GPS for newbies

[+Smart_Cookies]

Hi All

 

Hubby and myself are very new to geocaching but see it as a long term hobby. So far we have been using our Android HTC phones which work very well but we would like to get a GPS due to battery life limits with the phones and the difficulty using phones abroad.

 

We think we have narrowed down to two within our price range - Garmin etrex 20 or Garmin Dakota 20 - both available for less than £200.

 

If you had to make a choice between the two (or can reccommend something even better), which would it be?

 

Thanks for any help you can give 2 newbies!

 

Sue

[team tisri]

One key thing to consider is what sort of user interface you prefer.

 

If you prefer a touchscreen you'll probably like the Dakota more. If you like a button-based system you'll probably like the eTrex more. It's the kind of issue that's a matter of personal preference rather than one being inherently better than the other.

 

If you're not sure which one you prefer pay a visit to a local outdoors shop and have a look. If they don't have the exact units you're looking for then by all means check out other devices with similar interfaces - the Oregon and Montana have a touchscreen and the 62 series is button based (all three are probably going to break your budget)

[+eusty]

I would spend a little extra (very little) and get the Oregon 450.....

Edited April 9, 2012 by eusty

[+Graculus]

Suggest you go to an event and meet other cachers with a variety of GPS's, they'll be only too happy to show them off and let you have a play with them! GAGB has a calender of events coming up so find one near to you.

http://www.gagb.co.uk/forums/calendar.php

 

The comments above about 'button' versus 'touch screen' menus is important. The GPS's do the same job but handling them is a bit different. If you use a 'smart' phone touch screen you'll find the GPS touch screen is not as sensitive to use. Saying that, I use an Oregon and the touch screen works just fine for me!. Only other comment I would make is both the eTrex 20 and Dakota have a smaller screen than the Oregon so my preference would be for the Oregon.. but that's just my opinion!

 

Chris

Graculus

Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com

UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk

Geocaching.com Knowledge Books

Edited April 9, 2012 by Graculus

[+thehoomer]

Welcome to the game

We have been using the same GPS since we started (Garmin Etrex) and I would guess that this somewhat dated unit wouldn't be enough for most folks but it suits us.

Another thing to consider, especially if you have a limited budget.... are you as sure as you can be that you are going to continue with this (or another GPS using) hobby? Geocaching is very exciting at the start and it can feel like you are hooked but the novelty soon wears off for some people.

My advice would be to wait a while longer and continue to use your phone. As suggested, go to a few events, get some advice and hands-on experience of the different units available. If in a few months time, you are still Tupperified, go ahead and take the plunge. Have fun.

[+Smart_Cookies]

Thank you so much for all the comments - all useful in our decision making. Take the point about the Oregon - for just a little more it might suit better. Will have a look at what events are coming up our way - we are in Kent. I think touchscreen is going to be better for us - even if it's not so sensitive - I have trouble with anything that's not touchscreen nowadays - phone and ipad are fine of course, but try using a Kindle and you keep wanting to touch the screen ha ha!! We are meeting with someone next week that has a couple that we can play with - not going to rush into this - but yes, we are as sure as we can be at this stage that this will be a long term obsession! Beats sitting in front of the TV.

 

Sue

[+Bear and Ragged]

Beats sitting in front of the TV.

 

Sue

You're hooked when you watch the TV and go "There's a cache there..!"

Or "Wonder if there's a cache there..?"

And then start planning your next caching trip!

[+Smart_Cookies]

Beats sitting in front of the TV.

 

Sue

You're hooked when you watch the TV and go "There's a cache there..!"

Or "Wonder if there's a cache there..?"

And then start planning your next caching trip!

 

Ha ha - already doing that so I think there's no turning back now.

[+Amberel]

You're hooked when you watch the TV and go "There's a cache there..!"

Indeed, I pointed out to my wife that there was a fun cache (actually a TOP CACHE) on the TV on Saturday, very close indeed to where the boat race was restarted .

