cartoonish.

 

Just what is option is it you would like removed? Searching for TB's? Just what manner is it that you search for them? There are a number of different methods.

Regardless, removing any search doesn't solve the problem. Perhaps spending the energy to find a solution would be better than eliminating a search method.

 

Funny enough, you don't want a TB to become lost, so you don't place it..... What's wrong with that equation?

 

Of the seven trackables you have moved, and the three you own..... I do not see any as be missing, lost, stolen or anything akin to that. So, just where does "I HAVE dropped and have WATCHED them go missing" come from?

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Well, I suspect in Seattle you have a LOT more events to attend than we do here. But honestly? Passing them off hand to hand, which I HAVE done with one of mine, is not the same as putting them in the cache and wondering who's going to FIND it and where it's going to go? There's a "mystery" to the whole travel bug story that is lost doing that... not to mention just the shear FUN of FINDING a TB in a cache!

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Gitchee Gummee... just because the people who OWN the bug haven't "marked" them as missing doesn't mean that they are not missing. MY OWN first bug was placed and when I went back to the cache with my granddaughter two days later it was gone. It has never been tracked. It just "went missing". After that, I went back to check on the "sword" (that very VERY special coin my granddaughter dropped) and IT was gone... it's never been tracked. I DO read the logs. I have shown up at caches where the person before me SAYS they dropped a bug... but it's NOT there. Trust me... I'm not just on a wild RANT ... I've been watching ever since I started caching -- which yes, was only a VERY short time ago. But the first couple of weeks I was caching, bugs were there when they said they were. In the last 3 weeks no matter where I look, even if the cache SAYS it has 4 or 5 TB's in it, there are NONE. Period. We have someone who is searching them and taking them. And they're NOT signing the logs!

 

But why do we NEED to have the ability to SEARCH for bugs? What would be wrong with them being a "surprise" when we find them? And why does ANYONE besides the bug owner NEED to know where the bug is??? We can "watch" a bug that we've found for however long we desire to do that... why do we NEED to be able to search for where they are?

Edited by ohmelli
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Well, at least to not be able to be searched for. You know when you set up a PQ you can say AND "has TB's"... but honestly, if there was some way to log them, but not have them SHOW that would be even BETTER! To just have them "log" on the TB's page. It's really a HUGE problem and has taken all the fun out of having TB's. At first I thought it was just the coins... but it's not. ALL TB's are going missing around here.

So the TBs would still be listed on the page but you could not do PQs to search for them?

How would this prevent people from searching for them? I can do a PQ, and not search for TBs, then use GSAK or some other daatbase to sort them out.

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I don't know Totem... I'm NOT an IT person. I just know we have a problem in the area that I live ... and that someone is going to a great deal of trouble to ruin other people's fun with travel bugs. I'm sure Southern Maryland is not the ONLY area to ever have a TB thief... I think SOMETHING could be done to lessen the chances of them being able to FIND them. I don't see any REASON why we need to be able to FIND them... until we come across one in a cache. What is the POINT of being able to search them? Doesn't seem to me to really "benefit" anyone... but it sure makes it easier for the few dishonest people to mess with people. <_<

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Why is it that you feel you "SHOULD have come across about 20 TBs"?

I certainly wouldn't base that assumption because they were listed in cache inventory. If you check the cache inventories to find a trackable and DON'T read the logs for those listed as being there, you are going to do a lot of "wheel-spinnin'". Oh so many are not removed from the inventory as they should be. To blindly expect them to be there is, well... almost cartoonish.

I think this is a big part of the problem the OP is seeing. When I did some research a few months ago in my area, trying to find trackables with certain missions, I found that more than 90% of trackables listed in caches weren't actually there. There isn't a trackable thief in my area, it's just a combination of people not correctly logging them and TB and cache owners not marking them as missing. Most of them had been dropped in those caches years ago and have never resurfaced.

 

@ohmelli: Out of curiousity, could you go back to the cache pages where you expected to find these 20 TBs and make a list of the dates when they were dropped in their respective caches? If most were dropped years ago, then it's likely just people failing to log them correctly. If, however, most of them were dropped recently, then you very well may have a local TB thief.

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I don't see any REASON why we need to be able to FIND them... until we come across one in a cache. What is the POINT of being able to search them?

To help them with their goal. That's really the only reason you move trackables. Whenever I'm going traveling out-of-country, I'll browse through all the trackables in my area, looking for ones whose goal is to get to where I'm going.

 

Also, for those that don't have a smartphone, if they just stumbled upon a trackable in a cache that didn't have its goal attached to it, they'd have a hard time deciding whether to grab it. If they could view them on the cache page from home, they'd be able to make an informed decision.

