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What Do you do.


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Lets say you go out to try to get a FTF and when you get to the GC area there are other people looking for that cache also. If someone else finds the cache do you log as a co-FTF or would you count it as a FTF on your stats?

There is no official FTF.

 

Everyone has a different view of FTF.

 

The fact your are questioning whether it is a FTF or not? Don't log it. If you question it, you have your doubts. Go with your doubts, they are your stats, nobody else cares about them.

 

Personally? I'd count it as FTF.

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Depends.....

 

If the cachers are not operating as a group. NO. First-Finders are the keepers.

 

If the cachers are operating as a group. Likely. It still depends on the situation and the group(s).

 

In that there is no official sanctioning of FTF, there are many differing opinions on what is/is not an FTF. No referee, either!

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Lets say you go out to try to get a FTF and when you get to the GC area there are other people looking for that cache also. If someone else finds the cache do you log as a co-FTF or would you count it as a FTF on your stats?

There is no official FTF.

 

Everyone has a different view of FTF.

 

The fact your are questioning whether it is a FTF or not? Don't log it. If you question it, you have your doubts. Go with your doubts, they are your stats, nobody else cares about them.

 

Personally? I'd count it as FTF.

 

I know there is no official FTF and I am not questioning if it is a FTF. I know how I log it. I just would like to know how others log the FTF's. There is not right or wrong way.

Edited by GeoCrickets
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I do not like to make the FTF a deadly competition. I happily am willing to share with everyone at GZ. Its fun to find it first but if there is only room for one person at a telephone pole, no point using elbows to see who gets there first. Sometimes the favor is not returned by others, but again, in those cases, one can just put it in their bookmark FTF list or not, up to them.

 

So, for me, I happily share and will log it as Co-FTF, whether 2 people or 10.

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What we do is if the one who finds it first could offer co FTF to others, but I wouldn't ask. Bad manners. If they don't then just take the STF, TTF etc.

When I'm FTF I always offer it to the others, then it's their decision if they want to take the coFTF with me.

Edited by jellis
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I'll log mine as FTF only if I actually find it first, but I'm perfectly fine with others claiming co-FTF . The mini-event after the find is always the best part anyway.

 

I've never offered though, hope they were not waiting for me to offer first. jellis, in the highly unlikely event that we meet at a FTF attempt, and in the even more highly unlikely event that I find it first :) feel free to claim co-FTF if I forget to offer.

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do you log as a co-FTF or would you count it as a FTF on your stats

 

I never mention FTF in my online log under any circumstances.

 

I will mention NOT FTF if I find that I'm logging online before the first finder has logged.

 

I do keep a list of caches where I was FTF, and have never been in the circumstances you describe. I don't cache in urban areas much, so haven't been part of any spontaneous mini-events around a new cache. Pity, sounds like fun.

 

I've either been alone, or caching with someone from the get-go. If I was with another person, and they found the cache, I'll generally put it in my personal FTF list, but not always. Something of a case by case basis.

 

For example, caching with a friend, they found a cache along the trail, about 135 feet from GZ. They just happened to notice it.

I didn't put that one in my FTF stats, as I'd just walked on by - and would have DNF'ed at the coords.

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I think that we have a consensus. FTF is a game that a few chose to play. Some make it a friendly game, some make it a cut-throat game, and many don't bother playing at all. You make up your own rules.

 

Since you've been caching since 2001, I suspect there is a back-story here. That wasn't just an idle question, was it?

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I'll log mine as FTF only if I actually find it first, but I'm perfectly fine with others claiming co-FTF . The mini-event after the find is always the best part anyway.

 

I've never offered though, hope they were not waiting for me to offer first. jellis, in the highly unlikely event that we meet at a FTF attempt, and in the even more highly unlikely event that I find it first :) feel free to claim co-FTF if I forget to offer.

Thank you. I wish I can get to some events but I am stuck for awhile. Can't drive for another 2 1/2 months. But I will be going to mine in WA. Just wish I can even cache. Can you spell cabin fever? Grrrrr.

Edited by jellis
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do you log as a co-FTF or would you count it as a FTF on your stats

 

I never mention FTF in my online log under any circumstances.

Something like "we were all looking and [name] found it!" If [name] wants to assign FTFness, I'll leave it up to him. If I found it, "We were all looking, and thanks to everyone ruling out vast areas, I finally found it!"

 

The OP seems to be asking how you categorize FTF in your private notes, in which case, if you were part of the first group to find it, that's what happened, regardless of FTF importance. And somebody will find it first among that group, critical detail or not.

 

I will mention NOT FTF if I find that I'm logging online before the first finder has logged.

