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Groundspeak encouraging throwdowns?


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In most cases, I would agree that replacing caches and helping others out is a good thing. However, there are many geocachers in these forums that seem to dislike others doing maintenance for them, or for others. Mingo comes to mind..

 

Sometimes nature takes a bite out of geocaches. Cache containers end up battered by weather or broken from regular use. Does one of your geocaches need a new logbook, is the container cracked, or did the pen or pencil in the cache disappear? The changing of the seasons is a perfectly timed reminder to check your caches.

 

And geocache maintenance is not just for geocache owners. Courteous geocachers often help with cache maintenance, which helps increase the quality of the game for all. It's easy. You simply bring additional supplies such as an extra geocache container, swag, logbooks, and pens on your geocaching adventures. That way you're prepared to help out another geocacher by fixing a cache that needs maintenance on the spot.

 

If you go geocaching on the spur of the moment and don't have supplies to fix up a cache that needs maintenance, visit Geocaching.com and report a 'Needs Maintenance' log on the cache page.

 

If you are a geocache owner here are three ways to help make geocache maintenance a breeze:

 

1. Place a cache that is durable and requires little or no upkeep

 

2. Periodically check on your cache both in person and via the cache page to see if there are any issues

 

3. If you see a 'Needs Maintenance' log on the cache page, fix the cache and post an 'Owner Maintenance' log

 

More helpful information on geocache maintenance can be found here: https://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=57

 

Thoughts? :ph34r:

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They are suggesting replacing damaged containers and logs, not unfound, presumed missing caches. It would have been nicer if they'd spelled this out, because I can easily see how someone would read it the way you did.

 

It would be nice if they wrote an article about HOW to do this courteously, and not create more problems than you solve.

 

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They are suggesting replacing damaged containers and logs, not unfound, presumed missing caches. It would have been nicer if they'd spelled this out, because I can easily see how someone would read it the way you did.

 

It would be nice if they wrote an article about HOW to do this courteously, and not create more problems than you solve.

 

True, they didn't exactly say "bring film cans in case you can't locate the cache". :anibad: But there are way too many variables here for them to make a statement like that in the newsletter. Would (or should) someone replace a cracked container for someone who hasn't logged into the website for 2 years, and has done nothing despite all the logs? Heck no.

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Agreed -- in the wide audience of the newsletter there will be a fair number that take it to mean "If you think it's missing you should replace it."

 

Groundspeak should have explained [in most cases] it's OK to replace a broken or cracked container with a similar [albeit unbroken] container, but not to "replace" a cache you think is missing.

 

When will the frog learn to run everything past the forums first before publishing to the unwashed masses? :laughing:

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Agreed -- in the wide audience of the newsletter there will be a fair number that take it to mean "If you think it's missing you should replace it."

 

Groundspeak should have explained [in most cases] it's OK to replace a broken or cracked container with a similar [albeit unbroken] container, but not to "replace" a cache you think is missing.

 

When will the frog learn to run everything past the forums first before publishing to the unwashed masses? :laughing:

 

Of all the things that they weekly newsletter could be used for (site changes, guidelines changes, new features) I do not understand why they are used to publish these fluffy little pieces that seem to be written for somebody that started caching yesterday and has never read a word of anything on the website.

 

There's a great opportunity for spreading some important information via the newsletter, but it's not being realized.

Edited by Castle Mischief
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The one caveat I think Groundspeak should have added:

 

Don't be a crappy cache enabler. If you've been caching for more than 10 minutes, you most likely know some guy who thinks he's actually doing the caching world a favor by carpet bombing areas with crappy hides, under the mistaken theory that quantity can somehow make up for lacks in quality. This is the guy who infects entire zip codes with inferior containers and abysmally boring cache names such as, "Trail Micro # 27, Trail Micro # 28, Trail Micro #29, etc, and copy/paste cache pages requiring all the imagination of a sponge.

 

There's at least one in every geological region. Sometimes the virus spreads, and you'll have more than one person spewing out carp into every nook and cranny, honestly believing that, "There isn't a cache within 600' of this uninspired stretch of roadway" is a perfectly legitimate excuse for yet another lame hide.