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I don't know Totem... I'm NOT an IT person. I just know we have a problem in the area that I live ... and that someone is going to a great deal of trouble to ruin other people's fun with travel bugs. I'm sure Southern Maryland is not the ONLY area to ever have a TB thief... I think SOMETHING could be done to lessen the chances of them being able to FIND them. I don't see any REASON why we need to be able to FIND them... until we come across one in a cache. What is the POINT of being able to search them? Doesn't seem to me to really "benefit" anyone... but it sure makes it easier for the few dishonest people to mess with people. <_<

The only way I see to solve the problem from tech side is not have them list at all. That would defeat the whole purpose of TBs and coins.

I know it's frustrating as heck but it's nothing new. I've had TB that logged many miles. Others have gone poof right away. I had a cache in which a cacher placed over dozen TBs and coins, only to have it muggled the very next day. I've seen TBs go missing and show up over a year or two later half-way across the nation.

I don't think most of the missing coins and TBs are due to thieves. Many go missing because a cacher picks it up and forgets to log it and loses it, or a new cacher gets it and then quits caching. Many more are muggled. It's just the nature of the beast.

Sorry.

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A Team - I can (and will) go back and look at the dates that bugs were dropped... but I KNOW of the one's that I myself have personally handled that only ONE made it safely into someone else's hands... and that was in the first week or two that I was caching. Since then, every bug I've touched (with the exception of the two I'm holding) have gone missing. And THAT makes me feel HORRIBLE. I'm going to an event this weekend an hour and a half away JUST so I can pass these bugs on to someone else, in HOPE that they will go somewhere safe...

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Totem, I do understand the whole "muggled" thing... but it just seems sooooo weird that every cache I've put a TB in would be "muggled" within the next few days? Honestly... I didn't WANT to think we had a thief... but the more time I spend caching, the more that's what it's looking like... because either no one else has logged a visit... or if they have, they haven't SAID they took a TB (though they could have! I can hold HOPE for that on one or two of them), OR they HAVE said they looked for the TB but it wasn't there. [:(]

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I KNOW of the one's that I myself have personally handled that only ONE made it safely into someone else's hands... and that was in the first week or two that I was caching. Since then, every bug I've touched (with the exception of the two I'm holding) have gone missing.

I'm not seeing this:

Coco - Currently in a cache, you were the last to find the cache

Travel Bug Yellow Ducky - You dropped it in a cache, it was grabbed by someone else 5 days later

AMTG Virtual MOGA 2007 GC - You dropped it in a cache, it was grabbed by someone else 10 days later

Larry's Nomad Look Twice for Bikes Geocoin #4 - You dropped it in a cache, it was grabbed by someone else 3 days later

Saskatchewan 2008 Geocoin - Currently in a cache, you were the last to find the cache

Magellan CITO Travel tag - Another cacher mentioned it as not being in the listed cache

 

The last one is the only one that seems potentially "missing", but it has only been a month. I've had some of my trackables logged months after someone grabbed them. Until it has been missing for many, many months, it really isn't truly missing. I'm not sure why you have the impression that the other trackables have gone missing.

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I think part of the problem is one of the downsides to smartphone/android caching.

 

The availability of geocaching coordinates and apps on phones has led to a big increase in the number of people who have gone geocaching at some point in their lives. Many of the people who enter via phonecaching become good strong cachers, who are welcome additions to the geocaching world. However, I think that you also get dabblers, people who are not into geocaching so much as trying out what their new phones can do. These people may see TBs and geocoins in a cache they find, and under the "Hidden Treasures" idea, take them thinking they now belong to them. These dabblers are by definition not long-term cachers, and so may either never visit another cache where they can drop off the traveler, or never be into it enough to check out the website explaining what a traveler is, and why they are important to other cachers. As such, they get removed from the caching world.

 

I'm no old-timer, having just passed my fourth anniversary of caching, but I've noticed a severe drop in the number of travelers seen in the wild in the past 18 months or so.

 

And to be clear, I'm not saying people who use smartphones for caching are bad. I'm saying that smartphones allow a lot more people who aren't serious to dip their toes into the pool, and disappearing travelers is an effect of that. Overall, I think the advantages to phonecaching outweigh the disadvantages (to geocaching as a whole), but this is a disadvantage. And that's just my opinion, I have no data to back that up.

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Yellow Ducky is the one I was thinking of... I forgot about the bike bug, and I missed checking AMTG - you're right! However, you MISSED that Eggstravagant has gone missing. PLUS the ones my granddaughter has handled on her account. (which had the most impressive sword coin)...