For times when the FTF hasn't yet logged, I've learned to never even use the word "first" in any context, and to double-check the text so there's no misunderstanding. I don't need the grief.

 

If I'm the only person at the cache, I'll log what time I found it. That works in case the FTF signed in a weird spot or if I didn't see the signature. The CO can figure out who found it first, based on the info. Some cachers are extra competitive, so if you're going to events that might include them and their friends, keep any possibly contentious "Stat" a secret.

Edited by kunarion
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Depends.....

 

If the cachers are not operating as a group. NO. First-Finders are the keepers.

 

If the cachers are operating as a group. Likely. It still depends on the situation and the group(s).

 

In that there is no official sanctioning of FTF, there are many differing opinions on what is/is not an FTF. No referee, either!

Some people consider the logging process as part of the finding process so if you get your cell phone out and log the cache online while they are writing in the paper cache log you can snipe the online FTF out from under them. :ph34r:

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Some people consider the logging process as part of the finding process so if you get your cell phone out and log the cache online while they are writing in the paper cache log you can snipe the online FTF out from under them. :ph34r:

You could get in serious trouble with the locals for incorrectly claiming FTF, incorrectly assigning it to somebody, NOT granting FTF to the guy who you'd better say got it, or even by NOT being specific. Remember that "cachers know where to hide a body, in tiny pieces in hundreds of Micros". :blink:

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Lets say you go out to try to get a FTF and when you get to the GC area there are other people looking for that cache also. If someone else finds the cache do you log as a co-FTF or would you count it as a FTF on your stats?

 

What is FTF? :ph34r:

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IMO the first to sign the log would be the "winner".

I can just see it in my mind, 5 people all standing around a nano log, waiting for someone to shout "go" and they all sign at the same time. I hope someone will video this and post it on youtube...

Yeah! Someone gets shoved to the ground, someone gets whomped over the head with a hiking stick, one guy has two people in a head lock, hair's being pulled, and arms are bitten. It's a stand-off til someone removes a shoe and signs using their toes! :P

Edited by kunarion
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IMHO FTF stands for first to find, not first group, I keep track of my FTFs and never claim them if I wasn't the one who found the cache first. A few weeks ago I showed up at a new cache and couldn't find it, about 15 minutes later another cacher showed up blindly reached somewhere and knocked the cache into my hands, he got the FTF.

 

The answers to the OPs questions are no & no.

Edited by Roman!
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You could get in serious trouble with the locals for incorrectly claiming FTF, incorrectly assigning it to somebody, NOT granting FTF to the guy who you'd better say got it, or even by NOT being specific.

I believe in these cases it is up to the CO to settle the dispute since it is his cache.

 

Remember that "cachers know where to hide a body, in tiny pieces in hundreds of Micros". :blink:

So that's what that sludge is in the bottom of some caches. I always assume it was the remnants of old water damaged and moldy logs.

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If I'm the 100th cacher to sign and log a cache and I want to claim FTF what's to stop me? :rolleyes:

 

It's an invented game within a hobby where there is no way to keep score. Do what you want with the FTF.

The cache owner could stop you. I'd delete your log. I only allow the eleventy-first finder to claim FTF on my caches. 'cuz that's how we do it in the Shire. :P

Edited by Glenn
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I really like being FTF, and as a fairly new cacher, I am willing to head out and FTF quickly. My son and I have FTF'd a few caches locally within minutes of seeing them published but if we showed up and someone else was there we'd never claim FTF. FTF to me means first person to sign the log, not first person to see the cache or first person to log it on the site as a found.

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Depends upon the cache.

 

There's an FTF hound nearby and if I (as I did during my Christmas break) beat him to a cache for first find, I'll make a bid production out of it in the log - how it was blank and I suffered complete disorientation and confusion as there appeared no guidance on how to signe the log (name or date first? horizontally or vertically?) and in a fit of panic improvised and escaped the conundrum.

 

If I'm first on a really cool cache I'll claim it in my log.

 

If I see nothing special about it I'll just log it like any other.

 

I generally don't get caught up in being first to find. Finding it is what matters most.

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I think it depends on the local culture, but everytime I've run into that situation, everyone treats it as a shared FTF. I typically note in my log who actually found it, but otherwise I don't consider it very important. Around here, group searches are always team events, not invididual competions.

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Pretty sure FTF means 'first to find'. Second to find is not first to find.

Cold winter day in Westfall, Pa. New cache. No finds. Met Cerberus1! We spent a fair while searching. Neither of us leaving the other to keep searching! He found it. He gets FTF! I was only second. Nope. I'm not claiming co-FTF. He found it. First is 1st. Not 2nd or 3rd, or eleventy-eleventh. First is first. Anyone else is not first.

