Dying Finding a Cache...

[+mike-ski]

Just for background… First let me say I have been a little less active over the past year due to kids leaving the nest and the passing of my father…things have change around the house. However I find my self finding a few caches from time to time and just not logging them but I still consider myself a geocacher. Before I slowed things down the wife and I managed to have over 300 finds under our belts so I would not consider us necessarily n00bs. And in my profession I investigate fatality and/or serious injury vehicle accidents…so I am somewhat sensitive as you will see.

 

Anyway a week ago Sunday the wife and I decided to go for an early morning breakfast in Hot Springs, AR. It was a very rainy, wet morning and a few miles from our home along Arkansas State Highway 9. We came around this blind curve that comes off a hill and a car is stopped in the middle of a small bridge at the bottom. The bridge has no shoulder, just barely wide enough for traffic. Slowing down thinking there may be a problem I see a man out looking for something. As the man was picking at the base of the sign next to bridge I new what he was looking for. I am sure in your area and in at least ours is the typical PNG film canister at the base of the post. As I was looking, my eye caught a large dually truck coming down off the hill from the other direction, which again is a blind curve. Right then I thought of a half dozen scenarios…none of which was very good.

 

Nothing happen thank God, but still this guy had not found the cache as it was actually on the guardrail... which means he hung around to find the cache (with the car still on the bridge)…and the sad thing is there was a large driveway not more than 25 yards for the guard rail the gave ample parking and safety. There is seven day a week hauling of timber on that road, let alone the typical traffic that for the average driver is not expecting someone stopped ON a narrow bridge.

 

I know folks that that to many of us (which includes me) “it’s all about the numbers” but there is one number you don’t want to be called. My kids would spit on my grave if I killed myself doing something stupid for such a meaningless thing as a signature on a piece of paper. (in this guys instance, a stamp) The sad thing is there always two parties involved, let alone in the occurrence of the accident… you may not kill the dorf that has made the dangerous situation but because of the reaction of other drivers they kill themselves or others.

 

Please guys… none of this is worth that.

 

The wife and I went back this Sunday to find the cache; another sad thing was is that the cache was wet. The container was very well made and should of kept log dry. Let alone the "almost got killed finding a cache" issue is the fact of not taking care of someones cache.

 

Here is the cache if you care to look.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=1bd1f630-e202-4de1-9f28-ef979b82d3e4

 

Maybe you can help with this one…something did not add up with one of the guys that found it. He is a very active cacher but looking at his stats with over 28,000 finds to his name. Looking at his numbers it says the most he found in one day was 1184.How can that even be?

[+StarBrand]

.....

Looking at his numbers it says the most he found in one day was 1184.How can that even be?

 

 

Although much the method(s) are a bit questionable, It can and has been done along special "power trails".

 

As for safety, yup - gotta agree, some Geocachers just don't make it much of a priority when seeking caches. I know when to walk away, some folks don't.

[+Ms.Scrabbler]

since some have no common sense, the CO could put parking coords

[+StarBrand]

since some have no common sense, the CO could put parking coords

I had parking coords on one of mine plus a general admonition in the text to NOT drive across the area due to both hazards and the fact that it is a wildlife area. Before I archived it, I'll bet 50% of logs mentioned driving right up to the cache instead of the .33 mile walk from parking. 3 logs mentioned flat tires. ---- no accounting for stupid.

[+Walts Hunting]

Since he didn't get hurt there is no problem. This hobby places responsibility on the seeker to not go where he isn't comfortable.

 

Actually 1184 in a day would be sneered at by the real power trailers. Not sure if they would even let such a light weight buy them a beer.

[+cheech gang]

Do you really think parking coordinates are required? Looks kind of obvious. Why park ON the bridge? I agree, no accounting for STUPID.

 

 

Edited March 19, 2012 by cheech gang

[+A & J Tooling]

I've seen people in offical vehicles grabbing caches in no parking areas. I luv those ones. Gotta' set a good example.

[+mike-ski]

Do you really think parking coordinates are required? Looks kind of obvious. Why park ON the bridge? I agree, no accounting for STUPID.

 

 

 

EXACTLY CORRECT...there is a very ice gate there that you could almost part a semi at. There was no reason.

 

As far as a power trail 1184 divided by 24hrs... that's nearly 49 per hour straight. If there is a power trail like that out there that you can do this...I'm kind of thinking that's it not what this sport is about and IMHO that it you need to get your numbers like that...well OK...it doesn't impress me.