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Rosebud55112 - I probably have to agree with all of what you say... even though I started as a phone cacher, and though I now have a handheld GPSr I still prefer my phone for finding. It seems to be more user friendly in MOST areas. There are times when I'm very glad to have my Magellan GC though! I just find it very sad that this is an "issue"...

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However, you MISSED that Eggstravagant has gone missing.

No, I didn't miss it, I just didn't mention it. It is still possible that it was grabbed by someone and just not logged (it has only been a few weeks), but you may be correct that it has been stolen. It's an unfortunate fact that geocoins (especially beautiful or unique ones) tend to go missing far more often than TBs. It's so bad that I've stopped releasing coins into the wild. Luckily, I've only got one coin missing (out of 3 total), and that may be due to a cache being muggled.

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One thing that greatly facilitates the moving of travel bugs and geocoins are caches large enough and of sufficient quality to house them. Over the past weekend I drove about 400 miles and found only three caches capable of putting a trackable in. I was rather unhappy as I have several I'm really trying to get to new caches, but the plethora of pill bottle/preform/used cosmetics containers really are a nuisance.

 

Won't you please help the trackables move by placing better caches?

 

:ph34r:

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Trackables that go "missing" is not a new problem, and I'm pretty sure it predates "phone caching".

 

Check out the pages of discussions from years ago on the forums dedicated to travel bugs and geocoins.

 

 

 

B.

 

I didn't claim that it is a new problem or that it began when phone caching began, merely that I've seen a huge reduction in trackables in the wild lately, and that I think there's a reasonable connection that may be drawn, although I have no backup data.

 

I am happy to state that of the two caches I found today which were big enough to hold trackables, one of them did have a TB in it.

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About a month ago, I was going out of town so I did a trackables PQ to see if I could find any that would enjoy the road trip. I read the pages of all the trackables said to be located in the nearby area and so many of them were logged as missing :( I'd be willing to bet this is mostly due to a combination of fly-by-night app cachers and people who use caching as therapy for their frontal lobe injuries.

 

My grand-daughter's TB was "grabbed" (as opposed to "retrieved") from the first cache I placed it in. It has been in this cacher's posession less than a month, but it is the error in logging that sends up a red flag for me. If a cacher doesn't understand how to log a trackable properly, what will become of it?

 

And I always feel terrible when a trackable I've dropped in a cache then goes missing. I know it's not my fault, but I become attached to their journey (we always take pictures and write logs). Oh how I mourn for that poor Canada coin!

 

However - back on topic - I'm not sure what I think about not being able to search for trackables. At this point, with the pitiful results I had from my last search, I don't see that it would make much of a difference. I'm not sold on the idea of travel bug thieves (now geocoins are another matter!) but if they are searching online, they are going to have as much luck as we do.

 

I hear your frustration ohmelli, I truly do, but for several reasons I believe that the trackable adventures in geocaching are quickly going to become personal mileage tokens.

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Won't you please help the trackables move by placing better caches?

 

:ph34r:

LOL! I'm actually working on THAT myself! I finally got permission today to place my FIRST cache... and that's a whole 'nuther story... I'll be begging help with figuring out how to coordinate with other caches in the vicinity later... but my 2nd cache is going to be a LARGE! And it's NOT going to be EASY to get too! (not tooooooo hard... but NOT EASY!) I did find out today that HIDING a cache is MUCH HARDER than finding one! :laughing: Picking "the perfect spot" is hardest of all!

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About a month ago, I was going out of town so I did a trackables PQ to see if I could find any that would enjoy the road trip. I read the pages of all the trackables said to be located in the nearby area and so many of them were logged as missing :( I'd be willing to bet this is mostly due to a combination of fly-by-night app cachers and people who use caching as therapy for their frontal lobe injuries.

 

My grand-daughter's TB was "grabbed" (as opposed to "retrieved") from the first cache I placed it in. It has been in this cacher's posession less than a month, but it is the error in logging that sends up a red flag for me. If a cacher doesn't understand how to log a trackable properly, what will become of it?

 

And I always feel terrible when a trackable I've dropped in a cache then goes missing. I know it's not my fault, but I become attached to their journey (we always take pictures and write logs). Oh how I mourn for that poor Canada coin!

 

However - back on topic - I'm not sure what I think about not being able to search for trackables. At this point, with the pitiful results I had from my last search, I don't see that it would make much of a difference. I'm not sold on the idea of travel bug thieves (now geocoins are another matter!) but if they are searching online, they are going to have as much luck as we do.

 

I hear your frustration ohmelli, I truly do, but for several reasons I believe that the trackable adventures in geocaching are quickly going to become personal mileage tokens.

