Tunnels

[+Dragontree]

On our trips around the UK we encounter many tunnels. We know there is a category for Abandoned Train Tunnels but could there be a category for other tunnels?

 

There are many unique tunnels which are feats of engineering in their own right. We have come up with an idea thinking along these lines:

 

'Mankind has been endeavouring to discover methods of crossing natural obstructions for centuries. We have many types of bridges with various construction designs but when we can not build a bridge we often tunnel through the earth itself, or even under water. There are many tunnels, all vital to our infrastructure and they display some of the most marvellous feats of engineering.'

 

This is only an idea at this stage and we would research and do more work on everything if people think it is a good idea. Notable examples of types of tunnels here in the UK are roads under water i.e. Channel Tunnel/Dartford Tunnel; water under rock/earth i.e. Canals; footpaths; cattle creeps.

 

What do people think about this idea as a category? Obviously this would exclude Abandoned Train Tunnels as they have their own category.

 

Dragontree

[+fi67]

I think this topic has been discussed in the old forums more than once.

 

The main problem is that for many tunnels it is very difficult to find a save location to record the coordinates and take pictures. You can drive through by car or train, but you usually cannot stop at the entrance. This is the case for most of the interesting and spectacular tunnels. So you might end up with an uninspiring list of plain mundane pedestrian underpasses.

 

I know there are some tunnels that are interesting and accessible. I like the idea but I am not convinced yet that there are enough of them.

[+silverquill]

Yes, I think safely Waymarking tunnels is a MAJOR negative factor for such a category. Also, although some tunnels may have something unique about them, most don't. Korea has dozens of tunnels. They are all named. But, all the photos would still look about the same. They nearly all on limited access highways with no place to stop safely (a few have maintenance areas, but not many) Train tunnels are also plentiful, but impossible to waymark.

[+Team Sieni]

There is Cave Entrances (Artificial)

Caves that were built with manpower.(or natural caves that were converted) to use for things like: Store material, protection and production during a war, old mines, secret tunnels,……etc.

 

That would cover things like mining adits and so on.

 

That said, I have sometimes thought that there was nowehere to waymark active tunnels, but then they are often inaccessible or dangerous as a lot don't allow pedestrians (road tunnels, rail tunnels) but it's worth considering.

 

Sometimes they will find a home in other categories, eg: WMDE9A Thames Tunnel Rotherhithe UK (Engineering Landmarks) WMDKJB Rotherhithe Tunnel Tunnel Approach Rotherhithe London UK (Freestanding Arches). WM46FR Greenwich Foot Tunnel Greenwich England UK (Official Local Tourism Attractions),WMDHTG Cattle Creep Cosgrove Northants (UK Historical Markers). WMZ2K Greywell [canal] tunnel eastern portal (Cave entrances artificial)

 

If we take out active road and railway tunnels on safety (and boringness of picture) grounds, and pedestrian underpasses (no wow factor at all), abandoned train tunnels and "Cave Entrances Artificial" (redundancy) ... what are we left with?

 

I was undecided when I started writing this, but I'm erring towards "nay" now.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Team Sieni

[+Dragontree]

There is Cave Entrances (Artificial)

Caves that were built with manpower.(or natural caves that were converted) to use for things like: Store material, protection and production during a war, old mines, secret tunnels,……etc.

 

That would cover things like mining adits and so on.

 

That said, I have sometimes thought that there was nowehere to waymark active tunnels, but then they are often inaccessible or dangerous as a lot don't allow pedestrians (road tunnels, rail tunnels) but it's worth considering.

 

Sometimes they will find a home in other categories, eg: WMDE9A Thames Tunnel Rotherhithe UK (Engineering Landmarks) WMDKJB Rotherhithe Tunnel Tunnel Approach Rotherhithe London UK (Freestanding Arches). WM46FR Greenwich Foot Tunnel Greenwich England UK (Official Local Tourism Attractions),WMDHTG Cattle Creep Cosgrove Northants (UK Historical Markers). WMZ2K Greywell [canal] tunnel eastern portal (Cave entrances artificial)

 

If we take out active road and railway tunnels on safety (and boringness of picture) grounds, and pedestrian underpasses (no wow factor at all), abandoned train tunnels and "Cave Entrances Artificial" (redundancy) ... what are we left with?

 

I was undecided when I started writing this, but I'm erring towards "nay" now.

 

Having thought about it in some depth we have written the following (below), which prooved quite interesting during research. However, we too are erring on the side of 'No' due to the various factors. It's just a shame with the Canal Tunnels etc., but if we decide not to do this we'll pursue what Team Sieni suggests in the other categories and see what happens. We've had a Freestanding Arch declined for having a bit of fencing/low wall attached to it so can't see how that will work for us, but Cave Entrances Artificial might work. Anyway here is what we have written about Tunnels, it is a draft piece of writing, so bear that in mind:

 

MANMADE TUNNELS

 

Mankind has been endeavouring to discover methods of crossing natural obstructions for centuries. We have many types of bridges with various construction designs but when we can not build a bridge we often tunnel through the earth itself, or even under water. There are many tunnels, all vital to our infrastructure and they display some of the most marvellous feats of engineering.