[+DragonsWest]

Part of being a mature, sensible (yes, there is such a thing) GeoCacher is pulling up near a hide, realizing it isn't safe and moving on. Not all caches must be found.

[Mr.Yuck]

Do you really think parking coordinates are required? Looks kind of obvious. Why park ON the bridge? I agree, no accounting for STUPID.

 

 

 

EXACTLY CORRECT...there is a very ice gate there that you could almost part a semi at. There was no reason.

 

As far as a power trail 1184 divided by 24hrs... that's nearly 49 per hour straight. If there is a power trail like that out there that you can do this...I'm kind of thinking that's it not what this sport is about and IMHO that it you need to get your numbers like that...well OK...it doesn't impress me.

 

Well, a series of rural roadside park-n-grab micros (and I see there are many of these between Little Rock and Hot Springs) isn't a heck of a lot different than those power trails. I'm not a fan of any rural roadside micro series with a "number in it's name" such as the cache you're talking about. But it's clear from your on the ground experience in the area, and the Google street view, that this guy could have been much more concerned about Safety, and parked in a much better spot.

[+captnemo]

You can't fix stupid and common sense isn't common. 1184 in a day can be done but I can't think of any reason to do so.

[+dakboy]

To die is to be a counterfeit' date=' for he is but the counterfeit of

a man who hath not the life of a man; but to counterfeit dying,

when a man thereby liveth, is to be no counterfeit, but the true

and perfect image of life indeed. The better part of valor is

discretion, in the which better part I have sav'd my life.[/quote']

 

If applied to more life situations (not just caching), peoples' lives would have remarkably less drama & danger.

[+larryc43230]

Part of being a mature, sensible (yes, there is such a thing) GeoCacher is pulling up near a hide, realizing it isn't safe and moving on. Not all caches must be found.

Or, you can do what I did several times on Saturday. Over the course of the day, I found a total of 14 caches, which is about average for me for one day. On several occasions that day, I drove as close as I could to GZ and saw immediately that there wasn't a safe place to park at that spot. I double-checked my GPS and confirmed that the cache owner hadn't provided parking coordinates. Not being in this for the numbers , I took the time to find a safe place to turn around, then drove back slowly and eventually found a nice safe place to park, then walked to the cache.

 

It's called common sense, and being willing to take the time to do it right, and do it safely. Oh, and not being allergic to walking a few tenths of a mile helps.

 

Most important, perhaps: As DragonsWest put it, not all caches must be found. The same day I found those 14 caches, I took a pass on one that wasn't worth risking my safety for.

 

--Larry

Edited March 19, 2012 by larryc43230

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Since he didn't get hurt there is no problem.

 

Seriously?

[+dakboy]

Since he didn't get hurt there is no problem.

 

Seriously?

Maybe no problem for the general public's perception of geocachers (no story on the news about some loon getting hit while looking for a hide-a-key stuck to the bridge), but someone who says "well, I didn't get hurt this time, so it's perfectly safe to do without worry in the future" needs an adjustment IMHO.

[+The A-Team]

I bet this guy was one of the ones that was stopping in the middle of the road while doing the original ET Highway and got it archived. Doesn't care about anyone else or anything except the numbers, not even his own safety. It's behaviour like this that gets caching banned in areas. Like larryc43230, I use common sense when parking. If I don't see a good spot the first time by, I'll either turn around at the next safe spot and check some more, or just pass on it and do some research when I get home (check Google Streetview, read past logs, etc.).

[+The A-Team]

Also note the mention in the log of "Day 3 of the Arkansas / Mississippi cache run". They were all about the numbers. They found 245 that day. Parking anywhere other than directly in front of the cache would take too much time out of their numbers run.

[+Lucybean&Sam]

I haven't gotten past the 1184 in one day! How is that possible? But agree you need to be conscious of your own safety.

[+DragonsWest]

You can't fix stupid and common sense isn't common. 1184 in a day can be done but I can't think of any reason to do so.

 

Repeat after me, the Caching Monk Mantra: Geocaching means different things to different people.

