Placing a cache - Landownership

[+andytheanimal]

(Reposting from global How do I forum)

 

I'm looking to start to place some caches and had a few queries around the rules on landownership and 'how-to' for the UK that I hope people could clarify and help with.

 

I believe rules state that you need landowner permission to place a cache.

 

1. Is this correct in all instances?

2. If so, then for a cache which I wish to place on a public footpath then is this still required?

3. How can you go about finding out who the landowner is apart from local knowledge?

4. Is there a draft template/email to issue to landowners requesting a cache placement?

 

Apologies if these are fairly standard queries but I cannot find explicit answers based on UK caches. Thanks in advance!

[+keehotee]

 

I believe rules state that you need landowner permission to place a cache.

 

1. Is this correct in all instances?

2. If so, then for a cache which I wish to place on a public footpath then is this still required?

3. How can you go about finding out who the landowner is apart from local knowledge?

4. Is there a draft template/email to issue to landowners requesting a cache placement?

 

Apologies if these are fairly standard queries but I cannot find explicit answers based on UK caches. Thanks in advance!

 

1. Yes. Landowner permission should be sought for every cache hide. However, the reviewers will only ask for proof of this in specific circumstances ie SSSI's etc. Whether you get permission or not in other circumstances is down to you.

 

2. Yes. You have a right to "pass and repass" along a public footpath, and nothing else. They are invariably across private property, so the same rules will apply.

 

3. Apart from local knowledge - not easy. Look around for signage, ask at local properties. If in doubt, and you personally feel better with permission, pass on areas where you cannot find the info and choose a different spot

 

4. Not sure if there is a draft available. However the GAGB have a section on landowner contact here

 

Good luck

Edited March 15, 2012 by keehotee

[+Cushie Butterfield]

Please don't place caches on private property without permission (then lie about it on your submission) and just assume that it will be alright because the landowner is not likely to find out about it. We have several public footpaths and bridle paths across our property, they are a right of way only, the land you walk upon still belongs to the landowner.

 

It's bad enough having to put up with trespassers who think it's OK to drive up the bridle path and park on private property while they go for a walk, they think it's OK to take a shortcut across fields with livestock (with loose dogs killing free ranging hens or chasing a two day old foal) rather than stick to the rights of way and walk the long way round without having the unwanted extra foot traffic from geocachers, some of whom are as irresponsible.

 

We have some lovely people out walking here, we always help them if they are lost and have let them use the loo and even given a lift to five lost walkers who were five miles off route so we aren't anti public but it would be lovely if there was some kind invisible force that kept them on the rights of way and off our land.

[+MBFace]

It's also worth looking here for advice on permission and lots more besides

[+Happy Humphrey]

Please don't place caches on private property without permission (then lie about it on your submission) and just assume that it will be alright because the landowner is not likely to find out about it. We have several public footpaths and bridle paths across our property, they are a right of way only, the land you walk upon still belongs to the landowner.

 

It's bad enough having to put up with trespassers who think it's OK to drive up the bridle path and park on private property while they go for a walk, they think it's OK to take a shortcut across fields with livestock (with loose dogs killing free ranging hens or chasing a two day old foal) rather than stick to the rights of way and walk the long way round without having the unwanted extra foot traffic from geocachers, some of whom are as irresponsible.

 

We have some lovely people out walking here, we always help them if they are lost and have let them use the loo and even given a lift to five lost walkers who were five miles off route so we aren't anti public but it would be lovely if there was some kind invisible force that kept them on the rights of way and off our land.

That's a great post and it's nice to hear from someone who has experience of both sides of the equation.

I have plenty of experience of using public footpaths (and no dog!) and I can see your gripe with those who deliberately cut across fields or park where they have no right to. But I have to balance that with the assertion that it's pretty rare in comparison to those who simply follow the footpaths.

 

I've walked across farmers' fields away from the path from time to time, and seemingly taken a short cut (which is normally a "long cut"!). So I'm guilty too. The reason is that some landowners seem to think that marking a footpath and making it easy to follow is too much of a chore to be bothered with, and then get angry with the frustrated ramblers who have to spend ages working out where they are supposed to go (and finally make a hazardous crossing of a barbed wire fence to regain the path). As a long-distance walker I've done it plenty of times (even with GPS and map to help). I'm sure you're not one of those landowners, but the "invisible force" is there; in the form of a well-marked path with obvious stiles.