 

Rgds, Andy

[+Amberel]

It has just ocurred to me that I do have an Oregon 450t "surplus to requirements". I lost my 550t while walking in Lathkill Dale a month ago, and as the Oregon is essential to me as a motor-cycle SatNav in addition to it's caching function, I replaced it immediately. A week or two later I got my 550t back again.

 

I paid £244.67, inc. delivery, from Handtec. It's in almost new condition, having been used only 3 or 4 times.

 

A few more notes about the Oregon:

 

The unit does not come with maps as standard. OS 50000 maps of the UK are available for about £100. They also require an SD card, as they are too big to fit into the internal memory. These maps also add the routing facility (i.e. SatNav operation).

 

Alternatively OpenStreetMap sets are available from TalkyToaster. These are free, and just about fit onto the free memory in the Oregon without having to add an SD card. I find these maps to be markedly inferior to the OS maps, but they are free, and the person I regularly cache with finds them entirely acceptable for caching purposes.

 

The OpenStreetMap maps also do routing, but having used them 3 times (very recently) for that purpose I would say this function is exceptionally poor. If you have an iPhone, then TomTom on the phone is a much better bet, the reason I use the Oregon for routing is because the iPhone would soon stop working if exposed to rain on the motor-bike.

 

Rgds, Andy

[+eusty]

The OpenStreetMap maps also do routing, but having used them 3 times (very recently) for that purpose I would say this function is exceptionally poor. If you have an iPhone, then TomTom on the phone is a much better bet

 

A lot depends on who did the OSM mapping, if you don't connect the roads or don't mark add the restrictions (no cars etc) then they can take you a way you wouldn't have chosen!

 

I route with OSM on my 450 and to be honest I've found it pretty good...although not as good as a TomTom etc

 

 

[+Amberel]

I route with OSM on my 450 and to be honest I've found it pretty good...although not as good as a TomTom etc

The first time I used it, I reckon it added more than 45 mins to my journey. Had I not been caching on my way to a customer meeting in London, and had an hour in hand, I would have been late for the meeting.

 

Numerous times it tried to make me turn right at no right turns and go the wrong way up one way streets. From Lambeth the graphic showed it going over Westminster Bridge but the text told me to go straight over onto York Road. It then took me all round the back streets by the Royal Festival Hall and confused itself so badly that it reported a routing error and completely stopped routing until I turned it off and on again! It got seriously confused at Holborn and took me round in a complete circle!!!. There were literally hundreds of roads missing completely. While I was there I did some walking, and several of the roads that were shown were so distorted as to bear little relationship with reality.

 

It's no use saying the answer is to go and edit the maps. That doesn't get you to the meeting on time. And I couldn't edit the maps anyway - there were dozens of errors, but they were on 50 miles of roads that I don't know, and I would not be able to correlate the errors with where I was at the time.

 

The second time, I used it, at High Wycombe, the graphic appeared to show a left turn but it said 0.65 miles to the next turning, so I didn't turn and it took me an extremely long way round. At the next roundabout it was a left turn but the graphic showed it going three quarters of the way round the roundabout anti-clockwise!!!

 

It's one thing using the OSM maps for walking, but quite another for using them for routing.

 

Rgds, Andy

[+redsox_mark]

I'm no expert; I've only used OSM maps created by others. But their suitability does seem to depend on how they are constructed. Obviously if there are errors in the source maps that will be an issue regardless. But for example - the previous Talky Toaster maps I found did reasonable routing; the newer "Ordinance Survey Like" ones don't do well at all (but are nicer for walking).

 

On a recent trip to the US I used a set of OSM maps which seemed to do a reasonable job routing. It generally picked the same route as my friend's Garmin car GPS.

[+Amberel]

... But for example - the previous Talky Toaster maps I found did reasonable routing; the newer "Ordinance Survey Like" ones don't do well at all (but are nicer for walking).