My caching partner has one FTF. Another snowy day, with some rock climb. Searched a few minutes. Skully & Muldur &c shows up. Helmut was a great guy! (We all miss him.) He held back and watched while we searched. Andy Bear found it. It's his FTF. (We don't go after FTFs anymore.)

First to Find is FTF. Anyone else is not.

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Since I do enjoy chasing I have my little system for qualification. If I find it I claim an FTF. If someone was within ear shot of me finding it then I offer the shared FTF. If someone else finds it then I won't claim an FTF unless they offer to share. I find that when some people see me at GZ they want to "beat me" to the find, so I wouldn't deprive them of it. It is a funny game, I just try to ruffle as few feathers as possible and still have fun with the competitive side.

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If I find it first, I will include the quote "FTF Yah!" in my log file. Thatway, MyGeocachingStats will regester it as a FTF. If I don't find it first, I may comment that I was there when it was found, but I don't claim FTF. I even declined to claim FTF when my 9 year old daughter found the cache first. She found it first, so she was...FIRST to find.

 

I however do not care if other with me were to claim co-FTF. This has not happend to me. The only time I found a cache first with a cacher I didn't know, he did not claim a co-FTF. I wouldn't have cared if he did. We all play by our own rules when there is not one defied by Groundspeak. :mmraspberry:

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I think that we have a consensus. FTF is a game that a few chose to play. Some make it a friendly game, some make it a cut-throat game, and many don't bother playing at all. You make up your own rules.

 

Since you've been caching since 2001, I suspect there is a back-story here. That wasn't just an idle question, was it?

 

I just want to see what others do. I don't go after the FTF. I don't have a smart a** phone so I don't get a text when a new one is published. I my self will not claim a FTF unless I was the one to find it. Others will if they are in a group and that is ok.

 

What is funny is a few times I have been at events and everyone's phone will start to go off and then most of the people that were at the event run off to get that find. I guess if you are the one hosting a event and you want it to end at a pacific time you could just have it published at that time.

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Personally, I don't claim it unless I am the first to lay hands on it -- even if I am with a group of others who happen to be looking at the same time. I know a lot of people do claim co-FTFs, but I just choose not too. There is no right or wrong answer - everybody plays the game the way they want to play it. It is more satisfying for me to recognize the few where I am able to make it out and find a new cache before anyone else.

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Some people consider the logging process as part of the finding process so if you get your cell phone out and log the cache online while they are writing in the paper cache log you can snipe the online FTF out from under them. :ph34r:

You could get in serious trouble with the locals for incorrectly claiming FTF, incorrectly assigning it to somebody, NOT granting FTF to the guy who you'd better say got it, or even by NOT being specific. Remember that "cachers know where to hide a body, in tiny pieces in hundreds of Micros". :blink:

 

How does one grant or assign a FTF?

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Some people consider the logging process as part of the finding process so if you get your cell phone out and log the cache online while they are writing in the paper cache log you can snipe the online FTF out from under them. :ph34r:

You could get in serious trouble with the locals for incorrectly claiming FTF, incorrectly assigning it to somebody, NOT granting FTF to the guy who you'd better say got it, or even by NOT being specific. Remember that "cachers know where to hide a body, in tiny pieces in hundreds of Micros". :blink:

 

How does one grant or assign a FTF?

 

US CIRCUIT COURT EASTERN WEST VIRGINIA

JUDGE LEON V. CRUNDLE

12 MARCH, 2011

BRIANSNAT (GEOCACHER) VS. DOG&PONY (GEOCACHER)

PLAINTIFF - BRIANSNAT

DEFENDENT - DOG&PONY

 

WHEREAS BRIANSNAT CLAIMS FIRST TO FIND (FTF) ON GEOCACHE GC3FF70 YET ANOTHER SPLENDID LPC BY VIRTUE OF PLACING HANDS ON THE CACHE FIRST BUT SIGNED BELOW THE DESIGNATED 'FTF:' LINE.

 

WHEREAS DOG&PONY WAS IN THE PARKING LOT AND CLAIMS TO HAVE SPOTTED THE CORRECT LAMP POST FIRST, THUS UPON CLAIMING THE GEOCACHE FROM THE HANDS OF BRIANSNAT AND SIGNING UPON THE 'FTF:' LINE.

