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Hassled by police


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On 11 April, I revisited a multi cache That I had struggled with before, and as a result, I got a surprise visit. Thirty five catchers had found it before me, and the person who hid the cache, can actually see the site in question from his window. There were a few other walkers near, and I nodded and said hello, but they seemed to pay me no heed. That evening though, after going to the wrong address, the police showed up and demanded to know if I was taking pictures. Since when is it a crime to take a picture of a bridge, a river and a few bare trees anyway but, no I said I was simply geocaching which I am pretty sure is not against the law I then had to take a long time to explain what I was actually doing and surely, I asked again why the enquiry as I was not doing anything illegal, can I not go about my business without being asked to explain myself all the time. I was not happy with the explanation so I contacted the sergeant from the office concerned. She listened patiently to my rant then looked up the incident and whether it had been updated. She came back and gave me the real reason for the hassle. A complaint was received because I was sitting in my car in a suspicious manner? Why did the complaint specifically target me and not the other car parked behind me in this free car park next to a public park. I went on to ask that now when a disabled driver, who displayed a 'blue badge' denoting my condition, in a totally unregulated parking area just simply sitting there; is this now a crime? No, it was just that you looked suspicious. How can I look like anything else but suspicious? By what criteria is this judged? The driver of the other car surely looked more so than I but you never thought to ask why he was parking there? I cannot accept that they have never heard of this pastime and common sense could prevail. Why do they have to get all heavy when we are just exercising our right to do our hobby. Have the police got nothing better to do? I warned them that I am going back there soon, to bag a few more, and I don't expect to hear of a repeat of this nonsense. Watch this space.

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You weren't hassled by the police because you were looking for a cache, you were questioned by the police because someone felt your actions were suspicious. In this case sitting alone in your car next to park. There is nothing to say that the other person in their car wasn't questioned as well. the police wouldn't share that information with you.

 

I work in security within a large university campus. I trust my instincts all the time, which are just suspicions. 95% of the time I find that my instincts are wrong and after a quick friendly chat the person carries on about their business. But I can assure that I do come across individuals that either get escorted off the campus or we end up requesting police assistance, and that is just due to initial instincts proving to achieve a result.

 

Suspicious people aren't judged by any sort of criteria, it is just what an individual thinks isn't normal actions for such a situation or place. It doesn't mean you have committed a crime, but if the police ignored all reports of suspicious incidents, I would suspect the crime levels would probably be double.

 

The poor police, damned if they do and damned if they don't!!

 

Anyway that's my tuppence worth.

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You weren't hassled by the police because you were looking for a cache, you were questioned by the police because someone felt your actions were suspicious. In this case sitting alone in your car next to park. There is nothing to say that the other person in their car wasn't questioned as well. the police wouldn't share that information with you.

 

I work in security within a large university campus. I trust my instincts all the time, which are just suspicions. 95% of the time I find that my instincts are wrong and after a quick friendly chat the person carries on about their business. But I can assure that I do come across individuals that either get escorted off the campus or we end up requesting police assistance, and that is just due to initial instincts proving to achieve a result.

 

Suspicious people aren't judged by any sort of criteria, it is just what an individual thinks isn't normal actions for such a situation or place. It doesn't mean you have committed a crime, but if the police ignored all reports of suspicious incidents, I would suspect the crime levels would probably be double.

 

The poor police, damned if they do and damned if they don't!!

 

Anyway that's my tuppence worth.

Couldn’t have said it better myself HH.

You aren’t on your own with this kind of incident and there are many cachers (including us) who have been questioned by police, security or some other kind of official. It may surprise you to learn that Geocaching isn’t as well known as you might think. Only this morning on Radio 2 (other stations are available), there was a discussion about our hobby and the presenter called us 'Catchers' and said, 'Geo what’?

Don’t let this incident put you off or upset you. The police were simply doing their job and there was no harm done at the end of the day.

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A member of the public reported you as possibly being suspicious because you were parked in your car netx to a park.

You then ask how a disabled person sitting in a car, displaying a blue badge, next to a park, can be considered suspicious. Is there now something in the disability act that says all disabled people are perfecty innocent at all times and in all circumstances.

My next statement is not meant to offend so please do not take it as such.

During my time in my previous career I can honestly say that there were a good percentage of disabled people that had been found guilty of various crimes.

As a previous poster has said 'The Police are damned if they do and damned if they don't' If somebody reports a suspicious person in the vicinity of a park then I would expect them to act as who knows that suspicious person could be a real bad person and return to do something worse than sitting in their car. The police would be really castigated in that case.

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Acting suspicious is the one and only reason MOH will NOT go out caching!

 

When I first started out caching he came with me and watched from a distance, after finding and replacing the cache he said: 'Do you know what you look like? You look like you are up to something ..... it's not for me!

 

He will come on long walks with me & the dog, walking ahead while i search for the cache but he will never be anywhere near me when there are muggles about.

He knows one day i will be confronted by the police and he doesn't want to be there when i do.

 

I used to like urban caching, now I don't as I too feel like: 'I'm up to something'.

 

As another poster said: There are far more people who don't know anything at all about geocaching compared to those that do.

The police are only doing their job. :ph34r:

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Interesting that this was posted at the same time that a muggle posted to explain why she had reported a cacher to the police for looking suspicious, so we got both sides of two different stories. As others have said the Police have had something reported to them and they have to look into it, and it's difficult to know what aroused the muggle's suspicion.

 

At the end of the day they didn't batter your door down, or drag you off to the station and bang you up, so accept what happened and go out to find another tupperware box, at least now there are 2 more coppers out there who know about that cache and cachers so next time there's a report they might be able to reassure the muggle without the need to investigate.

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The most suspicious acting I've seen recently was by Nicolas Cage.

 

I'm sorry the OP had a bad experience, but the police are pretty much duty-bound to investigate every random complaint in case it 'leads somewhere' so I hope they don't take it personally. Paranoia is pretty rife these days (thanks pervs, terrorists and Daily Mail feature writers) and at least no one got hurt. Best thing in this situation is to get a t-shirt printed up; 'I am not acting suspiciously, I'm geocaching' - Actually... Watch the Geolympix website for an addition soon :)

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Hmmm...