I was aware of the routing issues with the newer "Ordnance Survey layout" maps - the routing issues I had were using the original format TT maps.

 

But I think the routing problems aren't pertinent to the OP since I think they mentioned they have an iPhone, for which TomTom is dirt cheap and much better.

 

Rgds, Andy

Edited April 12, 2012 by Amberel

[team tisri]

The OpenStreetMap maps also do routing, but having used them 3 times (very recently) for that purpose I would say this function is exceptionally poor. If you have an iPhone, then TomTom on the phone is a much better bet

 

A lot depends on who did the OSM mapping, if you don't connect the roads or don't mark add the restrictions (no cars etc) then they can take you a way you wouldn't have chosen!

 

I route with OSM on my 450 and to be honest I've found it pretty good...although not as good as a TomTom etc

 

There's a footpath/cyclepath near my home that is shown on OSM but OSM maps routinely refuse to use it as a routing option. Even when I try and construct a route from one end to the other (about 0.2 mile away) it insists on taking me the long way around, over 2 miles.

 

Sometimes the OSM maps produce a brilliant route. Other times they take what must be the most tortuous route imaginable to get from A to B.

 

There were a lot better before OSM added all sorts of extra tags to roads. I have to wonder if a lot of the issues I have with routing on the Montana relate to vast numbers of routes being marked as "unknown" where cycling permission is concerned and so when I tell it I'm cycling it avoids routes that aren't known to allow cyclists. Which is daft, when it ends up avoiding regular roads.

 

That said at the price they're worth at least what I paid for them so I can only complain so loudly about it.

[+Amberel]

That said at the price they're worth at least what I paid for them so I can only complain so loudly about it.

I have always hesitated to be too critical, because they are free. I personally don't much like them for "non-routing" use, but they are quite usable and I don't criticise them because I recognise they are a viable alternative for those who can't justify the price of OS maps.

 

But while there is a modest difference between "Garmin OS" and "OSM" for normal use, when it comes to routing there is a colossal difference. And for me, it's one of those cases where the free maps cost much more than the paid for maps, because of the extensive wasted time and mileage.

 

Rgds, Andy

[+ayrbrain]

Hi All

 

Hubby and myself are very new to geocaching but see it as a long term hobby. So far we have been using our Android HTC phones which work very well but we would like to get a GPS due to battery life limits with the phones and the difficulty using phones abroad.

 

We think we have narrowed down to two within our price range - Garmin etrex 20 or Garmin Dakota 20 - both available for less than £200.

 

If you had to make a choice between the two (or can reccommend something even better), which would it be?

 

Thanks for any help you can give 2 newbies!

 

Sue

[team tisri]

That said at the price they're worth at least what I paid for them so I can only complain so loudly about it.

I have always hesitated to be too critical, because they are free. I personally don't much like them for "non-routing" use, but they are quite usable and I don't criticise them because I recognise they are a viable alternative for those who can't justify the price of OS maps.

 

But while there is a modest difference between "Garmin OS" and "OSM" for normal use, when it comes to routing there is a colossal difference. And for me, it's one of those cases where the free maps cost much more than the paid for maps, because of the extensive wasted time and mileage.

 

Rgds, Andy

 

When routing by car I'd agree with you. To be honest I wouldn't trust the OSM maps to route my car although when I'm on the bike (bicycle, not motor bike) if it routes me down a one-way street or along a path lined with mud it's easy enough, if annoying, to reroute on the fly. I wouldn't want to end up trying to balance the desire to stop and figure out what's going on with keeping moving if I were somewhere unfamiliar in the car and it did something silly.