 

After you've been caching for 20 minutes, you realize that this champion of the numbers crowd cannot be bothered to do maintenance. The end result of these two discrepancies is you get an ever increasing number of crappy caches, which need maintenance. The micro-spew master never has to face the consequences of their actions, because those folks who find his wet, moldy logs will take care of their maintenance duties. This behavior enables them to hide even more trache.

 

The motto? Don't be a crappy cache enabler.

 

If you find an awesome hide, (or even a fairly decent hide), which is need of some TLC, do the owner a favor and fix it, if you can. But if you find a crappy cache, in need of maintenance, post a "Needs Maintenance" on it and walk away.

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This reminds me of a series of caches where the description stated that a container of replacement film canisters was at the park headquarters building/parking lot. It was recommended that cachers take a few with them along the trail to replace any that might be missing along the way. Talk about a real invitation for "throw downs." :(

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Since I am about location more than 'difficult hides', my caches tend to be in more 'out of the way' places. For the few urban caches, I will make a point to let folks know what container it is and where it is. If someone wants to replace a missing cahce for me, wonderful. I will tend to do the same when it makes sense to do so, expecially when I was in a war zone. While individual cache maintenance is a nice idealistic thought, helping each other does make more sense overall.

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:)

The one caveat I think Groundspeak should have added:

 

Don't be a crappy cache enabler. If you've been caching for more than 10 minutes, you most likely know some guy who thinks he's actually doing the caching world a favor by carpet bombing areas with crappy hides, under the mistaken theory that quantity can somehow make up for lacks in quality. This is the guy who infects entire zip codes with inferior containers and abysmally boring cache names such as, "Trail Micro # 27, Trail Micro # 28, Trail Micro #29, etc, and copy/paste cache pages requiring all the imagination of a sponge.

 

There's at least one in every geological region. Sometimes the virus spreads, and you'll have more than one person spewing out carp into every nook and cranny, honestly believing that, "There isn't a cache within 600' of this uninspired stretch of roadway" is a perfectly legitimate excuse for yet another lame hide.

 

After you've been caching for 20 minutes, you realize that this champion of the numbers crowd cannot be bothered to do maintenance. The end result of these two discrepancies is you get an ever increasing number of crappy caches, which need maintenance. The micro-spew master never has to face the consequences of their actions, because those folks who find his wet, moldy logs will take care of their maintenance duties. This behavior enables them to hide even more trache.

 

The motto? Don't be a crappy cache enabler.

 

If you find an awesome hide, (or even a fairly decent hide), which is need of some TLC, do the owner a favor and fix it, if you can. But if you find a crappy cache, in need of maintenance, post a "Needs Maintenance" on it and walk away.

 

While you do make some valid points. I think that you and others presume to lump anything that doesn't blow your aesthetic skirt up to be "carp, crap," or whatever negativity you want to insert in the blank.

 

Sometimes it's a noob who hasn't become jaded. But quickly get turned off by the type of judgements placed on their efforts by old dog geocachers like us.

 

Often times it's a kid who just wants to participate in the game and I can tell ya that it isn't pretty when the geocachers downing the kid's effort at an event are shocked to find the kid and his dad standing a few feet away. Worse, the kid had a learning disability and geocaching had been a breakthrough.

 

Geocaching is intrinsicly linked to other people. There is no room to heap negativity upon another's effort to participate in a game that relies on the good will of volunteer hiders. If you don't KNOW them personally, don't presume to know what their motives are and even then.... I've never found an LPC, guardrail, or dump site cache that crowded out a beautiful, aesthetically pleasing location within 528 feet.

 

I have passed up many a cache that didn't aesthetically float my boat. More caches than I have ever logged by far. It's not hard to do. Just take your foot off the brake and move on to the next waypoint or the next or the next. Anyone can do that and manage not to pour more negativity into a game we are all doing for fun.

Edited by Snoogans
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The one caveat I think Groundspeak should have added:

 

Don't be a crappy cache enabler. If you've been caching for more than 10 minutes, you most likely know some guy who thinks he's actually doing the caching world a favor by carpet bombing areas with crappy hides, under the mistaken theory that quantity can somehow make up for lacks in quality. This is the guy who infects entire zip codes with inferior containers and abysmally boring cache names such as, "Trail Micro # 27, Trail Micro # 28, Trail Micro #29, etc, and copy/paste cache pages requiring all the imagination of a sponge.

