My finds reduced, why?

[+Sinver]

Over the last day or two I have noticed my "finds" have gone down from 83, to 80. Why would this happen? I always sign the log books of every one I find, (with one exception, and this was noted in the online log with a reason). Is it possible some were archived? I know of two in my area I found that are no longer there.

 

Is there any way to find out which were removed? I am just curious!

[+briansnat]

If a log was deleted you should get a log deletion notice emailed to you. A deleted found it log should be the only reason your find count would go down. If a cache you found was archived it would have no affect on your count.

Edited April 8, 2012 by briansnat

[+Bear and Ragged]

Could be you've logged the same cache twice (log by phone? That's a 'usual' for two or more logs on the same cache) and the Cache Owner is removing duplicate logs.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Early on in your caching start, it seems as though you photographed nearly every find.

 

It is entirely possible that a CO determined that your photographs could have been 'spoilers'. As such, he/she could have deleted them. Not sure about now, but it was that a photo deleted also deleted the log/find.

 

If such is the case, you should have gotten an email as Briansnat says.

 

 

Hint: "I know of two in my area I found that are no longer there." -- usually means finds close to home/early finds.

It could be because of spoiler deletions.

 

The answer to that rests in your email spam filter.

[+Sinver]

Thanks for the replies so far. As far as the photos are concerned, is it really a point I could spoil it enough to be deleted? I never photographed the cache "in situe" as it were and only did it for fun as I liked to enjoy my caching with my dog. Can I look at a list of my caches so as to be able to determine by means of deduction as to what has been deleted? Seems a bit petty to be honest.............

Edited April 8, 2012 by Sinver

[+SgtSue]

As a premium member you can run a "my finds" pocket query to review all your finds. Side note, check your spam filter to see if you got an email notifying you of the deleted caches. You should have gotten an email notifying you of the deletions.

[+Wreck Diver]

Sinver, I have reduced geocachers successful finds on my caches for three reasons:

 

1.) The cacher posted pictures of themselves holding the final for a puzzle cache when the cache container clearly listed the final coordinates for all to see.

2.) The cacher logged a successful find of a virtual cache and then followed the find with answers that read "I have no idea" or "I forgot to look."

3.) The cacher logged a successful find and the cache container log book or cache contents did not corroborate their find.

 

I wish that geocache owners had the ability to remove individual photographs from finder's logs, but the only way to remove said photographs is for the owner to remove the entire log.

[+J the Goat]

Sinver, I have reduced geocachers successful finds on my caches for three reasons:

 

1.) The cacher posted pictures of themselves holding the final for a puzzle cache when the cache container clearly listed the final coordinates for all to see.

2.) The cacher logged a successful find of a virtual cache and then followed the find with answers that read "I have no idea" or "I forgot to look."

3.) The cacher logged a successful find and the cache container log book or cache contents did not corroborate their find.

 

I wish that geocache owners had the ability to remove individual photographs from finder's logs, but the only way to remove said photographs is for the owner to remove the entire log.

 

Cache contents have no bearing on a find or a DNF. If you deleted my log solely because of cache contents, I'd leave the log off the page but put all your caches on my ignore list and encourage my friends to do the same.

 

Also, CO's now have the ability to delete a picture but not the entire log. It's not very widely known though, so that would be my guess.

[Pup Patrol]

I wish that geocache owners had the ability to remove individual photographs from finder's logs, but the only way to remove said photographs is for the owner to remove the entire log.

 

From what I understand, cache owners DO have the ability to delete photographs without deleting the finder's log.

 

I'm not sure when this came into effect, it is pretty recent.

 

 

B.

[+SwineFlew]

I wish that geocache owners had the ability to remove individual photographs from finder's logs, but the only way to remove said photographs is for the owner to remove the entire log.

 

From what I understand, cache owners DO have the ability to delete photographs without deleting the finder's log.

 

I'm not sure when this came into effect, it is pretty recent.

 

 

B.

 

It been a while now. I am sure there are some people that dont know its available now. Time for another newsletter idea?

[+J the Goat]

I wish that geocache owners had the ability to remove individual photographs from finder's logs, but the only way to remove said photographs is for the owner to remove the entire log.