 

Back to the topic, the fact that a cache is to be placed at the side of a public footpath doesn't mean that permission isn't necessary; but if common sense is being used I don't see any landowner having the slightest grounds for objection. Having a few extra footpath users every month will just assist in maintaining the path, and a well-placed cache will be no problem at all.

[+Cushie Butterfield]

I have thought about placing a nice puzzle multi cache up here, I have some excellent sneaky bits all ready and I thought it would be good to spot geocachers nearby and offer them a cup of tea and have a chat but they are not all nice people and we can't pick and choose who would come looking.

We have a bridle path which is along the track to our house, we have had to lock the gate at the bottom (half a mile away) because we get all sorts of people coming along, from people just being nosey to others looking to see what they can steal (why do they always assume there is scrap metal along a track). We get walkers who find it easier to park at the top of the hill rather than walk the half mile extra (it is steep!) They get quite angry when we go out and lock the gate behind us and they are stuck inside until we get back!

When the gate is locked we get cars parked on the other side which leaves enough room for our cars but not for the harvester or the sheep truck and tractors. One now and again is annoying, we just don't want to do anything to encourage more.

 

We do have all of the ROWs marked with the council signs, we make sure they are clear and make sure our own dogs aren't running loose on our land unsupervised and we do make the effort to be friendly because it's embarrassing for some people when they find they need to walk within a few yards of our family out having a barbecue and they have every right to be there, it was a ROW long before we moved here.

 

It has made me much more aware of other people's property when we go caching, in the past, before we moved here, I wouldn't have thought much about sticking to the path but now I can see how annoying it can be to somebody else if I don't.

[+andytheanimal]

All fair points. Me personally, I would place literally no more than 2 feet from the footpath. I appreciate people don't want people wondering here there and everywhere (being a farmer's son I know this better than most!), but 2 feet from a footpath?! With many footpaths running few fields, the only indicator where the footpath legally sits is merely where others have flattened the ground.

 

I think I've opened a can of worms!

[+keehotee]

Me personally, I would place literally no more than 2 feet from the footpath.

 

It probably wouldn't make any difference from a permission point of view whether it's on the path, 2 feet from it, or 200 feet from it....the landowner may still have the same concerns, if any?

[+The Growler]

All UK geocaches completely legal and placed within the rules? OK, now watch 95% of icons disappear from the map. It's not an opinion but rather an observation. That's all.

[+The Hornet]

I have thought about placing a nice puzzle multi cache up here, I have some excellent sneaky bits all ready and I thought it would be good to spot geocachers nearby and offer them a cup of tea and have a chat but they are not all nice people and we can't pick and choose who would come looking.

I set a cache a few years ago in my garden hedge which was specifically designed to get people to pop in for a cuppa and a chat. Even though it has been archived on GC.COM I still get the occasional visitor from another listing. My experience had been 100% positive and I have met nothing but very nice people so I would encourage you to give the idea a try, I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the people you will meet.

[+Amberel]

I set a cache a few years ago in my garden hedge which was specifically designed to get people to pop in for a cuppa and a chat. Even though it has been archived on GC.COM I still get the occasional visitor from another listing. My experience had been 100% positive and I have met nothing but very nice people so I would encourage you to give the idea a try, I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the people you will meet.

I can confirm the welcome and the cup of tea . And a bit more - I arrived wetter than I've ever been before despite riding a motorbike daily for nearly 50 years. I had ridden from Surrey to the Welsh borders in the most torrential rain you can imagine, which stopped only a very short time before I arrived. I was as damp inside my wet weather gear as I was outside, and all my clothes were stained and filthy.

 

Luckily I had a weekend bag so I was able to change into dry clothes and hang my gear all over the place to dry out while we had a cup of tea and a chat, and I left for a few day's caching in the area feeling human again .

 

And it's a nice cache (in the hedge) .

 

Thanks again Peter, even though it was a couple of years ago, it would have been a very uncomfortable day's caching without being able to change and dry out.

 

Rgds, Andy

[+Happy Humphrey]

I have thought about placing a nice puzzle multi cache up here, I have some excellent sneaky bits all ready and I thought it would be good to spot geocachers nearby and offer them a cup of tea and have a chat but they are not all nice people and we can't pick and choose who would come looking.