 

There's at least one in every geological region. Sometimes the virus spreads, and you'll have more than one person spewing out carp into every nook and cranny, honestly believing that, "There isn't a cache within 600' of this uninspired stretch of roadway" is a perfectly legitimate excuse for yet another lame hide.

 

After you've been caching for 20 minutes, you realize that this champion of the numbers crowd cannot be bothered to do maintenance. The end result of these two discrepancies is you get an ever increasing number of crappy caches, which need maintenance. The micro-spew master never has to face the consequences of their actions, because those folks who find his wet, moldy logs will take care of their maintenance duties. This behavior enables them to hide even more trache.

 

The motto? Don't be a crappy cache enabler.

 

If you find an awesome hide, (or even a fairly decent hide), which is need of some TLC, do the owner a favor and fix it, if you can. But if you find a crappy cache, in need of maintenance, post a "Needs Maintenance" on it and walk away.

 

The probability that GS will ever post something like this is as near to zero as anything is that is still physically possible. They will never print something that would alienate such a large portion of their user base. Even though I largely agree with you about these types of hides, I acknowledge that as much as I'd like for them to say this, they'd be pretty stupid to do it.

 

I wish they would publish an article on how to do maintenance and to explicitly tell people NOT to throw down a substantially different cache in lieu of logging DNF, and give some guidance on how to do helpful maintenance. You can't please everybody, but there are some common sense suggestions they could make. (Honestly the present article makes good suggestions, it just isn't explicit enough about some things.)

 

To be honest, replacing a missing film can LPC with another film can is not actually all that bad. The problems start when people apply this idea to non-trivial hides that they simply overlook.

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Of all the things that they weekly newsletter could be used for (site changes, guidelines changes, new features)

...

There's a great opportunity for spreading some important information via the newsletter, but it's not being realized.

That's a good point.

 

ROFLMAO been there.

 

I asked Groundspeak to include brief safety messages and encourage event hosts to give the same brief safety messages or include it as a topic of discussion at events.

 

I guess a few more folks will have to die before that becomes a good idea. <_<

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I think that you and others presume to lump anything that doesn't blow your aesthetic skirt up to be carp

I know that I am a fairly judgmental person, but I think you're off base a bit with that generalization. There are hordes, literally, huge freeking gobs of caches that don't apply upward drafts to my caching aesthetic kilt. The vast majority of these are perfectly fine caches. Just not my cup of Earl Grey. Because I apply the patent pending Sbell111 Easy Peasy method for increasing caching pleasure, most of these never appear on my radar, though, on occasion, a few will trickle through. When I find myself approaching something that doesn't hold much appeal to me, I move on, as you suggest. I've been doing this for years now.

 

None of these perfectly fine caches are carp.

They are just not fun, for me.

Other folks like them just fine.

No worries on my end.

 

To earn the negative label of 'Carp', from me, a cache has to be really, really bad. You've seen the thread about crappy cache containers. This is the type of trache I'm talking about. And 'that guy' I mentioned, who exists in every geographic region, hides them by the dozens, or even hundreds. I commend those who are tolerant enough to forgive such pollution. But I am not part of that group. Noob or old timer doesn't really matter. It's not learning from one's mistakes that matters. Drivel like that does nothing to advance our hobby, and could even cause it harm. I know if I had found nothing but carp when I started playing, I probably wouldn't be here today. If you do believe that some caches are carp, you can speak out, or you can join the proverbial three monkeys, covering your eyes, ears and mouth, rather than address the problem.

 

From here in the cheap seats, speaking out seems more effective.

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Since I am about location more than 'difficult hides', my caches tend to be in more 'out of the way' places. For the few urban caches, I will make a point to let folks know what container it is and where it is. If someone wants to replace a missing cahce for me, wonderful. I will tend to do the same when it makes sense to do so, expecially when I was in a war zone. While individual cache maintenance is a nice idealistic thought, helping each other does make more sense overall.