 

From what I understand, cache owners DO have the ability to delete photographs without deleting the finder's log.

 

I'm not sure when this came into effect, it is pretty recent.

 

 

B.

 

It been a while now. I am sure there are some people that dont know its available now. Time for another newsletter idea?

 

Maybe, but what are the odds that the sentence will start out as "Feel free to delete pictures from logs without deleting the entire log." :ph34r:

[+Wreck Diver]

 

Cache contents have no bearing on a find or a DNF. If you deleted my log solely because of cache contents, I'd leave the log off the page but put all your caches on my ignore list and encourage my friends to do the same.

 

 

J the Goat, I subscribe to the school of thought that if a cacher didn't sign the cache log then the "successful" find didn't occur, but there are occasions where I will make an exception.

 

It's not uncommon for geocachers in New England to cache in cold weather and experience ink freezes that preclude a written log. There are some that find it the absolute last thought to even bring a writing implement.

 

Successful finds without a written signature may be inherently suspect, but logs that indicate a problem with a writing implement are less of a concern when they left a trade item or a trackable that offers some means of visit verification to corroborate the find.

[+J the Goat]

 

Cache contents have no bearing on a find or a DNF. If you deleted my log solely because of cache contents, I'd leave the log off the page but put all your caches on my ignore list and encourage my friends to do the same.

 

 

J the Goat, I subscribe to the school of thought that if a cacher didn't sign the cache log then the "successful" find didn't occur, but there are occasions where I will make an exception.

 

It's not uncommon for geocachers in New England to cache in cold weather and experience ink freezes that preclude a written log. There are some that find it the absolute last thought to even bring a writing implement.

 

Successful finds without a written signature may be inherently suspect, but logs that indicate a problem with a writing implement are less of a concern when they left a trade item or a trackable that offers some means of visit verification to corroborate the find.

 

That's more clear, thanks. I read your first post as verifying swag was traded or something along those lines. I agree with the above statement completely

[+captnemo]

I wish that geocache owners had the ability to remove individual photographs from finder's logs, but the only way to remove said photographs is for the owner to remove the entire log.

 

From what I understand, cache owners DO have the ability to delete photographs without deleting the finder's log.

 

I'm not sure when this came into effect, it is pretty recent.

 

 

B.

CO can delete a photo and not affect the log. I've done it and it works! So much nicer when the problem is only the picture and not the log itself.

[+Sinver]

Well going on what you all say, it is likely I have had logs deleted by CO's that maybe think I was spoiling it, as I used to picture my finds with my faithful geosidekick dog. I never thought it gave anything away, but clearly this upset someone (I really cannot be bothered to go through the list) so will be careful not to do this in future. Bit petty though if you ask me.

[+Bear and Ragged]

I used to picture my finds with my faithful geosidekick dog. I never thought it gave anything away, but clearly this upset someone (I really cannot be bothered to go through the list) so will be careful not to do this in future. Bit petty though if you ask me.

There is the school of thought that a photograph identifying the cache locations as a spoiler, especially for multicaches and unknown/puzzles, and allows those that are into spoiling the game -trashing the cache, or stealing items from the cache- easier access to the cache, without having to look to hard for it.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Bear and Ragged

[+Chokecherry]

One of my friends caches with a dog and she'll take pictures but make sure to not give away the final location of the cache in the process and won't give away the cache container if it's special. An ammo can or a lock and lock she'll take a picture of but away from the hiding spot if it happens. I'll take pictures of containers or ground zero but I usually keep them in my personal collection and don't post them to the cache pages.

[+zack_black]

Thanks for the replies so far. As far as the photos are concerned, is it really a point I could spoil it enough to be deleted? I never photographed the cache "in situe" as it were and only did it for fun as I liked to enjoy my caching with my dog. Can I look at a list of my caches so as to be able to determine by means of deduction as to what has been deleted? Seems a bit petty to be honest.............

 

Some people are quite anal about what they consider "spoiler" pictures. I had a CO delete a picture I posted of a signed log because they determined that the size of the log could be used by other cachers to figure out the size of the cache and thus "spoil" their fun...