 

This category seeks tunnels which are safely accessible, are not disused railway tunnels and are of some interest. Therefore we are not looking for mundane subways/underpasses. Other tunnels we are not looking for are complete underground networks (such as The Underground), nor mines/caves. Any other tunnels which may fall outside of the category requirements will be considered with the Officers’ vote as the ultimate decision.

 

Category Description:

 

A tunnel is a method to cross an area of land, water or manmade conurbation where a bridge is not appropriate. They have an opening at either end enabling the person, vehicle or animal to traverse from one area to another; these are known as the ingress and egress.

 

Generally a tunnel is longer than its width. As they are manmade passages they normally have a horizontal orientation with a vertical entrance. This is often sealed with a surround and many tunnels are lined with bricks/tiles/concrete etc. Lining techniques include sprayed concrete, steel arches, rock bolts and mesh. However, there are also tunnels which are bored through the earth’s rock and they are left with the exposed rock on display, sometimes with suspended netting to catch any loose rocks which fall.

 

Investigations are always necessary before a tunnel is constructed. These assess the nature of the substrate that is going to be bored, with boreholes and pilot tunnel runs. Ground water is a major factor as is the type of soil or rock; this defines the machinery needed to create the tunnel. A method used to prevent ground water flooding tunnels, is to lay pipes which are cooled until the earth around them freezes, preventing leakage of water through the soil; another common way is to lay pipes and pump water out of the tunnel.

 

The three main types of tunnel construction consist of:

 

Cut and cover tunnels – these are areas of earth which are cut out then covered over once the structure of the tunnel is in place.

 

Bored tunnels – bored through the earth or rock as it is and usually with a circular or horse-shoe cross-section.

Immersed tube tunnels – these are tubes or even could be described as large pipes which are buried or sunk beneath water.

 

Manual techniques of tunnelling include Clay-Kicking where an almost silent method of extracting clay was used. This was popular in the Victorian period and was used during the First World War.

 

Today Boring Machines are used as they are fast, effective and automated. An operator still has to renew machinery parts and they rely on balancing the water pressure ahead of the tunnel to create a safe passage. This process replaced the method of using compressed air where the operator had to stay in a decompression chamber to relieve decompression sickness afterwards.

 

Along the route of a tunnel there are often shafts. These are features in our landscape hiding an underground world beneath. Shafts are used to lower boring equipment down into the tunnel so it can be completed. When the tunnel is finished the shafts remain and act as ventilation points; these structures alone are feats of engineering in their own right with their circular, strong design.

 

Tunnels need maintenance and stand-up time is an estimate as to how long the tunnel will stand-up to its purpose; supporting the weight and forces around and on top of it.

 

Bridges are often cheaper to build, but tunnels are hidden, enable the earth to grow above them, can have entire cities above them and can be less easy to destroy in acts of war. They are not influenced by high winds and can cross longer distances. However, they do have their drawbacks such as when there is a fire; where do you escape to? Sometimes a tunnel can have a dual purpose and is built to be a double-deck accommodating both road and rail, or road and canal. They can even avert natural disaster providing an escape for flood water.

 

……………………………………………………..

 

We are not looking for Subways/Underpasses as these are rated as being unsafe, especially at night, for pedestrians and are not the most salubrious locations. Just to confirm The Free Dictionary defines a Subway as follows: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/subway

 

subway [ˈsʌbˌweɪ]

n

1. (Engineering / Automotive Engineering) Brit an underground passage or tunnel enabling pedestrians to cross a road, railway, etc.

2. (Engineering / Automotive Engineering) an underground passage or tunnel for traffic, electric power supplies, etc.

3. (Transport / Railways) Chiefly US and Canadian an underground railway

 

Other unsuitable locations for Waymarking which we must point out are tunnels used for sewerage, water, electricity and other utilities if access is not public and via a manhole/hatch. We will not accept children’s play area tunnels, these are often just pipes or play equipment covered over. All tunnels/underpasses which pass underneath a bridge/aqueduct, road/railway/canal are not fit for this category. We are interested in locations that are used by us all and are of interest. They must be tunnels which have been placed through the earth itself.

 

Active railway tunnels are welcome here and some of these are the longest and oldest in the world. We can not accept Abandoned Rail Tunnels as these have their own well-established Waymarking category.

 

Canal tunnels, both used and disused are welcome and these provide some of the most accessible and safe locations. Access to the tunnel is often via the canal towpath so photography and co-ordinates are easily obtained.

 

Pedestrian tunnels are acceptable if they were once used for another purpose (except for a railway) and they are not just an ordinary subway/underpass.

 

Underground railway tunnels will only be accepted if they are not part of a continuous network. We do not wish to include the whole London Underground as one waymark, but if there is accessible evidence that the tunnels are broken between the network, then waymark them and provide details of both ends.

 

Other marvels in the tunnelling world include the walk-through tunnels in oceanariums. We are willing to accept these here if details of their construction is included.