 

I mostly disagree. War Zone? Special case, I agree with helping out. Roadside micro power trails? I'd totally disagree, although it absolutely has been shown that power trail placers can "get away" with encouraging throw-downs on the cache page (The State sponsored power trail in Delaware), or can join that website some guy in Colorado created, and put a little ambulance graphic (or whatever it is) on your cache page encouraging throw-downs. :huh:

 

Do you "help out" the person I gave an example of in post #3 or #4? Hasn't logged into the website in 2 years, and done nothing about a cracked container? No, you log an SBA so someone else can place a cache in the area of they so choose (in my opinion).

 

Clan Riffster took a little heat about some of the language in his post, such as "crappy cache enabler", and "Trache", but I'm sure he's just messing around. :D His main point? There are people out there throwing out caches they have no intention of ever maintaining, probably had no intention of ever visiting the site again, and I don't feel they should be "helped out".

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While you do make some valid points. I think that you and others presume to lump anything that doesn't blow your aesthetic skirt up to be "carp, crap," or whatever negativity you want to insert in the blank.

 

Sometimes it's a noob who hasn't become jaded. But quickly get turned off by the type of judgements placed on their efforts by old dog geocachers like us.

 

Often times it's a kid who just wants to participate in the game and I can tell ya that it isn't pretty when the geocachers downing the kid's effort at an event are shocked to find the kid and his dad standing a few feet away. Worse, the kid had a learning disability and geocaching had been a breakthrough.

 

Geocaching is intrinsicly linked to other people. There is no room to heap negativity upon another's effort to participate in a game that relies on the good will of volunteer hiders. If you don't KNOW them personally, don't presume to know what their motives are and even then.... I've never found an LPC, guardrail, or dump site cache that crowded out a beautiful, aesthetically pleasing location within 528 feet.

 

I have passed up many a cache that didn't aesthetically float my boat. More caches than I have ever logged by far. It's not hard to do. Just take your foot off the brake and move on to the next waypoint or the next or the next. Anyone can do that and manage not to pour more negativity into a game we are all doing for fun.

+1

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Repair is great. Adding pens/pencils logbooks - all ok. Adding protection for broken cache - ok.

 

I just have to agree that replacing what somebody perceives as a missing cache - really bad idea.

 

However well meaning you may be (..and I really do appreciate that) please let me decide whether a cache is really missing and if I am willing to replace it with one of own containers or whether it is time to just archive the listing.

 

Either way, it is simply silly to log a throwndown replacement as a "find". You didn't find anything - you placed.

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This thread makes me think long and hard about cache maintenance. It is certainly a topic that makes some folks cringe, but it all comes down to accountability.

 

If a cacher places a cache, they should be the front line to maintenance. The idea that anyone and everyone can and should feel an obligation to maintain someone else's cache is sad. Now, I'll happily add dry sheets, a new baggie, or dry a container if I'm prepared. However, assuming that I should drop a new container or replace an entire cache log and contents is sad.

 

This ignores, in my opinion, the tools we are provided to report caches that are damaged, missing, etc. With more and more cachers coming to the activity, there are more and more caches. There is no official training on cache placement, design or maintenance. Anything goes, essentially. If someone wants to throw down a leaky bottle with a small log and no protective baggie, they can. But, as soon as someone calls that cache out for being a moldy, wet, unsignable mess, they might get labelled a "cache nazi".

 

So, it really comes down to owners taking ownership of their hides, and follows the guidelines to help make for a cache requiring minimal maintenance. If caches are logged "Needs Maintenance", the owner should take a look. It just makes sense. If a cache goes without maintenance for a long period of time, I don't see why it is a bad thing to log a "Needs Archived" note. (Surely, we can all look back on all of the conversations about NM/NA logs and argue on and on about how you do it, and how you think I should do it...let's just not go there)

 

No matter the cognitive or physical ability of a cache hider, I don't see why posting a NM or NA log is met with such anger or frustration. Placing a cache should come along with the knowledge that you might encounter the use of these effective, necessary tools on your cache page. When used properly and with careful reflection, the NM/NA logs are a good way to provide notification and constructive criticism. Via digital medium (email), getting your message across is difficult. All to often, bringing up something as simple as how a cache is against the law, or does not have proper permissions is met with anger.