 

That's exactly how I feel... and it breaks my heart. :( I was SO excited about TB's when I started... and only 2 months in to this game, I'm already disheartened with the TB situation. But you all may be right... maybe it's NOT a thief... maybe it's just STUPID (ignorant? uninformed? lazy?) people ... but I'd ALMOST rather think ONE thief than a BUNCH of dummies! :lol:

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Just saw this over in the Travel Bug forum. This little guy was out and about for nine years! There is always hope!

 

DUDE-lebug

 

dudlebug1.jpg

Awwwwww.... DUDE-lebug is AWESOME! I'm so glad he was a successful little bug! He DOES give me hope... I HOPE that the sword and my Eggy EVENTUALLY do show up again. I would JUMP for JOY!

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The best we can do for the trackables in our possession (and their owners) is to give them a wonderful experience while we can. Life is short, the life of a traveller is even shorter - live it to the fullest!

 

Travellers on a coffee break!

 

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: I LOVE that philosophy 6NH! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

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hmmm... I've never noticed travel bugs being stolen in MD, but i never really looked for it either. I did once grab a TB that was NOT listed in the inventory. When I went to log it the records indicated it was in the posession of another cacher. I recorded it as a hand exchange,and mentioned in the text of my log that I had actually retreived it from cache GCxxxx. Got a nice PM from the former holder who just needed a lesson on how to record a drop. I always record my travel bug movements, including visits. Not everyone is as consciencious. It is quite likely that the bugs presently shown in the inventory of cache XXX actually went missing quite some time ago and just never were moved by the CO to an unknown location. There is also cases where bugs that go quiet for years suddenly reappear in the game. Go figure.

Edited by ras_oscar
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hmmm... I've never noticed travel bugs being stolen in MD, but i never really looked for it either.

 

:laughing: Ras_Oscar, I didn't look over all 2 thousand some odd of your finds, so maybe you HAVE been down my way -- but Boonsboro, Hagerstown & Frederick are a FAR CRY from "Southern Maryland"!!! :laughing: I'm talking Calvert County, eastern Charles County, northern St. Mary's County... I've not noticed it in PG or Anne Arundel counties. (and only in the last few weeks)

Edited by ohmelli
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There is also cases where bugs that go quiet for years suddenly reappear in the game.

I came upon one of these recently. It was dropped in a cache nearly 4 years earlier, then disappeared. 3 years later, a cacher found it in another cache not far away, physically retrieved it, but only logged it as "Discovered". They then proceeded to hang onto it for another year until they dropped it in a new cache, again without logging it in. I was a bit surprised when I got FTF and found this guy sitting in there. At least it's back in circulation now.

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I just had one of mine reappear. I placed it in a cache last July and it went missing immediately. No log, nothing. Then just a week or so ago, I got a log notice that someone had found a "bag" of trackables that someone had lost or left behind. The people that found the bag, sent out log notices that they had them and would be putting them out in the near future.

I also have a coin that went missing in Michigan after a couple hops, again no log. It resurfaced in Florida just after Christmas when someone posted a log that they had grabbed all the coins that their sister had been hoarding and were going to be putting them back out in circulation. But alas, they have not released my coin yet. They have been actively caching all winter and going to caches large enough to put it in. I'll just be patient and hope that they do release it soon.

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I am a fairly new cacher and love TB's. I put our first one out a few weeks ago and it was picked up the first day. Now it appears it may be in the hands of a kidnapper ! Picked it up and is not moving it along...........Going to write them a message after three weeks and ask them to return it to the cache

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I was going to write something crabby, but decided not too. Ok, ok...I think you have to give some trackables time, and the OP hasn't been here all that long. (Case in point: me. I got all excited about the game, but no one would go hiking with me. When I started I had a little guy who was too small for the bush whacking needed for the caches I was finding. My oldest (and my husband) could handle the hike but found it pointless. So I dropped the hobby for a while. I'm back now because I decided to go own my own while the little dude is in pre-school. I think one bug went missing when my kid latched onto it and then didn't want to go looking for more caches with me. I'm making a point of looking in every dark corner of the house until I find that bug and get him back in the wild.)

 

BUT to add something constructive to the conversation....http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=64691&st=0 Read the tips in the first part of this other thread. There's good advice here for anyone thinking about releasing a bug into the wild.

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I feel like I've said this before, and I will definitely say it again.

I don't think the main issue is with theives, but rather people who don't get it. Groundspeak should just be more aggressive in explaining TBs the moment people sign up.

 

I agree. When I signed up, I had no clue what any of this stuff was and had to do a lot of searching to find out the "rules". It would be great if when you signed up, you had to read through important info and maybe even take a little "quiz" to ensure you have read it? That may help with people understanding what to do before they are out in the wild. And it might help weed out the more... "destructive" applicants.

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