I'd have hoped that the police don't waste their time like this too often. Perhaps we've only been told part of the story here, but I'm surprised that so many people seem to agree that sitting in your car in a car park is "suspicious". Surely the police should have questioned the complainant further before allocating manpower to this "incident".

 

Complainant: I'm phoning to let you know that there's someone sitting in a car in the car park.

Police sergeant: ...and?

Complainant: Well, it seems suspicious to me.

Police sergeant: Why? What's he doing apart from sitting?

Complainant: Nothing, just sitting there. That's what's so suspicious.

Police sergeant: Thanks for your concern. Please let us know if anything happens.

 

I was sitting in my car in a car park only yesterday, before setting off again after a cache (I had a drink of water and a banana, then listened to the radio for a few minutes).

Luckily, the police weren't called to this incident and I got off scot free.

 

Just round the corner from this leafy park I drove past a burning van in a bank's car park, narrowly missing an escaping Vauxhall (admittedly I didn't see the car, but I must have missed it by seconds). Hopefully the police were fully occupied in chasing the robbers and weren't too busy with doorstep interviews of people accused of sitting in cars...

 

Interesting that this was posted at the same time that a muggle posted to explain why she had reported a cacher to the police for looking suspicious, so we got both sides of two different stories. As others have said the Police have had something reported to them and they have to look into it, and it's difficult to know what aroused the muggle's suspicion.

But the incident you mentioned involved someone apparently with blood on them, trying to open a drain cover when standing in a river. Rather different from "sitting in a car".

Edited by Happy Humphrey
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But the incident you mentioned involved someone apparently with blood on them, trying to open a drain cover when standing in a river. Rather different from "sitting in a car".

 

That's the point of me mentioning it, we don't know what the muggle in this case saw (or thought they saw); we only know the picture from Bluescorpious's point of view.

 

As you said I wouldn't expect the police to respond to a report of someone sitting in a car in a car park, so I would expect there was more to the report than that.

 

Remember that TV ad for one of the papers that seemed to show a punk mugging an old lady, but from the other viewpoint he was saving her from something falling out of a window? There's no point coming over all judgemental when you've only got the story from one POV.

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I did say "Perhaps we've only been told part of the story here", but the other posts are only going on the same evidence and are keen to assume that the OP is fibbing when he says that the police told him the reason for questioning;

 

A complaint was received because I was sitting in my car in a suspicious manner?

 

But I don't see any reason to doubt this statement (as we have nothing else).

So you seem to agree with me that the police were heavy-handed. Or at least that they were economical with the truth when asked for an explanation.

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Hmmm...

I'd have hoped that the police don't waste their time like this too often.

I hope they do. I think people don't realise that a lot of serious incidents get prevented from the person who reports what appears to be some sort of silly suspicion.

 

The amount of times criminals have got away in my work place mainly due to the fact that someone didn't want to embarrass themselves by reporting the person that just didn't quite fit in, is unbelievable. In fact it happens that more people don't report suspicious activity than what do report. Within my job we find this quite frustrating as a lot more crime could be prevented or caught if they had just picked up the phone. I suspect that it is the same for the police?

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Don't fit in? Yes, perhaps they ought to be reported. But you're arguing that someone sitting in a car in a car park "doesn't fit in" or is "suspicious".

If everyone reported such things then the police would be overwhelmed. Have you really never sat in a stationary car for a while? Is it so unusual?

 

My point is NOT that suspicious behaviour shouldn't be checked. Not at all. Person covered in blood standing in river trying to unscrew drains? Fair enough, let the police know. Odd person wandering around office and evading questions? Call security.

 

Person sitting in car minding own business? Leave them alone.

 

But your argument is that, even if it's behaviour that isn't obviously suspicious (such as, sitting in a car): then there should be some enquiries made if someone reports it.

 

I'm afraid I was more sympathetic until the whole "photographer = terrorist" attitude appeared a few years ago, which seemed to spring out of an increasing and unhealthy paranoia and unearthed a whole underclass of wannabe Secret Police. It's time we had a "common sense v. paranoia" campaign and got things back in perspective.

 

Anyway, rant over; I'm merely saying that on the face of it the OP might have had a point!

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Hmmm...

I'd have hoped that the police don't waste their time like this too often. Perhaps we've only been told part of the story here, but I'm surprised that so many people seem to agree that sitting in your car in a car park is "suspicious". Surely the police should have questioned the complainant further before allocating manpower to this "incident".

I think you will find that the probable reason for the 'suspicious' bit is maybe down to this part of the OP's post

Why did the complaint specifically target me and not the other car parked behind me in this free car park next to a public park.

 

There are children's playgrounds in public parks and in this day and age if somebody is seen, what another person has viewed as, acting in a suspicious manner, the police are duty bound to investigate.

 

My views, Get over it, these things happen.

Maybe you would rather that the police ignore all such phone calls and be done with it.

If the police want stop me and ask me questions no probs, I have nothing to hide and I for one actually admire them for the cr@p job they sometimes have to do, there are people that will moan at them for doing their job but are then the first to scream if they don't do it when it concerns them.

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.... Person sitting in car minding own business? Leave them alone....

 

Sounds simple enough. I also don't think I'm bothering anyone by just siting in my car.

 

But then you find out there has been occasional gunfire in that lot. At another lot you find out there was a nearby home invasion recently. Who knew? And those are just the times I got a little insight into the citizens/officers concerns. The places seemed safe enough to me, and I was just sitting in a car " minding my own business". But when the neighbors have "a heightened sense of anxiety", all bets are off. They call (probably speed dial). Be prepared to have a LEO conversation (and telling the truth speeds up the process immensely). That's the new normal, and you can't turn the clock back.

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Hmmm...

I'd have hoped that the police don't waste their time like this too often. Perhaps we've only been told part of the story here, but I'm surprised that so many people seem to agree that sitting in your car in a car park is "suspicious". Surely the police should have questioned the complainant further before allocating manpower to this "incident".

 

Complainant: I'm phoning to let you know that there's someone sitting in a car in the car park.

Police sergeant: ...and?

Complainant: Well, it seems suspicious to me.