 

So, is this excerpt from Groundspeak skirting the overarching issue of owners taking care of their own caches? I think so. Why don't they send out a reminder to all geocachers that they are responsible for their caches and cache listings, and that when someone uses a NM/NA log, they should take the time to check on their caches and repair/replace/remove as necessary?

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I must say, I do travel with an extra container most of the time but not for the purpose of replacing someone else's. I merely travel with it in case I find a good place to hide it, which I'm too nervous to do, especially after reading about terrible cache hides. I hid 3 in my hometown as a noob and I admit they aren't the greatest. One was in an absolutely horrendous spot! I'm thankful for the cachers who alerted me to when it went missing from a flood and when the 2nd container was drenched inside. My caches are like my babies and I feel responsible to keep them clean and happy. If only everyone felt that way.

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No matter the cognitive or physical ability of a cache hider, I don't see why posting a NM or NA log is met with such anger or frustration. Placing a cache should come along with the knowledge that you might encounter the use of these effective, necessary tools on your cache page. When used properly and with careful reflection, the NM/NA logs are a good way to provide notification and constructive criticism. Via digital medium (email), getting your message across is difficult. All to often, bringing up something as simple as how a cache is against the law, or does not have proper permissions is met with anger.

 

I think that the basic reason such "criticisms" are often met with anger is that many people are simply not experienced at receiving constructive criticism, and so any criticism is met with anger and defensiveness. It takes practice (or the right disposition) not to view honest criticism as a personal attack. It also takes a certain amount of judgement to learn how to recognize the difference between:

1. That is your OPINION of a problem - thanks but I think this is fine (not all honest criticism is actually correct.)

2. Oh heck you are right! That is a real problem - fix incoming!

3. Well that certainly was neither constructive nor helpful, kindly go and pound sand....

#3 brings up the issue that many peole also don't know how to GIVE constructive criticism.

 

We do not appear to be a society that values direct, honest speech very much right now, at least not in general. So we shouldn't be surprised that people don't react well to it, because I think many people don't have much experience with it.

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Woo, this is a hot one. I'm still new, but I can tell that a micro in a parking lot is going to be boring and disappointing. I regularly think of the wise words about how to place a cache that include putting it somewhere you would want to go for a reason OTHER than the numbers. All of the best finds I've found are off the beaten path. Then again, some real garbage ones have been as well.

 

I just hope that when I DO decide to place a cache that others will find it enjoyable. I hope to earn some favorite points. I hope people find it and say "man, I never knew this place existed." I also hope that, as per what this discussion started as, if it needs help a loving cacher would provide it.

 

I haven't even hit my first hundo yet but I help maintain others caches. If it's missing it's missing and it's not my responsibility, nor anyone other than the CO, to fix it. I do, however, come armed with extra logs, baggies (in three sizes), and swag.

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The one caveat I think Groundspeak should have added:

 

Don't be a crappy cache enabler. If you've been caching for more than 10 minutes, you most likely know some guy who thinks he's actually doing the caching world a favor by carpet bombing areas with crappy hides, under the mistaken theory that quantity can somehow make up for lacks in quality. This is the guy who infects entire zip codes with inferior containers and abysmally boring cache names such as, "Trail Micro # 27, Trail Micro # 28, Trail Micro #29, etc, and copy/paste cache pages requiring all the imagination of a sponge.

 

There's at least one in every geological region. Sometimes the virus spreads, and you'll have more than one person spewing out carp into every nook and cranny, honestly believing that, "There isn't a cache within 600' of this uninspired stretch of roadway" is a perfectly legitimate excuse for yet another lame hide.

 

After you've been caching for 20 minutes, you realize that this champion of the numbers crowd cannot be bothered to do maintenance. The end result of these two discrepancies is you get an ever increasing number of crappy caches, which need maintenance. The micro-spew master never has to face the consequences of their actions, because those folks who find his wet, moldy logs will take care of their maintenance duties. This behavior enables them to hide even more trache.

 

The motto? Don't be a crappy cache enabler.

 

If you find an awesome hide, (or even a fairly decent hide), which is need of some TLC, do the owner a favor and fix it, if you can. But if you find a crappy cache, in need of maintenance, post a "Needs Maintenance" on it and walk away.