[+DaysJourney]

Its not petty if you put a lot of effort, time or expense into a cache only to have someone thoughtlessly reveal spoilers in their online log. Or even worse, post a picture of the container at GZ. You wouldn't believe how often this happens. I know people are happy they made the find and are sharing the experience and that's great. But when people are oblivious about what they reveal in their log or photo they can easily turn a difficulty 3 hide into a 1. It is really disappointing sometimes.

[+TL&MinBHIL]

Let's not forget that Groundspeak places a warning on every cache page right above the logs: **Warning! Spoilers may be included in the descriptions or links.

And they define "Spoiler" as:

Spoiler

A spoiler is information that can give details away and ruin the experience of something. For example, telling someone the end of a movie before they see it. In geocaching, a spoiler gives away details of a cache location and can ruin the experience of the find.

 

To me, by placing this warning, it says they are aware that logs may contain location spoilers, but allow it. It is up to each cacher to be aware of this prior to searching and understand a log, or logs, may offer spoilers. With that said, I fully understand a CO's sentiment when they hide what they consider a challenging cache and want it to remain that way. But deleting logs for a reason that isn't against the guidelines is, in my opinion, pushing beyond the boundaries of a CO's authority. Why not try to contact the cacher and ask them to edit their log or remove their revealing photo? Let them know you wish your cache to be a challenge and their log hurts the integrity of that challenge. Some CO's may consider posting spoilers in logs as hurting the game, but deleting a log for personal reasons (reasons that don't break the rules) sure isn't helping anything.

[+CanadianRockies]

But deleting logs for a reason that isn't against the guidelines is, in my opinion, pushing beyond the boundaries of a CO's authority. Why not try to contact the cacher and ask them to edit their log or remove their revealing photo? Let them know you wish your cache to be a challenge and their log hurts the integrity of that challenge. Some CO's may consider posting spoilers in logs as hurting the game, but deleting a log for personal reasons (reasons that don't break the rules) sure isn't helping anything.

According to Groundspeak's Terms of Use Agreement, section 4(m):

 

You agree not to: ... Publish, on any Groundspeak owned web property, the solutions, hints, spoilers, or any hidden coordinates for any geocache without consent from the cache owner.

So, cache owners are within their rights to delete spoilers that they don't want on their cache pages. Groundspeak has supported them when they have deleted spoiler logs and/or photos.

 

Of course, it's good to be polite when making these deletions. As you noted, it's helpful to send an email to the cacher that explains the situation.

[+ras_oscar]

The CO is the arbitor who decides whether a post is a spoiler. Dem's the rules. If ya dont like em, you can filter out that CO's hides. I have only had one log deleted, and received a very nice note from the CO explaining why (no spoiler involved) Once I had the explanation I determined the deletion was justified.

[Pup Patrol]

But deleting logs for a reason that isn't against the guidelines is, in my opinion, pushing beyond the boundaries of a CO's authority.

 

This is covered quite nicely in the Help Center article:

 

6.8. Log Deletion

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=204

 

Logs can be deleted by the owner of the log, by the owner of the listing (the cache owner) and by site administrators. Logs that fail to meet stated requirements (such as Found It logs by people who have never found the cache) or logs that conflict with our Terms of Use Agreement may be deleted.

 

When a log is deleted, the owner of the log receives an email that generally looks like this:

 

[LOG] Log Deletion Notice

Your log entry for the listing Name of Listing (Cache Type) was deleted

by User Name at Date and Time

Visit this listing at the below address: listing URL

Profile for Deleting User: user profile URL

 

The deleted log can no longer be seen.

 

The count associated with that log is decreased.

 

The log cannot be restored by the log owner or listing owner.

 

Movements of Trackables associated with logs are not affected by log deletion. If a log is posted, and a Trackable is dropped with that log, deletion of the log will not affect the location of the Trackable.

 

FINDERS

Delete a log if you have accidentally logged the wrong listing. You may also want to delete a log if you have used a "Write Note" log just to drop a Trackable in a cache.

 

You can delete your own log by using the View / Edit Logs / Images link under your log. That link will open the log on its own page. Above the log you'll see a "Delete Log" button. You will be asked "Are you sure you want to delete this log entry?" and must click "Yes." This is permanent. You cannot restore the log.

 

Use your powers carefully. The complete set of logs tells the story of the cache or that Trackable Item. Once it is deleted, you cannot restore it.