Police sergeant: Why? What's he doing apart from sitting?

Complainant: Nothing, just sitting there. That's what's so suspicious.

Police sergeant: Thanks for your concern. Please let us know if anything happens.

 

It does seem odd what the police will accept as "suspicious" at times. I reported a van stopped in our road with the engine idling for about 20 minutes in the middle of the night (and I mean literally, at around midnight). They didn't seem overly concerned about it.

 

I've been stopped by the police twice when geocaching. Once was with one caching buddy - we were both on our bikes wearing hi-vis jackets. The police asked what we were doing so we explained geocaching to them. They asked why we were wearing hi-vis jackets so we said we wanted to be visible on our bikes. They asked if we'd seen anything out of the ordinary, which we hadn't. Then they went on their way and were obviously looking for something specific.

 

The other time was quite funny, there were four of us preparing to find a cache hidden under a tunnel with a river flowing through it, one person was standing in the river and we were handing lights up and down the bank. WHen a policeman approached on his bike there really wasn't any point acting all nonchalent but he just asked what we were doing, listened to our explanation, then wished us happy hunting and left us to it.

 

I imagine we do still have the legal right to respond to their questions with "---- off, copper" but I figure if I'm not doing anything unlawful there's no point responding in a way that suggests I am up to no good.

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What happened to the OP is unfortunate and may have been unpleasant but as has been said, we perhaps aren't versed with all the details into why the police got involved.

 

Police intervention/investigation into a potential crime vs Police ignoring and doing nothing......

 

I know which one Id prefer, every time and this comes from someone who has been on the receiving end of a police probe (I didn't feel a thing either) .

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Person sitting in car minding own business? Leave them alone.

Like I have previously said I work in a large university campus. We use a vehicle to carry out mobile patrols. we have parking for over 2,000 vehicles, which get full on a daily basis. I see people sat in their cars every day, and most of the time I leave them to themselves. Then there are the times that something just says, nope that just isn't right. In security work (I expect the police are the same) you can't explain that feeling, it's just gut instinct that something is wrong. Sure enough at least 40-50% of the time the person in the vehicle can't give an explanation for why they are there. Sure enough you ask them to move on and leave the campus, and usually they do.

 

Now why would someone who is just sitting in their car with nothing to hide and is doing nothing wrong, move on freely from a public accessible campus? Usually it's due to not being up to much good and they are leaving before you step up the anti and start taking down details for the police to follow up on.

 

What the OP hasn't stated is what he was either doing or 'could' be construed* as doing in the car!

 

I would have thought for the police to follow it up, the person reporting it had good reason to.

 

For the record I am NOT arguing that a person who is just sat in a car looks suspicious. But I am saying that there can be little things that most of the population will miss yet that one person will see and just be worried about what 'may' be going on.

 

*Something I doubt the OP may have even thought about.

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.... Person sitting in car minding own business? Leave them alone....

 

Sounds simple enough. I also don't think I'm bothering anyone by just siting in my car.

 

But then you find out there has been occasional gunfire in that lot. At another lot you find out there was a nearby home invasion recently. Who knew? And those are just the times I got a little insight into the citizens/officers concerns. The places seemed safe enough to me, and I was just sitting in a car " minding my own business". But when the neighbors have "a heightened sense of anxiety", all bets are off. They call (probably speed dial). Be prepared to have a LEO conversation (and telling the truth speeds up the process immensely). That's the new normal, and you can't turn the clock back.

I know. But as with Dr. Dick above, you're adding conjecture that there was some unknown circumstance involved.

Perhaps there is occasional gunfire in that small Scottish village and most residents are jumpy because of all the murders, but the OP happens to have missed out on that news. I don't know.

 

As the "extra circumstances" is purely speculation and has no basis in anything we've heard about the non-incident, I take it that you're agreeing with me that the police response was over the top. Because why else would you feel the need to assume that there was more to it than meets the eye?

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For the record I am NOT arguing that a person who is just sat in a car looks suspicious.

But that's exactly what you ARE arguing. We have been told that it's exactly what happened, so it's no use making up some other circumstances to make it sound justifiable.

 

I agree that if he was looking at the nearby houses with binoculars and making notes, then checking a crowbar and a revolver, trying on a couple of masks perhaps, then the response would have been more than justified. But I really don't see how you know that it was the sort of thing going on. Not unless you're saying "I agree with you, that this seems unjustifiable, so there MUST have been something else that we don't know about". If there was, surely the police wouldn't have said "You were sitting in a car", they'd have explained what caused them concern.

But perhaps it's for the OP to explain further and reduce the need for speculation.

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What happened to the OP is unfortunate and may have been unpleasant but as has been said, we perhaps aren't versed with all the details into why the police got involved.

 

Police intervention/investigation into a potential crime vs Police ignoring and doing nothing......

 

I know which one Id prefer, every time and this comes from someone who has been on the receiving end of a police probe (I didn't feel a thing either) .

Point is though...what potential crime? Car sitting?

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What a load of baloney!

 

What's so special about you that the police shouldn't follow through a complaint / concern from a member of the public?

 

I am concerned after reading your log that you feel as a disabled person you deserve some special dispensation from being questioned? Err, why?

 

Clearly, at some point, a member of the public was concerned, ok, in this case, they got it wrong, but I wouldn't want to discourage people from reporting what they perceive as being suspicious behaviour.

 

I've been stopped and followed by police several times in my geocache career and have never felt it a threat nor felt offended, they're merely doing their job! Live and let live I say.

Edited by Dorsetgal & GeoDog
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Because why else would you feel the need to assume that there was more to it than meets the eye?

 

Well for a start I doubt that the coppers involved would go to the whole trouble of looking up the car in the PNC, then driving round to the owners house for a chat just because they had a single report about someone sitting in a car in a car park. The fact that they only asked the cacher what he was doing there and then left without any in depth questioning suggests to me that they felt there was nothing to it all along.

 

I think there was an over reaction here, but it was probably on the part of the muggle (or muggles) who reported the 'incident' and not on the part of the coppers who were just doing their job.