 

Unless it's really old, right? Then it becomes proxy maintenance. :P

Edited by Castle Mischief
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No matter the cognitive or physical ability of a cache hider, I don't see why posting a NM or NA log is met with such anger or frustration. Placing a cache should come along with the knowledge that you might encounter the use of these effective, necessary tools on your cache page. When used properly and with careful reflection, the NM/NA logs are a good way to provide notification and constructive criticism. Via digital medium (email), getting your message across is difficult. All to often, bringing up something as simple as how a cache is against the law, or does not have proper permissions is met with anger.

 

I think that the basic reason such "criticisms" are often met with anger is that many people are simply not experienced at receiving constructive criticism, and so any criticism is met with anger and defensiveness. It takes practice (or the right disposition) not to view honest criticism as a personal attack. It also takes a certain amount of judgement to learn how to recognize the difference between:

1. That is your OPINION of a problem - thanks but I think this is fine (not all honest criticism is actually correct.)

2. Oh heck you are right! That is a real problem - fix incoming!

3. Well that certainly was neither constructive nor helpful, kindly go and pound sand....

#3 brings up the issue that many peole also don't know how to GIVE constructive criticism.

 

We do not appear to be a society that values direct, honest speech very much right now, at least not in general. So we shouldn't be surprised that people don't react well to it, because I think many people don't have much experience with it.

 

IMHO, all true but the reverse is also true. Criticism is more easily taken if prefaced with a positive statement. Electronic media shortens the conversation and eliminates non verbal ques that we all respond to as members of the human species. When one takes a thoughtfull comment such as "cache is wet, container cracked and should be replaced, and applies an image of previous criticism which may have been mean spirited, the message received can be quite different from what was intended. IMHO, a better approach to the message above would be " lovely day caching, thanks for bringing me to this obscure park. I never knew it was here. The container is cracked. I mopped it out as much as possible but it will likely get wet at the next rain and should be replaced as soon as possible. Added a dry log in a zlock which should be good for a dozen more finds or so."

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We do not appear to be a society that values direct, honest speech very much right now, at least not in general. So we shouldn't be surprised that people don't react well to it, because I think many people don't have much experience with it.

 

IMHO, all true but the reverse is also true. Criticism is more easily taken if prefaced with a positive statement.

 

Thanks, that is an excellent point and one that I shouldn't have missed - where I work there is a core value of "direct and honest expression." While this is largely a beneficial mindset, there are some who forget that "direct and honest criticism" are not a synonym for "act like a total d-bag while pointing out a flaw in something."

 

Unfortuantely, you are totally right - electronic communication does not always engender civil discourse.

 

Thank you for your thoughtful reply!

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To earn the negative label of 'Carp', from me, a cache has to be really, really bad. You've seen the thread about crappy cache containers. This is the type of trache I'm talking about. And 'that guy' I mentioned, who exists in every geographic region, hides them by the dozens, or even hundreds. I commend those who are tolerant enough to forgive such pollution. But I am not part of that group. Noob or old timer doesn't really matter. It's not learning from one's mistakes that matters. Drivel like that does nothing to advance our hobby, and could even cause it harm. I know if I had found nothing but carp when I started playing, I probably wouldn't be here today. If you do believe that some caches are carp, you can speak out, or you can join the proverbial three monkeys, covering your eyes, ears and mouth, rather than address the problem.

 

From here in the cheap seats, speaking out seems more effective.

 

I appreciate your opposing viewpoint. We just see things differently.

 

There is a hider here that does not do a stellar job with his hides,(container,location,maintenance) yet I will stop and find his caches whenever I can. I do this because even though some would call his physical contributions trache, his cache pages and cache names are always fun and thoughtful. And he's a heckuva nice guy to see around at events. I wouldn't dream of expecting more from him. His contribution is enough....for me.

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His contribution is enough....for me.

That's kewl. It's you I credit with a phrase I state often:

"If you're not having fun playing this game, you're doing it wrong."