 

If your log has been deleted by a listing owner and you feel that the deletion is in error, please politely send a message to the listing owner. You may also try re-logging the cache while avoiding any spoilers and meeting logging requirements.

 

OWNERS

It is one of your maintenance duties as the cache owner to monitor quality control of posts to the cache page. To this end, you have the power to delete logs.

 

Use your powers carefully. The complete set of logs tells the story of the cache or that Trackable Item. Once it is deleted, you cannot restore it. You also have the power to permanently encrypt a log, which is a nice alternative to deletion.

 

Many logging errors are simple mistakes. Assume the best and please deal kindly with logs that may be in error: Are they novices using "Found it!" for repeat visits? Are they cachers entering finds on the wrong cache page?

 

If you must, delete a log by using the View This Log link. That link will open the log on its own page. Above the log you'll see a "Delete Log" and a "Permanently Encrypt" button. If you choose to delete, you will be asked "Are you sure you want to delete this log entry?" and must click "Yes." Again: once it is deleted, you cannot restore it.

 

Additional notes:

 

1. See our guidelines for Logging of All Physical Caches.

 

2. If the geocacher has failed to meet logging requirements, please explain your concerns. Politely email the log owner before or immediately after you delete their log. If their log or photos contain spoilers, invite them to edit the log. If you have deleted the log already, invite them to re-log without the spoiler.

 

3. Deleting a log removes that log from the logger's history and from their profile. Not even the original author of that text can see it. The associated log count is decreased.

 

4. Deleting a "bug drop note" does not affect the Trackable mileage but may affect the log owner's happiness. Be careful.

 

5. Obscene and threatening language is a violation of our Terms of Use. The log can be deleted immediately. It may be better not to respond the log owner directly. If you wish, let Groundspeak know by submitting a request for assistance or emailing contact@geocaching.com.

 

6. Deleting a Needs Maintenance log will not clear the Needs Maintenance attribute from the listing. Log an Owner Maintenance to clear that attribute.

 

7. Needs Archived logs are forwarded to reviewers. Deleting the log does not affect this.

 

8. If you are a cache owner and have deleted a log in error, you can contact your local reviewer to restore the log, or you can contact a site administrator by submitting a request for assistance, or emailing contact@geocaching.com.

 

9. If you are a geocacher and you believe that your log was deleted in error, you will have politely emailed the cache owner requesting that the log be reinstated. If you require further assistance, please email contact@geocaching.com.

 

MESSY SITUATION?

We know that sometimes this issue can be contentious. If the other party is being stubborn, ask yourself, "Is this dispute really worth my time?" Try being the bigger person and conceding the point. You may discover that you feel better for doing so. At the very least, it will put the matter quickly behind you.

[+Sinver]

Some interesting points raised there and I would like to clarify some from my point of view if I may!

 

I never took pictures of the cache situated in gz, usually I moved to a more open area (checking for muggles of course!) but concede it never entered my head I might be spoiling. Naive of me I know, and I now don't publish photos.

 

I'm not a "stat padder" so don't really care about that little number next to my name, I do it to make walking the dog more interesting

 

Totally agree on just conceding the point and getting on with it. I genuinely don't know which we're deleted ( I know it was 3 ) as I received no email. If I work it out and they're available I'll do them again!

[+TL&MinBHIL]

Well since that is the case, I think it'd better serve Groundspeak to replace the spoiler warning present on every cache page with instructions NOT to post spoilers. It would serve a much better purpose there than buried within the TOS. And it would probably help cut down on spoilers posted within the logs. I can't be the only one who read that warning and assumed it meant they allowed spoilers, but if it had instead told me not to post spoilers in my logs, that gets the message across quite clearly.

[Pup Patrol]

Well since that is the case, I think it'd better serve Groundspeak to replace the spoiler warning present on every cache page with instructions NOT to post spoilers. It would serve a much better purpose there than buried within the TOS. And it would probably help cut down on spoilers posted within the logs. I can't be the only one who read that warning and assumed it meant they allowed spoilers, but if it had instead told me not to post spoilers in my logs, that gets the message across quite clearly.

 

It's not "buried" in the Help Center. Pretty easy to find it there.

 

 

B.