[+Mr.Benchmark]

Anyway a week ago Sunday the wife and I decided to go for an early morning breakfast in Hot Springs, AR. It was a very rainy, wet morning and a few miles from our home along Arkansas State Highway 9. We came around this blind curve that comes off a hill and a car is stopped in the middle of a small bridge at the bottom. The bridge has no shoulder, just barely wide enough for traffic. Slowing down thinking there may be a problem I see a man out looking for something. As the man was picking at the base of the sign next to bridge I new what he was looking for. I am sure in your area and in at least ours is the typical PNG film canister at the base of the post. As I was looking, my eye caught a large dually truck coming down off the hill from the other direction, which again is a blind curve. Right then I thought of a half dozen scenarios…none of which was very good.

 

Nothing happen thank God, but still this guy had not found the cache as it was actually on the guardrail... which means he hung around to find the cache (with the car still on the bridge)…and the sad thing is there was a large driveway not more than 25 yards for the guard rail the gave ample parking and safety. There is seven day a week hauling of timber on that road, let alone the typical traffic that for the average driver is not expecting someone stopped ON a narrow bridge.

 

Did you at least yell at this guy to move his car off the bridge? You are right, it sounds like he could've caused a serious accident doing that. I sometimes think that certain roadside hides are actually amongst the more dangerous caches simply because of the traffic hazard. Or you could have written down his license plate #, and called the police / state troopers and reported him if he was posing a hazard on that bridge.

 

BTW, if you are professionally involved in assessing risks in traffic situations, if you feel this particular location is just too risky, you can post a "NA" log on the cache and state your background and reasoning. (For example, even if there is relatively safe parking nearby, I suppose someone coming around a blind curve onto a bridge could be startled seeing a pedestrian on the bridge, leading to an accident as the driver over reacts.) I'm not suggesting these things are bad in general, but perhaps this particular placement is simply poorly chosen? If the main problem is just the selfishness and idiocy of the finder you came across, I wouldn't think that was reason for archival.

[+CanadianRockies]

I haven't gotten past the 1184 in one day! How is that possible?

Click on

, and watch a YouTube video of geocachers finding three power trail caches in less than three minutes. Edited March 19, 2012 by CanadianRockies

[+SwineFlew]

Speed caching make cachers do stupid things.

[+SwineFlew]

I haven't gotten past the 1184 in one day! How is that possible?

Click on

, and watch a YouTube video of geocachers finding three power trail caches in less than three minutes.

Some of those logs in there is funny as hell.

[+mike-ski]

 

Did you at least yell at this guy to move his car off the bridge? You are right, it sounds like he could've caused a serious accident doing that. I sometimes think that certain roadside hides are actually amongst the more dangerous caches simply because of the traffic hazard. Or you could have written down his license plate #, and called the police / state troopers and reported him if he was posing a hazard on that bridge.

 

BTW, if you are professionally involved in assessing risks in traffic situations, if you feel this particular location is just too risky, you can post a "NA" log on the cache and state your background and reasoning. (For example, even if there is relatively safe parking nearby, I suppose someone coming around a blind curve onto a bridge could be startled seeing a pedestrian on the bridge, leading to an accident as the driver over reacts.) I'm not suggesting these things are bad in general, but perhaps this particular placement is simply poorly chosen? If the main problem is just the selfishness and idiocy of the finder you came across, I wouldn't think that was reason for archival.

 

Let me say this...

 

As just about in all accidents...they happen quickly in(ms) and the on coming traffic really prevented me on telling him what he should be doing. Plus, really not knowing who this guy was I had my wife with me and I was not going to give it a chance on what his response would be. Folks have gotten shot for less...and many of you have run into cachers that have taken this so seriously that they would almost sacrifice their first born over this activity. If this guy had already thrown caution to the wind...what else would he do.

 

As far as the safety of this cache...I personally have no problem with it. Like I said it has a very visible road leading to a very prominent ranch in the area with great parking. I probably would of placed one here, maybe put it in a different place just because I hate guard rail or sign post caches. The only problem was the stupidity of parking on a narrow bridge to find the the cache, in the rain non the less.

 

Another point to add...just because nothing happen when he jumped over the line this time...all that does is make you braver to do something more risky in future.

 

As far as power trails, I have no problem with them...I have done couple myself. I think the most was 18 or 20 in a day or something close to that. But still 245 in a day, that number still too obscure to call it legitimate. Plus you have a buddy as a driver...he gets the credit too?

 

One thing I like about caching is that it is individualized... Call me weird, the wife an love doing old bridges and cemeteries.