 

The difference with the Photographers a few years ago was that in those cases some individual police officers (and PCSOs) were shown to be lying to members of the public and preventing them going about their lawful business, whereas here there was no attempt to prevent the OP sitting in cars whenever he feels like it.

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Point is though...what potential crime? Car sitting?

 

Well according to the OP there were 2 people in 2 cars sitting there for an extended period of time : Drug deal, Dogging :ph34r:

 

Also the OP was sat there for a long time adjacent to a local park/sports field, then got out went around taking pictures : I'll leave you to make up your own mind how some people might interpret that particularly if there are kids in the park :ph34r:

 

Depending on how it was phrased to the cops, and what detail they were given it's not difficult to see how they might feel they need to investigate. Having done so and been quickly re-assured by the OP that he's a fine upstanding citizen I doubt they'd come out with "well the old dear in the flat thought you looked like a perv".

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Point is though...what potential crime? Car sitting?

 

Well according to the OP there were 2 people in 2 cars sitting there for an extended period of time : Drug deal, Dogging :ph34r:

 

Also the OP was sat there for a long time adjacent to a local park/sports field, then got out went around taking pictures : I'll leave you to make up your own mind how some people might interpret that particularly if there are kids in the park :ph34r:

 

Depending on how it was phrased to the cops, and what detail they were given it's not difficult to see how they might feel they need to investigate. Having done so and been quickly re-assured by the OP that he's a fine upstanding citizen I doubt they'd come out with "well the old dear in the flat thought you looked like a perv".

Well, I feel sorry if the country (and Scotland) has come to this. Sad days indeed. Personally I haven't the faintest idea how someone would interpret photography of kids in a playground (and I don't want to know!). At least my local cache-related crime turned out to be nothing more sinsister than a good old-fashioned bank robbery with violence and getaway cars, not all this serious stuff!

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HH, hopefully you will have gleamed from my signature what I spent 25yrs of my life doing. During that time I had a period where I had to interview those that I 'looked after' on a very special wing. During many of these interviews it was often mentioned and talked about how they would take photos in parks whilst deciding who to pick for their attentions. These were under 21's and later in my career I had the same conversations with adults of all ages.

 

If their are good honest citizens who are prepared to report possible suspicious people to the police then good for them.

I have done it and will do it again (4 reports and only 1 wrong.

If people have any objections to public spirited people doing the right thing then shame on you and I hope that somebody does not ignore something that results in an offence being committed.

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You weren't hassled by the police because you were looking for a cache, you were questioned by the police because someone felt your actions were suspicious. In this case sitting alone in your car next to park. There is nothing to say that the other person in their car wasn't questioned as well. the police wouldn't share that information with you.

 

I work in security within a large university campus. I trust my instincts all the time, which are just suspicions. 95% of the time I find that my instincts are wrong and after a quick friendly chat the person carries on about their business. But I can assure that I do come across individuals that either get escorted off the campus or we end up requesting police assistance, and that is just due to initial instincts proving to achieve a result.

 

Suspicious people aren't judged by any sort of criteria, it is just what an individual thinks isn't normal actions for such a situation or place. It doesn't mean you have committed a crime, but if the police ignored all reports of suspicious incidents, I would suspect the crime levels would probably be double.

 

The poor police, damned if they do and damned if they don't!!

 

Anyway that's my tuppence worth.

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You weren't hassled by the police because you were looking for a cache, you were questioned by the police because someone felt your actions were suspicious. In this case sitting alone in your car next to park. There is nothing to say that the other person in their car wasn't questioned as well. the police wouldn't share that information with you.

 

I work in security within a large university campus. I trust my instincts all the time, which are just suspicions. 95% of the time I find that my instincts are wrong and after a quick friendly chat the person carries on about their business. But I can assure that I do come across individuals that either get escorted off the campus or we end up requesting police assistance, and that is just due to initial instincts proving to achieve a result.

 

Suspicious people aren't judged by any sort of criteria, it is just what an individual thinks isn't normal actions for such a situation or place. It doesn't mean you have committed a crime, but if the police ignored all reports of suspicious incidents, I would suspect the crime levels would probably be double.

 

The poor police, damned if they do and damned if they don't!!

 

Anyway that's my tuppence worth.

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I wish to clarify a few points as some posters are missing the big story here. Nobody at any time approached me while I was sitting in a 'suspicious' manner. If they had, I could explain and then they go away better informed. While I was there, apart from the other car, there was nobody in the park, or the parking area, the road,the far distance or even on the river! The other car was just a coincidence he seemed like a travelling salesman type, who just happened to know of a quite area to have some lunch. He, by coincidence, pulled into the area a minute or so before me I mentioned I was disabled, but not to garner any sympathy or special dispensation. The point that should have been obvious was thus. Some disabled people like me are sometimes in a lot of pain and get tired. All I needed was a short rest of about ten minutes. Is that too much to ask! Does society grudge me that now! Should I just stand outside the car instead? I have used that parking area before, just like the locals and strangers alike with no problems. I even stayed near there for about thirteen years and nothing like this ever occurred. The police did do a PNC check and the result must have said to them that the car was registered to Motability Operations. That should have rang a bell that says perhaps the driver was disabled and just needed to sit there for a while. It would appear that this never occurred to them. I spoke to a sergeant for clarification so that if I knew what I was supposed to be doing wrong, then I could avoid it in the future all she would say was that I was sitting in my car in a suspicious manner. The 'caller' took the time to copy my registration number but did not think that my blue badge, clearly displayed, meant anything. The police also admit that they never bothered to ask what the other car driver was doing either. I ask again, why was I judged by that caller to be suspicious but not the other car? Logically, I cannot be acting suspicious when there was nobody in my eyeline to even see me resting there. Another reason to be angry is the initial approach by two officers who managed to go and knock on the wrong door!! It was early evening, clear and each letterbox have very large numbers. All my neighbours know of this visit now and are currently speculating what crime was involved. These officers did not even seem to know what the accusation was as they were asking was I in Pitcairngreen that morning. No I said, I was at Pitcairn, an area of Almonbank, in the afternoon. There is only about a two and a half mile difference of location. I did have to explain what geocaching is but they stated that thy really do know as several from their office do likewise. So, if I needed a rest for a few minutes and chose to locate in a parking area rather than park on the narrow roads round about, and there was nobody in the all purpose park to act suspicious too, what is the problem? Should I be worried with their swift action, after all one poster says their dammed if they do and dammed if they don't. Well, put it like this as just a little perspective. They acted quick enough although and it turned out that there was no substance to the allegation. Fair enough you say. Except, I hear that they are so stretched for resources and it is actually difficult to cope with the real crime - maybe, perhaps. Where I stay though, is in the grip of a major crime wave, and a lot of vulnerable people (like me for instance) are worried, and even dread leaving the doors. Yet after six months of fear of where will the next occurrence be, or will there be another murder, or who will be attacked next, the police are no further forward than the very first incident. If resources are scarce, should they be allocated where it would do the most good instead of hassling geocachers. Debate and rebuttal?