 

……………………………………………………………

 

A list of tunnels in the UK can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tunnels_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

POSTING INSTRUCTIONS

 

Please include an interesting description of your Waymark. Do not access unsafe or illegal locations in order to find a tunnel. Tunnels must be accessible for Waymarkers to visit and take photographs. They can often be seen from bridges, footpaths or from terminals or stations. We will only accept one Waymark per tunnel, so not a separate Waymark for one end and the other end. If a future Waymarker photographs the other end of an already Waymarked tunnel please Visit the tunnel and ask the Waymark owner or category officers to add your details to the Waymark.

 

Include at least two photographs of the tunnel. One must be a close-up of the entrance and the other must be a view of the location with the entrance in the photograph. Use the zoom on your camera to obtain a shot of the entrance of the tunnel. Other pictures are appreciated to give your Waymark an interesting and valuable quality. Pictures of ventilation shafts can add value if these are accessible.

 

Variables:

Length

Location End 1:

Location End 2:

etc.

[+fi67]

I do like the proposal. You obviously worked hard on it; this might work. I will support it.

 

However, the main problem cannot be solved. There are so many tunnels that are not accessible in a waymarker friendly way. I am not sure if a category will be supported that only covers a small fraction of the potential locations and - even worse - you will often only find out if you can use it when you are there already.

 

A minor point: The posted coordinates are not the for tunnel itself, but the tunnel entrance or usually even a location more or less close to a tunnel entrance. From this point of view I think it is not justified to only allow one waymark per tunnel bearing in mind that sometimes both ends can be over 50 kilometers apart. Logging a visit to a location that is so far away is neither a perfect solution. Your proposal makes sense for short tunnels, but I would prefer to have both ends treated separately for longer ones, two or five kilometers could be a reasonable threshold.

[+flipflopnick]

After visiting an abandoned canal tunnel for the first time after it had been on my to-do list since I started Waymarking (several years). I find there is no Category suitable for it.

 

Finding this thread here is my two penneth.

Needs to be abandoned. ie no longer used for purpose originally built for. This excludes all under passes and road and rail tunnels and makes getting necessary info safe. If tunnel is in use for original purpose it is not for this Category.

Coords are either or both entrances.

No cross posting. If Waymark is in another category, duplicate not needed here. eg Abandoned Train Tunnels and others you might be able to squeeze in.

Name could be "Tunnels - Abandoned"

 

"Posting in this Category is not meant to be easy." to misquote a TV chef :-)

Create the group and I will support it. Lets get this show on the road.

 

I do like the proposal. You obviously worked hard on it; this might work. I will support it.

 

However, the main problem cannot be solved. There are so many tunnels that are not accessible in a waymarker friendly way. I am not sure if a category will be supported that only covers a small fraction of the potential locations and - even worse - you will often only find out if you can use it when you are there already.

 

A minor point: The posted coordinates are not the for tunnel itself, but the tunnel entrance or usually even a location more or less close to a tunnel entrance. From this point of view I think it is not justified to only allow one waymark per tunnel bearing in mind that sometimes both ends can be over 50 kilometers apart. Logging a visit to a location that is so far away is neither a perfect solution. Your proposal makes sense for short tunnels, but I would prefer to have both ends treated separately for longer ones, two or five kilometers could be a reasonable threshold.

[+Max and 99]

I hope this relates enough to water tunnels to be accepted in this thread, otherwise I have to start a whole new thread!

 

When I first go to the Waymarking site and I am NOT logged in, I click on Newest Categories and Water Tunnels is at the top. When I log in to the wm site, water tunnels is NOT listed as a new category.

 

Why is this?

[+dtrebilc]

I hope this relates enough to water tunnels to be accepted in this thread, otherwise I have to start a whole new thread!

 

When I first go to the Waymarking site and I am NOT logged in, I click on Newest Categories and Water Tunnels is at the top. When I log in to the wm site, water tunnels is NOT listed as a new category.

 

Why is this?

 

Apparently this happens on the last 6 categories created. The problem is being investigated by Bruces and Bootron.

[+silverquill]

Wow, this category totally slipped by me. I've traveled extensively in Korea and have never seen one of these here. I think they of very limited in existence. I see that all but two posted so far are in the UK.

 

Anyway, in regard to the search for the category. No search term yielded a result for Canal Tunnels. When I clicked on the "Newest Categories" search link, however, it showed up without a problem. Definitely a bug in the system, though.

[+BruceS]

Wow, this category totally slipped by me. I've traveled extensively in Korea and have never seen one of these here. I think they of very limited in existence. I see that all but two posted so far are in the UK.

 

Anyway, in regard to the search for the category. No search term yielded a result for Canal Tunnels. When I clicked on the "Newest Categories" search link, however, it showed up without a problem. Definitely a bug in the system, though.

 

They are fairly rare in US, there are 12 such tunnels in US thus 24 potential waymarks. A few are in your old area of Ohio and the tunnels are more intact than the one near Cincinnati that I waymarked one end of.