 

WHEREAS A FRACAS THUS ENSUED AND HARSH WORDS EXCHANGED AND FEELINGS HURT

 

 

 

AFTER REVIEW OF PERSONAL TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE BY THIS COURT IT IS THE FINDING OF THIS COURT THAT THE 'FTF' FIRST TO FIND DOES INDEED BELONG TO THE PLAINTIFF AND THE DEFENDENT IS REQUIRED TO RELINQUISH ALL CLAIM TO FIRST TO FIND (FTF) AND REDACT THE LOG ENTRY CLAIMANT TO. FURTHER IT IS THE VIEW OF THIS COURT THAT YOU BOTH NEED TO GET A LIFE AND STOP BEHAVING LIKE CHILDREN. FIRST TO FIND, LAST TO FIND, SECOND TO FIND - IT SHOULD BE ENOUGH TO FIND THE CACHE AND BE HAPPY.

 

LEON V. CRUNDLE

12 MARCH 2012

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Personally, I don't claim it unless I am the first to lay hands on it -- even if I am with a group of others who happen to be looking at the same time.

Well, that's the problem, isn't it? If someone else saw it first, I think it makes much more sense to say they found it first even though you were the first to lay hands on it, and hence, by your criteria, you should get FTF.

 

I know a lot of people do claim co-FTFs, but I just choose not too. There is no right or wrong answer - everybody plays the game the way they want to play it. It is more satisfying for me to recognize the few where I am able to make it out and find a new cache before anyone else.
Yes, this is, of course, the bottom line: we can each do whatever we want, even ignore the FTF idea altogether. So my choice is to encourage everyone on the team to claim FTF, since that maximizes the number of FTFs in the world for people to claim. That seems like more fun than making FTFs something precious only one individual in the team can have.
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I'll log mine as FTF only if I actually find it first, but I'm perfectly fine with others claiming co-FTF . The mini-event after the find is always the best part anyway.

 

I've never offered though, hope they were not waiting for me to offer first. jellis, in the highly unlikely event that we meet at a FTF attempt, and in the even more highly unlikely event that I find it first :) feel free to claim co-FTF if I forget to offer.

Thank you. I wish I can get to some events but I am stuck for awhile. Can't drive for another 2 1/2 months. But I will be going to mine in WA. Just wish I can even cache. Can you spell cabin fever? Grrrrr.

 

Jellis what's the deal, are you under HOUSE ARREST or something.

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I'll log mine as FTF only if I actually find it first, but I'm perfectly fine with others claiming co-FTF . The mini-event after the find is always the best part anyway.

 

I've never offered though, hope they were not waiting for me to offer first. jellis, in the highly unlikely event that we meet at a FTF attempt, and in the even more highly unlikely event that I find it first :) feel free to claim co-FTF if I forget to offer.

Thank you. I wish I can get to some events but I am stuck for awhile. Can't drive for another 2 1/2 months. But I will be going to mine in WA. Just wish I can even cache. Can you spell cabin fever? Grrrrr.

 

Jellis what's the deal, are you under HOUSE ARREST or something.

 

She's convalescing. Probably strained herself going for an FTF. :lol:

 

Get well soon, Jellis! B)

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We hosted a Flash Mob event on Leap Day at our local library after closing hours. It was supposed to be 15 minutes long. Five minutes into the mob, a cache 75 feet away posted. We had 4 dozen people at the flash mob. There were 4 dozen FTF claims on the other cache that posted. Everyone had fun. That's what really counts.

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What's "Southern Eastern West"?

 

Tiverton is a small street whose location was always fun to describe -- it is the first east of West running south off First.

 

Meanwhile, for me attempting FTF has been the best and most productive way to meet other local cachers (strangely there are few events on transit around here).

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I'll log mine as FTF only if I actually find it first, but I'm perfectly fine with others claiming co-FTF . The mini-event after the find is always the best part anyway.

 

I've never offered though, hope they were not waiting for me to offer first. jellis, in the highly unlikely event that we meet at a FTF attempt, and in the even more highly unlikely event that I find it first :) feel free to claim co-FTF if I forget to offer.

I hope that I've never been considered rude in a situation like this. I don't really pay attention to the FTF game, so it would never occur to me to offer co FTF.

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I used to say that I never use the three initials when signing a blank new log. It is just a matter of time, geography, or personal circumstances. But when compiling a list for a challenge I noticed a log from 2004 that used it in an offhand way. So now I can say I almost never use them.

Edited by geodarts
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If I am caching with someone - i.e., we meet up ahead of time and head to GZ together - I will generally co-FTF any finds we make as a team.

 

If I see other folks at GZ, I will generally not co-FTF something if I didn't find it first. If I do find it first I don't mind if other people claim a co-FTF on it. Doesn't make my froot loops taste any worse the next morning.

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