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HH, hopefully you will have gleamed from my signature what I spent 25yrs of my life doing. During that time I had a period where I had to interview those that I 'looked after' on a very special wing. During many of these interviews it was often mentioned and talked about how they would take photos in parks whilst deciding who to pick for their attentions. These were under 21's and later in my career I had the same conversations with adults of all ages.

 

If their are good honest citizens who are prepared to report possible suspicious people to the police then good for them.

I have done it and will do it again (4 reports and only 1 wrong.

If people have any objections to public spirited people doing the right thing then shame on you and I hope that somebody does not ignore something that results in an offence being committed.

Well, I didn't want to know that; but thanks for the clarification. Anyway, as Bluescorpius has explained in detail, there was no question about him being accused of the offence of taking photographs (ulterior motive or not). It was entirely because he was sitting in a car, which seems to have been assumed to be suspicious.

 

My whole point, which I've attempted to make clear several times, was not about whether it's a good or bad thing for public-spirited (or even nosey) people to report suspicious activity. I'm fully in favour of that, even if it turns out that the activity was innocent. Can I make that quite clear, as it seems to be ignored constantly. My point was whether reporting (and taking action against) normal behaviour should be encouraged.

 

If you want to argue against the OP, it has to be entirely on the point that simply sitting in a car for ten minutes having a rest IS suspicious and worthy of police action. There appears to be none of the extra circumstances that people are assuming.

 

As I said above, I'm not against suspicious behaviour being reported. But those eagle-eyed neighbours are just as capable as the people on this thread of assuming the worst, so just imagine what they were saying to each other when the police turned up to question the OP! No harm done?

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There are bad people out there, wake up and smell the coffee. The police can't pool all their resources to just being reactive, which is what HH & Bluescorpius want to see happen. They have to be proactive and prevent crimes. One of the best ways to prevent crimes is to act on reports of suspicious behaviour.

 

Geocaching is inherently a suspicious behaviour to those who don't know what you are doing. I know I have been stopped several times, by police, security and management of sites. Bluescorpius states that he was caching at the time. Now take away the fact that we know what caching is. Now look at the scenario that he has lurked about in a park rooting about looking for something, and then waited in his car for 10 minutes. If that isn't suspicious activity then what is?

 

Question for Bluescorpius, If you thought someone was up to no good, would you go and ask them what they are doing whilst on your own? Would walk up to the front of their car, close enough to be able to see the disable badge in the window, and then for them to see you inspecting their details? As this is what you obviously expected to happen in your case.

If a person thinks it's worth reporting to the police, then they think it may be dangerous. After all that is what the police get paid to do.

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Well said Haggis Hunter, I think that some people really need to get over themselves.

 

As for the blue badge, I still fail to understand what significance this has at all, do disabled people not commit crime? Actually I know the answer to this as my cousin with cerebral palsy was on 1st name terms with all all the local police and often found himself with free bed and board for the night.

 

For gods sake, what harm has been done, you were asked a few questions and the police went away happy, were you arrested, cross examined, locked away? On the other hand had you been a criminal a crime may have been prevented. You don't know what problems the locals may have been suffering, eg the hall next to where I assume you were parked may have suffered vandalism or break-ins recently.

Edited by Mad H@ter
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HH, now that the FULL facts have been disclosed I still feel that the police were justified in investigating a valid complaint/suspicion.

 

My last comment, some of the peolpe I referred to were nice old grandad types, disabled people, 18yr old lads. There is no set description of those kind of people. In this day and age, as sad as it may be, there is no taking chances.

Unlike many of you I do believe and know that there are some very nasty people out there. :ph34r:

Edited by DrDick&Vick
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OK, I accept that sitting in a car is suspicious and I'll call 999 every time I see it (note that the OP was NOT geocaching, just sitting, and I don't have the number for the local plod so it'll have to be 999). Shame, I've already missed three opportunities this morning!

Like you say, some of these people are probably baddies so the police are bound to interview some crooks in amongst the innocent parties. So it's all good (except for the innocent parties).

 

I also accept that Bluescorpius deserves to be castigated by his neighbours, as he seems to be a suspicious person and is probably up to no good as we speak. Sitting in a car! Tut, tut. What was he thinking?

:blink:

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My theory on this that I was not in my car when my registration was taken. It may have been a knee jerk action of a nearby mother I observed when I walked away. She seemed overly 'firm' with a very young girl who was screaming and trembling in fear. She perhaps thought that I would report her for the harsh treatment because of the way she gripped the childs' wrist and yanked her away. There was no need for that, but I did not wish to be involved. She may have claimed I was sitting in my car at that point, hence no silver car mentioned as he came later, in case the police questioned her and she could discredit me - only a theory. I did not linger when this was going on. Would you prefer that I call the police anyway and report that harassed mother to establish my reasons for being in that area? I have raised two boys and I know that when they learn the word no, it can result in a battle of wills but this sounded different. As for my character, I have done jobs that I cannot talk about under the official secrets act, and the job involved full access to all vulnerable persons in society. If I was in any way suspicious, I would not last very long. We still live in a so called free society, supposedly,and we should be allowed to go about your business without being reported every five minutes. Yes, I have had long experiences like this. For example, when I lived in Pitlochry but worked in Perth, I was stopped every few weeks. Where do you think you are going this time of the morning, and is this your car routine. Yes, here we go again, are you new to the graveyard shift up here? Yes, how can you tell! Because this is the sixth time so far, do you not need a reason or doubt or suspicion to do this so often. He thought long and hummed and erred for ages and said in desperation, we thought you were a poacher! Really, so why not ask me to open the boot? What can you poach around here at this time of year anyway? So where are you going! Work, and if I am late, a lot of time sensitive items miss their connection, would you mind explaining to my supervisor that I will not make it in time? I promise to raise this at parade he said. Or what about the time many years ago, when I was tired and stopped in a layby to rest. This officer demanded licence and insurance and made me drive on, I was in a layby just like their infomercials suggest, but all he would mumble was not on my watch. He would not even tell me what, if anything I was doing wrong. Or what about the sergeant that used their systems to find out here I lived to come out with eleven other officers to accuse me of kidnapping his sister! I saw her safely home and watched her go in and shut the door, perhaps you should check the facts like perhaps did anybody look or shout upstairs, before this heavy handed approach, and what is it with half the watch out here, what did you think was going to happen? You are personally involved, can you make allegations like this, I asked. Ten years later, the brother of that sergeant became a police driver and was involved in an incident with my son. The lollipop lady stopped the traffic and eight mothers including my wife escorted their offspring across, with my wife and son bringing up the rear. This was the primary school directly outside the police station in Perth. The officer knocked the bag from my son's back and failed to stop. When everybody went in to report this, the officer refused to enter it in the log. They all asked why and were told that as the driver was a colleague and friend he should 'let off'. This never even illicited an apology for the near miss. Thus demonstrates the other side of the coin here. It is ok to ask me what I was doing, but when to rolls are reversed then suddenly they don't want to talk to you. They were only doing their job. I have had my car broken into, twice, I was attacked in the street, the house was broken into, yet on every occasion, the police would not 'just do their job'. I received replies like what has this to do with me, too late mate, there is nothing to do here, so what, deal with it yourself, or claim it off your insurance, I cannot be bothered. I know you will reckon I am bitter, and perhaps making this all up, or appearing to be a victim, but every incident of my experiences of the police 'doing their job' is absolutely 100% true! It would appear that the police should do their job, it just depends how easy it is for them, or whether they wish to break their monotony. I can quote you many more examples but you do not wish to hear any of it. I do not have a mistrust of the police, or an axe to grind, and I still respect them for a difficult job, but a balance is needed and a good helping of common sense thrown into the mix. You see, I am a law abiding person, but you would not think it. On average, once a year I will experience something like this, but on the other hand, if I ask them to do 'their job' for something I reported, they will not budge. From my perspective, it seems more important that they investigate me having a snack in an empty car park, than when somebody kicked the s*** out if me. By the way, I have got 'over myself' I am not bitter in the least. If you react adversely to these comments on the big picture, then you mussed the point, so you get over yourself!

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So, from your last post you've just described a set of incidents over several years that suggests that you are indeed a very suspicious looking person.

Now in my near on 50 years I have only ever been stopped once by a police man when in my teens I was on holiday with friends in Cornwall - and that was mistaken identity and the whole thing lasted a few seconds!!!

Perhaps you should be asking why it is that YOU keep getting confused for a suspicious person.

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My theory on this that I was not in my car when my registration was taken. It may have been a knee jerk action of a nearby mother I observed when I walked away. She seemed overly 'firm' with a very young girl who was screaming and trembling in fear. She perhaps thought that I would report her for the harsh treatment because of the way she gripped the childs' wrist and yanked her away. There was no need for that, but I did not wish to be involved. She may have claimed I was sitting in my car at that point, hence no silver car mentioned as he came later, in case the police questioned her and she could discredit me - only a theory. I did not linger when this was going on. Would you prefer that I call the police anyway and report that harassed mother to establish my reasons for being in that area? I have raised two boys and I know that when they learn the word no, it can result in a battle of wills but this sounded different. As for my character, I have done jobs that I cannot talk about under the official secrets act, and the job involved full access to all vulnerable persons in society. If I was in any way suspicious, I would not last very long. We still live in a so called free society, supposedly,and we should be allowed to go about your business without being reported every five minutes. Yes, I have had long experiences like this. For example, when I lived in Pitlochry but worked in Perth, I was stopped every few weeks. Where do you think you are going this time of the morning, and is this your car routine. Yes, here we go again, are you new to the graveyard shift up here? Yes, how can you tell! Because this is the sixth time so far, do you not need a reason or doubt or suspicion to do this so often. He thought long and hummed and erred for ages and said in desperation, we thought you were a poacher! Really, so why not ask me to open the boot? What can you poach around here at this time of year anyway? So where are you going! Work, and if I am late, a lot of time sensitive items miss their connection, would you mind explaining to my supervisor that I will not make it in time? I promise to raise this at parade he said. Or what about the time many years ago, when I was tired and stopped in a layby to rest. This officer demanded licence and insurance and made me drive on, I was in a layby just like their infomercials suggest, but all he would mumble was not on my watch. He would not even tell me what, if anything I was doing wrong. Or what about the sergeant that used their systems to find out here I lived to come out with eleven other officers to accuse me of kidnapping his sister! I saw her safely home and watched her go in and shut the door, perhaps you should check the facts like perhaps did anybody look or shout upstairs, before this heavy handed approach, and what is it with half the watch out here, what did you think was going to happen? You are personally involved, can you make allegations like this, I asked. Ten years later, the brother of that sergeant became a police driver and was involved in an incident with my son. The lollipop lady stopped the traffic and eight mothers including my wife escorted their offspring across, with my wife and son bringing up the rear. This was the primary school directly outside the police station in Perth. The officer knocked the bag from my son's back and failed to stop. When everybody went in to report this, the officer refused to enter it in the log. They all asked why and were told that as the driver was a colleague and friend he should 'let off'. This never even illicited an apology for the near miss. Thus demonstrates the other side of the coin here. It is ok to ask me what I was doing, but when to rolls are reversed then suddenly they don't want to talk to you. They were only doing their job. I have had my car broken into, twice, I was attacked in the street, the house was broken into, yet on every occasion, the police would not 'just do their job'. I received replies like what has this to do with me, too late mate, there is nothing to do here, so what, deal with it yourself, or claim it off your insurance, I cannot be bothered. I know you will reckon I am bitter, and perhaps making this all up, or appearing to be a victim, but every incident of my experiences of the police 'doing their job' is absolutely 100% true! It would appear that the police should do their job, it just depends how easy it is for them, or whether they wish to break their monotony. I can quote you many more examples but you do not wish to hear any of it. I do not have a mistrust of the police, or an axe to grind, and I still respect them for a difficult job, but a balance is needed and a good helping of common sense thrown into the mix. You see, I am a law abiding person, but you would not think it. On average, once a year I will experience something like this, but on the other hand, if I ask them to do 'their job' for something I reported, they will not budge. From my perspective, it seems more important that they investigate me having a snack in an empty car park, than when somebody kicked the s*** out if me. By the way, I have got 'over myself' I am not bitter in the least. If you react adversely to these comments on the big picture, then you mussed the point, so you get over yourself!