I set a cache a few years ago in my garden hedge which was specifically designed to get people to pop in for a cuppa and a chat. Even though it has been archived on GC.COM I still get the occasional visitor from another listing. My experience had been 100% positive and I have met nothing but very nice people so I would encourage you to give the idea a try, I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the people you will meet.

I wondered about that comment too. All the geocachers I've come across over the years have been very nice people; even people who are argumentative on a forum (which may well include me!) are as nice as you can hope for. I'm sure that there is the odd exception (geocoin thieves comes to mind) but I can't see unpleasant criminal types going out to seek a pleasant countryside cache or two.

 

All UK geocaches completely legal and placed within the rules? OK, now watch 95% of icons disappear from the map. It's not an opinion but rather an observation. That's all.

IANAL, but I think that if all strictly illegal caches were removed overnight you'd hardly see any difference.

[+Pharisee]

I have thought about placing a nice puzzle multi cache up here, I have some excellent sneaky bits all ready and I thought it would be good to spot geocachers nearby and offer them a cup of tea and have a chat but they are not all nice people and we can't pick and choose who would come looking.

I set a cache a few years ago in my garden hedge which was specifically designed to get people to pop in for a cuppa and a chat. Even though it has been archived on GC.COM I still get the occasional visitor from another listing. My experience had been 100% positive and I have met nothing but very nice people so I would encourage you to give the idea a try, I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the people you will meet.

 

Way back in 2004, The Grockles (Omally, Hi-Tek, Merman and me) went on a mission to find this cache. Find it we did and as suggested on the cache page, we worked out the location of the owners abode and subsequently knocked on his door. The young(ish) guy that opened it looked somewhat concerned to find four camo clad blokes wearing funny hats and rucksacks on his doorstep. I asked him if the name "Doom Slayer" meant anything to him and he started to laugh.... "You've found my cache?" he asked. Whilst we weren't the first to find his cache, we were the first to actually go and tell him about it. We didn't get a cuppa as he and his lady were about to go out but we'd definitely made his day! (Read log here)

[+Cushie Butterfield]

I wondered about that comment too. All the geocachers I've come across over the years have been very nice people;

 

I have also met some fantastic people since I started caching, friendly and kind. I know they are in the majority but it only takes one person to spoil the fun.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Cushie Butterfield

[+FOX 661L]

Has anyone actually got permission to put caches in Armco safety barriers on the side of roads or magnetically attached to highways department road signs ?

[dodgydaved]

I have thought about placing a nice puzzle multi cache up here, I have some excellent sneaky bits all ready and I thought it would be good to spot geocachers nearby and offer them a cup of tea and have a chat but they are not all nice people and we can't pick and choose who would come looking.

I set a cache a few years ago in my garden hedge which was specifically designed to get people to pop in for a cuppa and a chat. Even though it has been archived on GC.COM I still get the occasional visitor from another listing. My experience had been 100% positive and I have met nothing but very nice people so I would encourage you to give the idea a try, I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the people you will meet.

 

The Honorouble Member for Dilwyn Sollers has also been one of the many visitors to my garden cache and had a cuppa on my sofa, together wirh many oild friends, and some new ones including sharing a couple of bottles of wine with a group of German cachers at 3:00 am :blink: .

 

I am sure there are exceptions but I also have yet to meet an unpleasant cacher! :)

[+keehotee]

Has anyone actually got permission to put caches in Armco safety barriers on the side of roads or magnetically attached to highways department road signs ?

 

Many areas are now covered by local authority blanket agreements - so caches in signs and barriers on urban and minor roads could well have implied permission in these cases.

Major trunk roads and motorways are managed by the Highways Agency - so caches in signs and barriers on these would need permission from them - so I'm doubtful it's there.

 

But although I've found caches in barriers and signs before, I can't honestly remember any of them being on the side of a major road?

Edited March 17, 2012 by keehotee

[+Brentorboxer]

I see the Dartmoor National Park Authority has updated their website to include a page on geocaching, they have a list of guidelines. The first two say:

• Always obtain the landowner’s permission before hiding a cache.

• Please acknowledge that you have obtained the landowner permission when you publish the cache details on geocaching.com or any other geocaching website.

If all caches were removed which didn’t have landowner permission, I doubt if any would be left on Dartmoor.

It seems a lot of caches are put out on the back of the letterboxers agreement, maybe it is about time the geocachers got their own agreement sorted out with the authority.