[+jellis]

Now I noticed they don't have it on Geocaching's home page but they do have a disclaimer on the app.

"Please be Advised: Geocaching can be dangerous! You assume all risks arising in connection with seeking a Geocache and/or using this Geocaching application."

[+mike-ski]

One last thing...how many of those 245 logs on that day they stamped are still dry. I venture to say prolly not many.

[I!]

Is it normal to allow character-assassination threads to run unfettered? Hello, michigan_chris!

[+SwineFlew]

One last thing...how many of those 245 logs on that day they stamped are still dry. I venture to say prolly not many.

Dont worry, there is a method that some power trailer use that will keep things fresh.

[+lamoracke]

course, even a cache not associated with a power trail can get crazy parking. I hate power number caching and side of the road power trails, but that does not mean reckless parking in the middle of the road or bridge happens just on them. I am known amongst my friends to be on the low end of the parking risk spectrum.

Edited March 19, 2012 by lamoracke

[+mike-ski]

Is it normal to allow character-assassination threads to run unfettered? Hello, michigan_chris!

 

I'm sure someone PM'd him and his buddy already. He's probably a nice guy... just a not-so-smart move.

[+the4dirtydogs]

One last thing...how many of those 245 logs on that day they stamped are still dry. I venture to say prolly not many.

I think its funny when people have the chance to talk to someone face to face and they don't, then they go on a forum and blast the people without any problems. Now you're questioning if they even closed the containers correctly .

[Luckless]

Well if I find a situation to be dangerous I'm sure to mention it in my log. Maybe in nice big letters, something like: I ALMOST WITNESSED AN ACCIDENT AT THIS CACHE WHEN A CACHER PARKED HIS CAR ON THE BRIDGE AND A TRUCK CAME AROUND THE BLIND CURVE! PLEASE DON'T PARK ON THE BRIDGE WHEN HUNTING THIS CACHE!

[+StarBrand]

Well if I find a situation to be dangerous I'm sure to mention it in my log. Maybe in nice big letters, something like: I ALMOST WITNESSED AN ACCIDENT AT THIS CACHE WHEN A CACHER PARKED HIS CAR ON THE BRIDGE AND A TRUCK CAME AROUND THE BLIND CURVE! PLEASE DON'T PARK ON THE BRIDGE WHEN HUNTING THIS CACHE!

That would only serve to prove to some that it is indeed feasible to park on the bridge and grab the cache quickly.

[+mike-ski]

One last thing...how many of those 245 logs on that day they stamped are still dry. I venture to say prolly not many.

I think its funny when people have the chance to talk to someone face to face and they don't, then they go on a forum and blast the people without any problems. Now you're questioning if they even closed the containers correctly .

 

Actually I PM'd the guy.

 

What I am saying...it was raining so hard that unless you brought it back to the car there is no way anyone would of kept the log dry.

 

Honest here...I'm just saying that this wasn't smart...that's all. I do think you have to consider the cache owner and take some responsibility for caring for the log if at all possible. And it's not to far to think that if you are doing 245 caches a day to think it may not be happening.

[+StarBrand]

One last thing...how many of those 245 logs on that day they stamped are still dry. I venture to say prolly not many.

I think its funny when people have the chance to talk to someone face to face and they don't, then they go on a forum and blast the people without any problems. Now you're questioning if they even closed the containers correctly .

 

Actually I PM'd the guy.

 

What I am saying...it was raining so hard that unless you brought it back to the car there is no way anyone would of kept the log dry.

 

Honest here...I'm just saying that this wasn't smart...that's all. I do think you have to consider the cache owner and take some responsibility for caring for the log if at all possible. And it's not to far to think that if you are doing 245 caches a day to think it may not be happening.

See my PM on how this "works".

[+the4dirtydogs]

One last thing...how many of those 245 logs on that day they stamped are still dry. I venture to say prolly not many.

I think its funny when people have the chance to talk to someone face to face and they don't, then they go on a forum and blast the people without any problems. Now you're questioning if they even closed the containers correctly .

 

Actually I PM'd the guy.

 

What I am saying...it was raining so hard that unless you brought it back to the car there is no way anyone would of kept the log dry.

 

Honest here...I'm just saying that this wasn't smart...that's all. I do think you have to consider the cache owner and take some responsibility for caring for the log if at all possible. And it's not to far to think that if you are doing 245 caches a day to think it may not be happening.