I tried and gave up, a little bit of formatting goes a long way.

 

wall of text syndrome and all that :(

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I am suspicious ALL THE TIME. Walking down the street? Suspicious. Sitting in a car? Suspicious. Eating a banana? Suspicious.

 

But when I ask people, "What is it you suspect?", they don't have an answer. It's just a vague feeling that I'm up to no good. I think it's my nose, it's too big. Or maybe it's the way I dress - baggy trousers and camo coat. Or maybe it's my haircut.

 

I've been stopped by the police, or PCSO, a few times; each time I explain "I'm on a sort of treasure hunt" and they're happy and leave me alone; sometimes I go into more details and explain about geocaching. I've never been searched; there's a lot of fun stuff in my caching bag, they'd enjoy searching that. I was stopped once near Chequers - there's a public footpath that cuts right across the grounds, it must be a security nightmare for them. I explained "Geocaching" and no problem. "Coupld I see some identification?" "Sorry officer, I haven't got anything with me." Which is true.

 

But when an ordinary member of the public comes up to me and tells me that I'm acting suspiciously, they become part of the entertainment.

 

For example - some random guy wanted my name and address. So I asked him for his name and address first, he wouldn't give it, end of incident.

 

A random woman did the same; I asked for her name and address. She looked quite shocked. "Why do you want it?" "Because," I said, "I think you're acting suspiciously, going up to strangers and asking for their name and address"

 

A couple of dog walkers told me I was acting suspiciously. One of them got his phone out and threatened to call the police. I told him, if you call the police, I'll undertake to stand here and wait for them, but only for one hour, and then I'm leaving, and only if you stand here with me. He put his phone away, end of incident.

 

Several people have been told "I'm counting the slugs" and I show them my British Slug Survey card. This immediately alleviates any suspicious thoughts they had, and they go away.

 

The bottom line is, I'm happy to help the police, they have a difficult and dangerous job, and I'd rather they dealt with the naughty people than I had to. But members of the public - they have NO IDEA what constitutes "suspicious behaviour", and very few of them have any idea what to do if they think someone is acting suspiciously (hint - being shown a British Slug Survey card doesn't mean that someone isn't a criminal).

 

Here's an example of why it is that people call the police. "Report anything that seems out of place".

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uN994lLmD1M/T0gJb7rcxjI/AAAAAAAAAEA/1WZ4gtWYuCE/s1600/report.jpg

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(note that the OP was NOT geocaching, just sitting,

Don't know which thread your following but his opening statement is that he revisited a multi that he was having difficulty with. Last time I checked that was caching.

 

My theory on this that I was not in my car when my registration was taken. It may have been a knee jerk action of a nearby mother I observed when I walked away. She seemed overly 'firm' with a very young girl who was screaming and trembling in fear. She perhaps thought that I would report her for the harsh treatment because of the way she gripped the childs' wrist and yanked her away. There was no need for that, but I did not wish to be involved. She may have claimed I was sitting in my car at that point, hence no silver car mentioned as he came later, in case the police questioned her and she could discredit me - only a theory. I did not linger when this was going on. Would you prefer that I call the police anyway and report that harassed mother to establish my reasons for being in that area? I have raised two boys and I know that when they learn the word no, it can result in a battle of wills but this sounded different. As for my character, I have done jobs that I cannot talk about under the official secrets act, and the job involved full access to all vulnerable persons in society. If I was in any way suspicious, I would not last very long. We still live in a so called free society, supposedly,and we should be allowed to go about your business without being reported every five minutes. Yes, I have had long experiences like this. For example, when I lived in Pitlochry but worked in Perth, I was stopped every few weeks. Where do you think you are going this time of the morning, and is this your car routine. Yes, here we go again, are you new to the graveyard shift up here? Yes, how can you tell! Because this is the sixth time so far, do you not need a reason or doubt or suspicion to do this so often. He thought long and hummed and erred for ages and said in desperation, we thought you were a poacher! Really, so why not ask me to open the boot? What can you poach around here at this time of year anyway? So where are you going! Work, and if I am late, a lot of time sensitive items miss their connection, would you mind explaining to my supervisor that I will not make it in time? I promise to raise this at parade he said. Or what about the time many years ago, when I was tired and stopped in a layby to rest. This officer demanded licence and insurance and made me drive on, I was in a layby just like their infomercials suggest, but all he would mumble was not on my watch. He would not even tell me what, if anything I was doing wrong. Or what about the sergeant that used their systems to find out here I lived to come out with eleven other officers to accuse me of kidnapping his sister! I saw her safely home and watched her go in and shut the door, perhaps you should check the facts like perhaps did anybody look or shout upstairs, before this heavy handed approach, and what is it with half the watch out here, what did you think was going to happen? You are personally involved, can you make allegations like this, I asked. Ten years later, the brother of that sergeant became a police driver and was involved in an incident with my son. The lollipop lady stopped the traffic and eight mothers including my wife escorted their offspring across, with my wife and son bringing up the rear. This was the primary school directly outside the police station in Perth. The officer knocked the bag from my son's back and failed to stop. When everybody went in to report this, the officer refused to enter it in the log. They all asked why and were told that as the driver was a colleague and friend he should 'let off'. This never even illicited an apology for the near miss. Thus demonstrates the other side of the coin here. It is ok to ask me what I was doing, but when to rolls are reversed then suddenly they don't want to talk to you. They were only doing their job. I have had my car broken into, twice, I was attacked in the street, the house was broken into, yet on every occasion, the police would not 'just do their job'. I received replies like what has this to do with me, too late mate, there is nothing to do here, so what, deal with it yourself, or claim it off your insurance, I cannot be bothered. I know you will reckon I am bitter, and perhaps making this all up, or appearing to be a victim, but every incident of my experiences of the police 'doing their job' is absolutely 100% true! It would appear that the police should do their job, it just depends how easy it is for them, or whether they wish to break their monotony. I can quote you many more examples but you do not wish to hear any of it. I do not have a mistrust of the police, or an axe to grind, and I still respect them for a difficult job, but a balance is needed and a good helping of common sense thrown into the mix. You see, I am a law abiding person, but you would not think it. On average, once a year I will experience something like this, but on the other hand, if I ask them to do 'their job' for something I reported, they will not budge. From my perspective, it seems more important that they investigate me having a snack in an empty car park, than when somebody kicked the s*** out if me. By the way, I have got 'over myself' I am not bitter in the least. If you react adversely to these comments on the big picture, then you mussed the point, so you get over yourself!