 

For cycling the Garmin maps aren't much good either, simply because in my experience they have little to no information about cycle lane contraflows, cut-throughs etc. When I used the Garmin Topo maps on the bike I was constantly having to figure the best point to tell it to route to on the basis it just didn't know about all sorts of shortcuts available (legally) to a cyclist so always took me the long way around. It also did lots of really stupid stuff, like telling me to turn right across a busy road, follow parallel to it for half a mile, then turn right across the traffic again. The only "benefit" was getting me off the busy road for half a mile but even that was a tiny benefit given the busy road had a designated cycle lane. Ironically, because it didn't know of a cycle lane that went under a very busy local road it would always route me over a busy roundabout where local traffic mixed with dual carriageway traffic.

[+Pharisee]

Neither the Garmin Topo maps, which I have on my 60CSx, or the Talky Toaster OS maps which I have on a 60Cx are much good for cycling. When I cycled from my home in Bedfordshire to my ex-wife's cottage just outside Leatherhead I used OS 1:25K maps on MemoryMap to plot a route. I effectively drew a straight line between the two houses and then created a 'track' that followed as closely as possible that straight line. I avoided major dual carriageways where ever possible but was quite happy using bridleways and byways if they were available. Then, because I had the time, i followed the whole route on Google Earth street view (not the bridleways, of course) and made a few adjustments based on what I could see on that. Where junctions were a bit 'tricky', I put in a waypoint with a proximity alarm to give me an audible warning a couple of hundred yards before I reached it. Then I downloaded the track and waypoints to my 60CSx. That was mounted on the handlebars and off I went. I just followed the track on the Garmin's map display. It worked extremely well and I did the whole 56mile journey in 4 hours with no problems at all. Simples (if you have MemoryMap)

[team tisri]

Neither the Garmin Topo maps, which I have on my 60CSx, or the Talky Toaster OS maps which I have on a 60Cx are much good for cycling. When I cycled from my home in Bedfordshire to my ex-wife's cottage just outside Leatherhead I used OS 1:25K maps on MemoryMap to plot a route. I effectively drew a straight line between the two houses and then created a 'track' that followed as closely as possible that straight line. I avoided major dual carriageways where ever possible but was quite happy using bridleways and byways if they were available. Then, because I had the time, i followed the whole route on Google Earth street view (not the bridleways, of course) and made a few adjustments based on what I could see on that. Where junctions were a bit 'tricky', I put in a waypoint with a proximity alarm to give me an audible warning a couple of hundred yards before I reached it. Then I downloaded the track and waypoints to my 60CSx. That was mounted on the handlebars and off I went. I just followed the track on the Garmin's map display. It worked extremely well and I did the whole 56mile journey in 4 hours with no problems at all. Simples (if you have MemoryMap)

 

I've found the OSM maps to vary between excellent and awful for cycling. For getting from cache to cache they usually do the trick but for longer rides I wouldn't trust them yet.

 

I do much the same as you but using bikeroutetoaster.com, and for a long ride I'll also check the route out using Street View. If I'm doing a long ride the last thing I was is to find my route is critically dependent on me following a muddy bridlepath for a couple of miles.

[+Smart_Cookies]

Just wanted to update you with our decision - as you have all been helpful in making suggestions. After a lot of thought and much research, we have decided to order two Garmin 550's - the budget was stretched a bit but we think these will see us through for a long time without having to upgrade too soon. We just have just been on holiday and met an experienced cacher who was very helpful. Although he had a very good Garmin 62s, we realised it just wasn't for us and we really wanted touchscreen. So even though we are new to the game, we have cached in Puerto Rico, Tenerife, Lanzarote and Madeira - all within the last 14 days. We could have done St Thomas and St Maarten also but without a GPS unit it's hard. So amazing the amount of people we bumped into doing the same thing all over the world. This new hobby of ours is going to fit in very nicely with our other hobby of cruising!!

 

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

[+achillisland1]

Hi, I'm looking for some guidance in the Stevenage area as I seem to have problems locating cache in wooded areas and am not sure where I am going wrong. Is there anyone that would be willing to help.Regards Gina