 

Yep. That was me. I believe I first said it in one of my epic debates with Coyote Red. I really miss Coyote Red in this forum. :sad:

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Sweet... No more DNFs. :laughing:

 

Also, it is much easier finding a pile of containers than to try to find a single one.

And if there are plenty of containers at one cache, you could swipe a few to use as throwdowns at other caches you can't find! Yay, now I can log finds on those needle-in-a-haystack caches!

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This reminds me of a series of caches where the description stated that a container of replacement film canisters was at the park headquarters building/parking lot. It was recommended that cachers take a few with them along the trail to replace any that might be missing along the way. Talk about a real invitation for "throw downs." :(

they're probably all 1/1's.

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We're usually good at maintenance, having a problem (on home turf) once when on vacation in another State.

If that rare time comes when we can't do maintenance within a few days, I'd appreciate a pencil (that another took as swag) or a replacement paper for the (rarer) full log. Most of the "full log" notes we get fail to mention there's another side to the log, still untouched. :rolleyes:

- But I don't want anyone replacing my containers for me.

I feel an error was made in this latest newsletter, making it sound as if container replacement is the norm.

Most of our smaller hides aren't going to be copied in the field, so we'd have to go out to remove the "replacement" to place another unique container anyway. That's what a NM is for and we respond, thank you.

The rest of ours are mostly ammo cans.

 

- "Couldn't find ammo can. No worries, please see pic of camo'd pill bottle with a NEW log! You're welcome!"

No, I don't see this as a good thing either.

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I do alot of cleaning and stocking on caches I find along the way. I have only physically replaced a container once. Sort of. There's a cache near my home that is a 4/4 and when I found it, it was no where near waterproof. Not even close. The cache contents were protected only by a fabric sack of sorts. I loved the cache, so I messaged the owner. And waited, and waited, and waited. So I messaged again and never got a reply. It was at this point that I went and purchased a water tight container, went back to GZ, and took all of the swag out and put it in the container and put the container in the sack. I have been watching the cache (and two other of this owners that I liked) for quite some time now. To encourage people to essentially just make their own cache just because they couldn't find the real one is frankly, deplorable.

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I can see fixing a problem such as drying out a cache or adding new log as being helpful. Even replacing a cache that is cracked or broken and then letting the CO know. However, there is a HUGE difference between fixing a minor problem with a cache, and the fairy tale delusional idea of throwing down a film can when you can't find the perfectly fine cache because you just don't to look.

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I can see fixing a problem such as drying out a cache or adding new log as being helpful. Even replacing a cache that is cracked or broken and then letting the CO know. However, there is a HUGE difference between fixing a minor problem with a cache, and the fairy tale delusional idea of throwing down a film can when you can't find the perfectly fine cache because you just don't to look.

+1

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I've only replaced a cache container once and it was a trade up for the cache which was at that point a rusty coffee can with an inherently ill fitting lid. But I also lugged a cache of comparable size out there and placed it exactly where the old cache was. Added some new swag and salvaged the old log book. It wasn't a cache that was often found and it was quite a trek up there and the cache owner isn't around much anymore.

 

I wish more emphasis would have been put in the newsletter on cache owners taking care of their own caches instead of throwing stuff out there and ignoring problems. There's a prolific cacher in the area that has a ton of caches out that are never maintained. So basically the article insinuates that to be a good cacher I have to maintain those caches for him? How about he doesn't put out stuff he doesn't intend to take care of?

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There's a prolific cacher in the area that has a ton of caches out that are never maintained. So basically the article insinuates that to be a good cacher I have to maintain those caches for him? How about he doesn't put out stuff he doesn't intend to take care of?

 

I agree.

Besides location, I stopped doing micros due to all their maintenance issues.

One day I sent seven emails to the same cacher for seven separate hides.

All said, "Replaced your soaked calendar page with a Rite-In-Rain strip. Want the original?" Never received a reply.

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I've only replaced a cache container once and it was a trade up for the cache which was at that point a rusty coffee can with an inherently ill fitting lid. But I also lugged a cache of comparable size out there and placed it exactly where the old cache was. Added some new swag and salvaged the old log book. It wasn't a cache that was often found and it was quite a trek up there and the cache owner isn't around much anymore.