You are either one really unfortunate person or a person that is unfortunate to have serious mannerisms that cause people to suspect you are suspicous. I've never heard of anyone being stopped and questioned as much as you. With the exception of criminals of course. Even from your statement above, it wasn't even the police that instigated this incident.

 

Oh yeah HH, no need to dial 999, I would have thought a person that is as worldly wise like yourself would have known that to report a non emergency you just need to dial 101 B)

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Several people have been told "I'm counting the slugs" and I show them my British Slug Survey card. This immediately alleviates any suspicious thoughts they had, and they go away.

Oh, I SOoooo want one of those. Can you tell me how I can get a "British Slug Survey card"...

 

(I am still spluttering a good 5 mins later after nearly wetting myself laughing at this!)

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The whole disabled aspect to this story is a red herring, please OP stop mentioning it as you're making the rest of us annoyed.

 

There is no reason on this earth why a disabled person should not be stopped and questioned in the same way as any other citizen. In fact, I suspect I have been stopped by police more because I am disabled, and they very kindly ask me if I am ok.

 

People get stopped by police when geocaching fairly frequently, don't blame the police, don't blame Joe Public, but blame the times we live in. Simples.

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(note that the OP was NOT geocaching, just sitting,

Don't know which thread your following but his opening statement is that he revisited a multi that he was having difficulty with. Last time I checked that was caching.

 

...

 

Oh yeah HH, no need to dial 999, I would have thought a person that is as worldly wise like yourself would have known that to report a non emergency you just need to dial 101 B)

No, he'd been caching but when he was spotted he was just sitting in the car.

 

She came back and gave me the real reason for the hassle. A complaint was received because I was sitting in my car in a suspicious manner?

 

I guess that you hadn't realised that, which is why you say he might have looked suspicious. At first, the police said he'd been taking pictures but then they went off that idea because he knew he hadn't.

 

Thanks for the 101, I seemed to recall that there was a non-emergency number but didn't know what it was. I've only just learnt Directory Enquiries (192). Do you have to press Button B for a 101 call? :P

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No, he'd been caching but when he was spotted he was just sitting in the car.

 

How do you or anyone else know that. The OP was told that it was because he was in his car. As far as anyone knows the Sgt may have been economical with the truth. He was caching immediately before sitting in his car.

 

Suffice to say, we have already established from the OP's posts that he attracts unwanted attention and has done so for many years. So I don't suspect this will be the last unfortunate event for him.

 

Now I am going to leave it at that, as this thread feels like being a dog chasing its tail!

 

P.S. 192 was abandoned years ago....

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There are people who pretend to be disabled, as a cover for all manner of criminal activity. There was an egg thief at large in Scotland some while back who did this, for example, to try to get information about the location of nests. The police are not hassling anyone if they eliminate them from their enquiries by simply asking a few questions at a reasonable time of the day. I don't get why so many people see helping the police with their investigations as a negative thing.

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Oh, I SOoooo want one of those. Can you tell me how I can get a "British Slug Survey card"...

 

(I am still spluttering a good 5 mins later after nearly wetting myself laughing at this!)

 

I'm sure SP would be along soon to mention it, but I'll save him the keystrokes.

 

You can buy one from the Geolympix event 'shop' here:

 

http://www.geolympix.com/shop/

 

Or you could try this page:

http://bighugelabs.com/badge.php

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Oh, I SOoooo want one of those. Can you tell me how I can get a "British Slug Survey card"...

 

(I am still spluttering a good 5 mins later after nearly wetting myself laughing at this!)

 

I'm sure SP would be along soon to mention it, but I'll save him the keystrokes.

 

You can buy one from the Geolympix event 'shop' here:

 

http://www.geolympix.com/shop/

 

Or you could try this page:

http://bighugelabs.com/badge.php

 

That looks brilliant! You could be an official slug surveyer, and official supervisor of slug surveyers or just an official official. And in my experience, most people really do accept something like this as proof of identity.

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Like has been said, though I have to admit not wading through every reply, the Police received a report that someone thought something was suspicious.

 

We, and the OP, do not know what the background is here. There may well be many instances of things going on the the area or there could've been instances of criminal activity using that car park. Drug dealers, for instance, sometimes use locations like that to do their deals.

 

Yes on the bare facts that we have been told, sitting in a car does sound excessive reasons to knock on someone's door and ask them what they were doing! Though in the grand scheme of things that isn't exactly a Police state behaviour is it.

 

The ability or disability of the recipient to this attention bares zero relevance. Neither does the actual lawful activity that they were doing. A report was filed and a decision was made to speak to the driver. Once completed it was probably filed never to be considered ever again.

 

It's little things like chatting to people and seeing what's going on that allows the police to collate information and spot issues. Unfortunately, burglars do not walk around in stripy tops with masks, perverts do not were long coats with bags of sweets, bad people do not have that tattoed on their foreheads. They look like everyone else!!

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