I think maybe you should have contacted him while he was in the wrong or maybe just emailed him instead of calling him/her out like you did in this forum. Just real tacky in my eyes. And for the wet logs you're just assuming things again.

[+mike-ski]

Everyone's point well taken....

 

Let's all stay safe...

 

I'm OUT!

[+dprovan]

It doesn't help that the short description of this cache specifically says, "All are park and grabs and should be easy finds." Perhaps, "parking nearby, careful crossing the road" would have been a better way to discourage anyone from thinking it was reasonable to park right at the posted coordinates.

[Andronicus]

Well I certainly wouldn't want to die finding a lame micro like that. However, I love finding a cache at the end of a challanging mountain scramble. There is substatial risk in that. I could die, and that is a risk I take. But a calculated one, and so much more worth the risk than a lame micro on a bridge.

 

By the way, you call that a hill? Around here that would be called a flat spot.

[+tigervhaga]

I haven't gotten past the 1184 in one day! How is that possible?

Click on

, and watch a YouTube video of geocachers finding three power trail caches in less than three minutes.

 

That doesn't look like any fun to me.

[4wheelin_fool]

The fellow obviously has geo-OCD. He probably should see a therapist, and possibly get some meds. There is Anafranil, Prozac, Luvox, Prozac, Paxil, Celexia, and many other meds available.

[+OZ2CPU]

>That doesn't look like any fun to me.

 

cool, so you can leave that kind of fun, to peole who actually think it is fun ok ?

even if you cant understand it, dont mean it cant be cool for others,

be open minded and respect the kind of fun others have, with whatever it is they do.

 

risk and danger is a part of many activity sports or hobbies, call it what you like,

I choose to read this thread as a think a little more, walk a bit more,

drive safe, park safe, and geocaching will be so much cooler even for people who dont know what it is we do,

and dont understand it, we do not want to give them a good reason to hate us.

[+tigervhaga]

>That doesn't look like any fun to me.

 

cool, so you can leave that kind of fun, to peole who actually think it is fun ok ?

even if you cant understand it, dont mean it cant be cool for others,

be open minded and respect the kind of fun others have, with whatever it is they do.

 

risk and danger is a part of many activity sports or hobbies, call it what you like,

I choose to read this thread as a think a little more, walk a bit more,

drive safe, park safe, and geocaching will be so much cooler even for people who dont know what it is we do,

and dont understand it, we do not want to give them a good reason to hate us.

 

 

Sorry if my response seemed short - and our first post to boot!

 

My girlfriend and I got into GC because we enjoy walking in the woods and exploring anyway. We happened upon a guy on a trail one day who was looking for one and got us into the idea. We're pretty hooked now in a short amount of time. If only 'real life' and 'work' didn't get in the way...

 

Anyway, obviously why people GC is a decision each person makes for themselves. My girlfriend wants to run around to every one in the area, including the ones next to the road. I hate that. I want to wander around in the woods.

 

Again- sorry if my response seemed short. I don't understand the allure to it but I don't want to discourage anyone who enjoys it!

[+Totem Clan]

 

Sorry if my response seemed short - and our first post to boot!

 

My girlfriend and I got into GC because we enjoy walking in the woods and exploring anyway. We happened upon a guy on a trail one day who was looking for one and got us into the idea. We're pretty hooked now in a short amount of time. If only 'real life' and 'work' didn't get in the way...

 

Anyway, obviously why people GC is a decision each person makes for themselves. My girlfriend wants to run around to every one in the area, including the ones next to the road. I hate that. I want to wander around in the woods.

 

Again- sorry if my response seemed short. I don't understand the allure to it but I don't want to discourage anyone who enjoys it!

Don't worry about it. Some folks just feel the need to try to bring down those that make them question it the way they cache is not the way everyone does.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Totem Clan

[+TeamTwoStar]

I read a news article about a geocacher that died because he was looking at his GPS or something and tripped oversomething and fell down a big drop.

 

It is nice to consider safety when placing your cache, we do, ..but at the same time, common sense on the cacher's part goes a long way, and we all play at our own risk..

 

 

I think part of the charm of geocaching is that it is largely user regulated, aside from some basic guidelines...and I like that. The more you try to control it and add more and more rules over someones lack of judgement or isolated incident...the more the creativity is stifled.