 

I wish more emphasis would have been put in the newsletter on cache owners taking care of their own caches instead of throwing stuff out there and ignoring problems. There's a prolific cacher in the area that has a ton of caches out that are never maintained. So basically the article insinuates that to be a good cacher I have to maintain those caches for him? How about he doesn't put out stuff he doesn't intend to take care of?

A NM would be the correct maintainence for those caches. Followed by an NA when nothing is done. <_<

 

 

Never, never, never hide anything you can't or you don't intend to maintain properly.

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Put me in the camp that thinks this was a poorly worded but well intended idea by GS in the newsletter. I tote around spare containers in my pack, but it's primarily in case I want to hide a cache. I'm not great about packing around logs though <_<

 

I'm surprised nobody's yet touched on cacher population. Around here, there are really less than 10 active cachers. Sure, every now and then somebody pokes their head out from under a log (or real life as it may be) but for the most part, it's just the few of us. I'm much more apt to replace a container around here, as I know most people and know whether they want the container replaced, whether they're likely to do maintainence on their own, or whether they'll just archive it because "this one had a good run."

 

Out of town? Nope, I'm not about to stick my nose in somebody else's bowl of cheerios.

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I'm surprised nobody's yet touched on cacher population. Around here, there are really less than 10 active cachers. Sure, every now and then somebody pokes their head out from under a log (or real life as it may be) but for the most part, it's just the few of us. I'm much more apt to replace a container around here, as I know most people and know whether they want the container replaced, whether they're likely to do maintainence on their own, or whether they'll just archive it because "this one had a good run."

Very good point. I just checked with GSAK, and in my area there are caches hidden by over 360 owners. I probably know about 50 of them well enough to make such a determination on whether I would perform maintenance, so the odds of me replacing a container for someone is pretty low. Anyway, for the most part, the cachers in my area fall into 2 major categories:

 

1. Active cacher: These hide lots of caches, find lots of caches, and keep their caches well-maintained. There's usually no need to perform maintenance for them, but if there was, I'd probably log a NM and let them fix it how they want.

End result: I don't do any maintenance (except the occasional minor thing like add a log sheet).

 

2. Inactive cacher: These cachers hid a cache or two (or sometimes more) at some point, but are either no longer caching, or only find the occasional cache. They don't maintain their caches. I'm not going to do their work for them, so I'll probably log a NM and if they don't fix it, later log a NA.

End result: I don't do any maintenance.

 

2. a. A sub-section of the Inactive cachers: The cachers that no longer find caches, but still keep up the maintenance of their caches. Again, like category 1, there's usually no need to perform maintenance for them, but if there was, I'd probably log a NM and let them fix it how they want.

End result: I don't do any maintenance (except the occasional minor thing like add a log sheet).

 

Notice that nowhere in there do I replace a container. The most I'd normally do is add a log sheet. The only exception would be in the case of a cache falling under category 1 that may be way out in the bush or otherwise difficult to access. If I'm there, and there's a wet log or cracked container, I'd consider fixing it so the owner doesn't have to make the trek. I would only do this if I know the cacher well enough to know whether they'd be OK with my doing so.

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Of all the things that they weekly newsletter could be used for (site changes, guidelines changes, new features)

...

There's a great opportunity for spreading some important information via the newsletter, but it's not being realized.

That's a good point.

+1. A lot of missed potential with the newsletter. I get it but rarely read it.

 

OT: I always appreciate folks replacing baggies and other maintenance on my caches, but throw-down replacements are not welcome. Last year, a geo-pal couldn't find one of my more remote caches so put out a replacement. Turns out my original cache was there, in the same location, about six inches from his throwdown. After I checked on it, I regretfully informed him I'd have to disallow his Find log since he didn't find it.

Edited by hydnsek
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Love Knowschad's reply. :laughing: :laughing:

 

I gasped when I read the newsletter. I'm glad to see other people not just taking it at face value.

I'd be willing to bet it was written with damaged cache containers in mind, but I do wish it had of been clear about that.

Perhaps someone who doesn't cache wrote it, so wasn't clear on the distinction.

 

Yes, and I agree with someone else. They really ought to have us guys on the forums review these newsletters before they put them out to the general population. :laughing: :laughing:

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